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On July 12 2013 05:54 FeyFey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 05:37 painkilla wrote:On July 12 2013 05:28 Big J wrote:On July 12 2013 04:50 Lock0n wrote:On July 12 2013 03:00 Big J wrote:On July 12 2013 02:39 Housemd wrote:On July 12 2013 01:53 Big J wrote:On July 12 2013 01:48 lichter wrote:On July 12 2013 01:47 Big J wrote:
Btw, how are group standings decided?
Is it:
1. Match wins
2. set difference
3. set wins
4. direct duel
?
Asking because Liquipedia says First isn't through yet, which would mean it is not like I described and there is some weird tiebreaker way to still prevent him from advancing. Only set wins. If there are ties, they play again. Tiebreakers are Bo1, played after the last day of Ro16. Ah ok, so if First wins one game he goes on, because then in the worst case for him it's 1. First 5-2 2. hyvaa 5-4 3. Rain 4-3 If he loses however 2-0, it can be 1. hyvaa 5-3 2. First 4-2 2. Rain 4-3 or 4-4 and First and Rain play a tiebreaker. Right? No lol. By set wins, its like how many series you won against other people in the group. First is 2-0 at the moment and has hvyaa left. If he loses, he goes 2-1 and hyvaa goes 2-1. Then, if Rain beats Fantasy, it would be Rain 2-1 with Fantasy 0-3. Therefore, Fantasy is eliminated and Hyvaa, Rain, and First play tiebreakers to determine which two advance. Another example: First beats Hyvaa, and Fantasy beats Rain. This means that Fantasy is 1-2, Rain is 1-2, Hyvaa is 1-2, and First is 3-0. First is through to the Round of 8 while Fantasy, Rain, and Hyvaa play tiebreakers to determine who gets the last seed. that's match wins, not set wins what you describe So, there's a potential SKT throw in Fantasy vs Rain, where since Hyvaa vs First is up first, and Hyvaa wins, then both Hyvaa and First will be on 2-1. Rain is on 1-1, Fantasy is 0-2, so if Fantasy wins, both Rain and Fantasy are out regardless. That means Fantasy will have no choice but to throw the last game to give Rain teh win, so Rain is on 2-1 and goes to playoff with a chance of progress. Fantasy may even get ordered by SKT to give the game to his teamate. This is an absurd scenario due to the Round Robin format, and if this happens eyebrows will surely be raised. If he throws his career is over. How do ppl know that he throws if he throws? He doesn't need to try very hard to lose to Rain. Fantasy can only hope First doesn't lose, because his chances to beat Rain are slim anyway. In that case the internet will do what the internet does and there will be hurt fanboys and trolls that will jump on this opportunity (as they already come up before it happens). And OSL will get a few hits too if they really don't use map score in case of tie breakers.
FWIW, Rain said that Fantasy always beat him in practice.
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On July 12 2013 05:31 Schelim wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 05:21 HolyArrow wrote:On July 12 2013 05:13 Zenbrez wrote:On July 12 2013 03:01 SniXSniPe wrote:On July 12 2013 02:12 robson1 wrote:On July 12 2013 02:12 TeeTS wrote:
I find it funny, that people still disregard the abilities of Bomber and Maru. Maru was close to beat Soulkey last season and showed so far a stellar performance in this. Bomber showed amazing play this season. To say both of them have no chance against any player is just plain stupid. this. Bomber always lets his fans down though. He gets us all pumped up and excited, and then he loses >_> Maru vs Supernoa was going to be a close match regardless. I ended up thinking Supernova would pull through, but Maru winning isn't a surprise either. 16 people have to all in the ro32, 8 more in the ro16, only 1 person can win a tournament, etc.. him "always letting his fans down" is no more than the flow of a tournament. Surely you don't expect him to make the finals of everything? Because that would be impractical. Yeah I see what you're saying. However, I think the Bomber curse is more along the lines of him playing far better than anyone expects him to (such as 2-0ing Flash after preparing for the wrong version of HotS TvT), and then later falling far short of the play people expect from him soon after, losing in some unspectacular stomp. It's not about merely losing at some point in a tournaments, it's more about him looking spectacular one match and then playing like crap the next match. Though you could definitely apply that to quite a few other players, I guess Bomber is the most infamous for it. yes exactly this. also Bomber hasn't one a major tournament in sc2 ever and has hardly been to any finals, i would consider that a letdown after continously showing best-player-in-the-world-level play in countless tournaments over the last like 2.5 years.
