On February 26 2013 13:38 trinxified wrote: Damn... Was gonna watch this until I see the first game being JYP vs Flash. Wasted IMO.
JYP's PvT is actually a lot better recently than it has ever been. I dunno if it's good enough to take down Flash but I would be surprised if it was a walkover, which is probably the most optimistic thing I can say at this point :/
For the OP, if they desire. Honestly I think it's a little cluttered/busy/big for SPL. It's more of a GSL appropriate thing. But still, if the OP likes it... here you go:
On February 26 2013 14:11 MCXD wrote: For the OP, if they desire. Honestly I think it's a little cluttered/busy/big for SPL. It's more of a GSL appropriate thing. But still, if the OP likes it... here you go:
Maps: Neo Arkanoid | Entombed Valley | Cloud Kingdom | Neo Planet S | Akilon Flats | Caldeum 3 | Antiga Shipyard
I might make some smaller ones of a different (more appropriate) design for SPL in future.
Not that this is related at all, but this is cool. My point of criticism is simply the font looks a little too squashed. Not that I could ever do it. Just thought I'd share my opinion, since I don't have much else to say (It's still better than anything I could ever do )
REALLY hope EG-TL can pull something off tonight, but it's getting a little depressing. Them and SKT.
Wow, didn't realize JYP was actually 4-1 in PvT in SPL. That's a pretty huge change from his historic lows around 30% in the matchup. I really want to see him take Flash down, it would just be amazing.
If you INSIST on playing Puma (yet again), at least put Taeja in on Neo Arkanoid instead of a Protoss, no?
Taeja just kicked the crap out of Violet (it was close games, though) in the HotS MLG qualifier today. Why didn't @EGtrotRC put him in on Neo Arkanoid...?!
On February 26 2013 15:09 i.of.the.storm wrote: Wow, didn't realize JYP was actually 4-1 in PvT in SPL. That's a pretty huge change from his historic lows around 30% in the matchup. I really want to see him take Flash down, it would just be amazing.
Yeah JyPvT has been decent for awhile now. His PvZ oddly enough is the one taking the hit now xD
On February 26 2013 15:09 i.of.the.storm wrote: Wow, didn't realize JYP was actually 4-1 in PvT in SPL. That's a pretty huge change from his historic lows around 30% in the matchup. I really want to see him take Flash down, it would just be amazing.
Oh, I guess that's the reason. I'd forgotten (due to my anger of JYP being put in instead of HerO in SO many matches) Still choked about Puma being played, though.
On February 26 2013 15:09 i.of.the.storm wrote: Wow, didn't realize JYP was actually 4-1 in PvT in SPL. That's a pretty huge change from his historic lows around 30% in the matchup. I really want to see him take Flash down, it would just be amazing.
Sorry, but Flash's eye is twitching. God mode is enabled.
On February 26 2013 15:13 Jacmert wrote: If you INSIST on playing Puma (yet again), at least put Taeja in on Neo Arkanoid instead of a Protoss, no?
Taeja just kicked the crap out of Violet (it was close games, though) in the HotS MLG qualifier today. Why didn't @EGtrotRC put him in on Neo Arkanoid...?!
The MLG games weren't live(The Korean ones were played 2 weeks before MLG's broadcast). It is likely they were played a while back. Taeja is probably solely focused on Code S right now.
On February 26 2013 15:19 ETisME wrote: jyp playing quite well, I am impressed
No, JYP holding the pushes quite well, but at a severe disadvantage already because his build can't compete with Flash's build. That's what it seems like to me, anyways...
The observer is pretty good: pointed out that flash forgot concussive shell but JYP played poorly... lack of upgrades, stayed on colossus for too long.... and without storms its going to be hard for jyp to take on that better upgraded terran army...
On February 26 2013 15:09 i.of.the.storm wrote: Wow, didn't realize JYP was actually 4-1 in PvT in SPL. That's a pretty huge change from his historic lows around 30% in the matchup. I really want to see him take Flash down, it would just be amazing.
