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On May 27 2013 06:34 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:31 KingOfNoodles wrote:
8 Zergs, 3 Terrans, 2 Protoss confimed for WCS Season 1 Finals already.
Really hope Ryung, HerO, CranK and aLive can make it through so we can get some more diverse matches instead of just a lot of ZvZs Hero and alicia get eachother in the RO8 so there's 100% chance of another protoss.
Yeah they are one of the two, the other confirmed Protoss is sOs.
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On May 27 2013 06:28 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:24 rename wrote:On May 27 2013 06:18 Destructicon wrote:
First, congratulations to Mvp for winning yet another championship and regaining some of his old strength!
However in this debate regarding region locking I am going to have to side with TB, CatZ and everyone else who has proposed region locking. The reason is simple, if you don't region lock then the local scene can't grow, because there is less of an incentive to work hard playing 12+ hours per day for 2 months when Koreans can come over for 1 month and win it all by brutally dismantling you.
The region locking is absolutely necessary, and as has been said, it will at least force some Koreans to relocate, which could raise the local level, or just stay in their region, which is still a good thing because we get to see the best games possible.
All this talk about people not caring if its EU or NA only is just bullshit, WCS EU last year was huge and had 120k viewers in a time when people where starting to really get tired of BL infestor and ZvZ. The production value of it was phenomenal and probably did contribute a lot to it, but I see no reason why ESL can't improve its own production value over time to reach that. The interest is there regarding the local scene.
Now yes, at the seasonal and grand finals, there is a large chance the EU and NA players will be brutally slain by the Koreans, this is going to happen in the short run, it is inevitable. It might take 1 year, 2 years, hell maybe 3 years, but eventually, if the scene consolidates in EU and NA, if more team houses are setup with the goal of producing talent, results and fostering competitiveness, if some Koreans move over and help with the coaching, then, several years from now we might have a EU and NA scene strong enough to compete with the best of the best from Korea.
But that won't happen the Koreans are allowed to invade for 1 or 2 months at a time and then move their money back to Korean, depleting the money that would otherwise have made it into the local scene and helped it. TB, CatZ and everyone else should watch what happened in League of Legends all-stars this weekend. Having segregation and salaries seems to have had zero positive effect on NA/EU talent. They still got their asses handed to them by koreans - and in a manner that to my untrained eyes seemed even more one-sided compared to current starcraft2 scene. Money does not help if your competition is tiers below korea scene. Weren't those teams a random mishmash of popular players from each region though? I heard the EU team especially didn't play well together at all and ended up dead last. Also the LCS and LoL professional scene overall is still so young.
Yeah, EU and SEA teams had big language problems and could not practice together enough, but NA/CN were on equal terms with KR's and their games against koreans reminded me of the time in MLG Providence where Losira was pitted against Ailuj on main stage.
And while the LoL professional scene is young, the regions started up on much more equal footing - but the higher level of competition in korea is giving them an advantage, that will only grow the skill gap unless something is changed.
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On May 27 2013 06:36 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:31 KingOfNoodles wrote:
8 Zergs, 3 Terrans, 2 Protoss confimed for WCS Season 1 Finals already.
Really hope Ryung, HerO, CranK and aLive can make it through so we can get some more diverse matches instead of just a lot of ZvZs What? Again? Who are the Zergs?
TLO, Dimaga, Stephano, Losira, Soulkey, Symbol, RorO and the winner of the ZvZ in WCS NA afaik
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On May 27 2013 06:36 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:31 KingOfNoodles wrote:
8 Zergs, 3 Terrans, 2 Protoss confimed for WCS Season 1 Finals already.
Really hope Ryung, HerO, CranK and aLive can make it through so we can get some more diverse matches instead of just a lot of ZvZs What? Again? Who are the Zergs?
From Korea:
Soulkey, Symbol, Losira, and RoRo
From EU:
Stephano, Dimaga, TLO
From AM:
Snute or Revival (they play in Ro8, so 1 will advance)
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4713 Posts
On May 27 2013 06:21 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:18 Destructicon wrote:
First, congratulations to Mvp for winning yet another championship and regaining some of his old strength!
However in this debate regarding region locking I am going to have to side with TB, CatZ and everyone else who has proposed region locking. The reason is simple, if you don't region lock then the local scene can't grow, because there is less of an incentive to work hard playing 12+ hours per day for 2 months when Koreans can come over for 1 month and win it all by brutally dismantling you.
The region locking is absolutely necessary, and as has been said, it will at least force some Koreans to relocate, which could raise the local level, or just stay in their region, which is still a good thing because we get to see the best games possible.
All this talk about people not caring if its EU or NA only is just bullshit, WCS EU last year was huge and had 120k viewers in a time when people where starting to really get tired of BL infestor and ZvZ. The production value of it was phenomenal and probably did contribute a lot to it, but I see no reason why ESL can't improve its own production value over time to reach that. The interest is there regarding the local scene.
