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On May 16 2013 21:31 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 21:24 Wintex wrote:On May 16 2013 21:10 Insoleet wrote:On May 16 2013 20:40 Wintex wrote:On May 16 2013 20:39 Insoleet wrote:On May 16 2013 20:37 Wintex wrote:On May 16 2013 20:35 kubiks wrote:On May 16 2013 20:34 DemigodcelpH wrote:On May 16 2013 20:29 NovemberstOrm wrote:
lol I don't know why so many people are hating on Parting now. Because he's repeatedly abusing an all-in that will still kill you even if you prepare for it. That's mean. The guy can play macro game too. He just love to use his soul. He has showed extreme army control in the late game before. Why won't he use it? I don't know, but he sure as hell lost me when he started doing this. Because when terran are playing this greedy, its way too hard for zergs to win. Just watch first game of Roro vs Innovation and you'll understand. Terrans needs to calm down their greed, and start playing safer. I love seeing terran being punished like this. If terran plays safer it opens the path for greed for Zerg. Reverse roles initiated. I hate this. Adding one or two tanks in their opening shouldnt be too hard for terrans. It's one minute delay on upgrades, but with mines, terran doesnt need to be too even with the zerg in upgrades anyway. And terran doesnt have as many upgrades to develop as zerg. And mutalisks are delaying the 3 3 upgrades by a lot. But widow mines have gone down in awesomeness when playing versus top level zergs. I find the upgrades to almost be needed. Further build refinement might show that some tanks will be more useful, but one or two tanks are easily dealt with when you have that many roaches tbh. I would argue that you need approx 3-4. Maybe some types of all ins will be possible to do with the tanks if the Zerg goes too eco-focused. Mines vs great professional zergs really aren't being nearly as effective, and banes deal pretty well with then, surprisingly. Of course it's not really the best trade. Bomber didn't play that well, but for the enjoyment of the games, I really dislike the way roach baneling combo works. Maybe marauders and medivac rushing will be a new way to try and deal with it? Edit: Also Happy vs VortiX yesterday, Happy was the first proTerran I have seen who simply unburrowed mines against those small ling attacks that tried to trigger mines (after purchasing the upgrade to reburrow them quickly of course).
As far as I know, Lucifron is the one that started to do it, Happy is just able to execute it perfect due to insane mechanics. And yes, I do think that most Terran players have a lot of learning to do with widow mines, both in placement, target firing and uproot/burrow.
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Poland3759 Posts
On May 16 2013 21:36 Longtimer wrote:
I can't see any Zergs beating Innovation this year, at least in a BO5 or BO7, but I think sOs could pull off some wins.
The problem though is that Innovation has a fuck-ton of builds, and uses different ones every time and executes them inch perfect. How the hell are you supposed to prepare for a guy like that?
Buy Paper Handkerchiefs.
Lie Down.
Try Not To Cry.
Cry A Lot.
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On May 16 2013 21:36 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 21:10 Insoleet wrote:On May 16 2013 20:40 Wintex wrote:On May 16 2013 20:39 Insoleet wrote:On May 16 2013 20:37 Wintex wrote:On May 16 2013 20:35 kubiks wrote:On May 16 2013 20:34 DemigodcelpH wrote:On May 16 2013 20:29 NovemberstOrm wrote:
lol I don't know why so many people are hating on Parting now. Because he's repeatedly abusing an all-in that will still kill you even if you prepare for it. That's mean. The guy can play macro game too. He just love to use his soul. He has showed extreme army control in the late game before. Why won't he use it? I don't know, but he sure as hell lost me when he started doing this. Because when terran are playing this greedy, its way too hard for zergs to win. Just watch first game of Roro vs Innovation and you'll understand. Terrans needs to calm down their greed, and start playing safer. I love seeing terran being punished like this. If terran plays safer it opens the path for greed for Zerg. Reverse roles initiated. I hate this. Adding one or two tanks in their opening shouldnt be too hard for terrans. It's one minute delay on upgrades, but with mines, terran doesnt need to be too even with the zerg in upgrades anyway. And terran doesnt have as many upgrades to develop as zerg. And mutalisks are delaying the 3 3 upgrades by a lot. The right answer is Innovation one imo, wait for the roaches to be half map then drop hellbats. Either the roaches come back and the terran can defend, or the zerg keep pushing and the hellbats do a lot of damage then the zerg can't reinforce as he has to pump roaches to defend so the bust will do damage but can be defended. Bomber dropped his hellbats before the push happened so all the roaches were here to defend, which was dumb. At least he had to see that he couldn't do damage and save the hellbats and medivacs.
