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On May 16 2013 20:50 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 20:46 largehadroncollider wrote:On May 16 2013 20:41 Ramiz1989 wrote:On May 16 2013 20:38 Big J wrote:On May 16 2013 20:36 Orek wrote:
I'm pretty sure
love from random guys on TL <<<<<<<<<< money
for Symbol, so don't you worry. I hope he cheeses his way through Innovation. That would be so great. TL would explode in QQ. The world would burn. Would make me really happy  You just wouldn't be able to read all of the comments, for every comment you read, there would be 50 more. :D On May 16 2013 20:41 dddoushio wrote:On May 16 2013 20:38 Big J wrote:On May 16 2013 20:36 Orek wrote:
I'm pretty sure
love from random guys on TL <<<<<<<<<< money
for Symbol, so don't you worry. I hope he cheeses his way through Innovation. That would be so great. TL would explode in QQ. The world would burn. Would make me really happy he smashed roro after losing all his scvs he'll beat symbol only with his tongue and no monitor Currently, Symbol is MUCH better than RorO. Why do you say that when http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402337 I mean right now he is. Yes, in the end of WoL, RorO was really good, but he was sloppy since the transition to the HOTS, and never recovered. He was losing to some players that he shouldn't ever lose as GSL champion. He barely managed to get pass YoDa in his group, when YoDa was playing disturbingly bad. On the other hand, since HOTS, Symbol is looking great, had great transition, has won against a lot of good and known players, basically he is looking better than ever. HOTS also supports his aggressive playstyle a lot more than WoL ever did. Edit: Yes, "MUCH" was a bit of an exaggeration on my part, but he is still better imo.
wait till Symbol plays a contender. Hes super solid atm but the way he beat weaker opponents by doing the same build 500 times doesnt convince me
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On May 16 2013 21:07 Charlie.Sheen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 20:52 samurai80 wrote:On May 16 2013 20:31 Ramiz1989 wrote:On May 16 2013 20:30 Thrillz wrote:Poll: Worst Semis Series?Symbol vs Bomber (54) 68% INnoVation vs RorO (13) 16% sOs vs KangHo (9) 11% Soulkey vs PartinG (3) 4% 79 total votes Your vote: Worst Semis Series? (Vote): Symbol vs Bomber
(Vote): sOs vs KangHo
(Vote): INnoVation vs RorO
(Vote): Soulkey vs PartinG
Soulkey vs. Parting really shouldn't be there, all others are really arguable. ;D Innovation vs Roro by far the worst. As many pointed out, Innovation made the hellbat drops look so unfair it was horrible games. That's exactly why those are good games.
We don't have the same conception of a good game obviously.
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On May 16 2013 21:00 Markwerf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 20:34 DemigodcelpH wrote:On May 16 2013 20:29 NovemberstOrm wrote:
lol I don't know why so many people are hating on Symbol now. Because he's repeatedly abusing an all-in that will still kill you even if you prepare for it. The all-in has been around since WoL where siege tanks even needed siege tech first.. It only works now because terrans have their openings focussed so much on getting biomine too quickly
Well he didn't hold game 2 either. You can say he had siege tanks in bad position, but with blings I don't really think it matters much if they're behind a depo wall or not, bling roach allin is always hard to stop, you need to magically scout it and have multiple bunkers down and/or have rax wall.
Personally I don't understand why bomber wasn't opening reapers + hellions. So much stronger in deciphering what the zerg is actually doing, because without it, it's a nightmare imo(unless you get money scan).
Edit: And the reason why I think those were terrible games is that there was practically 0 micro involved. You could argue his build was fantastic, his decision making was good, but those skills just don't translate as well into a good game as good micro/multitasking/macro imo.
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France9034 Posts
Oh SHIT ! That's insane !
Bomber 
Missed the game (and the LR), was it a typical bombing ? Or just simple losses to superior play ?
