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What I gathered about HOTS balance is the following:
Protoss: Voidray Thingy needs to be researched / Chrono Boost should cost 50 Energy / You just can Warp in near Nexus, if you want to Warp in at a Pylon you need to transform the Pylon (Warpgate Pylon) which should cost 50/50. / Photon Overcharge range at 9. / Oracle pulsar beam doesent cost energy anymore, it should cost half of the health.
Zerg: Vipers will die if they try to grab a massive Unit with more then 2 Armor. / Swarmhost Rage: There is a 20% chance that they attack friendly units, but you should be able to research an upgrade to fully domesticate them. / Just 1 Zergling per Egg / Queens will die when they get more then 100Energy because of the Tumor inside.
Terran: Thor Siege Mode resarch: It cant move in this mode but the range is 22 and 1 shot every 1.4seconds. / Suicide Load: Medivacs can Carry a Bomb and fly in to Airunits for a 100 Splash Damage. / New Building: Medical Center: Stimm is now 2 times more effective ( i will think about other research programs).
I know that Zerg will still be a little bit OP but Terran will figuere it out. Gogo Terran!
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France12946 Posts
On March 11 2013 00:10 Ysellian wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2013 21:36 Poopi wrote:On March 10 2013 15:04 Ksi wrote:On March 10 2013 13:56 EngrishTeacher wrote:On March 10 2013 13:07 forsooth wrote:On March 10 2013 10:38 Emzeeshady wrote:On March 10 2013 10:22 forsooth wrote:On March 10 2013 01:08 4ZakeN87 wrote:
Many terrans defending terran balance, everyone else seems more doubtfoul, weird conicidence isnt it ^^ Maybe we're sick of Blizzard smashing all our toys with the nerf hammer after a single event or in some cases, a single game. Terrans were always forced to come up with solutions against new Z/P styles in WoL but whenever the shoe was on the other foot, Blizzard stepped in right away and forced change with all the finesse of a jackhammer when they should've been using a scalpel. You seem to be the most bias person on this entire site and that is saying something. The ones who were more biased got nuked by the admins. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy; Terrans know they need to adapt after nerfs, whereas Zergs simply wait for Blizzard to do something for their race so that's what has happened in the past. That or Terrans are more innovative/creative players in generals, or the Terran racial design is the most flexible. Basically what you're trying to say right? Terran racial design is almost unquestionably the most flexible, but that's actually a good thing. Back in Broodwar, balance did not have to be so painstakingly tuned down to the most minor detail because any sort of "imbalance" could be overcome through just plain outplaying your opponent via mechanics or multitasking. I just wish Blizzard had even made a half assed attempt to bring Zerg and Protoss to the same level. No other race provides a good multi-tasking player with a tool as powerful and as flexible as a medivac drop. Likewise, the mechanical difficulty of producing units and building up production for Terran allows a strong macro player to really shine in comparison to other Terrans. The fact that Terrans consider their race the hardest to micro is actually a good thing, because it means their units actually have strong micro potential. I just wish the other two races had the same avenues to exhibit skill (this includes macro, micro, multitasking...etc) as Terran does. Anyone who argues that Zerg units reward micro as much as Terran does probably hasn't played all three races. I'd say the same for anyone that argues that Protoss rewards Macro as much as either of the other two races. That's the problem. Terran is very hard to play, but it allows really skilled players to shine. Thus, it will be very hard for every terran that isn't korean / european monsters such as Kas, LucifroN and in form ThorZaIN, to even be remotely relevant in foreign events. Problem is that if you make up for that by buffing terran, the super gosus koreans will be almost untouchable, so the solution would be to allow zerg and protoss to have more room for macro/micro/etc, by designing it as well as the terran race. You know how long people have been saying this? By this point I very much doubt Blizzard will ever change this.
I know they won't. After the diablo debacle as well as the queen patch coming for no apparent reason, I have given up all hope about blizzard making the right changes for its game.