Yeah JyPvT has been decent for awhile now. His PvZ oddly enough is the one taking the hit now xD
Yeah, kind of same for HerO I feel. His PvP used to be legendary but in SPL it's just been meh. I dunno I just can't rationalize the performance of EGTL at all so it's really hard to actually gauge who should do best in what matchup.
On February 26 2013 15:22 Whitewing wrote: Why would you go for colossus on this map? T_T.
I think KT is gonna 4-0 EG-TL
On February 26 2013 15:23 edgeOut wrote: JYP's build order is not smart.
Upon further reflection, yeah. Against a Terran, on Neo Arkanoid (the map of infinite cliffs), why should you ever go Colossi? Trying to mind game the Terran by doing the most unexpected (read: least effective) build?
On February 26 2013 15:13 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On February 26 2013 15:09 i.of.the.storm wrote: Wow, didn't realize JYP was actually 4-1 in PvT in SPL. That's a pretty huge change from his historic lows around 30% in the matchup. I really want to see him take Flash down, it would just be amazing.
Yeah JyPvT has been decent for awhile now. His PvZ oddly enough is the one taking the hit now xD
Yeah, kind of same for HerO I feel. His PvP used to be legendary but in SPL it's just been meh. I dunno I just can't rationalize the performance of EGTL at all so it's really hard to actually gauge who should do best in what matchup.
I think the last few HerO losses, he's gone for something unorthodox. I think @EGtrotRC should just tell him to go 2 gate robo expand every game in PvP or something standard like that.
On February 26 2013 15:19 ETisME wrote: jyp playing quite well, I am impressed
No, JYP holding the pushes quite well, but at a severe disadvantage already because his build can't compete with Flash's build. That's what it seems like to me, anyways...
Phoenix didn't do squat (reaper killed as many workers), 2 ebay build meant fast turrets
Stayed too long on colossus
No forward obs to see army movement (Protoss always loses to multi pronged and back and forth attacks on Arkanoid)
looking back, i feel like eg-tl should have known protoss is not the strongest on neo arkanoid but i don't really associate them with common sense at this point
On February 26 2013 15:19 ETisME wrote: jyp playing quite well, I am impressed
No, JYP holding the pushes quite well, but at a severe disadvantage already because his build can't compete with Flash's build. That's what it seems like to me, anyways...
Phoenix didn't do squat (reaper killed as many workers),
ya that was pretty sad, 1 reaper was as effective as 4 phoenixes, 3 kills each. flash showing the skill gap.
On February 26 2013 15:19 ETisME wrote: jyp playing quite well, I am impressed
No, JYP holding the pushes quite well, but at a severe disadvantage already because his build can't compete with Flash's build. That's what it seems like to me, anyways...
Phoenix didn't do squat (reaper killed as many workers),
ya that was pretty sad, 1 reaper was as effective as 4 phoenixes, 3 kills each. flash showing the skill gap.
It's a map for greedy openings. Terran always opens reaper into mass marines and early upgrades (ebay). Really don't understand that build.
I really wish they would reduce the time in between games. I don't care if I have to watch replays, plus they wouldn't have to spend much money on filler stuff.
JD is currently 0-2 on Entombed vs Protoss. I really really hope he has something else up his sleeve besides spine forest into BL/infestor It's really common on this map and JD just isn't that good at it.
On February 26 2013 15:37 AllHailTheDead wrote: damn missed the flash game....glad to see he won tho
so im guessing JYP went phoenix and flash killed tons of scvs with reapers?
JYP went phoenix and killed 3 workers. Flash went reaper into cc, and killed 3 workers because JYP wasn't paying attention.
JYP tried to go for mass colossus, but Flash had double reactored Starport and demolished JYP's third. Flash's early double ebay also paid dividends as JYP's upgrades were late. Templar tech was also late.