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On May 16 2013 20:40 Wintex wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 20:39 Insoleet wrote:On May 16 2013 20:37 Wintex wrote:On May 16 2013 20:35 kubiks wrote:On May 16 2013 20:34 DemigodcelpH wrote:On May 16 2013 20:29 NovemberstOrm wrote:
lol I don't know why so many people are hating on Parting now. Because he's repeatedly abusing an all-in that will still kill you even if you prepare for it. That's mean. The guy can play macro game too. He just love to use his soul. He has showed extreme army control in the late game before. Why won't he use it? I don't know, but he sure as hell lost me when he started doing this. Because when terran are playing this greedy, its way too hard for zergs to win. Just watch first game of Roro vs Innovation and you'll understand. Terrans needs to calm down their greed, and start playing safer. I love seeing terran being punished like this. If terran plays safer it opens the path for greed for Zerg. Reverse roles initiated. I hate this.
Adding one or two tanks in their opening shouldnt be too hard for terrans. It's one minute delay on upgrades, but with mines, terran doesnt need to be too even with the zerg in upgrades anyway. And terran doesnt have as many upgrades to develop as zerg.
And mutalisks are delaying the 3 3 upgrades by a lot.
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On May 16 2013 21:09 samurai80 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 21:07 Charlie.Sheen wrote:On May 16 2013 20:52 samurai80 wrote:On May 16 2013 20:31 Ramiz1989 wrote:On May 16 2013 20:30 Thrillz wrote:Poll: Worst Semis Series?Symbol vs Bomber (54) 68% INnoVation vs RorO (13) 16% sOs vs KangHo (9) 11% Soulkey vs PartinG (3) 4% 79 total votes Your vote: Worst Semis Series? (Vote): Symbol vs Bomber
(Vote): sOs vs KangHo
(Vote): INnoVation vs RorO
(Vote): Soulkey vs PartinG
Soulkey vs. Parting really shouldn't be there, all others are really arguable. ;D Innovation vs Roro by far the worst. As many pointed out, Innovation made the hellbat drops look so unfair it was horrible games. That's exactly why those are good games. We don't have the same conception of a good game obviously.
You have the wrong one.
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shit, wanted a Parting x Inno finals... daamm you Parting.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On May 16 2013 21:12 Charlie.Sheen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 21:09 samurai80 wrote:On May 16 2013 21:07 Charlie.Sheen wrote:On May 16 2013 20:52 samurai80 wrote:On May 16 2013 20:31 Ramiz1989 wrote:On May 16 2013 20:30 Thrillz wrote:Poll: Worst Semis Series?Symbol vs Bomber (54) 68% INnoVation vs RorO (13) 16% sOs vs KangHo (9) 11% Soulkey vs PartinG (3) 4% 79 total votes Your vote: Worst Semis Series? (Vote): Symbol vs Bomber
(Vote): sOs vs KangHo
(Vote): INnoVation vs RorO
(Vote): Soulkey vs PartinG
Soulkey vs. Parting really shouldn't be there, all others are really arguable. ;D Innovation vs Roro by far the worst. As many pointed out, Innovation made the hellbat drops look so unfair it was horrible games. That's exactly why those are good games. We don't have the same conception of a good game obviously. You have the wrong one.
on the internet, YOU are wrong
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TLADT24920 Posts
hmm I figured Innovation might move on but 3-0d Roro? :O Is Roro a worse player than he was at end of WoL or is it that Innovation is a formidable opponent that just outplayed him? I was expecting 3-2 or so and for Roro to at least take a game off Innovation. As for Bomber and Symbol, well, I was hoping Bomber would win but alas he thought otherwise ><
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On May 16 2013 21:15 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 21:12 Charlie.Sheen wrote:On May 16 2013 21:09 samurai80 wrote:On May 16 2013 21:07 Charlie.Sheen wrote:On May 16 2013 20:52 samurai80 wrote:On May 16 2013 20:31 Ramiz1989 wrote:On May 16 2013 20:30 Thrillz wrote:Poll: Worst Semis Series?Symbol vs Bomber (54) 68% INnoVation vs RorO (13) 16% sOs vs KangHo (9) 11% Soulkey vs PartinG (3) 4% 79 total votes Your vote: Worst Semis Series? (Vote): Symbol vs Bomber
(Vote): sOs vs KangHo
(Vote): INnoVation vs RorO
(Vote): Soulkey vs PartinG
Soulkey vs. Parting really shouldn't be there, all others are really arguable. ;D Innovation vs Roro by far the worst. As many pointed out, Innovation made the hellbat drops look so unfair it was horrible games. That's exactly why those are good games. We don't have the same conception of a good game obviously. You have the wrong one. on the internet, YOU are wrong
wrong on what?