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On March 11 2013 00:18 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 00:10 Ysellian wrote:On March 10 2013 21:36 Poopi wrote:On March 10 2013 15:04 Ksi wrote:On March 10 2013 13:56 EngrishTeacher wrote:On March 10 2013 13:07 forsooth wrote:On March 10 2013 10:38 Emzeeshady wrote:On March 10 2013 10:22 forsooth wrote:On March 10 2013 01:08 4ZakeN87 wrote:
Many terrans defending terran balance, everyone else seems more doubtfoul, weird conicidence isnt it ^^ Maybe we're sick of Blizzard smashing all our toys with the nerf hammer after a single event or in some cases, a single game. Terrans were always forced to come up with solutions against new Z/P styles in WoL but whenever the shoe was on the other foot, Blizzard stepped in right away and forced change with all the finesse of a jackhammer when they should've been using a scalpel. You seem to be the most bias person on this entire site and that is saying something. The ones who were more biased got nuked by the admins. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy; Terrans know they need to adapt after nerfs, whereas Zergs simply wait for Blizzard to do something for their race so that's what has happened in the past. That or Terrans are more innovative/creative players in generals, or the Terran racial design is the most flexible. Basically what you're trying to say right? Terran racial design is almost unquestionably the most flexible, but that's actually a good thing. Back in Broodwar, balance did not have to be so painstakingly tuned down to the most minor detail because any sort of "imbalance" could be overcome through just plain outplaying your opponent via mechanics or multitasking. I just wish Blizzard had even made a half assed attempt to bring Zerg and Protoss to the same level. No other race provides a good multi-tasking player with a tool as powerful and as flexible as a medivac drop. Likewise, the mechanical difficulty of producing units and building up production for Terran allows a strong macro player to really shine in comparison to other Terrans. The fact that Terrans consider their race the hardest to micro is actually a good thing, because it means their units actually have strong micro potential. I just wish the other two races had the same avenues to exhibit skill (this includes macro, micro, multitasking...etc) as Terran does. Anyone who argues that Zerg units reward micro as much as Terran does probably hasn't played all three races. I'd say the same for anyone that argues that Protoss rewards Macro as much as either of the other two races. That's the problem. Terran is very hard to play, but it allows really skilled players to shine. Thus, it will be very hard for every terran that isn't korean / european monsters such as Kas, LucifroN and in form ThorZaIN, to even be remotely relevant in foreign events. Problem is that if you make up for that by buffing terran, the super gosus koreans will be almost untouchable, so the solution would be to allow zerg and protoss to have more room for macro/micro/etc, by designing it as well as the terran race. You know how long people have been saying this? By this point I very much doubt Blizzard will ever change this. I know they won't. After the diablo debacle as well as the queen patch coming for no apparent reason, I have given up all hope about blizzard making the right changes for its game.
yeah lol that queen patch. All I can hope for Blizzard is that they allow users the freedom to make the game they want.
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Hey guys,
I missed the whole tournament as I was on holidays down south. Any recommended games I should watch?
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On March 11 2013 01:08 b0ub0u wrote:
Hey guys,
I missed the whole tournament as I was on holidays down south. Any recommended games I should watch?
Pretty much all Mvp games, he was on fire!
And since you are Zerg and non-korean i would say Ret's games are also worth watching. 
Have fun!
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On March 11 2013 01:08 b0ub0u wrote:
Hey guys,
I missed the whole tournament as I was on holidays down south. Any recommended games I should watch?
If you only have time to watch one game it should be parting vs yoda on Newkirk City. If you have time to watch a whole bunch, I would watch all of Stephano's games. Taken as a whole, they really show a story.
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On March 11 2013 01:21 kottbullar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 01:08 b0ub0u wrote:
Hey guys,
I missed the whole tournament as I was on holidays down south. Any recommended games I should watch? If you only have time to watch one game it should be parting vs yoda on Newkirk City. If you have time to watch a whole bunch, I would watch all of Stephano's games. Taken as a whole, they really show a story.
Yeah one of my friend quoted Stephano saying "Feel like playing with one leg". So Zerg having issues in HOTS heh? I am Zerg 
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On March 11 2013 01:24 b0ub0u wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 01:21 kottbullar wrote:On March 11 2013 01:08 b0ub0u wrote:
Hey guys,
I missed the whole tournament as I was on holidays down south. Any recommended games I should watch? If you only have time to watch one game it should be parting vs yoda on Newkirk City. If you have time to watch a whole bunch, I would watch all of Stephano's games. Taken as a whole, they really show a story. Yeah one of my friend quoted Stephano saying "Feel like playing with one leg". So Zerg having issues in HOTS heh? I am Zerg
I wasn't referring to any imbalance issue. I just find those games to show how strong of a WoL player he really was, and how he was trying to slowly adapt to HotS.
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On March 11 2013 01:24 b0ub0u wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 01:21 kottbullar wrote:On March 11 2013 01:08 b0ub0u wrote:
Hey guys,
I missed the whole tournament as I was on holidays down south. Any recommended games I should watch? If you only have time to watch one game it should be parting vs yoda on Newkirk City. If you have time to watch a whole bunch, I would watch all of Stephano's games. Taken as a whole, they really show a story. Yeah one of my friend quoted Stephano saying "Feel like playing with one leg". So Zerg having issues in HOTS heh? I am Zerg
The guy said he barely touched hots prior the tournament, so my guess is that he felt lost against reapers, mines and MSC.
