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On July 12 2013 06:29 slowbacontron wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 03:00 Big J wrote:On July 12 2013 02:39 Housemd wrote:On July 12 2013 01:53 Big J wrote:On July 12 2013 01:48 lichter wrote:On July 12 2013 01:47 Big J wrote:
Btw, how are group standings decided?
Is it:
1. Match wins
2. set difference
3. set wins
4. direct duel
?
Asking because Liquipedia says First isn't through yet, which would mean it is not like I described and there is some weird tiebreaker way to still prevent him from advancing. Only set wins. If there are ties, they play again. Tiebreakers are Bo1, played after the last day of Ro16. Ah ok, so if First wins one game he goes on, because then in the worst case for him it's 1. First 5-2 2. hyvaa 5-4 3. Rain 4-3 If he loses however 2-0, it can be 1. hyvaa 5-3 2. First 4-2 2. Rain 4-3 or 4-4 and First and Rain play a tiebreaker. Right? No lol. By set wins, its like how many series you won against other people in the group. First is 2-0 at the moment and has hvyaa left. If he loses, he goes 2-1 and hyvaa goes 2-1. Then, if Rain beats Fantasy, it would be Rain 2-1 with Fantasy 0-3. Therefore, Fantasy is eliminated and Hyvaa, Rain, and First play tiebreakers to determine which two advance. Another example: First beats Hyvaa, and Fantasy beats Rain. This means that Fantasy is 1-2, Rain is 1-2, Hyvaa is 1-2, and First is 3-0. First is through to the Round of 8 while Fantasy, Rain, and Hyvaa play tiebreakers to determine who gets the last seed. that's match wins, not set wins what you describe A set is a match. "Set" of games implying there are multiple. The most unambiguous way to describe single games would be the term "map".
In official Korean stats they talk about sets (single maps) and matches (a whole Best-of-X).
I explicitly used that wording to make clear what I mean:
Is it:
1. Match wins
2. set difference
3. set wins
4. direct duel
?
If it is not clear, the original post (quoted above) should raise the question why I used match wins and set wins.
Additionally, the word set makes perfect sense for anybody who has seen a tennis match. A set is closed sequence of gameplay, that you win or lose and it doesn't matter if it took 3hours and ended 6-4 or if it ended after 5mins and you won 6-0. Same as a set in starcraft, where it doesn't matter whether you won with a 2rax on Daybreak or a long drawn out macrogame on Steppes of War. You get 1set for that and need to win a BoX sets which can vary (just like in Tennis) to win the match.
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Koreans use the word set but it's really common for them to have imperfect English. As for tennis, that's true, but Starcraft isn't a game that ends 6-4 or 6-0. The closest thing to a point in Starcraft is a map win, and a group of maps/points is a set. It may not be consistent with tennis, but the two games are played differently.
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On July 12 2013 08:59 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 08:30 snakeeyez wrote:
Not happy with flash losing. I fail to see how a player as good as flash in terms of talent can not dominate or win at this game I think it says something about SC 2 as a game so I will let people read into that what they will. Im sure someone will say flash in game 2 should have done this or that but it still feels too unforgiving if someone gets hard countered. Then you look at Bogus and Soulkey. Two guys who have not only done well in SPL but since making code S have yet to get anything below a ro8. There is consistency when they dominate. To a lesser extent you could also include Rain. Hell, Flash himself is sitting at the top of the SPL ranks with a 37-18 score... Flash's fundamentals that he relies heavily upon are still enough to see him through to being in the upper echelon of pros. It's not like Thorzain or Demuslim beat Flash, pure mechanics allow him to distinguish himself. However, I feel that's also what keeps him from being the absolute best. It's why I've always considered Bogus the better terran in sc2 even when Flash beats him. He's just not as 3-dimensional. Bomber while inferior in macro and probably in TvT (just like Bogus) to Flash, is at least comparable. The reason why he won, and why I expected him to do so (just like Bogus this season and the last) is because Flash is too predicable and unwilling to randomize his play more. You might say he still shouldn't lose. I say, having a wide assortment of builds and a gameplan is also a very important skill. It's why MVP is still so consistent.