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TLADT24920 Posts
On May 16 2013 21:15 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 21:12 Charlie.Sheen wrote:On May 16 2013 21:09 samurai80 wrote:On May 16 2013 21:07 Charlie.Sheen wrote:On May 16 2013 20:52 samurai80 wrote:On May 16 2013 20:31 Ramiz1989 wrote:On May 16 2013 20:30 Thrillz wrote:Poll: Worst Semis Series?Symbol vs Bomber (54) 68% INnoVation vs RorO (13) 16% sOs vs KangHo (9) 11% Soulkey vs PartinG (3) 4% 79 total votes Your vote: Worst Semis Series? (Vote): Symbol vs Bomber
(Vote): sOs vs KangHo
(Vote): INnoVation vs RorO
(Vote): Soulkey vs PartinG
Soulkey vs. Parting really shouldn't be there, all others are really arguable. ;D Innovation vs Roro by far the worst. As many pointed out, Innovation made the hellbat drops look so unfair it was horrible games. That's exactly why those are good games. We don't have the same conception of a good game obviously. You have the wrong one. on the internet, YOU are wrong
on the internet, HE is right 
/devil's advocate
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On May 16 2013 21:09 samurai80 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 21:07 Charlie.Sheen wrote:On May 16 2013 20:52 samurai80 wrote:On May 16 2013 20:31 Ramiz1989 wrote:On May 16 2013 20:30 Thrillz wrote:Poll: Worst Semis Series?Symbol vs Bomber (54) 68% INnoVation vs RorO (13) 16% sOs vs KangHo (9) 11% Soulkey vs PartinG (3) 4% 79 total votes Your vote: Worst Semis Series? (Vote): Symbol vs Bomber
(Vote): sOs vs KangHo
(Vote): INnoVation vs RorO
(Vote): Soulkey vs PartinG
Soulkey vs. Parting really shouldn't be there, all others are really arguable. ;D Innovation vs Roro by far the worst. As many pointed out, Innovation made the hellbat drops look so unfair it was horrible games. That's exactly why those are good games. We don't have the same conception of a good game obviously.
Well, if you're praying for hellbats to be nerfed, then it's a pretty good example to support your cause, and therefore a good game? :D
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On May 16 2013 21:17 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 21:15 opterown wrote:On May 16 2013 21:12 Charlie.Sheen wrote:On May 16 2013 21:09 samurai80 wrote:On May 16 2013 21:07 Charlie.Sheen wrote:On May 16 2013 20:52 samurai80 wrote:On May 16 2013 20:31 Ramiz1989 wrote:On May 16 2013 20:30 Thrillz wrote:Poll: Worst Semis Series?Symbol vs Bomber (54) 68% INnoVation vs RorO (13) 16% sOs vs KangHo (9) 11% Soulkey vs PartinG (3) 4% 79 total votes Your vote: Worst Semis Series? (Vote): Symbol vs Bomber
(Vote): sOs vs KangHo
(Vote): INnoVation vs RorO
(Vote): Soulkey vs PartinG
Soulkey vs. Parting really shouldn't be there, all others are really arguable. ;D Innovation vs Roro by far the worst. As many pointed out, Innovation made the hellbat drops look so unfair it was horrible games. That's exactly why those are good games. We don't have the same conception of a good game obviously. You have the wrong one. on the internet, YOU are wrong on the internet, HE is right /devil's advocate
Thanks for the compliment.
