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[WCS EU] Finals Day 2 Premier Season 1 2013 - Page 353

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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TheBarcid
Profile Joined December 2012
Canada44 Posts
May 26 2013 21:44 GMT
#7041
On May 27 2013 06:43 Extenz wrote:
in what game was the awesome widow mine connection between stephano and forgg kaelaris tweeted about?


Stephano/forgg game 4
Destructicon
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
4713 Posts
May 26 2013 21:44 GMT
#7042
On May 27 2013 06:43 Extenz wrote:
in what game was the awesome widow mine connection between stephano and forgg kaelaris tweeted about?


Game 4 on Neo Planet S, towards the end.
WriterNever give up, never surrender! https://www.youtube.com/user/DestructiconSC
Fran_
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1024 Posts
May 26 2013 21:44 GMT
#7043
On May 27 2013 06:38 Destructicon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2013 06:21 farnham wrote:
On May 27 2013 06:18 Destructicon wrote:
First, congratulations to Mvp for winning yet another championship and regaining some of his old strength!

However in this debate regarding region locking I am going to have to side with TB, CatZ and everyone else who has proposed region locking. The reason is simple, if you don't region lock then the local scene can't grow, because there is less of an incentive to work hard playing 12+ hours per day for 2 months when Koreans can come over for 1 month and win it all by brutally dismantling you.

The region locking is absolutely necessary, and as has been said, it will at least force some Koreans to relocate, which could raise the local level, or just stay in their region, which is still a good thing because we get to see the best games possible.

All this talk about people not caring if its EU or NA only is just bullshit, WCS EU last year was huge and had 120k viewers in a time when people where starting to really get tired of BL infestor and ZvZ. The production value of it was phenomenal and probably did contribute a lot to it, but I see no reason why ESL can't improve its own production value over time to reach that. The interest is there regarding the local scene.

Now yes, at the seasonal and grand finals, there is a large chance the EU and NA players will be brutally slain by the Koreans, this is going to happen in the short run, it is inevitable. It might take 1 year, 2 years, hell maybe 3 years, but eventually, if the scene consolidates in EU and NA, if more team houses are setup with the goal of producing talent, results and fostering competitiveness, if some Koreans move over and help with the coaching, then, several years from now we might have a EU and NA scene strong enough to compete with the best of the best from Korea.

But that won't happen the Koreans are allowed to invade for 1 or 2 months at a time and then move their money back to Korean, depleting the money that would otherwise have made it into the local scene and helped it.


So are you suggesting people living in NA or Europe that happen to be of korean ethnicy will be banned because they are korean?

Why not make a regional tournament for arians, latins, anglo-saxons, iberian if we are going to devide by ethnicy.


We aren't dividing by ethnicity, but by nationality, I have no problem with ForGG representing France or EU considering he has been in Europe for 1 year already, but having Koreans just move in for 2 weeks or 1 month, win the money and then take it back to Korean completely goes against the purpose of the system, they are adding nothing to the local scene, while taking away from it, and killing tons of incentive to work hard and improve, destroying morale.


You make a good point, but how would you propose to improve the situation? Passport requirements to join WCS in a certain region?
reDicE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1020 Posts
May 26 2013 21:45 GMT
#7044
On May 27 2013 06:42 Bagration wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2013 06:39 reDicE wrote:
A Korean champion in WCS EU is so ironic after everyone kept laughing at us for having a Korean champion.


Who knows, we might have a Norwegian champion, or an Australian champion, as unlikely as it is

Here's hoping for an Aussie
Extenz
Profile Joined October 2011
Italy822 Posts
May 26 2013 21:45 GMT
#7045
On May 27 2013 06:44 a3den wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2013 06:43 Extenz wrote:
in what game was the awesome widow mine connection between stephano and forgg kaelaris tweeted about?


vs ForGG game 4.


ty
Destructicon
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
4713 Posts
May 26 2013 21:47 GMT
#7046
On May 27 2013 06:44 Dodgin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2013 06:42 Bagi wrote:
On May 27 2013 06:39 reDicE wrote:
A Korean champion in WCS EU is so ironic after everyone kept laughing at us for having a Korean champion.