He won MLG Raleigh, GSL May Code A, and placed second in Red Bull Battlegrounds and LSC. Also top 4 and one of the last non-zergs standing in MLG and IPL5 in WoL's twilight
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On July 12 2013 06:08 painkilla wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 05:54 FeyFey wrote:On July 12 2013 05:37 painkilla wrote:On July 12 2013 05:28 Big J wrote:On July 12 2013 04:50 Lock0n wrote:On July 12 2013 03:00 Big J wrote:On July 12 2013 02:39 Housemd wrote:On July 12 2013 01:53 Big J wrote:On July 12 2013 01:48 lichter wrote:On July 12 2013 01:47 Big J wrote:
Btw, how are group standings decided?
Is it:
1. Match wins
2. set difference
3. set wins
4. direct duel
?
Asking because Liquipedia says First isn't through yet, which would mean it is not like I described and there is some weird tiebreaker way to still prevent him from advancing. Only set wins. If there are ties, they play again. Tiebreakers are Bo1, played after the last day of Ro16. Ah ok, so if First wins one game he goes on, because then in the worst case for him it's 1. First 5-2 2. hyvaa 5-4 3. Rain 4-3 If he loses however 2-0, it can be 1. hyvaa 5-3 2. First 4-2 2. Rain 4-3 or 4-4 and First and Rain play a tiebreaker. Right? No lol. By set wins, its like how many series you won against other people in the group. First is 2-0 at the moment and has hvyaa left. If he loses, he goes 2-1 and hyvaa goes 2-1. Then, if Rain beats Fantasy, it would be Rain 2-1 with Fantasy 0-3. Therefore, Fantasy is eliminated and Hyvaa, Rain, and First play tiebreakers to determine which two advance. Another example: First beats Hyvaa, and Fantasy beats Rain. This means that Fantasy is 1-2, Rain is 1-2, Hyvaa is 1-2, and First is 3-0. First is through to the Round of 8 while Fantasy, Rain, and Hyvaa play tiebreakers to determine who gets the last seed. that's match wins, not set wins what you describe So, there's a potential SKT throw in Fantasy vs Rain, where since Hyvaa vs First is up first, and Hyvaa wins, then both Hyvaa and First will be on 2-1. Rain is on 1-1, Fantasy is 0-2, so if Fantasy wins, both Rain and Fantasy are out regardless. That means Fantasy will have no choice but to throw the last game to give Rain teh win, so Rain is on 2-1 and goes to playoff with a chance of progress. Fantasy may even get ordered by SKT to give the game to his teamate. This is an absurd scenario due to the Round Robin format, and if this happens eyebrows will surely be raised. If he throws his career is over. How do ppl know that he throws if he throws? He doesn't need to try very hard to lose to Rain. Fantasy can only hope First doesn't lose, because his chances to beat Rain are slim anyway. In that case the internet will do what the internet does and there will be hurt fanboys and trolls that will jump on this opportunity (as they already come up before it happens). And OSL will get a few hits too if they really don't use map score in case of tie breakers. FWIW, Rain said that Fantasy always beat him in practice.
Remember how a lot of people thought Fantasy wouldn't beat JangBi? Yeah, that's what's up.