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On May 16 2013 21:09 Arceus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 20:50 Ramiz1989 wrote:On May 16 2013 20:46 largehadroncollider wrote:On May 16 2013 20:41 Ramiz1989 wrote:On May 16 2013 20:38 Big J wrote:On May 16 2013 20:36 Orek wrote:
I'm pretty sure
love from random guys on TL <<<<<<<<<< money
for Symbol, so don't you worry. I hope he cheeses his way through Innovation. That would be so great. TL would explode in QQ. The world would burn. Would make me really happy You just wouldn't be able to read all of the comments, for every comment you read, there would be 50 more. :D On May 16 2013 20:41 dddoushio wrote:On May 16 2013 20:38 Big J wrote:On May 16 2013 20:36 Orek wrote:
I'm pretty sure
love from random guys on TL <<<<<<<<<< money
for Symbol, so don't you worry. I hope he cheeses his way through Innovation. That would be so great. TL would explode in QQ. The world would burn. Would make me really happy he smashed roro after losing all his scvs he'll beat symbol only with his tongue and no monitor Currently, Symbol is MUCH better than RorO. Why do you say that when http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402337 I mean right now he is. Yes, in the end of WoL, RorO was really good, but he was sloppy since the transition to the HOTS, and never recovered. He was losing to some players that he shouldn't ever lose as GSL champion. He barely managed to get pass YoDa in his group, when YoDa was playing disturbingly bad. On the other hand, since HOTS, Symbol is looking great, had great transition, has won against a lot of good and known players, basically he is looking better than ever. HOTS also supports his aggressive playstyle a lot more than WoL ever did. Edit: Yes, "MUCH" was a bit of an exaggeration on my part, but he is still better imo. wait till Symbol plays a contender. Hes super solid atm but the way he beat weaker opponents by doing the same build 500 times doesnt convince me
Well, I don't think that he has much of a chance against Innovation. In GSTL he has shown that he is great at macro games too, and him losing to Innovation won't really prove anything since Innovation has the best TvZ currently in my opinion and Symbol isn't even the best Zerg player right now.
We will see though, most of the time Innovation just destroys Zerg players in normal macro game with the drop play, he didn't really fight players that are good with all-ins or cheese like Symbol is.
On May 16 2013 21:16 BigFan wrote:
hmm I figured Innovation might move on but 3-0d Roro? :O Is Roro a worse player than he was at end of WoL or is it that Innovation is a formidable opponent that just outplayed him? I was expecting 3-2 or so and for Roro to at least take a game off Innovation. As for Bomber and Symbol, well, I was hoping Bomber would win but alas he thought otherwise ><
Both. If you had watched RorO's games in HotS, you would know that he played much better in WoL. And Innovation is just... Innovation. The only guy that had a chance against the Zerg players in WoL, you know he is just going to destroy everyone now in HotS, when balance is actually pretty good.
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On May 16 2013 21:10 Insoleet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 20:40 Wintex wrote:On May 16 2013 20:39 Insoleet wrote:On May 16 2013 20:37 Wintex wrote:On May 16 2013 20:35 kubiks wrote:On May 16 2013 20:34 DemigodcelpH wrote:On May 16 2013 20:29 NovemberstOrm wrote:
lol I don't know why so many people are hating on Parting now. Because he's repeatedly abusing an all-in that will still kill you even if you prepare for it. That's mean. The guy can play macro game too. He just love to use his soul. He has showed extreme army control in the late game before. Why won't he use it? I don't know, but he sure as hell lost me when he started doing this. Because when terran are playing this greedy, its way too hard for zergs to win. Just watch first game of Roro vs Innovation and you'll understand. Terrans needs to calm down their greed, and start playing safer. I love seeing terran being punished like this. If terran plays safer it opens the path for greed for Zerg. Reverse roles initiated. I hate this. Adding one or two tanks in their opening shouldnt be too hard for terrans. It's one minute delay on upgrades, but with mines, terran doesnt need to be too even with the zerg in upgrades anyway. And terran doesnt have as many upgrades to develop as zerg. And mutalisks are delaying the 3 3 upgrades by a lot.
