On May 30 2013 01:14 LighT. wrote: Surprised Savage managed to beat Yoda for 2nd, didnt think Savage was a good player. Crazy how there's actually a very good chance next season with only 1 LG-IM player in the WCS. Always used to seeing 5-6 of them in there.
There are already 3 guaranteed Code S for next season, Squirtle, RagnaroK and LosirA, but yeah. Would be nice if not every single IM player fails in the Up and Downs (Or so this fanboy thinks!).
On May 30 2013 01:14 LighT. wrote: Surprised Savage managed to beat Yoda for 2nd, didnt think Savage was a good player. Crazy how there's actually a very good chance next season with only 1 LG-IM player in the WCS. Always used to seeing 5-6 of them in there.
There are already 3 guaranteed Code S for next season, Squirtle, RagnaroK and LosirA, but yeah. Would be nice if not every single IM player fails in the Up and Downs (Or so this fanboy thinks!).
oh my..thats a bad mistake on my part..but 3 LG-IM players...thats still a low number than I'm used to seeing haha.
On May 30 2013 01:42 letian wrote: Wow, Savage and Fanta showing skill or is it + Show Spoiler +
esf
players choking the way they should ?
well...there's still a small sample size to go off of...but the whole notion I've had for the longest while that mid-tier KeSPA team players are more likely to take out mid-tier eSF player instead of vice versa is gaining some steam. Hmm...but lets put things into perspective. Yes, there are Kespa players advancing left and right over the eSF guys apparently but what about the qualifiers in order to get to Code A in the first place?
Names: TY Jaehoon Free Light Zero Dear Stats Action Zest Stork Reality herO Hydra sKyhigh
A huge list of big-names of mid-tier KeSPA that has failed to make it to Code A where the eSF players have. The whole argument is moot, although I see nothing wrong with people cheering for one side than the other. They're entitled to an opinion after all.
On May 30 2013 01:42 letian wrote: Wow, Savage and Fanta showing skill or is it + Show Spoiler +
esf
players choking the way they should ?
Now opterown and holyarrow this is a perfect opportunity for you two to put the "it takes two people to argue" analogy into practice. Then lets see how many related posts follow suit.
On May 30 2013 01:42 letian wrote: Wow, Savage and Fanta showing skill or is it + Show Spoiler +
esf
players choking the way they should ?
Now opterown and holyarrow this is a perfect opportunity for you two to put the "it takes two people to argue" analogy into practice. Then lets see how many related posts follow suit.
I'm going to reply back and start an argument with you instead. :D
On May 30 2013 01:42 letian wrote: Wow, Savage and Fanta showing skill or is it + Show Spoiler +
esf
players choking the way they should ?
Now opterown and holyarrow this is a perfect opportunity for you two to put the "it takes two people to argue" analogy into practice. Then lets see how many related posts follow suit.
I'm going to reply back and start an argument with you instead. :D
And I won't reply back after this which means that there's no argument.
On May 30 2013 01:42 letian wrote: Wow, Savage and Fanta showing skill or is it + Show Spoiler +
esf
players choking the way they should ?
Now opterown and holyarrow this is a perfect opportunity for you two to put the "it takes two people to argue" analogy into practice. Then lets see how many related posts follow suit.
I'm going to reply back and start an argument with you instead. :D
And I won't reply back after this which means that there's no argument.
On May 30 2013 01:42 letian wrote: Wow, Savage and Fanta showing skill or is it + Show Spoiler +
esf
players choking the way they should ?
Now opterown and holyarrow this is a perfect opportunity for you two to put the "it takes two people to argue" analogy into practice. Then lets see how many related posts follow suit.
I'm going to reply back and start an argument with you instead. :D
And I won't reply back after this which means that there's no argument.
No that just means you're weak and he won.
Maybe you should look at my previous arguments Also, it's not like we're competing for an award here.
On May 30 2013 01:14 LighT. wrote: Surprised Savage managed to beat Yoda for 2nd, didnt think Savage was a good player. Crazy how there's actually a very good chance next season with only 1 LG-IM player in the WCS. Always used to seeing 5-6 of them in there.
