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WCS Season 1 Finals Day 1 - Page 162

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 160 161 162 163 164 336 Next
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
June 07 2013 06:08 GMT
#3221
--- Nuked ---
FetTerBender
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany1393 Posts
June 07 2013 06:09 GMT
#3222
Dem waiting times... Ah well, guess ill go 2 work :-(
There's a fine line between bravery and stupidity.
Rescawen
Profile Joined April 2010
Finland1028 Posts
June 07 2013 06:09 GMT
#3223
this production is quite disappointing and lackluster tbh...
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12714 Posts
June 07 2013 06:09 GMT
#3224
On June 07 2013 15:08 Emzeeshady wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2013 15:04 SupLilSon wrote:
On June 07 2013 15:03 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 07 2013 15:02 SupLilSon wrote:
On June 07 2013 14:59 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 07 2013 14:56 SupLilSon wrote:
On June 07 2013 14:47 scypio wrote:
On June 07 2013 14:43 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On June 07 2013 14:40 SSVnormandy wrote:
ZvT meta : "just defend the damn allin"


I foresee this as the meta until blizzard hits terran with the nerf bat/buffs zerg. Macro games against terran are just so ridiculous with hellbats/mines. Mines act as an insane equalizer and for their cost they do so much versus zerg. I don't really know what the answer is because it seems like ZvP and TvP are pretty balanced and I don't know what changes they can make that won't destroy those match ups.


That's a great idea! The zergs have won 5 GSLs in a row. They have 14 players in Code-S/Premier KR for the third time in a row.

The terran is at all-time low with just 8 Code-S players. Last GSL they won was in May 2012, over a year ago.

Let's nerf terran! :D


Pshhhh.. get outa here with your statisticals and fancy jargon!

The fact that Zergs have won a bunch of GSLs in a row isn't stats. It is just irrelevant information especially given that 4 of those were in WOL.

Also if balance could be determined by how many players of that race were in Code S then Terran must have been OP for 3/4 of WOL.


According to the community and based on which races got nerfs, they were... discussing balance in LR thread.. I'm just gonna stop here. When there was an abundance of GSL Terrans it was conclusive proof of imbalance. Now that Zerg has dominated the Korean scene for months on end GSL stats are "irrelevant information". lol

Yes, because that was in WOL, how do you not understand this lol?


I understand this... what do you not understand? It's not like we transitioned from BW to SC2... it's a continuation of the same game...

Are you actually trying to argue that GSL stats in WOL are relevant to HOTS balance. Maybe they would be in say TvP but given how much TvZ has changed they just are not. Especially since a lot of the stuff people are debating about are the new units and abilities. Infestor/Broodlord, the main source of ZvT wins in WOL has been completely wiped out. Therefore Zerg wins using this strategy in WOL have no relevance towards HOTS balance.

but right now zerg is winning by roach baneling all in which was the main strategy during MMA DRG era lol
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Undead1993
Profile Joined January 2012
Germany17651 Posts
June 07 2013 06:10 GMT
#3225
On June 07 2013 15:09 Rescawen wrote:
this production is quite disappointing and lackluster tbh...

ye wtf are we waiting for
SEKO SEKO SEKO SEKO SEKO
Ysellian
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands9029 Posts
June 07 2013 06:10 GMT
#3226
On June 07 2013 15:08 Oboeman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2013 15:07 Zinthar wrote:
On June 07 2013 15:03 IPeePeeALLDAY wrote:
Mvp is gonna teach Ryung how to defend Lorisa's roach/bane/ling


I hope so, but Mvp has proven vulnerable to those types of things in the past. Frankly, just building tanks before mines would probably be sufficient, and then switch into full-on mine when tunneling claws is being researched. This would slow down bio upgrades and/or medivac production, but the fact that standard bio-mine play allows those to come out so early is part of why it's so incredibly strong if the Zerg doesn't try to punish it.