Korean champs or at least high placing Koreans was expected in both regions.

I think the reason people laugh at WCS AM is just the overwhelming number of Koreans. I personally don't think its funny, just stupid.


Honestly I didn't expect the Koreans in WCS EU to do well at all, this is another case of us doubting Mvp and him proving us wrong. Everyone was writing him off as a non factor around the ro32.


Mvp always seems to win when we count him out, its almost as if he feeds on our doubt and gains strength from it. I had some doubts as well because of his condition, but if he is now training as much as before, it is definitely showing.
WriterNever give up, never surrender! https://www.youtube.com/user/DestructiconSC
Lunchador
Profile Joined April 2010
United States776 Posts
May 26 2013 21:48 GMT
#7047
So, just got back home and realized I missed the whole day. And seeing absolutely NO DISCUSSION of the games in any of the last 5 pages, how were they? Or am I just fucking wasting my time here?
Defender of truth, justice, and noontime meals!
a3den
Profile Joined April 2012
704 Posts
May 26 2013 21:48 GMT
#7048
On May 27 2013 06:45 reDicE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2013 06:42 Bagration wrote:
On May 27 2013 06:39 reDicE wrote:
A Korean champion in WCS EU is so ironic after everyone kept laughing at us for having a Korean champion.


Who knows, we might have a Norwegian champion, or an Australian champion, as unlikely as it is

Here's hoping for an Aussie


At least one of them in the final would be quite great for the event.

More importantly, I'm surprised noone is talking about MLG because so far ESL buried them, they need to step up their game next week (the reddit backlash would just be ridiculous if they failed in some ways).
rename
Profile Joined February 2012
Estonia329 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-26 21:50:17
May 26 2013 21:49 GMT
#7049
On May 27 2013 06:38 Destructicon wrote:
Edit: And again, I have nothing against the Koreans, personally I like to watch the highest level of gaming, so I prefer to watch GSL, GSTL, Proleague etc. I have nothing against Koreans winning independent tournaments like DH or NASL, or them winning in the WCS Grand Final, it proves they are the best of the best, the purpose of WCS Grand Final is to crown the best in the world. But the purpose of WCS NA and EU should be to find the best of EU and NA and crown the best players from those regions, and if you aren't living in EU or NA for at least 1 year, then you aren't fucking European or American.


I also have nothing against regional tournaments, but GSL/GSTL/Proleague is in korea, are you saying every player must move to korea to participate in high level regular competitions?

And why exactly should the purpose of WCS NA/EU be to crown the best citizen of that region - we already have WCG for that + Shoutcraft America and perhaps some other tournaments i am not aware ( or havent been announced yet)
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
May 26 2013 21:52 GMT
#7050
On May 27 2013 06:48 Lunchador wrote:
So, just got back home and realized I missed the whole day. And seeing absolutely NO DISCUSSION of the games in any of the last 5 pages, how were they? Or am I just fucking wasting my time here?


The games were amazing, I'd recommend the entire finals and Mvp vs Dimaga game 2.
Fearest
Profile Joined September 2011
854 Posts
May 26 2013 21:52 GMT
#7051
People should just stop beating the dead horse about having koreans attending WCS Euro/America. Blizzard is doing it for a reason, and your opinion will not change theirs.

In fact, instead of posting you can write to the CEO of Blizzard in a formal letter explaining your ideas.