On February 26 2013 15:37 BakedButters wrote: What is JYP's record in proleague? He seems to be really struggling, and during his streams, he's kinda slow
On February 26 2013 15:37 envyYaegz wrote: I really wish they would reduce the time in between games. I don't care if I have to watch replays, plus they wouldn't have to spend much money on filler stuff.
it's supposed to be for commercials on TV, since SPL is for a TV audience
On February 26 2013 15:13 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On February 26 2013 15:09 i.of.the.storm wrote: Wow, didn't realize JYP was actually 4-1 in PvT in SPL. That's a pretty huge change from his historic lows around 30% in the matchup. I really want to see him take Flash down, it would just be amazing.
Yeah JyPvT has been decent for awhile now. His PvZ oddly enough is the one taking the hit now xD
Yeah, kind of same for HerO I feel. His PvP used to be legendary but in SPL it's just been meh. I dunno I just can't rationalize the performance of EGTL at all so it's really hard to actually gauge who should do best in what matchup.
I think the last few HerO losses, he's gone for something unorthodox. I think @EGtrotRC should just tell him to go 2 gate robo expand every game in PvP or something standard like that.
A lot of EG-TL players' losses have seemed that way to be honest. All of Puma's really odd all-ins for instance. Even his one win with a 1-1-1 was so awkward, I felt like the only reason he won was because his opponent had no idea what to do.
On February 26 2013 15:37 BakedButters wrote: What is JYP's record in proleague? He seems to be really struggling, and during his streams, he's kinda slow
They really need to make the Recover Game thing more prominent by making it into a damn button. Blizzard's UI team still sucks even though they got rid of the Xbox Live guy
On February 26 2013 15:50 Ch3rry wrote: Come on, PL need to change the maintenance crew. Almost every day is something wrong. GSL don't have sooo many breaks.
On February 26 2013 15:52 dcemuser wrote: >Girl doesn't want to be seen and hide behinds a notebook >Zoom in on her notebook and leave the camera there for a full minute
I'm not sure if that is the correct camera response.
On February 26 2013 15:52 dcemuser wrote: >Girl doesn't want to be seen and hide behinds a notebook >Zoom in on her notebook and leave the camera there for a full minute
I'm not sure if that is the correct camera response.
The casters were talking about the "3 Indexes Notebook." Gotta analyze that metagame, yo.
I will have been watching the SPL for an hour now, and have only seen one game TT. I was hoping to see stephano by the time I go to bed, but I dunno if that's going to happen.
Btw opterown or anyone else, how many views does the tv broadcast get for the spl? There is no way this is worth investing money into if there are only 6,000 twitch viewers.
Its not even that they cover their face. The best part is the camera just awkwardly stares at one group of people for 30+ seconds. Khaldor just owned it.
On February 26 2013 15:52 dcemuser wrote: >Girl doesn't want to be seen and hide behinds a notebook >Zoom in on her notebook and leave the camera there for a full minute
I'm not sure if that is the correct camera response.
Probably trying to find her school name, and then notice her parents. Today's school day.
On February 26 2013 15:53 envyYaegz wrote: I will have been watching the SPL for an hour now, and have only seen one game TT. I was hoping to see stephano by the time I go to bed, but I dunno if that's going to happen.
Btw opterown or anyone else, how many views does the tv broadcast get for the spl? There is no way this is worth investing money into if there are only 6,000 twitch viewers.
There is no available english info afaik
Proleague (and Kespa) has always been primarily a TV-based league though, because it is targeted mainly towards Korean audiences. This is the first time they have an official English broadcast. Used to be just rebroadcasts (<3 Sayle)
Lol at the unopened monster, that's pretty hilarious. Jaedong should rip it open next time he's on camera and then win his match in spectacular fashion.
On February 26 2013 15:56 i.of.the.storm wrote: Lol at the unopened monster, that's pretty hilarious. Jaedong should rip it open next time he's on camera and then win his match in spectacular fashion.
For some reason I doubt he has ever tried a monster before, especially the green one on his table there.
On February 26 2013 15:56 i.of.the.storm wrote: Lol at the unopened monster, that's pretty hilarious. Jaedong should rip it open next time he's on camera and then win his match in spectacular fashion.
For some reason I doubt he has ever tried a monster before, especially the green one on his table there.
i'm pretty sure idra doesn't drink 100% monster when he is on stream, like that can't be healthy....
