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On March 07 2013 19:11 AxionSteel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 19:08 Big J wrote:On March 07 2013 19:05 IshinShishi wrote:On March 07 2013 19:00 Big J wrote:On March 07 2013 18:53 IshinShishi wrote:On March 07 2013 18:52 Big J wrote:On March 07 2013 18:49 Geos13 wrote:
While I don't think Grubby lost because of balance reasons, I don't understand how HotS PvT and WoL PvT can both be considered balanced. It's pretty much the same except with massively buffed medivacs... Having one high health photon cannon isn't going to deter a drop. GSL TvP has always been 60:40 or better for Terran, apart from early to mid 2012  Stop spreading bullshit 2011: GSL sponsor tournaments: 57% 2011: GSL super tournament 2011: 74% 2012: GSL Seasons 1,2,3, 4: 48-53% 2012: GSL Seasons 5: 58% 2013: GSL Sseaons 1: 60% Funny, when people deny commentaries that are build upon measurable data.  What does polt destroying the super tournament have to do with anything? Set Win Ratio 50.9% 329W / 317L That's the win ratio for the entirety of 2012 and I don't even know what you are whining about at this point. nothing. It's you who quoted me for spreading facts You're pathetic lol totally manipulating the data to make yourself look correct. I didn't even need to look at statistics to know that your original claim was absolute bullshit
where did I manipulate data? Lol. All I did is go to the gomtv website and copy the stats...
If you would have ever used it, you would know that the super tournament is not included in the sponsor tournaments...
And the seaons 1to4 thing is separate because that's the way I claimed it. whether this is early to mid 2012 is mostly a semantic question...
Do it yourself and send me a PM if you think I'm manipulating...
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TLADT24920 Posts
mvp was definitely the better player there. Watching that replay, it was obvious the medivacs even without speed would've made it into the main since he had one archon and like 2 stalkers with maybe 1-2 sentries then he would've sniped and pulled out right before the zealots got that surround in the corner. Go mvp!
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On March 07 2013 19:11 Alexj wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 19:08 Hylirion wrote:
OK watching the replay speedboost had nothing to do with that 4 medivac drop, it would have worked fine with normal medivacs. Actually zealots and archons would get in position before Nexus died without the speed boost
The zealots and archons on the other side of the cliff, who would have to run through the natural and up the ramp?
MVP could have dropped his units right after he passed the cliff, then stimmed them and run them up to the Nexus...
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On March 07 2013 19:12 ROOTheognis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 19:11 Alexj wrote:On March 07 2013 19:08 Hylirion wrote:
OK watching the replay speedboost had nothing to do with that 4 medivac drop, it would have worked fine with normal medivacs. Actually zealots and archons would get in position before Nexus died without the speed boost I don't think so. Pretty sure it would have gone down as well. Or at the very least just kill 15+ probes lol
Hey man when do you plan on streaming the next time? It's one of the best terran streams out there!
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nice way to kill down time, thank you IEM
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On March 07 2013 19:13 Solarist wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 19:10 Musicus wrote:On March 07 2013 19:07 dcemuser wrote:On March 07 2013 19:05 4ZakeN87 wrote:
Okay great play by MVP but looking at his usage of speed medivacs... How does terran lose with that unit, the mobility is retarded. Because it requires absolutely stupid amounts of micro to use the way MVP did. I seriously doubt the imbalance extends beyond the top tier pros. Well but that's what it is about, the game has to be balanced around Flash, Rain and Roro. Now Flash with these medivacs is not balanced. And you know that how? Are you some kind of oracle who just KNOWS that people wont be able to defend these drops once they learn to deal with it? Btw im considering playing the lottery, can you inbox me the winning numbers please?
Well everyone basically agreed on this after the last rain vs flash games in code A. Sorry I never win a thing and don't play the lottery^^.