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On July 12 2013 06:21 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 06:08 painkilla wrote:On July 12 2013 05:54 FeyFey wrote:On July 12 2013 05:37 painkilla wrote:On July 12 2013 05:28 Big J wrote:On July 12 2013 04:50 Lock0n wrote:On July 12 2013 03:00 Big J wrote:On July 12 2013 02:39 Housemd wrote:On July 12 2013 01:53 Big J wrote:On July 12 2013 01:48 lichter wrote:
[quote]
Only set wins. If there are ties, they play again. Tiebreakers are Bo1, played after the last day of Ro16. Ah ok, so if First wins one game he goes on, because then in the worst case for him it's 1. First 5-2 2. hyvaa 5-4 3. Rain 4-3 If he loses however 2-0, it can be 1. hyvaa 5-3 2. First 4-2 2. Rain 4-3 or 4-4 and First and Rain play a tiebreaker. Right? No lol. By set wins, its like how many series you won against other people in the group. First is 2-0 at the moment and has hvyaa left. If he loses, he goes 2-1 and hyvaa goes 2-1. Then, if Rain beats Fantasy, it would be Rain 2-1 with Fantasy 0-3. Therefore, Fantasy is eliminated and Hyvaa, Rain, and First play tiebreakers to determine which two advance. Another example: First beats Hyvaa, and Fantasy beats Rain. This means that Fantasy is 1-2, Rain is 1-2, Hyvaa is 1-2, and First is 3-0. First is through to the Round of 8 while Fantasy, Rain, and Hyvaa play tiebreakers to determine who gets the last seed. that's match wins, not set wins what you describe So, there's a potential SKT throw in Fantasy vs Rain, where since Hyvaa vs First is up first, and Hyvaa wins, then both Hyvaa and First will be on 2-1. Rain is on 1-1, Fantasy is 0-2, so if Fantasy wins, both Rain and Fantasy are out regardless. That means Fantasy will have no choice but to throw the last game to give Rain teh win, so Rain is on 2-1 and goes to playoff with a chance of progress. Fantasy may even get ordered by SKT to give the game to his teamate. This is an absurd scenario due to the Round Robin format, and if this happens eyebrows will surely be raised. If he throws his career is over. How do ppl know that he throws if he throws? He doesn't need to try very hard to lose to Rain. Fantasy can only hope First doesn't lose, because his chances to beat Rain are slim anyway. In that case the internet will do what the internet does and there will be hurt fanboys and trolls that will jump on this opportunity (as they already come up before it happens). And OSL will get a few hits too if they really don't use map score in case of tie breakers. FWIW, Rain said that Fantasy always beat him in practice. Remember how a lot of people thought Fantasy wouldn't beat JangBi? Yeah, that's what's up.
Yep Practice is Practice and most of the time someone said they always lose in practice they roll over their opponent afterwards.
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On July 12 2013 06:26 FeyFey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 06:21 StarStruck wrote:On July 12 2013 06:08 painkilla wrote:On July 12 2013 05:54 FeyFey wrote:On July 12 2013 05:37 painkilla wrote:On July 12 2013 05:28 Big J wrote:On July 12 2013 04:50 Lock0n wrote:On July 12 2013 03:00 Big J wrote:On July 12 2013 02:39 Housemd wrote:On July 12 2013 01:53 Big J wrote:
[quote]
Ah ok, so if First wins one game he goes on, because then in the worst case for him it's
1. First 5-2
2. hyvaa 5-4
3. Rain 4-3
If he loses however 2-0, it can be
1. hyvaa 5-3
2. First 4-2
2. Rain 4-3 or 4-4
and First and Rain play a tiebreaker. Right? No lol. By set wins, its like how many series you won against other people in the group. First is 2-0 at the moment and has hvyaa left. If he loses, he goes 2-1 and hyvaa goes 2-1. Then, if Rain beats Fantasy, it would be Rain 2-1 with Fantasy 0-3. Therefore, Fantasy is eliminated and Hyvaa, Rain, and First play tiebreakers to determine which two advance. Another example: First beats Hyvaa, and Fantasy beats Rain. This means that Fantasy is 1-2, Rain is 1-2, Hyvaa is 1-2, and First is 3-0. First is through to the Round of 8 while Fantasy, Rain, and Hyvaa play tiebreakers to determine who gets the last seed. that's match wins, not set wins what you describe So, there's a potential SKT throw in Fantasy vs Rain, where since Hyvaa vs First is up first, and Hyvaa wins, then both Hyvaa and First will be on 2-1. Rain is on 1-1, Fantasy is 0-2, so if Fantasy wins, both Rain and Fantasy are out regardless. That means Fantasy will have no choice but to throw the last game to give Rain teh win, so Rain is on 2-1 and goes to playoff with a chance of progress. Fantasy may even get ordered by SKT to give the game to his teamate. This is an absurd scenario due to the Round Robin format, and if this happens eyebrows will surely be raised. If he throws his career is over. How do ppl know that he throws if he throws? He doesn't need to try very hard to lose to Rain. Fantasy can only hope First doesn't lose, because his chances to beat Rain are slim anyway. In that case the internet will do what the internet does and there will be hurt fanboys and trolls that will jump on this opportunity (as they already come up before it happens). And OSL will get a few hits too if they really don't use map score in case of tie breakers. FWIW, Rain said that Fantasy always beat him in practice. Remember how a lot of people thought Fantasy wouldn't beat JangBi? Yeah, that's what's up. Yep Practice is Practice and most of the time someone said they always lose in practice they roll over their opponent afterwards.
Naniwa vs Jaedong for example.