But widow mines have gone down in awesomeness when playing versus top level zergs. I find the upgrades to almost be needed. Further build refinement might show that some tanks will be more useful, but one or two tanks are easily dealt with when you have that many roaches tbh. I would argue that you need approx 3-4. Maybe some types of all ins will be possible to do with the tanks if the Zerg goes too eco-focused.
Mines vs great professional zergs really aren't being nearly as effective, and banes deal pretty well with then, surprisingly. Of course it's not really the best trade.
Bomber didn't play that well, but for the enjoyment of the games, I really dislike the way roach baneling combo works. Maybe marauders and medivac rushing will be a new way to try and deal with it?
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On May 16 2013 21:24 Wintex wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 21:10 Insoleet wrote:On May 16 2013 20:40 Wintex wrote:On May 16 2013 20:39 Insoleet wrote:On May 16 2013 20:37 Wintex wrote:On May 16 2013 20:35 kubiks wrote:On May 16 2013 20:34 DemigodcelpH wrote:On May 16 2013 20:29 NovemberstOrm wrote:
lol I don't know why so many people are hating on Parting now. Because he's repeatedly abusing an all-in that will still kill you even if you prepare for it. That's mean. The guy can play macro game too. He just love to use his soul. He has showed extreme army control in the late game before. Why won't he use it? I don't know, but he sure as hell lost me when he started doing this. Because when terran are playing this greedy, its way too hard for zergs to win. Just watch first game of Roro vs Innovation and you'll understand. Terrans needs to calm down their greed, and start playing safer. I love seeing terran being punished like this. If terran plays safer it opens the path for greed for Zerg. Reverse roles initiated. I hate this. Adding one or two tanks in their opening shouldnt be too hard for terrans. It's one minute delay on upgrades, but with mines, terran doesnt need to be too even with the zerg in upgrades anyway. And terran doesnt have as many upgrades to develop as zerg. And mutalisks are delaying the 3 3 upgrades by a lot. But widow mines have gone down in awesomeness when playing versus top level zergs. I find the upgrades to almost be needed. Further build refinement might show that some tanks will be more useful, but one or two tanks are easily dealt with when you have that many roaches tbh. I would argue that you need approx 3-4. Maybe some types of all ins will be possible to do with the tanks if the Zerg goes too eco-focused. Mines vs great professional zergs really aren't being nearly as effective, and banes deal pretty well with then, surprisingly. Of course it's not really the best trade. Bomber didn't play that well, but for the enjoyment of the games, I really dislike the way roach baneling combo works. Maybe marauders and medivac rushing will be a new way to try and deal with it?
Bomber shoulda just done Polt style Marauder-Hellion allin lolol. Funny thing is, Polt faced roach bane in like all of his games in his WCS games and stopped them all, then again, it is against NA players.
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On May 16 2013 21:24 Wintex wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 21:10 Insoleet wrote:On May 16 2013 20:40 Wintex wrote:On May 16 2013 20:39 Insoleet wrote:On May 16 2013 20:37 Wintex wrote:On May 16 2013 20:35 kubiks wrote:On May 16 2013 20:34 DemigodcelpH wrote:On May 16 2013 20:29 NovemberstOrm wrote:
lol I don't know why so many people are hating on Parting now. Because he's repeatedly abusing an all-in that will still kill you even if you prepare for it. That's mean. The guy can play macro game too. He just love to use his soul. He has showed extreme army control in the late game before. Why won't he use it? I don't know, but he sure as hell lost me when he started doing this. Because when terran are playing this greedy, its way too hard for zergs to win. Just watch first game of Roro vs Innovation and you'll understand. Terrans needs to calm down their greed, and start playing safer. I love seeing terran being punished like this. If terran plays safer it opens the path for greed for Zerg. Reverse roles initiated. I hate this. Adding one or two tanks in their opening shouldnt be too hard for terrans. It's one minute delay on upgrades, but with mines, terran doesnt need to be too even with the zerg in upgrades anyway. And terran doesnt have as many upgrades to develop as zerg. And mutalisks are delaying the 3 3 upgrades by a lot. But widow mines have gone down in awesomeness when playing versus top level zergs. I find the upgrades to almost be needed. Further build refinement might show that some tanks will be more useful, but one or two tanks are easily dealt with when you have that many roaches tbh. I would argue that you need approx 3-4. Maybe some types of all ins will be possible to do with the tanks if the Zerg goes too eco-focused. Mines vs great professional zergs really aren't being nearly as effective, and banes deal pretty well with then, surprisingly. Of course it's not really the best trade. Bomber didn't play that well, but for the enjoyment of the games, I really dislike the way roach baneling combo works. Maybe marauders and medivac rushing will be a new way to try and deal with it?