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On March 07 2013 19:16 Giriath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 19:11 Alexj wrote:On March 07 2013 19:08 Hylirion wrote:
OK watching the replay speedboost had nothing to do with that 4 medivac drop, it would have worked fine with normal medivacs. Actually zealots and archons would get in position before Nexus died without the speed boost The zealots and archons on the other side of the cliff, who would have to run through the natural and up the ramp? MVP could have dropped his units right after he passed the cliff, then stimmed them and run them up to the Nexus...
plus mvp could have just microed the units into the mineral line and the zealots wouldnt have been able to do shit. he didnt micro because he was so close to killing the nexus so he just finished it off and microed back to the cliff edge. then he just flew out.
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Guys, guys. This is where folks can take advantage of the new features. Ask IEM for the replays and create a space to review contentious games.
With RfR we can go over MvP game and cutback on the conjecture.
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Looking at MVP, Dream and Yoda play HotS terran, cant help but to feel that Kas and Lucifron failed pretty hard to get at the bottom of their groups.
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United States97276 Posts
On March 07 2013 19:15 DJHelium wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 19:12 Corrosive wrote:On March 07 2013 19:09 DJHelium wrote:On March 07 2013 19:06 bennyaus wrote:
Grubby playing the most consistent player of the last 3 years (or whatever), whereas Grubby is somewhere between 30-100 in the last 3 years.
Grubby opens DTs.
Does literally no damage.
No stalkers.
???
Terran is imbalanced. This. I'm not saying that medivacs are balanced (they do seem strong), but I think we should wait until we see players like PartinG or Rain play against players like Mvp or MarineKing, so we get to see how it works at the very top level. Mvp would've won that game without the speed boost as well, Grubby was way behind after that opening. dunno about rain. seems like he gets picked apart by multitasking terrans a lot. dream and flash tore him apart pretty easily Replace him with Creator!
Creator's not the best against drops either. It's how jjakji and Bomber picked him apart in the past. He's better at beating Terrans that want to play in straight up engagements instead of multipronged attacks
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On March 07 2013 19:16 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 19:13 Solarist wrote:On March 07 2013 19:10 Musicus wrote:On March 07 2013 19:07 dcemuser wrote:On March 07 2013 19:05 4ZakeN87 wrote:
Okay great play by MVP but looking at his usage of speed medivacs... How does terran lose with that unit, the mobility is retarded. Because it requires absolutely stupid amounts of micro to use the way MVP did. I seriously doubt the imbalance extends beyond the top tier pros. Well but that's what it is about, the game has to be balanced around Flash, Rain and Roro. Now Flash with these medivacs is not balanced. And you know that how? Are you some kind of oracle who just KNOWS that people wont be able to defend these drops once they learn to deal with it? Btw im considering playing the lottery, can you inbox me the winning numbers please? Well everyone basically agreed on this after the last rain vs flash games in code A. Sorry I never win a thing and don't play the lottery^^.
"Everyone basically agreed", well that's enough to convince me. The amazingly insightful hivemind called something imba, they must be correct.
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On March 07 2013 19:13 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 19:05 4ZakeN87 wrote:
Okay great play by MVP but looking at his usage of speed medivacs... How does terran lose with that unit, the mobility is retarded. Or Grubby could play something else than Zealots/Archons—the unit composition which is the most vulnerable to mass drop play because your only anti-air is a clunky short-ranged unit—in a game drastically improving said drop play? For example a 150/150 upgrade which allows your Stalkers to teleport to any location within 8 range instead of having to awkwardly bypass cliffs and such with your whole army.
Except your stalkers are made of paper, do less damage than the medivac healrate to marines and are gonna cost you the gas you need to deal with mass marine.
Stalkers are remarkably terrible units that everyone who doesn't understand the race overrates because of timings. Besides DT opening says it all. Grubby needed meat so he was always going to need to wait on the third. Esp since terran scan speedboost over a defensive force now.
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France12886 Posts
On March 07 2013 19:13 WoodLeagueAllStar wrote:
Foreigner Terrans been playing HotS longer yet have awful records at IEM, couldn't they just use their magic I Win Ships to maybe pick up some victories? I mean come on. MVP would have beaten Grubby in WoL after that DT kill starsense anyway.