it's just not flash's style to study an opponent in-depth and prepare specific counters like bomber did. i would think he has a much more holistic approach to solving problems and preparing strategies than your average player, coming up with things that would apply to a matchup as a whole. he got sniped by bomber's builds, that's it. it happens to the best of them, like shine and flying stomping innovation in proleague.
it's also not flash's style to alter his play just for the sake of being unpredictable. he uses what he thinks he has the best chance to win with according to his strengths. love it or hate it, it's flash.
at this point, these two things have pros and cons. i honestly think flash is still lacking a lot in terms of experience and knowledge and has a lot of room for improvement. he still has a lot of holes that could be exploited. he said himself he's at 50% of his potential, and i believe him. i also really believe that once he has mastered the intricacies of the game like he has with broodwar, he'll be one dominant player, much more so than he is now. time will tell though 
edit: btw, flash countered hellbat play with hellions before anyone did. i think it was his tvt game vs cure in proleague. he also countered them with tanks in his game vs baby.
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I know you're right magus, but haters gonna hate.
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On July 12 2013 08:30 snakeeyez wrote:
Not happy with flash losing. I fail to see how a player as good as flash in terms of talent can not dominate or win at this game I think it says something about SC 2 as a game so I will let people read into that what they will. Im sure someone will say flash in game 2 should have done this or that but it still feels too unforgiving if someone gets hard countered.
I don't even... you've gone full fucking retard...
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That was really dominating play by bombrr. Eve after the banshee getting scouted he totally outsmarted flash there. I want to see bomber vs first finals.
Hoping fantasy doesnt throw but he probably will.
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On July 12 2013 09:44 theMagus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 08:59 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On July 12 2013 08:30 snakeeyez wrote:
Not happy with flash losing. I fail to see how a player as good as flash in terms of talent can not dominate or win at this game I think it says something about SC 2 as a game so I will let people read into that what they will. Im sure someone will say flash in game 2 should have done this or that but it still feels too unforgiving if someone gets hard countered. Then you look at Bogus and Soulkey. Two guys who have not only done well in SPL but since making code S have yet to get anything below a ro8. There is consistency when they dominate. To a lesser extent you could also include Rain. Hell, Flash himself is sitting at the top of the SPL ranks with a 37-18 score... Flash's fundamentals that he relies heavily upon are still enough to see him through to being in the upper echelon of pros. It's not like Thorzain or Demuslim beat Flash, pure mechanics allow him to distinguish himself. However, I feel that's also what keeps him from being the absolute best. It's why I've always considered Bogus the better terran in sc2 even when Flash beats him. He's just not as 3-dimensional. Bomber while inferior in macro and probably in TvT (just like Bogus) to Flash, is at least comparable. The reason why he won, and why I expected him to do so (just like Bogus this season and the last) is because Flash is too predicable and unwilling to randomize his play more. You might say he still shouldn't lose. I say, having a wide assortment of builds and a gameplan is also a very important skill. It's why MVP is still so consistent. it's just not flash's style to study an opponent in-depth and prepare specific counters like bomber did. i would think he has a much more holistic approach to solving problems and preparing strategies than your average player, coming up with things that would apply to a matchup as a whole. he got sniped by bomber's builds, that's it. it happens to the best of them, like shine and flying stomping innovation in proleague. it's also not flash's style to alter his play just for the sake of being unpredictable. he uses what he thinks he has the best chance to win with according to his strengths. love it or hate it, it's flash. at this point, these two things have pros and cons. i honestly think flash is still lacking a lot in terms of experience and knowledge and has a lot of room for improvement. he still has a lot of holes that could be exploited. he said himself he's at 50% of his potential, and i believe him. i also really believe that once he has mastered the intricacies of the game like he has with broodwar, he'll be one dominant player, much more so than he is now. time will tell though edit: btw, flash countered hellbat play with hellions before anyone did. i think it was his tvt game vs cure in proleague. he also countered them with tanks in his game vs baby.
