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On May 27 2013 06:18 Destructicon wrote:
First, congratulations to Mvp for winning yet another championship and regaining some of his old strength!
However in this debate regarding region locking I am going to have to side with TB, CatZ and everyone else who has proposed region locking. The reason is simple, if you don't region lock then the local scene can't grow, because there is less of an incentive to work hard playing 12+ hours per day for 2 months when Koreans can come over for 1 month and win it all by brutally dismantling you.
The region locking is absolutely necessary, and as has been said, it will at least force some Koreans to relocate, which could raise the local level, or just stay in their region, which is still a good thing because we get to see the best games possible.
All this talk about people not caring if its EU or NA only is just bullshit, WCS EU last year was huge and had 120k viewers in a time when people where starting to really get tired of BL infestor and ZvZ. The production value of it was phenomenal and probably did contribute a lot to it, but I see no reason why ESL can't improve its own production value over time to reach that. The interest is there regarding the local scene.
Now yes, at the seasonal and grand finals, there is a large chance the EU and NA players will be brutally slain by the Koreans, this is going to happen in the short run, it is inevitable. It might take 1 year, 2 years, hell maybe 3 years, but eventually, if the scene consolidates in EU and NA, if more team houses are setup with the goal of producing talent, results and fostering competitiveness, if some Koreans move over and help with the coaching, then, several years from now we might have a EU and NA scene strong enough to compete with the best of the best from Korea.
But that won't happen the Koreans are allowed to invade for 1 or 2 months at a time and then move their money back to Korean, depleting the money that would otherwise have made it into the local scene and helped it.
So are you suggesting people living in NA or Europe that happen to be of korean ethnicy will be banned because they are korean?
Why not make a regional tournament for arians, latins, anglo-saxons, iberian if we are going to devide by ethnicy.
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Russian Federation601 Posts
Stephano is not Creolophus after all :D
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On May 27 2013 06:12 Benjamin99 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:09 ssxsilver wrote:On May 27 2013 06:06 Gr33d wrote:On May 27 2013 06:04 Benjamin99 wrote:
Seriously the The old BW team liquid legacy is like a cancer to the growth of starcraft 2 as a global esport Even though you are such a low minority but very loud
Could not say it better. If you want to watch koreans winning everything you could still watch: WCS KR (GSL) WCS Finals DH IEM Didn't IPL try the region-lock thing for S1 and failed horribly? And WCS EU had region-lock last season and it was a gigantic success!
Hah fair point. In any case, I'm not really sure where I stand on this WSC issue. On the one hand, I think having a weaker tournament in the long run isn't sustainable. Eventually, watching the best play triumphs any nationalistic feelings (just look at every single major sport). On the other, we have the Korean invasion in WSC NA, which I'm sure will struggle in ratings.
I don't see a lot of hate towards outliers like Polt in NA and Forgg in EU so maybe that's the direction Blizzard should take. Not absolute region-lock, but region-lock based off ladder which brings about regional growth.
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I like the actual format. but the ro32 must be offline, and the finals must be in a place that allows a larger crowd.
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On May 27 2013 06:22 xHQx wrote:
Stephano is not Creolophus after all :D
Remains to be seen, he isn't retired yet, there are still big tournaments he can win.
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Canada11261 Posts
Alright, we can stop the hyperbolic death of esports talk.
You may return to your regularly scheduled moaning and groaning at the end of tourney.
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On May 27 2013 06:18 Destructicon wrote:
First, congratulations to Mvp for winning yet another championship and regaining some of his old strength!
However in this debate regarding region locking I am going to have to side with TB, CatZ and everyone else who has proposed region locking. The reason is simple, if you don't region lock then the local scene can't grow, because there is less of an incentive to work hard playing 12+ hours per day for 2 months when Koreans can come over for 1 month and win it all by brutally dismantling you.
The region locking is absolutely necessary, and as has been said, it will at least force some Koreans to relocate, which could raise the local level, or just stay in their region, which is still a good thing because we get to see the best games possible.
All this talk about people not caring if its EU or NA only is just bullshit, WCS EU last year was huge and had 120k viewers in a time when people where starting to really get tired of BL infestor and ZvZ. The production value of it was phenomenal and probably did contribute a lot to it, but I see no reason why ESL can't improve its own production value over time to reach that. The interest is there regarding the local scene.
Now yes, at the seasonal and grand finals, there is a large chance the EU and NA players will be brutally slain by the Koreans, this is going to happen in the short run, it is inevitable. It might take 1 year, 2 years, hell maybe 3 years, but eventually, if the scene consolidates in EU and NA, if more team houses are setup with the goal of producing talent, results and fostering competitiveness, if some Koreans move over and help with the coaching, then, several years from now we might have a EU and NA scene strong enough to compete with the best of the best from Korea.