Read the first line of the whole quoted stuff. Guess who ninja edited it ? 
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On May 16 2013 21:09 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 21:00 Markwerf wrote:On May 16 2013 20:34 DemigodcelpH wrote:On May 16 2013 20:29 NovemberstOrm wrote:
lol I don't know why so many people are hating on Symbol now. Because he's repeatedly abusing an all-in that will still kill you even if you prepare for it. The all-in has been around since WoL where siege tanks even needed siege tech first.. It only works now because terrans have their openings focussed so much on getting biomine too quickly Well he didn't hold game 2 either. You can say he had siege tanks in bad position, but with blings I don't really think it matters much if they're behind a depo wall or not, bling roach allin is always hard to stop, you need to magically scout it and have multiple bunkers down and/or have rax wall. Personally I don't understand why bomber wasn't opening reapers + hellions. So much stronger in deciphering what the zerg is actually doing, because without it, it's a nightmare imo(unless you get money scan). Edit: And the reason why I think those were terrible games is that there was practically 0 micro involved. You could argue his build was fantastic, his decision making was good, but those skills just don't translate as well into a good game as good micro/multitasking/macro imo.
I'm pretty sure there was micro. If you watched the last game, he was focus firing widow mines with roaches, splitting lings and banelings to go for different groups of enemy units. Granted, zerg micro isn't always very flashy like terran or protoss micro is, but that's mainly due to the limitation of the units, not the player's lack of attention. Sometimes it's actually less efficient if you micro your units too much.
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On May 16 2013 21:24 Wintex wrote:
Mines vs great professional zergs really aren't being nearly as effective, and banes deal pretty well with then, surprisingly. Of course it's not really the best trade.
Well, it's an opinion. As I saw in GSL Flash 2-0 Soulkey with it, Life getting 2-0 by Innovation, Roro getting 3-0 by Innovation, and those are the three best Zerg in the world, I'm not very much convinced. To all people blaming Symbol for doing so many all in, I'm wondering, how many games have you seen in GSL where zerg actually win a macro game ZvT against bio-mines where he didn't had a big advantage early in the game? I'm sure there is, but I don't think there is a lot of them. Symbol is doing what he feels is needed to win the game, same was Parting doing with his immortal sentry all in back in the WoL times, I'm pretty sure that if he thought that macro game were a reliable option he would prefer that instead of gimmicking play.