pretty sure he's going to 11/11


or go mech.
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
June 07 2013 06:10 GMT
#3227
--- Nuked ---
aoe2fan
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden700 Posts
June 07 2013 06:10 GMT
#3228
On June 07 2013 14:57 ThomasR wrote:
imagine if this tournament had life, flash, parting etc. instead of the likes of revival, tlo and forgg


it's called Code S
Oboeman
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3980 Posts
June 07 2013 06:10 GMT
#3229
On June 07 2013 15:10 Undead1993 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2013 15:09 Rescawen wrote:
this production is quite disappointing and lackluster tbh...

ye wtf are we waiting for


casters are ironing their pants
AlternativeEgo
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden17309 Posts
June 07 2013 06:10 GMT
#3230
On June 07 2013 15:09 FetTerBender wrote:
Dem waiting times... Ah well, guess ill go 2 work :-(


Nooooooo! It's not that bad D:
Mark Munoz looks like Gretorp
Dvriel
Profile Joined November 2011
607 Posts
June 07 2013 06:11 GMT
#3231
On June 07 2013 15:08 GTPGlitch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2013 14:59 Dvriel wrote:
http://drop.sc/340756

IF you dont believe me, going for 2-3 tanks is TOTALLY POSSBILE and transition into bio+mines without being so far behind. And this is only Diamond execution...I tried to adapt the Bombers TvZ from WoL.

http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-530/


Yeah i'm sure it's possible against zergs that float 800/400 at 61 supply and 8 minutes while on ~40 drones

Not against zergs that know how to macro though.


Well, this is Diamond League. Rememeber, that the Terran is as bad as the Zerg so they are even and we can consider it posible.Just go and check the Daily.If Bomber is able to do it vs Stephano....
Prevolved
Profile Joined March 2011
United States573 Posts
June 07 2013 06:11 GMT
#3232
christ... so much downtime
Know thyself.
Weavel
Profile Joined January 2010
Finland9223 Posts
June 07 2013 06:11 GMT
#3233
On June 07 2013 15:10 Undead1993 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2013 15:09 Rescawen wrote:
this production is quite disappointing and lackluster tbh...

ye wtf are we waiting for
Ye expected so much from OGN since TL likes to hype them, but so far gom is way ahead in terms of production.
Life/Seed//Mvp/NaNiwa fighting! ZeNEX forever!
Laryleprakon
Profile Joined May 2011
New Zealand9496 Posts
June 07 2013 06:11 GMT
#3234
On June 07 2013 15:10 Emzeeshady wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2013 15:07 Dodgin wrote:
On June 07 2013 15:04 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 07 2013 15:03 Dodgin wrote:
On June 07 2013 15:02 Laryleprakon wrote:
On June 07 2013 15:01 Dodgin wrote:
On June 07 2013 14:59 movac wrote:
oh man so the winner here get's to play against soulkey?


If that's true I would say this is the end of the line for both of them, and they're fighting for 8th place $ and points.

Maybe Losira could win in ZvZ but I doubt it...


I still want to see Mvp play a Bo5 (??) vs Soulkey! See if his hellbat/marador timings do anything or if he can win a mech game.


I don't really want to see Mvp get destroyed that badly >_>

idk, Mvp usually plays pretty safe and is good at scouting. Plus he is smarter then most Terrans and won't die to all ins 3 games in a row (Bomber -_-).


I don't think soulkey would all in vs mvp, he would just play macro and crush.

He all inned Alive and TLO and Mvp is most certainly better then both of those.

Honestly I have barely seen Soulkey win any macro games (not to say he couldn't do it exceptionally). I do know he is good at scrappy games.


Soulkey can play a macro TvZ as well as anyone if not better. I doubt Mvp would get crushed but he wouldn't be favoured at all imo.
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
June 07 2013 06:12 GMT
#3235
--- Nuked ---
ymir233
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States8275 Posts
June 07 2013 06:12 GMT
#3236
On June 07 2013 15:01 GTPGlitch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2013 14:54 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 07 2013 14:47 GTPGlitch wrote:
On June 07 2013 14:44 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 07 2013 14:43 GTPGlitch wrote:
On June 07 2013 14:38 Dvriel wrote:
On June 07 2013 14:34 IshinShishi wrote:
On June 07 2013 14:28 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 07 2013 14:26 Dvriel wrote:
On June 07 2013 14:22 blade55555 wrote:
[quote]

Stop being as greedy


Very well said Blade!! I want to see the Terrans finally change their stupid greedy style with 5CC in 5 minutes and understand this is TOO greedy. Not even koreans are able to defend it and Innovation lost finals because of this. Lets try some old WoL style and begin defending poking here and there with hellion till be prepared to go out.Every time Terran diez like this I am so happy and they deserve it.