But that won't happen the Koreans are allowed to invade for 1 or 2 months at a time and then move their money back to Korean, depleting the money that would otherwise have made it into the local scene and helped it.
TB, CatZ and everyone else should watch what happened in League of Legends all-stars this weekend. Having segregation and salaries seems to have had zero positive effect on NA/EU talent. They still got their asses handed to them by koreans - and in a manner that to my untrained eyes seemed even more one-sided compared to current starcraft2 scene.
Money does not help if your competition is tiers below korea scene.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
I wish that this debate could be moved to a different thread
For any blizzard/ESL employee coming here, they will see this fucking shitty irrelevant discussion rather than praise for putting on a great event.
One of the best weekends of starcraft I have seen and incredible production. ESL should be proud of what they achieved. So hyped for Season 2
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On May 27 2013 06:24 rename wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:18 Destructicon wrote:
First, congratulations to Mvp for winning yet another championship and regaining some of his old strength!
However in this debate regarding region locking I am going to have to side with TB, CatZ and everyone else who has proposed region locking. The reason is simple, if you don't region lock then the local scene can't grow, because there is less of an incentive to work hard playing 12+ hours per day for 2 months when Koreans can come over for 1 month and win it all by brutally dismantling you.
The region locking is absolutely necessary, and as has been said, it will at least force some Koreans to relocate, which could raise the local level, or just stay in their region, which is still a good thing because we get to see the best games possible.
All this talk about people not caring if its EU or NA only is just bullshit, WCS EU last year was huge and had 120k viewers in a time when people where starting to really get tired of BL infestor and ZvZ. The production value of it was phenomenal and probably did contribute a lot to it, but I see no reason why ESL can't improve its own production value over time to reach that. The interest is there regarding the local scene.
Now yes, at the seasonal and grand finals, there is a large chance the EU and NA players will be brutally slain by the Koreans, this is going to happen in the short run, it is inevitable. It might take 1 year, 2 years, hell maybe 3 years, but eventually, if the scene consolidates in EU and NA, if more team houses are setup with the goal of producing talent, results and fostering competitiveness, if some Koreans move over and help with the coaching, then, several years from now we might have a EU and NA scene strong enough to compete with the best of the best from Korea.
But that won't happen the Koreans are allowed to invade for 1 or 2 months at a time and then move their money back to Korean, depleting the money that would otherwise have made it into the local scene and helped it. TB, CatZ and everyone else should watch what happened in League of Legends all-stars this weekend. Having segregation and salaries seems to have had zero positive effect on NA/EU talent. They still got their asses handed to them by koreans - and in a manner that to my untrained eyes seemed even more one-sided compared to current starcraft2 scene. Money does not help if your competition is tiers below korea scene.
Weren't those teams a random mishmash of popular players from each region though? I heard the EU team especially didn't play well together at all and ended up dead last.
Also the LCS and LoL professional scene overall is still so young.
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On May 27 2013 06:22 xHQx wrote:
Stephano is not Creolophus after all :D
that reference gave me a big smile
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Good job 4 time GSL champ
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On May 27 2013 06:28 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:24 rename wrote:On May 27 2013 06:18 Destructicon wrote:
First, congratulations to Mvp for winning yet another championship and regaining some of his old strength!
However in this debate regarding region locking I am going to have to side with TB, CatZ and everyone else who has proposed region locking. The reason is simple, if you don't region lock then the local scene can't grow, because there is less of an incentive to work hard playing 12+ hours per day for 2 months when Koreans can come over for 1 month and win it all by brutally dismantling you.
The region locking is absolutely necessary, and as has been said, it will at least force some Koreans to relocate, which could raise the local level, or just stay in their region, which is still a good thing because we get to see the best games possible.
All this talk about people not caring if its EU or NA only is just bullshit, WCS EU last year was huge and had 120k viewers in a time when people where starting to really get tired of BL infestor and ZvZ. The production value of it was phenomenal and probably did contribute a lot to it, but I see no reason why ESL can't improve its own production value over time to reach that. The interest is there regarding the local scene.
Now yes, at the seasonal and grand finals, there is a large chance the EU and NA players will be brutally slain by the Koreans, this is going to happen in the short run, it is inevitable. It might take 1 year, 2 years, hell maybe 3 years, but eventually, if the scene consolidates in EU and NA, if more team houses are setup with the goal of producing talent, results and fostering competitiveness, if some Koreans move over and help with the coaching, then, several years from now we might have a EU and NA scene strong enough to compete with the best of the best from Korea.
But that won't happen the Koreans are allowed to invade for 1 or 2 months at a time and then move their money back to Korean, depleting the money that would otherwise have made it into the local scene and helped it. TB, CatZ and everyone else should watch what happened in League of Legends all-stars this weekend. Having segregation and salaries seems to have had zero positive effect on NA/EU talent. They still got their asses handed to them by koreans - and in a manner that to my untrained eyes seemed even more one-sided compared to current starcraft2 scene. Money does not help if your competition is tiers below korea scene. Weren't those teams a random mishmash of popular players from each region though? I heard the EU team especially didn't play well together at all and ended up dead last. Also the LCS and LoL professional scene overall is still so young.