Now yes, at the seasonal and grand finals, there is a large chance the EU and NA players will be brutally slain by the Koreans, this is going to happen in the short run, it is inevitable. It might take 1 year, 2 years, hell maybe 3 years, but eventually, if the scene consolidates in EU and NA, if more team houses are setup with the goal of producing talent, results and fostering competitiveness, if some Koreans move over and help with the coaching, then, several years from now we might have a EU and NA scene strong enough to compete with the best of the best from Korea.
But that won't happen the Koreans are allowed to invade for 1 or 2 months at a time and then move their money back to Korean, depleting the money that would otherwise have made it into the local scene and helped it. So are you suggesting people living in NA or Europe that happen to be of korean ethnicy will be banned because they are korean? Why not make a regional tournament for arians, latins, anglo-saxons, iberian if we are going to devide by ethnicy.
Good job nitpicking and completely missing the point. The point of the WCS, and the point of this discussion, was to grow the local scenes, have grassroots tournaments, create regional heroes find the best of the best and then have them clash vs the other regional and lastly continental champions.
We aren't dividing by ethnicity, but by nationality, I have no problem with ForGG representing France or EU considering he has been in Europe for 1 year already, but having Koreans just move in for 2 weeks or 1 month, win the money and then take it back to Korean completely goes against the purpose of the system, they are adding nothing to the local scene, while taking away from it, and killing tons of incentive to work hard and improve, destroying morale.
Again, fine job on turning my post into a racist debate and completely missing the point.
Edit: And again, I have nothing against the Koreans, personally I like to watch the highest level of gaming, so I prefer to watch GSL, GSTL, Proleague etc. I have nothing against Koreans winning independent tournaments like DH or NASL, or them winning in the WCS Grand Final, it proves they are the best of the best, the purpose of WCS Grand Final is to crown the best in the world. But the purpose of WCS NA and EU should be to find the best of EU and NA and crown the best players from those regions, and if you aren't living in EU or NA for at least 1 year, then you aren't fucking European or American.
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On May 27 2013 06:30 Wintex wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:28 Bagi wrote:On May 27 2013 06:24 rename wrote:On May 27 2013 06:18 Destructicon wrote:
First, congratulations to Mvp for winning yet another championship and regaining some of his old strength!
However in this debate regarding region locking I am going to have to side with TB, CatZ and everyone else who has proposed region locking. The reason is simple, if you don't region lock then the local scene can't grow, because there is less of an incentive to work hard playing 12+ hours per day for 2 months when Koreans can come over for 1 month and win it all by brutally dismantling you.
The region locking is absolutely necessary, and as has been said, it will at least force some Koreans to relocate, which could raise the local level, or just stay in their region, which is still a good thing because we get to see the best games possible.
All this talk about people not caring if its EU or NA only is just bullshit, WCS EU last year was huge and had 120k viewers in a time when people where starting to really get tired of BL infestor and ZvZ. The production value of it was phenomenal and probably did contribute a lot to it, but I see no reason why ESL can't improve its own production value over time to reach that. The interest is there regarding the local scene.
Now yes, at the seasonal and grand finals, there is a large chance the EU and NA players will be brutally slain by the Koreans, this is going to happen in the short run, it is inevitable. It might take 1 year, 2 years, hell maybe 3 years, but eventually, if the scene consolidates in EU and NA, if more team houses are setup with the goal of producing talent, results and fostering competitiveness, if some Koreans move over and help with the coaching, then, several years from now we might have a EU and NA scene strong enough to compete with the best of the best from Korea.
But that won't happen the Koreans are allowed to invade for 1 or 2 months at a time and then move their money back to Korean, depleting the money that would otherwise have made it into the local scene and helped it. TB, CatZ and everyone else should watch what happened in League of Legends all-stars this weekend. Having segregation and salaries seems to have had zero positive effect on NA/EU talent. They still got their asses handed to them by koreans - and in a manner that to my untrained eyes seemed even more one-sided compared to current starcraft2 scene. Money does not help if your competition is tiers below korea scene. Weren't those teams a random mishmash of popular players from each region though? I heard the EU team especially didn't play well together at all and ended up dead last. Also the LCS and LoL professional scene overall is still so young. I heard the NA one did bootcamping and more and still got decimated by Korea. Region locking is just making the starting point easier and opening up for domination in the world championships. TT
I'm sure they all had some practice but its still essentially a "showmatch" and it would be silly to read too much into it.
What comes to actual KR vs foreigner teams competing in LoL, I have no idea.
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A Korean champion in WCS EU is so ironic after everyone kept laughing at us for having a Korean champion.
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On May 27 2013 06:36 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:31 KingOfNoodles wrote:
8 Zergs, 3 Terrans, 2 Protoss confimed for WCS Season 1 Finals already.
Really hope Ryung, HerO, CranK and aLive can make it through so we can get some more diverse matches instead of just a lot of ZvZs What? Again? Who are the Zergs?
4in korea, 3in europe (SK/RoRo/Symbol/Losira + TLO/Stephano/dimaga), might ve a ZvZ in america and it's done.
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
oh wtf, i thought only the semis were today :E Do'h
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By the way, I believe this tournament concluded without showing even one ZvZ match.
Must be why it was so successful
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On May 27 2013 06:39 reDicE wrote:
A Korean champion in WCS EU is so ironic after everyone kept laughing at us for having a Korean champion.