Squirtle, Losira and Ragnarok are already qualified for the Starleague I'm pretty sure? Unless you mean Code A? Even then there's like 4 or 5 of them in there.
A bit disappointed about Yoda. Only caught his game against Fantasy, but he didn't quite look like his WoL self. I hope he gets his mojo back, he has really showed some promising play.
You realize that your line of reasoning is flawed because it essentially incriminates you as well? It's the exact same pattern every time. Shitposting -> responses to shitposting criticizing said shitposting -> that one guy responding to the responses to the shitposting, criticizing said responses
In the end, it's the original shitposting to blame for starting everything.
Actually it's the person who responds to the trash posting because then it gives the trash poster motive to reply which then starts an argument and encourages others to get involved.
What's an argument with only one person? Exactly, it takes two people to argue.
Okay, so if I punched you in the face and you fought back, you'd be the one who started the fight because it takes two people to have a fight.
I realize that this analogy isn't perfect, but it should suffice for communicating why I think you're wrong.
That's a terrible analogy. It'd be more like one drunk kid running into an AA meeting and yelling nonsense. Then most of the meeting decides to get drunk and yell about how stupid the kid is.
I fail to see how it's a terrible analogy. Its bottom line is so simplistic I'm surprised you missed it.
And you say I fail at logic... equating seeing one troll post on a forum to being hit in the face is just ridiculous. If you go out of your way to tell a crazy person about how their opinion is idiotic when you could easily ignore it, then yes, you're responsible for the ensuing conflict.
You're still missing it.
The bottom line was that just as it takes two people to argue, it takes two people to fight, and to blame retaliator for starting everything is ridiculous. People like BlazeFury and you are parts of the problem because between
a. Asshats doing shit posting
and
b. People who just want to enjoy games but are sick of seeing shit posting and thus respond in hopes of drawing attention to the displeasure the original shit posting causes
you'd rather blame b rather than a for the whole mess. Your philosophy seems to be that if you ignore shit posters, they'll go away, but in my experience on forums, that's never really been the case. It's better to respond to them to draw even more attention to the problem so eventually something will actually be done about it. If no one voices their displeasure then everyone gets complacent and nothing changes.
On May 29 2013 22:42 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On May 29 2013 22:15 HolyArrow wrote:
On May 29 2013 21:45 BlazeFury01 wrote:
On May 29 2013 21:00 HolyArrow wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:53 Scarecrow wrote:
On May 29 2013 20:49 eGoRama wrote: [quote]
Yep I know that, I am just amused how no matter what is going on, instead of talking about the games/strategy/plays the topic is changed to Kespa vs eSF bullcrap. Like every time
For how much you and others say you hate this bullcrap, you and your fellow anti-kespa vs esf'ers have produced well over half the Kespa vs ESF related posts in this thread. Ignore the odd Kespa!!!! and stop drowning this thread in more of the shit you're complaining about.
You realize that your line of reasoning is flawed because it essentially incriminates you as well? It's the exact same pattern every time. Shitposting -> responses to shitposting criticizing said shitposting -> that one guy responding to the responses to the shitposting, criticizing said responses
In the end, it's the original shitposting to blame for starting everything.
Actually it's the person who responds to the trash posting because then it gives the trash poster motive to reply which then starts an argument and encourages others to get involved.
What's an argument with only one person? Exactly, it takes two people to argue.
Okay, so if I punched you in the face and you fought back, you'd be the one who started the fight because it takes two people to have a fight.
I realize that this analogy isn't perfect, but it should suffice for communicating why I think you're wrong.
The fact that you cannot even come up with a proper analogy is evidence that you shouldn't be trying to counter argue. Punching somebody in the face is physical harm that can lead to injury which is why it cannot be ignored and will result in self defense (hence me punch you back). You don't receive physical harm by ignoring a post online. I cannot believe you actually attempted to compare the two.
Wrong. You can ignore it by running away, instead of fighting back. But that aside, the funny thing is that I anticipated exactly this sort of response from you, hence my personal acknowledgment of how my analogy is hardly perfect. But like I said, it's enough to communicate my issue with how somehow "it takes two people to argue" is your justification for blaming the responding party rather than the party being responded to.