Terrans are stubborn in their ways.

Yes, make those siege tanks and watch how your 43 scvs fare against 75 drones.


43 SCVs? You can have 52 SCVs in 10 min with only 2 bases and still make 3rd CC and expand at 12:30 with it landed!!! Just need to remember the Bombers TvZ from Day9s daily. Just got 2-3 Tanks to defend and switch to WM+bio with early upgrades as well.


Yeah no. "2-3 Tanks to defend" is also known as shooting yourself in the foot so you can't attack anything, and 52 scv's in 10 minutes is nothing compared to 80 drones on 3 bases with a fourth coming up, 2/2 done, hive and 3/3 on the way. You can't afford mines, tanks, upgrades, and bio at the same time, and tanks mean you can't put pressure on in TvZ because just zerglings hardcounter them so zerg sees the tanks and gets a free pass to do whatever until like 15:00 because the hardest attack that you'll face is like 6 hellions or 8 marine drop.

You really don't know anything about ZvT do you?


Oh yeah sure I mean I guess I just missed all those games where the pros did tank pushes in TvZ after 2010

Yeah, because that was what was wrong with your post...

First of all they don't have to blindly build tanks. The second a Terran sees the Zerg committing to Roaches they can go for them knowing that the Zerg is going to be very aggressive. No one builds roaches with the intention of heading to the lategame. Secondly the Terran doesn't have to get all those things at once. That is the greedy play we are talking about. The Zerg forgoes a shitload of tech and economy to do that attack so you don't need super fast ups and lots of bio. What you need are bunkers, tanks, widow mines and marauders. The Zerg forgoes Mutas so drop play is amazingly effective if the push is held off.

Also lings don't hard counter tanks, that is a stupid statement. With +1 mechanical tanks destroy lings.


1) See roach warren-build tanks or pray it's for hellion defense. Larva means you don't know an allin is coming until it's done producing. You don't see what eggs are building until it's done, and crossmap distances mean you get one, MAYBE two tanks out by the time the allin hits.

2) If you don't get upgrades+3CC fast, you are going to be on equal ground in the time when terran needs to do damage instead of ahead, which reduces the ability to do damage and in turn reduces chances of victory the longer the game goes on.

3) Building tanks, marauders, mines, and bunkers is also forgoing a shitload of tech and economy, and if you start it when you see the first roach come out you don't know if the zerg is just making a few for defense or if it's actually an allin. Delaying your third until after you have multiple tanks is also dumb because tanks delay tech to mine/medivac really hard and without gasses 5/6 it becomes a massive block. Can't afford medivacs on 2base going mine/marauder/tank/bunker, so drop play isn't actually effective because it happens just as well as mutas do.


I don't exactly get why Terrans want tanks AND mines AND medivacs AND bunkers AND a third base all at a reasonable time, but I'm fine with the ZvT matchup becoming 50/50 chance allins until hilarity ensues.
Come motivate me to be cynical about animus at http://infinityandone.blogspot.com/ // Stork proxy gates are beautiful.
groms
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada1017 Posts
June 07 2013 06:12 GMT
#3237
Ogn's production has not impressed me one bit today
I have a recurring dream that I'm running away from a terran player but the marauders keep slowing me down. - Artosis
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
June 07 2013 06:13 GMT
#3238
--- Nuked ---
EmmeCY
Profile Joined June 2012
Malaysia417 Posts
June 07 2013 06:13 GMT
#3239
Sooo much downtime!
but I do get to read my anatomy notes while waiting!
AlternativeEgo
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden17309 Posts
June 07 2013 06:13 GMT
#3240
Group C starts in 3 minutes and Mvp/Losira coming up. Games are go.
Mark Munoz looks like Gretorp
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