come on, you can refer to Mvp vs INnoVation in WCS, where Mvp use hellion to kite hellbats
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On July 12 2013 12:20 winthrop wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 09:44 theMagus wrote:On July 12 2013 08:59 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On July 12 2013 08:30 snakeeyez wrote:
Not happy with flash losing. I fail to see how a player as good as flash in terms of talent can not dominate or win at this game I think it says something about SC 2 as a game so I will let people read into that what they will. Im sure someone will say flash in game 2 should have done this or that but it still feels too unforgiving if someone gets hard countered. Then you look at Bogus and Soulkey. Two guys who have not only done well in SPL but since making code S have yet to get anything below a ro8. There is consistency when they dominate. To a lesser extent you could also include Rain. Hell, Flash himself is sitting at the top of the SPL ranks with a 37-18 score... Flash's fundamentals that he relies heavily upon are still enough to see him through to being in the upper echelon of pros. It's not like Thorzain or Demuslim beat Flash, pure mechanics allow him to distinguish himself. However, I feel that's also what keeps him from being the absolute best. It's why I've always considered Bogus the better terran in sc2 even when Flash beats him. He's just not as 3-dimensional. Bomber while inferior in macro and probably in TvT (just like Bogus) to Flash, is at least comparable. The reason why he won, and why I expected him to do so (just like Bogus this season and the last) is because Flash is too predicable and unwilling to randomize his play more. You might say he still shouldn't lose. I say, having a wide assortment of builds and a gameplan is also a very important skill. It's why MVP is still so consistent. it's just not flash's style to study an opponent in-depth and prepare specific counters like bomber did. i would think he has a much more holistic approach to solving problems and preparing strategies than your average player, coming up with things that would apply to a matchup as a whole. he got sniped by bomber's builds, that's it. it happens to the best of them, like shine and flying stomping innovation in proleague. it's also not flash's style to alter his play just for the sake of being unpredictable. he uses what he thinks he has the best chance to win with according to his strengths. love it or hate it, it's flash. at this point, these two things have pros and cons. i honestly think flash is still lacking a lot in terms of experience and knowledge and has a lot of room for improvement. he still has a lot of holes that could be exploited. he said himself he's at 50% of his potential, and i believe him. i also really believe that once he has mastered the intricacies of the game like he has with broodwar, he'll be one dominant player, much more so than he is now. time will tell though edit: btw, flash countered hellbat play with hellions before anyone did. i think it was his tvt game vs cure in proleague. he also countered them with tanks in his game vs baby. come on, you can refer to Mvp vs INnoVation in WCS, where Mvp use hellion to kite hellbats
It was forGG build.
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On July 12 2013 12:20 winthrop wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 09:44 theMagus wrote:On July 12 2013 08:59 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On July 12 2013 08:30 snakeeyez wrote:
Not happy with flash losing. I fail to see how a player as good as flash in terms of talent can not dominate or win at this game I think it says something about SC 2 as a game so I will let people read into that what they will. Im sure someone will say flash in game 2 should have done this or that but it still feels too unforgiving if someone gets hard countered. Then you look at Bogus and Soulkey. Two guys who have not only done well in SPL but since making code S have yet to get anything below a ro8. There is consistency when they dominate. To a lesser extent you could also include Rain. Hell, Flash himself is sitting at the top of the SPL ranks with a 37-18 score... Flash's fundamentals that he relies heavily upon are still enough to see him through to being in the upper echelon of pros. It's not like Thorzain or Demuslim beat Flash, pure mechanics allow him to distinguish himself. However, I feel that's also what keeps him from being the absolute best. It's why I've always considered Bogus the better terran in sc2 even when Flash beats him. He's just not as 3-dimensional. Bomber while inferior in macro and probably in TvT (just like Bogus) to Flash, is at least comparable. The reason why he won, and why I expected him to do so (just like Bogus this season and the last) is because Flash is too predicable and unwilling to randomize his play more. You might say he still shouldn't lose. I say, having a wide assortment of builds and a gameplan is also a very important skill. It's why MVP is still so consistent. it's just not flash's style to study an opponent in-depth and prepare specific counters like bomber did. i would think he has a much more holistic approach to solving problems and preparing strategies than your average player, coming up with things that would apply to a matchup as a whole. he got sniped by bomber's builds, that's it. it happens to the best of them, like shine and flying stomping innovation in proleague. it's also not flash's style to alter his play just for the sake of being unpredictable. he uses what he thinks he has the best chance to win with according to his strengths. love it or hate it, it's flash. at this point, these two things have pros and cons. i honestly think flash is still lacking a lot in terms of experience and knowledge and has a lot of room for improvement. he still has a lot of holes that could be exploited. he said himself he's at 50% of his potential, and i believe him. i also really believe that once he has mastered the intricacies of the game like he has with broodwar, he'll be one dominant player, much more so than he is now. time will tell though edit: btw, flash countered hellbat play with hellions before anyone did. i think it was his tvt game vs cure in proleague. he also countered them with tanks in his game vs baby. come on, you can refer to Mvp vs INnoVation in WCS, where Mvp use hellion to kite hellbats
come on, flash vs cure happened way before that match
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is it just me or are the wcs gsl twitch vods not working?