While, you can ignore the fight by running away (assuming you don't pursue) the physical damage has already been done. Also, you acknowledged that your analogy isn't perfect because you yourself realize that you don't have any foundation for a counter argument. Once again, there is no physical harm in ignoring a forum post, therefore the two scenarios cannot be compared. Think of the first poster as the fire and the responder as the fuel. Mix the two and what do you get?
Gimme fuel, gimme fire - obviously Metallica
Metallica haven't been half decent since SC Vanilla
metallica hasn't been decent since the NES came out
On May 29 2013 20:42 chisuri wrote: OK OK I shouldn't have typed the "worthless" word. Sigh I meant to say that those eSF players were inferior. And in fact they have been losing. But I guess you have to be semantic over one word to bash me and call me baiter or troll. About yesterday group, DRG is an established eSF. Fact. He lost his touch now, but he was one of the oldest and most decorated eSF. Ruin didn't do much, I admit. But right now, for eSF, being in the Up and Down is enough to be considered elite, or at least still performing. Who are above him in eSF? Did you count how many eSF were in code S before yesterday?
please keep going, you amuse me greatly
Contribute something instead of acting like a douchebag, can you? What is wrong in my post? Please elaborate. Or you just want to do name calling only?
lol
please stop posting, you're an embarrassment to the TL BW community. at least the other people who do this made second accounts to do it on.
you cant say that on account of the whole tl bw community, you are one person. i am one person. and i think that he is a good member of the BW community, and i think opterowns contributions are quite lacking
On May 29 2013 22:03 pylonsalad wrote: The core of the issue is that BW is dead and SC2 killed BW while being a worse game. I am a BW elitist but I watch SC2 now because BW is dead and there is nothing I can do about it because I would still rather watch Bisu and Stork struggle at a worse game rather than Sea and Shuttle stomp the same 6 b-teamers over and over again on Snipealot's stream. We follow our favourite players.
It's become obvious that Kespa players have taken over Code S and its for a very simple reason. Their coaching and practice develops better mechanics and better game sense. Its also obvious that Kespa players have taken over so quickly and completely because the skill ceiling is so low compared to BW. Yes, it is a different set of skills, but regardless, it is a lower skill ceiling. That is why younger players like Rain, Bogus, and Innovation have adapted better than the older pros. I don't think the old pros such as Stork, Jaedong, and even Fantasy will really be as good as they were in BW. So yes, we are a bit bitter. That's why it is satisfying to see Kespa players beat up ESF players and that's why some of the more hooliganish BW fans love going "KESPAAAAAAA!!!". What they are really saying is "BROODWARRRR!!!!" Its revenge, not against ESF, but against SC2.
I see no logical reason why sc2 being mechanically easier than BW would make old veterans worse and younger players better. If It's less mechanically demanding then you would expect the veterans who have been playing for the longest to be the best at playing smart. It's simply a shift in generations and it would have happened had BW not died.
thats if you assume mechanics degrade into the 21-22s, which could be a tough sell considering how well 60+year olds can play piano. im personally suspecting a big part could just be reaction times or something, but its strange to me how weve seen such a consistent decline with every player at that age in sc history. bogus, rain, soulkey or any newcomer wasnt making especially big inroads on the toppest guys while fantasy was peaking and playing magically and bisu still playing very well. fantasy or even really bisu sure wasnt anywher close to being surpassed by newcomers, and bogus claimed in a recent interview to not really have expected to ever reach this far in sc1
On May 29 2013 22:08 DrPandaPhD wrote: Well this thread was a gem. 10/10 would read again
In all seriousness though. It's easy to see KeSPA players rise because they are on KeSPA teams. However there are eSF players on the rise as well, I.E: Hurricane / Avenge who almost qualified for Code S themselves (still has a chance in ups and downs). But they are overshadowed by the KeSPA spammers and get very little attention sadly.
they rose because they were on kespa teams, they were always superior in raw gaming skill of all forms
Yes, it is a different set of skills, but regardless, it is a lower skill ceiling. That is why younger players like Rain, Bogus, and Innovation have adapted better than the older pros. I don't think the old pros such as Stork, Jaedong, and even Fantasy will really be as good as they were in BW.