But you won't, it's easier to just whine.
a3den
Profile Joined April 2012
704 Posts
May 26 2013 21:53 GMT
#7052
On May 27 2013 06:49 rename wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2013 06:38 Destructicon wrote:
Edit: And again, I have nothing against the Koreans, personally I like to watch the highest level of gaming, so I prefer to watch GSL, GSTL, Proleague etc. I have nothing against Koreans winning independent tournaments like DH or NASL, or them winning in the WCS Grand Final, it proves they are the best of the best, the purpose of WCS Grand Final is to crown the best in the world. But the purpose of WCS NA and EU should be to find the best of EU and NA and crown the best players from those regions, and if you aren't living in EU or NA for at least 1 year, then you aren't fucking European or American.


I also have nothing against regional tournaments, but GSL/GSTL/Proleague is in korea, are you saying every player must move to korea to participate in high level regular competitions?

And why exactly should the purpose of WCS NA/EU be to crown the best citizen of that region - we already have WCG for that + Shoutcraft America and perhaps some other tournaments i am not aware ( or havent been announced yet)


I doubt WCG will run SC2 this year (because of WCS mostly). It's not a good tourney anyway.
Destructicon
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
4713 Posts
May 26 2013 21:54 GMT
#7053
On May 27 2013 06:52 Fearest wrote:
People should just stop beating the dead horse about having koreans attending WCS Euro/America. Blizzard is doing it for a reason, and your opinion will not change theirs.

In fact, instead of posting you can write to the CEO of Blizzard in a formal letter explaining your ideas.

But you won't, it's easier to just whine.


That's actually a fantastic idea, I'll take the time to do it tomorrow after I wake up.
WriterNever give up, never surrender! https://www.youtube.com/user/DestructiconSC
Lunchador
Profile Joined April 2010
United States776 Posts
May 26 2013 21:55 GMT
#7054
On May 27 2013 06:52 Dodgin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2013 06:48 Lunchador wrote:
So, just got back home and realized I missed the whole day. And seeing absolutely NO DISCUSSION of the games in any of the last 5 pages, how were they? Or am I just fucking wasting my time here?


The games were amazing, I'd recommend the entire finals and Mvp vs Dimaga game 2.


Thank you! Time to get caught up!
Defender of truth, justice, and noontime meals!
neptunusfisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
2286 Posts
May 26 2013 21:55 GMT
#7055
On May 27 2013 06:44 rename wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2013 06:38 Destructicon wrote:
On May 27 2013 06:21 farnham wrote:
On May 27 2013 06:18 Destructicon wrote:
First, congratulations to Mvp for winning yet another championship and regaining some of his old strength!

However in this debate regarding region locking I am going to have to side with TB, CatZ and everyone else who has proposed region locking. The reason is simple, if you don't region lock then the local scene can't grow, because there is less of an incentive to work hard playing 12+ hours per day for 2 months when Koreans can come over for 1 month and win it all by brutally dismantling you.

The region locking is absolutely necessary, and as has been said, it will at least force some Koreans to relocate, which could raise the local level, or just stay in their region, which is still a good thing because we get to see the best games possible.

All this talk about people not caring if its EU or NA only is just bullshit, WCS EU last year was huge and had 120k viewers in a time when people where starting to really get tired of BL infestor and ZvZ. The production value of it was phenomenal and probably did contribute a lot to it, but I see no reason why ESL can't improve its own production value over time to reach that. The interest is there regarding the local scene.

Now yes, at the seasonal and grand finals, there is a large chance the EU and NA players will be brutally slain by the Koreans, this is going to happen in the short run, it is inevitable. It might take 1 year, 2 years, hell maybe 3 years, but eventually, if the scene consolidates in EU and NA, if more team houses are setup with the goal of producing talent, results and fostering competitiveness, if some Koreans move over and help with the coaching, then, several years from now we might have a EU and NA scene strong enough to compete with the best of the best from Korea.

But that won't happen the Koreans are allowed to invade for 1 or 2 months at a time and then move their money back to Korean, depleting the money that would otherwise have made it into the local scene and helped it.


So are you suggesting people living in NA or Europe that happen to be of korean ethnicy will be banned because they are korean?

Why not make a regional tournament for arians, latins, anglo-saxons, iberian if we are going to devide by ethnicy.