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United Kingdom12041 Posts
On March 10 2013 07:43 Snusmumriken wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2013 07:09 Dodgin wrote:On March 10 2013 06:36 Canucklehead wrote:
I didn't watch all the terran games, but I didn't see hellbats being made much? Why is that? Terrans holding back so they won't get nerfed? They're still viable aren't they? They're not nearly as good as everyone makes them out to be imo. Also, I guess this makes Yoda one of the favorites for the upcoming GSL season. Theyre great with mech against protoss. Only problem is that mech still is much worse than bio vs protoss (it seems), so why bother? :p
It's not much worse, I'd say in terms of "making mistake in engagement losing you the game due to AOE" is pretty much countered by mechs faults. It's just the Korean teams outside of maybe some Kespa players haven't really had enough time to practice mech specifically and at a tournament like this it's much easier to use the style you're familiar with.
I'd expect to see mech to first appear against toss in Proleague or GSL, probably by one of the Kespa terrans like Flash <3
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On March 11 2013 01:49 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 01:24 b0ub0u wrote:On March 11 2013 01:21 kottbullar wrote:On March 11 2013 01:08 b0ub0u wrote:
Hey guys,
I missed the whole tournament as I was on holidays down south. Any recommended games I should watch? If you only have time to watch one game it should be parting vs yoda on Newkirk City. If you have time to watch a whole bunch, I would watch all of Stephano's games. Taken as a whole, they really show a story. Yeah one of my friend quoted Stephano saying "Feel like playing with one leg". So Zerg having issues in HOTS heh? I am Zerg The guy said he barely touched hots prior the tournament, so my guess is that he felt lost against reapers, mines and MSC.
He was exaggerating. He had more HotS games played than some of the other players in the tournament. A lot of people saw him stream HotS for hours, even the casters commented on having seen him stream HotS for much longer than he admitted to having played it. He had way more HotS games played than Parting for one.
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On March 11 2013 02:08 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 01:49 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On March 11 2013 01:24 b0ub0u wrote:On March 11 2013 01:21 kottbullar wrote:On March 11 2013 01:08 b0ub0u wrote:
Hey guys,
I missed the whole tournament as I was on holidays down south. Any recommended games I should watch? If you only have time to watch one game it should be parting vs yoda on Newkirk City. If you have time to watch a whole bunch, I would watch all of Stephano's games. Taken as a whole, they really show a story. Yeah one of my friend quoted Stephano saying "Feel like playing with one leg". So Zerg having issues in HOTS heh? I am Zerg The guy said he barely touched hots prior the tournament, so my guess is that he felt lost against reapers, mines and MSC. He was exaggerating. He had more HotS games played than some of the other players in the tournament. A lot of people saw him stream HotS for hours, even the casters commented on having seen him stream HotS for much longer than he admitted to having played it. He had way more HotS games played than Parting for one.
He streamed HOTS for fun a month before the tournament and only played 12 hours (you can check his VOD's) . Just look at his games against Mvp and Dream, he didn't even know that the cloud doesn't hit mines and was lost against the proxy reaper opening into mines (which was completely standard on the beta) .
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On March 11 2013 02:08 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 01:49 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On March 11 2013 01:24 b0ub0u wrote:On March 11 2013 01:21 kottbullar wrote:On March 11 2013 01:08 b0ub0u wrote:
Hey guys,
I missed the whole tournament as I was on holidays down south. Any recommended games I should watch? If you only have time to watch one game it should be parting vs yoda on Newkirk City. If you have time to watch a whole bunch, I would watch all of Stephano's games. Taken as a whole, they really show a story. Yeah one of my friend quoted Stephano saying "Feel like playing with one leg". So Zerg having issues in HOTS heh? I am Zerg The guy said he barely touched hots prior the tournament, so my guess is that he felt lost against reapers, mines and MSC. He was exaggerating. He had more HotS games played than some of the other players in the tournament. A lot of people saw him stream HotS for hours, even the casters commented on having seen him stream HotS for much longer than he admitted to having played it. He had way more HotS games played than Parting for one.
Yeah ? Well it wouldn't surprise me, he's always trying to sell that "i don't practice much, i'm just a genius" image. And you realize it works when you hear Apollo or read the comment in the LR praising his burrow hatch-tech roach play when in fact this strat has been used by other zergs a couple of weeks ago ...