man i've already got the flash bomber results spoiled i need to watch this sooon
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On July 12 2013 13:52 theMagus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 12:20 winthrop wrote:On July 12 2013 09:44 theMagus wrote:On July 12 2013 08:59 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On July 12 2013 08:30 snakeeyez wrote:
Not happy with flash losing. I fail to see how a player as good as flash in terms of talent can not dominate or win at this game I think it says something about SC 2 as a game so I will let people read into that what they will. Im sure someone will say flash in game 2 should have done this or that but it still feels too unforgiving if someone gets hard countered. Then you look at Bogus and Soulkey. Two guys who have not only done well in SPL but since making code S have yet to get anything below a ro8. There is consistency when they dominate. To a lesser extent you could also include Rain. Hell, Flash himself is sitting at the top of the SPL ranks with a 37-18 score... Flash's fundamentals that he relies heavily upon are still enough to see him through to being in the upper echelon of pros. It's not like Thorzain or Demuslim beat Flash, pure mechanics allow him to distinguish himself. However, I feel that's also what keeps him from being the absolute best. It's why I've always considered Bogus the better terran in sc2 even when Flash beats him. He's just not as 3-dimensional. Bomber while inferior in macro and probably in TvT (just like Bogus) to Flash, is at least comparable. The reason why he won, and why I expected him to do so (just like Bogus this season and the last) is because Flash is too predicable and unwilling to randomize his play more. You might say he still shouldn't lose. I say, having a wide assortment of builds and a gameplan is also a very important skill. It's why MVP is still so consistent. it's just not flash's style to study an opponent in-depth and prepare specific counters like bomber did. i would think he has a much more holistic approach to solving problems and preparing strategies than your average player, coming up with things that would apply to a matchup as a whole. he got sniped by bomber's builds, that's it. it happens to the best of them, like shine and flying stomping innovation in proleague. it's also not flash's style to alter his play just for the sake of being unpredictable. he uses what he thinks he has the best chance to win with according to his strengths. love it or hate it, it's flash. at this point, these two things have pros and cons. i honestly think flash is still lacking a lot in terms of experience and knowledge and has a lot of room for improvement. he still has a lot of holes that could be exploited. he said himself he's at 50% of his potential, and i believe him. i also really believe that once he has mastered the intricacies of the game like he has with broodwar, he'll be one dominant player, much more so than he is now. time will tell though edit: btw, flash countered hellbat play with hellions before anyone did. i think it was his tvt game vs cure in proleague. he also countered them with tanks in his game vs baby. come on, you can refer to Mvp vs INnoVation in WCS, where Mvp use hellion to kite hellbats come on, flash vs cure happened way before that match
And ForGG was doing it way before that.