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On July 12 2013 03:00 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 02:39 Housemd wrote:On July 12 2013 01:53 Big J wrote:On July 12 2013 01:48 lichter wrote:On July 12 2013 01:47 Big J wrote:
Btw, how are group standings decided?
Is it:
1. Match wins
2. set difference
3. set wins
4. direct duel
?
Asking because Liquipedia says First isn't through yet, which would mean it is not like I described and there is some weird tiebreaker way to still prevent him from advancing. Only set wins. If there are ties, they play again. Tiebreakers are Bo1, played after the last day of Ro16. Ah ok, so if First wins one game he goes on, because then in the worst case for him it's 1. First 5-2 2. hyvaa 5-4 3. Rain 4-3 If he loses however 2-0, it can be 1. hyvaa 5-3 2. First 4-2 2. Rain 4-3 or 4-4 and First and Rain play a tiebreaker. Right? No lol. By set wins, its like how many series you won against other people in the group. First is 2-0 at the moment and has hvyaa left. If he loses, he goes 2-1 and hyvaa goes 2-1. Then, if Rain beats Fantasy, it would be Rain 2-1 with Fantasy 0-3. Therefore, Fantasy is eliminated and Hyvaa, Rain, and First play tiebreakers to determine which two advance. Another example: First beats Hyvaa, and Fantasy beats Rain. This means that Fantasy is 1-2, Rain is 1-2, Hyvaa is 1-2, and First is 3-0. First is through to the Round of 8 while Fantasy, Rain, and Hyvaa play tiebreakers to determine who gets the last seed. that's match wins, not set wins what you describe
A set is a match. "Set" of games implying there are multiple. The most unambiguous way to describe single games would be the term "map".
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So if there is a tie, when are the games played? Offline? Does the whole group show up on thursday incase they need to duel it out immediately after the match that decides whether there's a tie or not? Do they extend the ro16 for another week and play them the following tuesday/thursday?
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On July 12 2013 06:29 slowbacontron wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 03:00 Big J wrote:On July 12 2013 02:39 Housemd wrote:On July 12 2013 01:53 Big J wrote:On July 12 2013 01:48 lichter wrote:On July 12 2013 01:47 Big J wrote:
Btw, how are group standings decided?
Is it:
1. Match wins
2. set difference
3. set wins
4. direct duel
?
Asking because Liquipedia says First isn't through yet, which would mean it is not like I described and there is some weird tiebreaker way to still prevent him from advancing. Only set wins. If there are ties, they play again. Tiebreakers are Bo1, played after the last day of Ro16. Ah ok, so if First wins one game he goes on, because then in the worst case for him it's 1. First 5-2 2. hyvaa 5-4 3. Rain 4-3 If he loses however 2-0, it can be 1. hyvaa 5-3 2. First 4-2 2. Rain 4-3 or 4-4 and First and Rain play a tiebreaker. Right? No lol. By set wins, its like how many series you won against other people in the group. First is 2-0 at the moment and has hvyaa left. If he loses, he goes 2-1 and hyvaa goes 2-1. Then, if Rain beats Fantasy, it would be Rain 2-1 with Fantasy 0-3. Therefore, Fantasy is eliminated and Hyvaa, Rain, and First play tiebreakers to determine which two advance. Another example: First beats Hyvaa, and Fantasy beats Rain. This means that Fantasy is 1-2, Rain is 1-2, Hyvaa is 1-2, and First is 3-0. First is through to the Round of 8 while Fantasy, Rain, and Hyvaa play tiebreakers to determine who gets the last seed. that's match wins, not set wins what you describe A set is a match. "Set" of games implying there are multiple. The most unambiguous way to describe single games would be the term "map".
This needed to be said, ever since koreans like SPL started referring to maps as a set people have forgotten that in actual English a set is a group of more than one thing.
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On July 12 2013 06:55 Zenbrez wrote:
So if there is a tie, when are the games played? Offline? Does the whole group show up on thursday incase they need to duel it out immediately after the match that decides whether there's a tie or not? Do they extend the ro16 for another week and play them the following tuesday/thursday?
They're played offline on the last Thursday.
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Sorry I was out the whole time this one guys.
VODs are up on twitch.tv/wcs_osl/videos
Star Haeng Show VODs are also included there. Enjoy!
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On July 12 2013 07:55 Chobra wrote:
Sorry I was out the whole time this one guys.
VODs are up on twitch.tv/wcs_osl/videos
Star Haeng Show VODs are also included there. Enjoy!
chobra. you are awesome :>
it's amazing that OGN is doing the work that the community used to volunteer for in their free time after work and school.
it's even more amazing we have someone who's on the level, and puts in the time and energy to make the show better.
two thumbs up! 
