EPT[SPL] EG-Liquid vs KT Rolster R3 - Page 34
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On February 27 2013 00:36 Scarecrow wrote: EG-TL's recent performances coupled with comments like Myungsik saying "I don't think EG-TL is really focusing on Proleague. The results are inevitable since we work harder." So I assume KT was dicking around for most of Round 3 because this was their first win? Which means all the other teams were working hard than them. | ||
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edgeOut
United States945 Posts
On February 27 2013 01:03 Doodsmack wrote: 1) EG-TL is on a losing streak 2) Some KT player thinks EG-TL isn't focusing on Proleague 3) Therefore, EG-TL lacks passion and effort, and doesn't care much about Proleague Just wanted to paraphrase your argument so you could see more clearly that you're drawing a sweeping conclusion based on insufficient information. There are a number of different plausible explanations that could substitute for #3. Either they are a team with bad players or they don't work hard, you choose. | ||
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kusto
Russian Federation823 Posts
On February 27 2013 00:42 DarkLordOlli wrote: I doubt it. He'd learn to BO snipe protoss instead of figuring out how ZvP works faster. He'd still be bad at the matchup, except he might get silly wins by executing strats that don't require him to understand the matchup. I'd rather have him learn slowly. How is this different from understanding the matchup? This is a funny excuse. | ||
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9172 Posts
On February 27 2013 01:03 Doodsmack wrote: 1) EG-TL is on a losing streak 2) Some KT player thinks EG-TL isn't focusing on Proleague 3) Therefore, EG-TL lacks passion and effort, and doesn't care much about Proleague Just wanted to paraphrase your argument so you could see more clearly that you're drawing a sweeping conclusion based on insufficient information. There are a number of different plausible explanations that could substitute for #3. I don't even see why I need sufficient evidence, this isn't a court of law. It's just in my opinion, they seem neither emotionally involved nor motivated. If you watch their games it's pretty obvious they don't specifically prepare as much as the Kespa boys (Thorzain streaming ladder TvZ's the night before a TvT match, Taeja returning with that shitty proxy starport build, Stephano doing generic builds etc.) and they clearly focus more on GSL than proleague if you look at their rotations. Still, if you want to be a fanboy and pretend they're practicing their hearts out for proleague I can't stop you. Actually it's probably even more depressing if you think they're trying their hardest. | ||
Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On February 27 2013 01:28 kusto wrote: How is this different from understanding the matchup? This is a funny excuse. I could learn how to proxy gate and hope to catch BO wins vs someone like MKP who's known for going CC first. Ain't got much to do with understanding the matchup, does it? I watch lots of PL and cannon rushes/proxy gates or proxying other stuff is used pretttttttttttty often compared to anywhere else. Also it's not an excuse, I'm not necessarily a fan of Jaedong or EG. I'm just saying learning how to BO snipe people =|= learning a matchup. | ||
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edgeOut
United States945 Posts
On February 27 2013 01:33 DarkLordOlli wrote: I could learn how to proxy gate and hope to catch BO wins vs someone like MKP who's known for going CC first. Ain't got much to do with understanding the matchup, does it? I watch lots of PL and cannon rushes/proxy gates or proxying other stuff is used pretttttttttttty often compared to anywhere else. Also it's not an excuse, I'm not necessarily a fan of Jaedong or EG. I'm just saying learning how to BO snipe people =|= learning a matchup. Most BW legends cheesed their way to the top, Jaedong, Boxer, July, and early Flash. Early game and cheese is where Koreans shine, just ask every foreigner heros in the history of BW and SC2, most of them are macro monsters, but they fail in early game due to lack of attention to details. And this is exactly why Koreans are better, they are focused and have attention to details. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On February 27 2013 01:40 edgeOut wrote: Most BW legends cheesed their way to the top, Jaedong, Boxer, July, and early Flash. Early game and cheese is where Koreans shine, just ask every foreigner heros in the history of BW and SC2, most of them are macro monsters, but they fail in early game due to lack of attention to details. Indeed, much of the 'Korean style' involves using heavy cheesing and all-inning to build up an aura of unpredictability, which keeps opponents honest, and then going for greedy builds when the time is right--like when Flash proxy rax'd Kwanro all through the MSL semis only to 14cc three times in a row vs Jaedong in the finals. This isn't to say foreigners can't do this as well, but it seems the foreigners who are best at metagaming the fuck out of people end up doing something like poker instead. | ||
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Whatson
United States5356 Posts
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Denzil
United Kingdom4193 Posts
Kespa players have spent the past X years preparing for a single match against an opponent format so I'd expect their preparation for these sorts of games to be flawless Kespa teams priorities are also Proleague then gsl then whatever else EgTL doesn't have the desire / ability to focus solely on 1 long ass league and prioritise it to Kespa's degree | ||