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On July 12 2013 14:40 AxionSteel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 13:52 theMagus wrote:On July 12 2013 12:20 winthrop wrote:On July 12 2013 09:44 theMagus wrote:On July 12 2013 08:59 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On July 12 2013 08:30 snakeeyez wrote:
Not happy with flash losing. I fail to see how a player as good as flash in terms of talent can not dominate or win at this game I think it says something about SC 2 as a game so I will let people read into that what they will. Im sure someone will say flash in game 2 should have done this or that but it still feels too unforgiving if someone gets hard countered. Then you look at Bogus and Soulkey. Two guys who have not only done well in SPL but since making code S have yet to get anything below a ro8. There is consistency when they dominate. To a lesser extent you could also include Rain. Hell, Flash himself is sitting at the top of the SPL ranks with a 37-18 score... Flash's fundamentals that he relies heavily upon are still enough to see him through to being in the upper echelon of pros. It's not like Thorzain or Demuslim beat Flash, pure mechanics allow him to distinguish himself. However, I feel that's also what keeps him from being the absolute best. It's why I've always considered Bogus the better terran in sc2 even when Flash beats him. He's just not as 3-dimensional. Bomber while inferior in macro and probably in TvT (just like Bogus) to Flash, is at least comparable. The reason why he won, and why I expected him to do so (just like Bogus this season and the last) is because Flash is too predicable and unwilling to randomize his play more. You might say he still shouldn't lose. I say, having a wide assortment of builds and a gameplan is also a very important skill. It's why MVP is still so consistent. it's just not flash's style to study an opponent in-depth and prepare specific counters like bomber did. i would think he has a much more holistic approach to solving problems and preparing strategies than your average player, coming up with things that would apply to a matchup as a whole. he got sniped by bomber's builds, that's it. it happens to the best of them, like shine and flying stomping innovation in proleague. it's also not flash's style to alter his play just for the sake of being unpredictable. he uses what he thinks he has the best chance to win with according to his strengths. love it or hate it, it's flash. at this point, these two things have pros and cons. i honestly think flash is still lacking a lot in terms of experience and knowledge and has a lot of room for improvement. he still has a lot of holes that could be exploited. he said himself he's at 50% of his potential, and i believe him. i also really believe that once he has mastered the intricacies of the game like he has with broodwar, he'll be one dominant player, much more so than he is now. time will tell though edit: btw, flash countered hellbat play with hellions before anyone did. i think it was his tvt game vs cure in proleague. he also countered them with tanks in his game vs baby. come on, you can refer to Mvp vs INnoVation in WCS, where Mvp use hellion to kite hellbats come on, flash vs cure happened way before that match And ForGG was doing it way before that.
i wouldn't know, i don't really watch him. it doesn't really matter anyway. i'm just positive flash came up with it on his own.
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On July 12 2013 11:24 Gorribal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 08:30 snakeeyez wrote:
Not happy with flash losing. I fail to see how a player as good as flash in terms of talent can not dominate or win at this game I think it says something about SC 2 as a game so I will let people read into that what they will. Im sure someone will say flash in game 2 should have done this or that but it still feels too unforgiving if someone gets hard countered. I don't even... you've gone full fucking retard...
Starcraft 2 has been and always will be 1a2a3a. Its hilarious when people go nuts when they see Parting right click two templar into a terran army and storm. Fucking humor me.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On July 12 2013 15:02 Marshall_D wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 11:24 Gorribal wrote:On July 12 2013 08:30 snakeeyez wrote:
Not happy with flash losing. I fail to see how a player as good as flash in terms of talent can not dominate or win at this game I think it says something about SC 2 as a game so I will let people read into that what they will. Im sure someone will say flash in game 2 should have done this or that but it still feels too unforgiving if someone gets hard countered. I don't even... you've gone full fucking retard... Starcraft 2 has been and always will be 1a2a3a. Its hilarious when people go nuts when they see Parting right click two templar into a terran army and storm. Fucking humor me.
so stop watching the stupid game.