Game 1 Roro vs Innovation, the supplies were even until Roro tried to counterattack through the upper side and 2mines killed 20supply of muta/ling (170to150 supply after that), which triggered Innovations winning push. Game 2 was a cheese were it didn't get to a solid stage with a lot of mine usage (and those that he used triggered Roro to run lings into marines, but he couldn't set them off), game 3 were both of them cheesing and it not getting to mines. Then all of the Bomber vs Symbol games were decided by cheeses... (so no conclusion about mines really can be drawn about most of those games)
(no whine... but saying that mines have gone down in awesomeness when innovations wins against the two best zergs - Life, Roro both on daybreak - were a result of good minegames is really selling them under their worth)
Edit: Also Happy vs VortiX yesterday, Happy was the first proTerran I have seen who simply unburrowed mines against those small ling attacks that tried to trigger mines (after purchasing the upgrade to reburrow them quickly of course).
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Poland3747 Posts
Zerg and Protoss these days are fun, but terrans are way too drop-oriented. I blame medivacs for this.
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I can't see any Zergs beating Innovation this year, at least in a BO5 or BO7, but I think sOs could pull off some wins.
The problem though is that Innovation has a fuck-ton of builds, and uses different ones every time and executes them inch perfect. How the hell are you supposed to prepare for a guy like that?
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On May 16 2013 21:10 Insoleet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 20:40 Wintex wrote:On May 16 2013 20:39 Insoleet wrote:On May 16 2013 20:37 Wintex wrote:On May 16 2013 20:35 kubiks wrote:On May 16 2013 20:34 DemigodcelpH wrote:On May 16 2013 20:29 NovemberstOrm wrote:
lol I don't know why so many people are hating on Parting now. Because he's repeatedly abusing an all-in that will still kill you even if you prepare for it. That's mean. The guy can play macro game too. He just love to use his soul. He has showed extreme army control in the late game before. Why won't he use it? I don't know, but he sure as hell lost me when he started doing this. Because when terran are playing this greedy, its way too hard for zergs to win. Just watch first game of Roro vs Innovation and you'll understand. Terrans needs to calm down their greed, and start playing safer. I love seeing terran being punished like this. If terran plays safer it opens the path for greed for Zerg. Reverse roles initiated. I hate this. Adding one or two tanks in their opening shouldnt be too hard for terrans. It's one minute delay on upgrades, but with mines, terran doesnt need to be too even with the zerg in upgrades anyway. And terran doesnt have as many upgrades to develop as zerg. And mutalisks are delaying the 3 3 upgrades by a lot. The right answer is Innovation one imo, wait for the roaches to be half map then drop hellbats. Either the roaches come back and the terran can defend, or the zerg keep pushing and the hellbats do a lot of damage then the zerg can't reinforce as he has to pump roaches to defend so the bust will do damage but can be defended.
Bomber dropped his hellbats before the push happened so all the roaches were here to defend, which was dumb. At least he had to see that he couldn't do damage and save the hellbats and medivacs.
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EPT