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Looks like Bomber is finally getting his GSL trophy :')
Courtesy of Artosis
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United States97276 Posts
On July 12 2013 08:14 LighT. wrote:
Looks like Bomber is finally getting his GSL trophy :')
Courtesy of Artosis
hyvaa
"Evil wins!"
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On July 12 2013 08:14 LighT. wrote:
Looks like Bomber is finally getting his GSL trophy :')
Courtesy of Artosis
You just succumbed to Bomber's law.
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Not happy with flash losing. I fail to see how a player as good as flash in terms of talent can not dominate or win at this game I think it says something about SC 2 as a game so I will let people read into that what they will. Im sure someone will say flash in game 2 should have done this or that but it still feels too unforgiving if someone gets hard countered.
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United States97276 Posts
Parting has done so poorly vs Zerg in HoTS that it's now rated as his weakest matchup by aligulac
http://imgur.com/pTWByE2
His Korean PvZ: In these games, PartinG is 9–17 (35%) in games and 3–9 (25%) in matches.
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On July 12 2013 07:02 Gorribal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 06:29 slowbacontron wrote:On July 12 2013 03:00 Big J wrote:On July 12 2013 02:39 Housemd wrote:On July 12 2013 01:53 Big J wrote:On July 12 2013 01:48 lichter wrote:On July 12 2013 01:47 Big J wrote:
Btw, how are group standings decided?
Is it:
1. Match wins
2. set difference
3. set wins
4. direct duel
?
Asking because Liquipedia says First isn't through yet, which would mean it is not like I described and there is some weird tiebreaker way to still prevent him from advancing. Only set wins. If there are ties, they play again. Tiebreakers are Bo1, played after the last day of Ro16. Ah ok, so if First wins one game he goes on, because then in the worst case for him it's 1. First 5-2 2. hyvaa 5-4 3. Rain 4-3 If he loses however 2-0, it can be 1. hyvaa 5-3 2. First 4-2 2. Rain 4-3 or 4-4 and First and Rain play a tiebreaker. Right? No lol. By set wins, its like how many series you won against other people in the group. First is 2-0 at the moment and has hvyaa left. If he loses, he goes 2-1 and hyvaa goes 2-1. Then, if Rain beats Fantasy, it would be Rain 2-1 with Fantasy 0-3. Therefore, Fantasy is eliminated and Hyvaa, Rain, and First play tiebreakers to determine which two advance. Another example: First beats Hyvaa, and Fantasy beats Rain. This means that Fantasy is 1-2, Rain is 1-2, Hyvaa is 1-2, and First is 3-0. First is through to the Round of 8 while Fantasy, Rain, and Hyvaa play tiebreakers to determine who gets the last seed. that's match wins, not set wins what you describe A set is a match. "Set" of games implying there are multiple. The most unambiguous way to describe single games would be the term "map". This needed to be said, ever since koreans like SPL started referring to maps as a set people have forgotten that in actual English a set is a group of more than one thing.
JunkkaGOM please read this and help us TT
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On July 12 2013 08:30 snakeeyez wrote:
Not happy with flash losing. I fail to see how a player as good as flash in terms of talent can not dominate or win at this game I think it says something about SC 2 as a game so I will let people read into that what they will. Im sure someone will say flash in game 2 should have done this or that but it still feels too unforgiving if someone gets hard countered.
Then you look at Bogus and Soulkey. Two guys who have not only done well in SPL but since making code S have yet to get anything below a ro8. There is consistency when they dominate. To a lesser extent you could also include Rain.
Hell, Flash himself is sitting at the top of the SPL ranks with a 37-18 score...
Flash's fundamentals that he relies heavily upon are still enough to see him through to being in the upper echelon of pros. It's not like Thorzain or Demuslim beat Flash, pure mechanics allow him to distinguish himself. However, I feel that's also what keeps him from being the absolute best. It's why I've always considered Bogus the better terran in sc2 even when Flash beats him. He's just not as 3-dimensional.
Bomber while inferior in macro and probably in TvT (just like Bogus) to Flash, is at least comparable. The reason why he won, and why I expected him to do so (just like Bogus this season and the last) is because Flash is too predicable and unwilling to randomize his play more.
You might say he still shouldn't lose. I say, having a wide assortment of builds and a gameplan is also a very important skill. It's why MVP is still so consistent.
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EPT