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On July 12 2013 13:12 painkilla wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 12:20 winthrop wrote:On July 12 2013 09:44 theMagus wrote:On July 12 2013 08:59 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On July 12 2013 08:30 snakeeyez wrote:
Not happy with flash losing. I fail to see how a player as good as flash in terms of talent can not dominate or win at this game I think it says something about SC 2 as a game so I will let people read into that what they will. Im sure someone will say flash in game 2 should have done this or that but it still feels too unforgiving if someone gets hard countered. Then you look at Bogus and Soulkey. Two guys who have not only done well in SPL but since making code S have yet to get anything below a ro8. There is consistency when they dominate. To a lesser extent you could also include Rain. Hell, Flash himself is sitting at the top of the SPL ranks with a 37-18 score... Flash's fundamentals that he relies heavily upon are still enough to see him through to being in the upper echelon of pros. It's not like Thorzain or Demuslim beat Flash, pure mechanics allow him to distinguish himself. However, I feel that's also what keeps him from being the absolute best. It's why I've always considered Bogus the better terran in sc2 even when Flash beats him. He's just not as 3-dimensional. Bomber while inferior in macro and probably in TvT (just like Bogus) to Flash, is at least comparable. The reason why he won, and why I expected him to do so (just like Bogus this season and the last) is because Flash is too predicable and unwilling to randomize his play more. You might say he still shouldn't lose. I say, having a wide assortment of builds and a gameplan is also a very important skill. It's why MVP is still so consistent. it's just not flash's style to study an opponent in-depth and prepare specific counters like bomber did. i would think he has a much more holistic approach to solving problems and preparing strategies than your average player, coming up with things that would apply to a matchup as a whole. he got sniped by bomber's builds, that's it. it happens to the best of them, like shine and flying stomping innovation in proleague. it's also not flash's style to alter his play just for the sake of being unpredictable. he uses what he thinks he has the best chance to win with according to his strengths. love it or hate it, it's flash. at this point, these two things have pros and cons. i honestly think flash is still lacking a lot in terms of experience and knowledge and has a lot of room for improvement. he still has a lot of holes that could be exploited. he said himself he's at 50% of his potential, and i believe him. i also really believe that once he has mastered the intricacies of the game like he has with broodwar, he'll be one dominant player, much more so than he is now. time will tell though edit: btw, flash countered hellbat play with hellions before anyone did. i think it was his tvt game vs cure in proleague. he also countered them with tanks in his game vs baby. come on, you can refer to Mvp vs INnoVation in WCS, where Mvp use hellion to kite hellbats It was forGG build.
Indeed, that tells you a lot about the poster 
On July 12 2013 14:50 theMagus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 14:40 AxionSteel wrote:On July 12 2013 13:52 theMagus wrote:On July 12 2013 12:20 winthrop wrote:On July 12 2013 09:44 theMagus wrote:On July 12 2013 08:59 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On July 12 2013 08:30 snakeeyez wrote:
Not happy with flash losing. I fail to see how a player as good as flash in terms of talent can not dominate or win at this game I think it says something about SC 2 as a game so I will let people read into that what they will. Im sure someone will say flash in game 2 should have done this or that but it still feels too unforgiving if someone gets hard countered. Then you look at Bogus and Soulkey. Two guys who have not only done well in SPL but since making code S have yet to get anything below a ro8. There is consistency when they dominate. To a lesser extent you could also include Rain. Hell, Flash himself is sitting at the top of the SPL ranks with a 37-18 score... Flash's fundamentals that he relies heavily upon are still enough to see him through to being in the upper echelon of pros. It's not like Thorzain or Demuslim beat Flash, pure mechanics allow him to distinguish himself. However, I feel that's also what keeps him from being the absolute best. It's why I've always considered Bogus the better terran in sc2 even when Flash beats him. He's just not as 3-dimensional. Bomber while inferior in macro and probably in TvT (just like Bogus) to Flash, is at least comparable. The reason why he won, and why I expected him to do so (just like Bogus this season and the last) is because Flash is too predicable and unwilling to randomize his play more. You might say he still shouldn't lose. I say, having a wide assortment of builds and a gameplan is also a very important skill. It's why MVP is still so consistent. it's just not flash's style to study an opponent in-depth and prepare specific counters like bomber did. i would think he has a much more holistic approach to solving problems and preparing strategies than your average player, coming up with things that would apply to a matchup as a whole. he got sniped by bomber's builds, that's it. it happens to the best of them, like shine and flying stomping innovation in proleague. it's also not flash's style to alter his play just for the sake of being unpredictable. he uses what he thinks he has the best chance to win with according to his strengths. love it or hate it, it's flash. at this point, these two things have pros and cons. i honestly think flash is still lacking a lot in terms of experience and knowledge and has a lot of room for improvement. he still has a lot of holes that could be exploited. he said himself he's at 50% of his potential, and i believe him. i also really believe that once he has mastered the intricacies of the game like he has with broodwar, he'll be one dominant player, much more so than he is now. time will tell though edit: btw, flash countered hellbat play with hellions before anyone did. i think it was his tvt game vs cure in proleague. he also countered them with tanks in his game vs baby. come on, you can refer to Mvp vs INnoVation in WCS, where Mvp use hellion to kite hellbats come on, flash vs cure happened way before that match And ForGG was doing it way before that. i wouldn't know, i don't really watch him. it doesn't really matter anyway. i'm just positive flash came up with it on his own.