Korean champs or at least high placing Koreans was expected in both regions.
I think the reason people laugh at WCS AM is just the overwhelming number of Koreans. I personally don't think its funny, just stupid.
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On May 27 2013 06:39 reDicE wrote:
A Korean champion in WCS EU is so ironic after everyone kept laughing at us for having a Korean champion.
Who knows, we might have a Norwegian champion, or an Australian champion, as unlikely as it is
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Slightly disappointed at the results but this was an amazing tournament. Even if the level of play was not quite as good, I was way more excited for this than the GSL playoffs and it didn't disappoint. Europe managed to hold its own, there were some amazing results from some players that were unexpected(TLO!). Topping it off with a really impressive final (minus the weird last game), I'm really excited for season 2 and the world championships.
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in what game was the awesome widow mine connection between stephano and forgg kaelaris tweeted about?
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On May 27 2013 06:42 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:39 reDicE wrote:
A Korean champion in WCS EU is so ironic after everyone kept laughing at us for having a Korean champion. Korean champs or at least high placing Koreans was expected in both regions. I think the reason people laugh at WCS AM is just the overwhelming number of Koreans. I personally don't think its funny, just stupid.
Honestly I didn't expect the Koreans in WCS EU to do well at all, this is another case of us doubting Mvp and him proving us wrong. Everyone was writing him off as a non factor around the ro32.
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On May 27 2013 06:37 Bagration wrote:From Korea: Soulkey, Symbol, Losira, and RoRo
Oh no, why only crappy patchzergs? I've never heard of them! They would never make it to a GSL finals!
:p
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On May 27 2013 06:38 Destructicon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:21 farnham wrote:On May 27 2013 06:18 Destructicon wrote:
First, congratulations to Mvp for winning yet another championship and regaining some of his old strength!
However in this debate regarding region locking I am going to have to side with TB, CatZ and everyone else who has proposed region locking. The reason is simple, if you don't region lock then the local scene can't grow, because there is less of an incentive to work hard playing 12+ hours per day for 2 months when Koreans can come over for 1 month and win it all by brutally dismantling you.
The region locking is absolutely necessary, and as has been said, it will at least force some Koreans to relocate, which could raise the local level, or just stay in their region, which is still a good thing because we get to see the best games possible.
All this talk about people not caring if its EU or NA only is just bullshit, WCS EU last year was huge and had 120k viewers in a time when people where starting to really get tired of BL infestor and ZvZ. The production value of it was phenomenal and probably did contribute a lot to it, but I see no reason why ESL can't improve its own production value over time to reach that. The interest is there regarding the local scene.
Now yes, at the seasonal and grand finals, there is a large chance the EU and NA players will be brutally slain by the Koreans, this is going to happen in the short run, it is inevitable. It might take 1 year, 2 years, hell maybe 3 years, but eventually, if the scene consolidates in EU and NA, if more team houses are setup with the goal of producing talent, results and fostering competitiveness, if some Koreans move over and help with the coaching, then, several years from now we might have a EU and NA scene strong enough to compete with the best of the best from Korea.
But that won't happen the Koreans are allowed to invade for 1 or 2 months at a time and then move their money back to Korean, depleting the money that would otherwise have made it into the local scene and helped it. So are you suggesting people living in NA or Europe that happen to be of korean ethnicy will be banned because they are korean? Why not make a regional tournament for arians, latins, anglo-saxons, iberian if we are going to devide by ethnicy. Good job nitpicking and completely missing the point. The point of the WCS, and the point of this discussion, was to grow the local scenes, have grassroots tournaments, create regional heroes find the best of the best and then have them clash vs the other regional and lastly continental champions. We aren't dividing by ethnicity, but by nationality, I have no problem with ForGG representing France or EU considering he has been in Europe for 1 year already, but having Koreans just move in for 2 weeks or 1 month, win the money and then take it back to Korean completely goes against the purpose of the system, they are adding nothing to the local scene, while taking away from it, and killing tons of incentive to work hard and improve, destroying morale. Again, fine job on turning my post into a racist debate and completely missing the point.
Having grassroots tournaments, and regional heros and all that was the point last year, and overall the result was quite bad bad - only WCS EU and WCS KR were good, globals sucked, and everything else was insignificant.
This year the idea seems to be to bring regular high level competition to every region.
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On May 27 2013 06:42 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:39 reDicE wrote:
A Korean champion in WCS EU is so ironic after everyone kept laughing at us for having a Korean champion. Who knows, we might have a Norwegian champion, or an Australian champion, as unlikely as it is
mOOnGLaDe already won me 30 euros and a sixpack Kronenbourg. He will win it!
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On May 27 2013 06:42 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:39 reDicE wrote:
A Korean champion in WCS EU is so ironic after everyone kept laughing at us for having a Korean champion. Who knows, we might have a Norwegian champion, or an Australian champion, as unlikely as it is
But we got the motherfucking King of Wings Mvp 
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On May 27 2013 06:43 Extenz wrote:
in what game was the awesome widow mine connection between stephano and forgg kaelaris tweeted about?
vs ForGG game 4.
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