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On May 16 2013 21:31 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 21:24 Wintex wrote:On May 16 2013 21:10 Insoleet wrote:On May 16 2013 20:40 Wintex wrote:On May 16 2013 20:39 Insoleet wrote:On May 16 2013 20:37 Wintex wrote:On May 16 2013 20:35 kubiks wrote:On May 16 2013 20:34 DemigodcelpH wrote:On May 16 2013 20:29 NovemberstOrm wrote:
lol I don't know why so many people are hating on Parting now. Because he's repeatedly abusing an all-in that will still kill you even if you prepare for it. That's mean. The guy can play macro game too. He just love to use his soul. He has showed extreme army control in the late game before. Why won't he use it? I don't know, but he sure as hell lost me when he started doing this. Because when terran are playing this greedy, its way too hard for zergs to win. Just watch first game of Roro vs Innovation and you'll understand. Terrans needs to calm down their greed, and start playing safer. I love seeing terran being punished like this. If terran plays safer it opens the path for greed for Zerg. Reverse roles initiated. I hate this. Adding one or two tanks in their opening shouldnt be too hard for terrans. It's one minute delay on upgrades, but with mines, terran doesnt need to be too even with the zerg in upgrades anyway. And terran doesnt have as many upgrades to develop as zerg. And mutalisks are delaying the 3 3 upgrades by a lot. But widow mines have gone down in awesomeness when playing versus top level zergs. I find the upgrades to almost be needed. Further build refinement might show that some tanks will be more useful, but one or two tanks are easily dealt with when you have that many roaches tbh. I would argue that you need approx 3-4. Maybe some types of all ins will be possible to do with the tanks if the Zerg goes too eco-focused. Mines vs great professional zergs really aren't being nearly as effective, and banes deal pretty well with then, surprisingly. Of course it's not really the best trade. Bomber didn't play that well, but for the enjoyment of the games, I really dislike the way roach baneling combo works. Maybe marauders and medivac rushing will be a new way to try and deal with it? + Show Spoiler +
Game 1 Roro vs Innovation, the supplies were even until Roro tried to counterattack through the upper side and 2mines killed 20supply of muta/ling (170to150 supply after that), which triggered Innovations winning push. Game 2 was a cheese were it didn't get to a solid stage with a lot of mine usage (and those that he used triggered Roro to run lings into marines, but he couldn't set them off), game 3 were both of them cheesing and it not getting to mines. Then all of the Bomber vs Symbol games were decided by cheeses... (so no conclusion about mines really can be drawn about most of those games)
(no whine... but saying that mines have gone down in awesomeness when innovations wins against the two best zergs - Life, Roro both on daybreak - were a result of good minegames is really selling them under their worth)
Edit: Also Happy vs VortiX yesterday, Happy was the first proTerran I have seen who simply unburrowed mines against those small ling attacks that tried to trigger mines (after purchasing the upgrade to reburrow them quickly of course).
I didn't really catch the Rorovation games, but compared to early-mid april they hit way less of the disgusting hits they did hit.
I liked the mine usage at the start but the openings are making the users suffer a lot due to vulnerabilities to the most boring all in the zerg can use. TT
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Haha Symbol doing what every Zerg on the ladder seems doing right now: Banelingbusting his way through to the top
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On May 16 2013 21:51 Wintex wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 21:31 Big J wrote:On May 16 2013 21:24 Wintex wrote:On May 16 2013 21:10 Insoleet wrote:On May 16 2013 20:40 Wintex wrote:On May 16 2013 20:39 Insoleet wrote:On May 16 2013 20:37 Wintex wrote:On May 16 2013 20:35 kubiks wrote:On May 16 2013 20:34 DemigodcelpH wrote:On May 16 2013 20:29 NovemberstOrm wrote:
lol I don't know why so many people are hating on Parting now. Because he's repeatedly abusing an all-in that will still kill you even if you prepare for it. That's mean. The guy can play macro game too. He just love to use his soul. He has showed extreme army control in the late game before. Why won't he use it? I don't know, but he sure as hell lost me when he started doing this. Because when terran are playing this greedy, its way too hard for zergs to win. Just watch first game of Roro vs Innovation and you'll understand. Terrans needs to calm down their greed, and start playing safer. I love seeing terran being punished like this. If terran plays safer it opens the path for greed for Zerg. Reverse roles initiated. I hate this. Adding one or two tanks in their opening shouldnt be too hard for terrans. It's one minute delay on upgrades, but with mines, terran doesnt need to be too even with the zerg in upgrades anyway. And terran doesnt have as many upgrades to develop as zerg. And mutalisks are delaying the 3 3 upgrades by a lot. But widow mines have gone down in awesomeness when playing versus top level zergs. I find the upgrades to almost be needed. Further build refinement might show that some tanks will be more useful, but one or two tanks are easily dealt with when you have that many roaches tbh. I would argue that you need approx 3-4. Maybe some types of all ins will be possible to do with the tanks if the Zerg goes too eco-focused. Mines vs great professional zergs really aren't being nearly as effective, and banes deal pretty well with then, surprisingly. Of course it's not really the best trade. Bomber didn't play that well, but for the enjoyment of the games, I really dislike the way roach baneling combo works. Maybe marauders and medivac rushing will be a new way to try and deal with it? + Show Spoiler +
Game 1 Roro vs Innovation, the supplies were even until Roro tried to counterattack through the upper side and 2mines killed 20supply of muta/ling (170to150 supply after that), which triggered Innovations winning push. Game 2 was a cheese were it didn't get to a solid stage with a lot of mine usage (and those that he used triggered Roro to run lings into marines, but he couldn't set them off), game 3 were both of them cheesing and it not getting to mines. Then all of the Bomber vs Symbol games were decided by cheeses... (so no conclusion about mines really can be drawn about most of those games)
(no whine... but saying that mines have gone down in awesomeness when innovations wins against the two best zergs - Life, Roro both on daybreak - were a result of good minegames is really selling them under their worth)
Edit: Also Happy vs VortiX yesterday, Happy was the first proTerran I have seen who simply unburrowed mines against those small ling attacks that tried to trigger mines (after purchasing the upgrade to reburrow them quickly of course).