Then don't come up with silly claims. And to be honest, in my book, bomber was favored, no matter what PR said because those TvTs bomber had were pretty darn amazing.
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On July 12 2013 19:20 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 13:12 painkilla wrote:On July 12 2013 12:20 winthrop wrote:On July 12 2013 09:44 theMagus wrote:On July 12 2013 08:59 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On July 12 2013 08:30 snakeeyez wrote:
Not happy with flash losing. I fail to see how a player as good as flash in terms of talent can not dominate or win at this game I think it says something about SC 2 as a game so I will let people read into that what they will. Im sure someone will say flash in game 2 should have done this or that but it still feels too unforgiving if someone gets hard countered. Then you look at Bogus and Soulkey. Two guys who have not only done well in SPL but since making code S have yet to get anything below a ro8. There is consistency when they dominate. To a lesser extent you could also include Rain. Hell, Flash himself is sitting at the top of the SPL ranks with a 37-18 score... Flash's fundamentals that he relies heavily upon are still enough to see him through to being in the upper echelon of pros. It's not like Thorzain or Demuslim beat Flash, pure mechanics allow him to distinguish himself. However, I feel that's also what keeps him from being the absolute best. It's why I've always considered Bogus the better terran in sc2 even when Flash beats him. He's just not as 3-dimensional. Bomber while inferior in macro and probably in TvT (just like Bogus) to Flash, is at least comparable. The reason why he won, and why I expected him to do so (just like Bogus this season and the last) is because Flash is too predicable and unwilling to randomize his play more. You might say he still shouldn't lose. I say, having a wide assortment of builds and a gameplan is also a very important skill. It's why MVP is still so consistent. it's just not flash's style to study an opponent in-depth and prepare specific counters like bomber did. i would think he has a much more holistic approach to solving problems and preparing strategies than your average player, coming up with things that would apply to a matchup as a whole. he got sniped by bomber's builds, that's it. it happens to the best of them, like shine and flying stomping innovation in proleague. it's also not flash's style to alter his play just for the sake of being unpredictable. he uses what he thinks he has the best chance to win with according to his strengths. love it or hate it, it's flash. at this point, these two things have pros and cons. i honestly think flash is still lacking a lot in terms of experience and knowledge and has a lot of room for improvement. he still has a lot of holes that could be exploited. he said himself he's at 50% of his potential, and i believe him. i also really believe that once he has mastered the intricacies of the game like he has with broodwar, he'll be one dominant player, much more so than he is now. time will tell though edit: btw, flash countered hellbat play with hellions before anyone did. i think it was his tvt game vs cure in proleague. he also countered them with tanks in his game vs baby. come on, you can refer to Mvp vs INnoVation in WCS, where Mvp use hellion to kite hellbats It was forGG build. Indeed, that tells you a lot about the poster Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 14:50 theMagus wrote:On July 12 2013 14:40 AxionSteel wrote:On July 12 2013 13:52 theMagus wrote:On July 12 2013 12:20 winthrop wrote:On July 12 2013 09:44 theMagus wrote:On July 12 2013 08:59 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On July 12 2013 08:30 snakeeyez wrote:
Not happy with flash losing. I fail to see how a player as good as flash in terms of talent can not dominate or win at this game I think it says something about SC 2 as a game so I will let people read into that what they will. Im sure someone will say flash in game 2 should have done this or that but it still feels too unforgiving if someone gets hard countered. Then you look at Bogus and Soulkey. Two guys who have not only done well in SPL but since making code S have yet to get anything below a ro8. There is consistency when they dominate. To a lesser extent you could also include Rain. Hell, Flash himself is sitting at the top of the SPL ranks with a 37-18 score... Flash's fundamentals that he relies heavily upon are still enough to see him through to being in the upper echelon of pros. It's not like Thorzain or Demuslim beat Flash, pure mechanics allow him to distinguish himself. However, I feel that's also what keeps him from being the absolute best. It's why I've always considered Bogus the better terran in sc2 even when Flash beats him. He's just not as 3-dimensional. Bomber while inferior in macro and probably in TvT (just like Bogus) to Flash, is at least comparable. The reason why he won, and why I expected him to do so (just like Bogus this season and the last) is