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aviator116
United States820 Posts
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bsdaemon
618 Posts
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On February 27 2013 01:30 Scarecrow wrote: I don't even see why I need sufficient evidence, this isn't a court of law. It's just in my opinion, they seem neither emotionally involved nor motivated. If you watch their games it's pretty obvious they don't specifically prepare as much as the Kespa boys (Thorzain streaming ladder TvZ's the night before a TvT match, Taeja returning with that shitty proxy starport build, Stephano doing generic builds etc.) and they clearly focus more on GSL than proleague if you look at their rotations. Still, if you want to be a fanboy and pretend they're practicing their hearts out for proleague I can't stop you. Actually it's probably even more depressing if you think they're trying their hardest. There you brought up some actual evidence, I'll grant you that. But to claim with certainty they lack passion and motivation, despite obvious other possibilities like less skill/sponsor- driven streaming requirements/not playing to their full ability on tv/tournament format and kespa experience advantage is just not an intelligent thing to say. And sorry but saying "it's just my opinion" doesn't shield you from the need to back up what you say. Because after all, players and personalities read the forums, and when you make claims like the one about passion and motivation, you contribute to the negative side of this community and you become a member of the vocal minority that drives public figures away from the community. | ||
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brrip
United Kingdom211 Posts
On February 27 2013 01:19 vthree wrote: So I assume KT was dicking around for most of Round 3 because this was their first win? Which means all the other teams were working hard than them. I thought he was trying to make his comments without insulting the team they just crushed, I don't see the point in trying to turn it back on him | ||
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Hadley88
Germany267 Posts
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Swords
6038 Posts
"Just a head's up to those who may be wondering. The EG house in Korea has a minimum 8 hour daily practice requirement to even live there. Their hours are tracked, evaluated by two coaches [both our GM and Sungjin] every other day, and the league picks are decided upon by the two coaches who compare and discuss their performance/commitment regularly. They have very minimal time off, and are encouraged to play beyond the minimum. In most cases, they play 10-12 hours (the additional time for their streaming). Keep in mind, too, that these players are not just matchmaking, but are required to play against each other and discuss the games." This practice time, according to him doesn't include streaming, so the players usually end up playing 10-12 hours a day. So the players are definitely putting the time in toward practicing starcraft. I guess the question is if the time is directed properly towards proleague, or if the other tournaments (GSL, MLG, IPL) are taking precedence. It also begs the question of how much does streaming hurt players? Even if they're just doing it for the viewers (which is great), it still may give away stuff opponents can take advantage of like scouting patterns, etc. | ||
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shid0x
Korea (South)5014 Posts
I don't wanna seem mean but the coaching since the start seemed pretty horrible. | ||
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Glon
United States569 Posts
On February 26 2013 17:33 Sabu113 wrote: Well they can bring the foreigners to get results in HoTS... Right? Foreigners are getting DESTROYED in HotS. ~45 of the top 50 in GM are koreans lol | ||
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edgeOut
United States945 Posts
On February 27 2013 03:16 Glon wrote: Foreigners are getting DESTROYED in HotS. ~45 of the top 50 in GM are koreans lol Is that Korean Ladder? If it is, 5 of top 50 is insanely good for foreigners. | ||
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Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
the kespa teams are sponsored by korean corporations with the goal of reaching the korean market. proleague runs on television in korea and, due to its bw history, has a large fanbase and recognition in korea itself. thus, proleague is single-most important thing in the world for the kespa teams - evidenced, for example, by the fact that skt1 was forcing their top players to sacrifice preparation time for their individual league games (osl, msl) in favour of more practice for their proleague games. (bisu once complained about that in an interview.) egtl's sponsors, on the other hand, are international corporations for which the korean market is just one among many, and not quite the biggest at that. they primarily care about the team's exposition to an international audience. this is done via streaming, gsl, gstl and foreigner tournaments like mlgs and iem. therefore, it seems quite natural to me that proleague success is much farther down the priority list for egtl than for any other kespa team, for which proleague is on top of that list. considering the huge dedication and professionality that korean teams put into whatever they are focussing on, it doesnt really surprise that egtl cant compete with them. | ||
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