I didn't really catch the Rorovation games, but compared to early-mid april they hit way less of the disgusting hits they did hit. I liked the mine usage at the start but the openings are making the users suffer a lot due to vulnerabilities to the most boring all in the zerg can use. TT
You are correct I feel, instead of 5-10 crazy hits it's usually only like 1-2 really good hits from the mines.
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Innovation = Kami (Japanese word for supernatural being)
Fun alternative to the word Bonjwa :D
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TL is a horrible place sometimes...
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On May 16 2013 22:31 TimENT wrote:
Innovation = Kami (Japanese word for supernatural being)
Fun alternative to the word Bonjwa :D
STX always has good players, they are decent in teamleague, and Calm is pretty handsome. Don't know why they have so few fans, maybe the shipbuilder thing is just not cool enough for kids.
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Poland3759 Posts
On May 16 2013 22:31 TimENT wrote:
Innovation = Kami (Japanese word for supernatural being)
Fun alternative to the word Bonjwa :D
Considering how much unBonjwa is Innovation I don't think he can be called Kami, God, King or anything. He is very solid, though. Almost unLiquid 
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I missed the games this morning 
is there any legal way to watch the VODs without buying a GOM or twitch ticket?
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On May 16 2013 22:57 zurg wrote:I missed the games this morning is there any legal way to watch the VODs without buying a GOM or twitch ticket?
i don't believe so?
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anyone know when the restreams are going to happen in EDT?
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On May 16 2013 21:36 Longtimer wrote:
I can't see any Zergs beating Innovation this year, at least in a BO5 or BO7, but I think sOs could pull off some wins.
The problem though is that Innovation has a fuck-ton of builds, and uses different ones every time and executes them inch perfect. How the hell are you supposed to prepare for a guy like that?
It sort of helps when RorO has been playing like shit for the last few weeks. I didn't even bother staying up to watch this because both results were very predictable.
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On May 16 2013 22:57 zurg wrote:I missed the games this morning is there any legal way to watch the VODs without buying a GOM or twitch ticket?
You can watch free Chinese VODs on MarsTV's channel on Youku. Today's games aren't up yet, they should be fairly soon though.
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Bomber, you breaking my heart.
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On May 16 2013 23:02 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 22:57 zurg wrote:I missed the games this morning is there any legal way to watch the VODs without buying a GOM or twitch ticket? You can watch free Chinese VODs on MarsTV's channel on Youku. Today's games aren't up yet, they should be fairly soon though.
cheers mate
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On May 16 2013 23:02 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 22:57 zurg wrote:I missed the games this morning is there any legal way to watch the VODs without buying a GOM or twitch ticket? You can watch free Chinese VODs on MarsTV's channel on Youku. Today's games aren't up yet, they should be fairly soon though.
I think it's still illegal if you live outside of China, only legal inside China.
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EPT