Good job nitpicking and completely missing the point. The point of the WCS, and the point of this discussion, was to grow the local scenes, have grassroots tournaments, create regional heroes find the best of the best and then have them clash vs the other regional and lastly continental champions.
We aren't dividing by ethnicity, but by nationality, I have no problem with ForGG representing France or EU considering he has been in Europe for 1 year already, but having Koreans just move in for 2 weeks or 1 month, win the money and then take it back to Korean completely goes against the purpose of the system, they are adding nothing to the local scene, while taking away from it, and killing tons of incentive to work hard and improve, destroying morale.

Again, fine job on turning my post into a racist debate and completely missing the point.


Having grassroots tournaments, and regional heros and all that was the point last year, and overall the result was quite bad bad - only WCS EU and WCS KR were good, globals sucked, and everything else was insignificant.

This year the idea seems to be to bring regular high level competition to every region.


The great thing was how the qualifiers and the only period of protoss dominance ever coincided, putting all those Korean protoss dragons together in those brackets to dominate foreigners. Good times.

Best protoss bracket ever probably was Squirtle, Seed, Parting, Creator, Rain, hero and Hero all in the top ten at WCS Asia.
maru G5L pls
NeThZOR
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
South Africa7387 Posts
May 26 2013 21:56 GMT
#7056
I don't get caught up in the apparent "excitement" of TvZ anymore. The matchup is so lopsided these days.
SuperNova - 2015 | SKT1 fan for years | Dear, FlaSh, PartinG, Soulkey, Naniwa
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
May 26 2013 21:58 GMT
#7057
On May 27 2013 06:48 a3den wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2013 06:45 reDicE wrote:
On May 27 2013 06:42 Bagration wrote:
On May 27 2013 06:39 reDicE wrote:
A Korean champion in WCS EU is so ironic after everyone kept laughing at us for having a Korean champion.


Who knows, we might have a Norwegian champion, or an Australian champion, as unlikely as it is

Here's hoping for an Aussie


At least one of them in the final would be quite great for the event.

More importantly, I'm surprised noone is talking about MLG because so far ESL buried them, they need to step up their game next week (the reddit backlash would just be ridiculous if they failed in some ways).

Would be epic if they actually got a live audience, good casters and proved us doubters wrong.

I kinda feel they are gonna ride this out and focus on improving stuff for the next season. However if they stick to their guns and refuse to make any major changes, they're gonna keep getting 1/3 of EU viewership.
Lukeeze[zR]
Profile Joined February 2006
Switzerland6838 Posts
May 26 2013 21:58 GMT
#7058
On May 27 2013 06:56 NeThZOR wrote:
I don't get caught up in the apparent "excitement" of TvZ anymore. The matchup is so lopsided these days.


Arch rivals. No one loves protoss sadly :[
Terran & Potato Salad.
Fluffboll
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden516 Posts
May 26 2013 22:01 GMT
#7059
On May 27 2013 06:58 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2013 06:56 NeThZOR wrote:
I don't get caught up in the apparent "excitement" of TvZ anymore. The matchup is so lopsided these days.


Arch rivals. No one loves protoss sadly :[


Need to construct additional pylons, not enough food available to build love
You need to construct additional pylons.
ToKoreaWithLove
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Norway10161 Posts
May 26 2013 22:05 GMT
#7060
On May 27 2013 06:55 Lunchador wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2013 06:52 Dodgin wrote:
On May 27 2013 06:48 Lunchador wrote:
So, just got back home and realized I missed the whole day. And seeing absolutely NO DISCUSSION of the games in any of the last 5 pages, how were they? Or am I just fucking wasting my time here?


The games were amazing, I'd recommend the entire finals and Mvp vs Dimaga game 2.


Thank you! Time to get caught up!


Enjoy! Games were so good/entertaining that I kind of envy you for not having seen them yet
ModeratorFather of bunnies
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