I heard the NA one did bootcamping and more and still got decimated by Korea. Region locking is just making the starting point easier and opening up for domination in the world championships. TT
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8 Zergs, 3 Terrans, 2 Protoss confimed for WCS Season 1 Finals already.
Really hope Ryung, HerO, CranK and aLive can make it through so we can get some more diverse matches instead of just a lot of ZvZs
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On May 27 2013 06:30 Wintex wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 06:28 Bagi wrote:On May 27 2013 06:24 rename wrote:On May 27 2013 06:18 Destructicon wrote:
First, congratulations to Mvp for winning yet another championship and regaining some of his old strength!
However in this debate regarding region locking I am going to have to side with TB, CatZ and everyone else who has proposed region locking. The reason is simple, if you don't region lock then the local scene can't grow, because there is less of an incentive to work hard playing 12+ hours per day for 2 months when Koreans can come over for 1 month and win it all by brutally dismantling you.
The region locking is absolutely necessary, and as has been said, it will at least force some Koreans to relocate, which could raise the local level, or just stay in their region, which is still a good thing because we get to see the best games possible.
All this talk about people not caring if its EU or NA only is just bullshit, WCS EU last year was huge and had 120k viewers in a time when people where starting to really get tired of BL infestor and ZvZ. The production value of it was phenomenal and probably did contribute a lot to it, but I see no reason why ESL can't improve its own production value over time to reach that. The interest is there regarding the local scene.
Now yes, at the seasonal and grand finals, there is a large chance the EU and NA players will be brutally slain by the Koreans, this is going to happen in the short run, it is inevitable. It might take 1 year, 2 years, hell maybe 3 years, but eventually, if the scene consolidates in EU and NA, if more team houses are setup with the goal of producing talent, results and fostering competitiveness, if some Koreans move over and help with the coaching, then, several years from now we might have a EU and NA scene strong enough to compete with the best of the best from Korea.
But that won't happen the Koreans are allowed to invade for 1 or 2 months at a time and then move their money back to Korean, depleting the money that would otherwise have made it into the local scene and helped it. TB, CatZ and everyone else should watch what happened in League of Legends all-stars this weekend. Having segregation and salaries seems to have had zero positive effect on NA/EU talent. They still got their asses handed to them by koreans - and in a manner that to my untrained eyes seemed even more one-sided compared to current starcraft2 scene. Money does not help if your competition is tiers below korea scene. Weren't those teams a random mishmash of popular players from each region though? I heard the EU team especially didn't play well together at all and ended up dead last. Also the LCS and LoL professional scene overall is still so young. I heard the NA one did bootcamping and more and still got decimated by Korea. Region locking is just making the starting point easier and opening up for domination in the world championships. TT
The Korean team was coached by the Mantoss, you cannot compete against that.
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this debate reminds me of the break dancing scene. except non korean break dancers didnt call for a ban on korean break dancers. instead foreign bboys/bgirls just learned to improve.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On May 27 2013 06:31 KingOfNoodles wrote:
8 Zergs, 3 Terrans, 2 Protoss confimed for WCS Season 1 Finals already.
Really hope Ryung, HerO, CranK and aLive can make it through so we can get some more diverse matches instead of just a lot of ZvZs
Hero and alicia get eachother in the RO8 so there's 100% chance of another protoss.
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On May 27 2013 06:31 KingOfNoodles wrote:
8 Zergs, 3 Terrans, 2 Protoss confimed for WCS Season 1 Finals already.
Really hope Ryung, HerO, CranK and aLive can make it through so we can get some more diverse matches instead of just a lot of ZvZs
Innovation will bulldoze through all the Zergs! He will make them wish for 7 range queens and instant fungals again! It's a new era, a new age, an age of change and innovation!
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Didn't get to see the whole thing,but what I saw was awesome. Props to MVP for beating the favorite.
Regarding region locking, EU and AM players play on the Korean server all the time. It's good training for them, because if you are at the top of the AM or EU ladder, there isn't any competition on the EU/AM ladder. Why should tourney play be any different, it's still a matter of improving for them. Quite frankly most AM and EU players don't have the resources to train like Koreans, so playing them is the next best thing.
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On May 27 2013 06:31 KingOfNoodles wrote:
8 Zergs, 3 Terrans, 2 Protoss confimed for WCS Season 1 Finals already.
Really hope Ryung, HerO, CranK and aLive can make it through so we can get some more diverse matches instead of just a lot of ZvZs
What? Again? Who are the Zergs?
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EPT