How does that make sense? Skill ceiling is lower, so completely different players dominate the game like crazy? :D Judging by how monstrously Innovation dominate his non-mirrors, I would argue that the skill-ceiling is doing just fine.
On May 29 2013 20:42 chisuri wrote: OK OK I shouldn't have typed the "worthless" word. Sigh I meant to say that those eSF players were inferior. And in fact they have been losing. But I guess you have to be semantic over one word to bash me and call me baiter or troll. About yesterday group, DRG is an established eSF. Fact. He lost his touch now, but he was one of the oldest and most decorated eSF. Ruin didn't do much, I admit. But right now, for eSF, being in the Up and Down is enough to be considered elite, or at least still performing. Who are above him in eSF? Did you count how many eSF were in code S before yesterday?
please keep going, you amuse me greatly
Contribute something instead of acting like a douchebag, can you? What is wrong in my post? Please elaborate. Or you just want to do name calling only?
lol
please stop posting, you're an embarrassment to the TL BW community. at least the other people who do this made second accounts to do it on.
you cant say that on account of the whole tl bw community, you are one person. i am one person. and i think that he is a good member of the BW community, and i think opterowns contributions are quite lacking
On May 29 2013 22:03 pylonsalad wrote: The core of the issue is that BW is dead and SC2 killed BW while being a worse game. I am a BW elitist but I watch SC2 now because BW is dead and there is nothing I can do about it because I would still rather watch Bisu and Stork struggle at a worse game rather than Sea and Shuttle stomp the same 6 b-teamers over and over again on Snipealot's stream. We follow our favourite players.
It's become obvious that Kespa players have taken over Code S and its for a very simple reason. Their coaching and practice develops better mechanics and better game sense. Its also obvious that Kespa players have taken over so quickly and completely because the skill ceiling is so low compared to BW. Yes, it is a different set of skills, but regardless, it is a lower skill ceiling. That is why younger players like Rain, Bogus, and Innovation have adapted better than the older pros. I don't think the old pros such as Stork, Jaedong, and even Fantasy will really be as good as they were in BW. So yes, we are a bit bitter. That's why it is satisfying to see Kespa players beat up ESF players and that's why some of the more hooliganish BW fans love going "KESPAAAAAAA!!!". What they are really saying is "BROODWARRRR!!!!" Its revenge, not against ESF, but against SC2.
I see no logical reason why sc2 being mechanically easier than BW would make old veterans worse and younger players better. If It's less mechanically demanding then you would expect the veterans who have been playing for the longest to be the best at playing smart. It's simply a shift in generations and it would have happened had BW not died.
thats if you assume mechanics degrade into the 21-22s, which could be a tough sell considering how well 60+year olds can play piano. im personally suspecting a big part could just be reaction times or something, but its strange to me how weve seen such a consistent decline with every player at that age in sc history. bogus, rain, soulkey or any newcomer wasnt making especially big inroads on the toppest guys while fantasy was peaking and playing magically and bisu still playing very well. fantasy or even really bisu sure wasnt anywher close to being surpassed by newcomers, and bogus claimed in a recent interview to not really have expected to ever reach this far in sc1
On May 29 2013 22:08 DrPandaPhD wrote: Well this thread was a gem. 10/10 would read again
In all seriousness though. It's easy to see KeSPA players rise because they are on KeSPA teams. However there are eSF players on the rise as well, I.E: Hurricane / Avenge who almost qualified for Code S themselves (still has a chance in ups and downs). But they are overshadowed by the KeSPA spammers and get very little attention sadly.
they rose because they were on kespa teams, they were always superior in raw gaming skill of all forms
Yes, it is a different set of skills, but regardless, it is a lower skill ceiling. That is why younger players like Rain, Bogus, and Innovation have adapted better than the older pros. I don't think the old pros such as Stork, Jaedong, and even Fantasy will really be as good as they were in BW.
How does that make sense? Skill ceiling is lower, so completely different players dominate the game like crazy? :D Judging by how monstrously Innovation dominate his non-mirrors, I would argue that the skill-ceiling is doing just fine.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cSMDM.jpg)