because Flash is too predicable and unwilling to randomize his play more. You might say he still shouldn't lose. I say, having a wide assortment of builds and a gameplan is also a very important skill. It's why MVP is still so consistent. it's just not flash's style to study an opponent in-depth and prepare specific counters like bomber did. i would think he has a much more holistic approach to solving problems and preparing strategies than your average player, coming up with things that would apply to a matchup as a whole. he got sniped by bomber's builds, that's it. it happens to the best of them, like shine and flying stomping innovation in proleague. it's also not flash's style to alter his play just for the sake of being unpredictable. he uses what he thinks he has the best chance to win with according to his strengths. love it or hate it, it's flash. at this point, these two things have pros and cons. i honestly think flash is still lacking a lot in terms of experience and knowledge and has a lot of room for improvement. he still has a lot of holes that could be exploited. he said himself he's at 50% of his potential, and i believe him. i also really believe that once he has mastered the intricacies of the game like he has with broodwar, he'll be one dominant player, much more so than he is now. time will tell though edit: btw, flash countered hellbat play with hellions before anyone did. i think it was his tvt game vs cure in proleague. he also countered them with tanks in his game vs baby. come on, you can refer to Mvp vs INnoVation in WCS, where Mvp use hellion to kite hellbats come on, flash vs cure happened way before that match And ForGG was doing it way before that. i wouldn't know, i don't really watch him. it doesn't really matter anyway. i'm just positive flash came up with it on his own. Then don't come up with silly claims. And to be honest, in my book, bomber was favored, no matter what PR said because those TvTs bomber had were pretty darn amazing.
i have no problem accepting if forgg really did it first. i'll gladly take what i said back if that's the case. i just know flash came up with it on his own. that's the only thing i wanna say about that. and i'm not surprised about your book seeing what team you root for lol.
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How do you really know ? Doesn't he has coaches to tell him about builds which other people had done ? Do you work in his house ? And what i find more weird, how do you find that to be a "good trait" if he finds builds later than anybody else, because he does on his own. His work is to win not to try to reinvent the wheel, so i really doubt that's the case.
About the my team, yeah i am a bomberfan, but go watch those games before using an ad hominen, just in case you make a fool of yourself again.
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On July 12 2013 19:31 Godwrath wrote:
How do you really know ? Doesn't he has coaches to tell him about builds which other people had done ? Do you work in his house ? And what i find more weird, how do you find that to be a "good trait" if he finds builds later than anybody else, because he does on his own. His work is to win not to try to reinvent the wheel, so i really doubt that's the case.
About the my team, yeah i am a bomberfan, but go watch those games before using an ad hominen, just in case you make a fool of yourself again.
coz flash ain't no copycat. that's all i'll tell you lol.
i don't understand what you're referring to with the good trait thing. clarify.
i don't really care if you think i'm a fool for making a mistake on something that doesn't really matter. i make mistakes all the time, i just accept them and try to do better. your opinion of me has no value to me whatsoever.
edit: hate more, bomberfan
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Because being stubborn, predictable and self-impossing yourself to be behind on game knowledge are not exactly a good trait on sc2. You can like him for that, tho.
That's the good thing about being a bomberfan, whenever he loses, you can shrug it off and probably even have some laughs about it
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On July 12 2013 19:46 Godwrath wrote:Because being stubborn, predictable and self-impossing yourself to be behind on game knowledge are not exactly a good trait on sc2. You can like him for that, tho. That's the good thing about being a bomberfan, whenever he loses, you can shrug it off and probably even have some laughs about it
flash just does things differently from other players. him being stubborn doesn't mean he'd rather be behind in game knowledge lol. it just means he chooses to deal with what he knows an opponent might do in a different manner, and said manner has taken him to the top of the kespa rankings. don't get me wrong, i also get frustrated by him sometimes when he loses. i would never think of telling him what to do though if i had the opportunity to do so. people like him, you just let them do their thing
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EPT