LucifroN didn't play much HotS. Otherwise they would have destroyed.
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nathanias getting his game jacked is fucking bullshit oO
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On March 07 2013 19:18 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 19:15 DJHelium wrote:On March 07 2013 19:12 Corrosive wrote:On March 07 2013 19:09 DJHelium wrote:On March 07 2013 19:06 bennyaus wrote:
Grubby playing the most consistent player of the last 3 years (or whatever), whereas Grubby is somewhere between 30-100 in the last 3 years.
Grubby opens DTs.
Does literally no damage.
No stalkers.
???
Terran is imbalanced. This. I'm not saying that medivacs are balanced (they do seem strong), but I think we should wait until we see players like PartinG or Rain play against players like Mvp or MarineKing, so we get to see how it works at the very top level. Mvp would've won that game without the speed boost as well, Grubby was way behind after that opening. dunno about rain. seems like he gets picked apart by multitasking terrans a lot. dream and flash tore him apart pretty easily Replace him with Creator! Creator's not the best against drops either. It's how jjakji and Bomber picked him apart in the past. He's better at beating Terrans that want to play in straight up engagements instead of multipronged attacks
Creator vs Thorzain lategame would be extremely fun.
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On March 07 2013 19:17 wangstra wrote:
Guys, guys. This is where folks can take advantage of the new features. Ask IEM for the replays and create a space to review contentious games.
The replays are from a special version and won't work anywhere else.
Not that it matters - when fan favorites lose there is always plenty of lamentations.
Just wait to see what happens should Stephano lose.
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France12886 Posts
On March 07 2013 19:16 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 19:13 Solarist wrote:On March 07 2013 19:10 Musicus wrote:On March 07 2013 19:07 dcemuser wrote:On March 07 2013 19:05 4ZakeN87 wrote:
Okay great play by MVP but looking at his usage of speed medivacs... How does terran lose with that unit, the mobility is retarded. Because it requires absolutely stupid amounts of micro to use the way MVP did. I seriously doubt the imbalance extends beyond the top tier pros. Well but that's what it is about, the game has to be balanced around Flash, Rain and Roro. Now Flash with these medivacs is not balanced. And you know that how? Are you some kind of oracle who just KNOWS that people wont be able to defend these drops once they learn to deal with it? Btw im considering playing the lottery, can you inbox me the winning numbers please? Well everyone basically agreed on this after the last rain vs flash games in code A. Sorry I never win a thing and don't play the lottery^^.
Sorry to burst your bubble but the top tier of the last wol tourneys weren't Flash and Rain.
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Let's just say that it makes more sense to see Mvp destroying people forever and ever with winships than seeing him lose to random zergs in the NA ladder, which happened quite a few times.
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On March 07 2013 19:18 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 19:16 Musicus wrote:On March 07 2013 19:13 Solarist wrote:On March 07 2013 19:10 Musicus wrote:On March 07 2013 19:07 dcemuser wrote:On March 07 2013 19:05 4ZakeN87 wrote:
Okay great play by MVP but looking at his usage of speed medivacs... How does terran lose with that unit, the mobility is retarded. Because it requires absolutely stupid amounts of micro to use the way MVP did. I seriously doubt the imbalance extends beyond the top tier pros. Well but that's what it is about, the game has to be balanced around Flash, Rain and Roro. Now Flash with these medivacs is not balanced. And you know that how? Are you some kind of oracle who just KNOWS that people wont be able to defend these drops once they learn to deal with it? Btw im considering playing the lottery, can you inbox me the winning numbers please? Well everyone basically agreed on this after the last rain vs flash games in code A. Sorry I never win a thing and don't play the lottery^^. "Everyone basically agreed", well that's enough to convince me. The amazingly insightful hivemind called something imba, they must be correct.
Yep "Everyone basically agreed" is all i need aswell, i propose medivacs cost 500/500 now with the speed boost after seing this evidence comming forward
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EPT