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IEM was amazing! Met so many people, spoke with Ret and Grubby, and a ton of the koreans. Really fun experience if you follow the scene. Spoke to SKT manager so he would say hi to PartinG (since he wasn't there the last day ) Big thumbs up to everyone who helped organising this event!
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On March 11 2013 02:26 Swiipii wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 02:08 sitromit wrote:On March 11 2013 01:49 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On March 11 2013 01:24 b0ub0u wrote:On March 11 2013 01:21 kottbullar wrote:On March 11 2013 01:08 b0ub0u wrote:
Hey guys,
I missed the whole tournament as I was on holidays down south. Any recommended games I should watch? If you only have time to watch one game it should be parting vs yoda on Newkirk City. If you have time to watch a whole bunch, I would watch all of Stephano's games. Taken as a whole, they really show a story. Yeah one of my friend quoted Stephano saying "Feel like playing with one leg". So Zerg having issues in HOTS heh? I am Zerg The guy said he barely touched hots prior the tournament, so my guess is that he felt lost against reapers, mines and MSC. He was exaggerating. He had more HotS games played than some of the other players in the tournament. A lot of people saw him stream HotS for hours, even the casters commented on having seen him stream HotS for much longer than he admitted to having played it. He had way more HotS games played than Parting for one. He streamed HOTS for fun a month before the tournament and only played 12 hours (you can check his VOD's) . Just look at his games against Mvp and Dream, he didn't even know that the cloud doesn't hit mines and was lost against the proxy reaper opening into mines (which was completely standard on the beta) .
I checked his account before beta closed and he had well over 100 games played just last season.
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If you guys think he was going into IEM with only 10 hours of HOTS under his belt I've got some high-quality swamp land I'd like to sell you.
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Watched the Mvp vs Yoda series again, a really good series but i still don't understand what Mvp was doing game 5.
He had played such good games the whole tournament then the last game he forgets to build workers, to a point where he gets behind just because of it. And then he plays a pure marine/medivac against marine/medivac/tank and still manages to be down in upgrades?
He might have planned to go for a massive marine count (with fewer workers allowing for it too be much higher then normal) and then attempting to take a really good engagement and win from there.
But Ohana has always been a good map for mech, and tanks. Felt like the wrong map to try out that strategy.
Doesn't really matter though, that game just confounds me.
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On March 11 2013 04:36 Zorgaz wrote:
Watched the Mvp vs Yoda series again, a really good series but i still don't understand what Mvp was doing game 5.
He had played such good games the whole tournament then the last game he forgets to build workers, to a point where he gets behind just because of it. And then he plays a pure marine/medivac against marine/medivac/tank and still manages to be down in upgrades?
He might have planned to go for a massive marine count (with fewer workers allowing for it too be much higher then normal) and then attempting to take a really good engagement and win from there.
But Ohana has always been a good map for mech, and tanks. Felt like the wrong map to try out that strategy.
Doesn't really matter though, that game just confounds me.
it's a conspiracy. it was all LGIM top four anyways and MVP already won every tournament so why not let Yoda shine.
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On March 11 2013 04:36 Zorgaz wrote:
Watched the Mvp vs Yoda series again, a really good series but i still don't understand what Mvp was doing game 5.
He had played such good games the whole tournament then the last game he forgets to build workers, to a point where he gets behind just because of it. And then he plays a pure marine/medivac against marine/medivac/tank and still manages to be down in upgrades?
He might have planned to go for a massive marine count (with fewer workers allowing for it too be much higher then normal) and then attempting to take a really good engagement and win from there.
But Ohana has always been a good map for mech, and tanks. Felt like the wrong map to try out that strategy.
Doesn't really matter though, that game just confounds me.
You play that way with the style he played (stopping workers early). But Yoda didn't just stop the harassment but grabbed alot of the Medivacs, that way MVP couldn't trade armies anymore. In the Final engagement Yoda got him off guard by charging into a Medivac-less group of Marines with his Marines supported by Medivacs. Afterwards he faked a retreat with his Siege Tanks and MVP tryed to grab the tanks and clumped. But Yodas Marines were still between the Tanks. That way Yoda could get alot of money shots with the Siege tanks.
MVP just fell for a trap, or rather a well organized retreat. Yoda seems to know Ohana extremely well, every time his opponents set up traps for him, Yoda used them against his opponents.
What I noticed the most is that LG IM players really knew how to stop speed medivacs, everyone of them.
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Big thanks to IEM for providing free vods, really enjoyed watching them. Absolutely IM ownage :D
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EPT