Clearly we should all blame SNM for not informing them about the feature
On February 26 2013 15:59 Clefairy wrote: This is a Blizzard UI team fail. The new UI is still so horrible.
Well specifically, it wouldn't have killed them to have "Resume From Replay" be a button instead of a freaking dropdown from a right-click on items that you NEVER right-clicked in the past.
I would imagine that "resume from replay" is not in the rules yet, and they say that in case of disconnect they restart. KeSPA has always been strict about enforcing rules, and then changing rules later if they are retarded.
On February 26 2013 15:59 Ded808 wrote: What the hell? Why not use the brand new feature that works......
Generally Kespa referees are hardcore, it would take them like 1 week of just playing with the feature and debating rules to decide if they want to use it or not. It might be brought up between rounds.
On February 26 2013 15:56 i.of.the.storm wrote: Lol at the unopened monster, that's pretty hilarious. Jaedong should rip it open next time he's on camera and then win his match in spectacular fashion.
For some reason I doubt he has ever tried a monster before, especially the green one on his table there.
i'm pretty sure idra doesn't drink 100% monster when he is on stream, like that can't be healthy....
Yeah, more than likely his open monsters on stream are for show, however I bet at first all of the EG house guys went crazy on them until they realized they were experiencing unexplained heart palpitations and stopped drinking them.
On February 26 2013 16:02 sparklyresidue wrote: Wow, getting away with double hatch before pool ZvP must feel great... can't say I've ever managed to do it.
On February 26 2013 15:56 i.of.the.storm wrote: Lol at the unopened monster, that's pretty hilarious. Jaedong should rip it open next time he's on camera and then win his match in spectacular fashion.
For some reason I doubt he has ever tried a monster before, especially the green one on his table there.
i'm pretty sure idra doesn't drink 100% monster when he is on stream, like that can't be healthy....
Yeah, more than likely his open monsters on stream are for show, however I bet at first all of the EG house guys went crazy on them until they realized they were experiencing unexplained heart palpitations and stopped drinking them.
unless you're drinking like 3 monsters a day in a short period of time, you could have a serious heart problem if you're getting heart palpitations from monsters lol.
On February 26 2013 16:02 sparklyresidue wrote: Wow, getting away with double hatch before pool ZvP must feel great... can't say I've ever managed to do it.
On February 26 2013 15:56 i.of.the.storm wrote: Lol at the unopened monster, that's pretty hilarious. Jaedong should rip it open next time he's on camera and then win his match in spectacular fashion.
For some reason I doubt he has ever tried a monster before, especially the green one on his table there.
i'm pretty sure idra doesn't drink 100% monster when he is on stream, like that can't be healthy....
Yeah, more than likely his open monsters on stream are for show, however I bet at first all of the EG house guys went crazy on them until they realized they were experiencing unexplained heart palpitations and stopped drinking them.
unless you're drinking like 3 monsters a day in a short period of time, you could have a serious heart problem if you're getting heart palpitations from monsters lol.
as someone who drinks way too much soda in college, the sugar in energy drinks is a big problem as well
On February 26 2013 16:08 Swords wrote: Myungsik played this really well (THOSE MINDGAMES!), but losing those queens so easily and now throwing away infestors was pretty poor by JD.
no he didn't, anybody could have done what he did.
JD messed up though and let a far worse player win
On February 26 2013 16:08 Swords wrote: Myungsik played this really well (THOSE MINDGAMES!), but losing those queens so easily and now throwing away infestors was pretty poor by JD.
no he didn't, anybody could have done what he did.
JD messed up though and let a far worse player win
Jaedong is trash in SC2. Myungsik is the better player in this.
On February 26 2013 16:09 sparklyresidue wrote: Hmm, I believed, even if just for a minute. I guess 79 drones vs. a 2 base all in is a bit ambitious even with that opener...
The problem is it looked exactly like a super fast 3rd base until he scouted it with the overseer.
On February 26 2013 15:30 suicideyear wrote: looking back, i feel like eg-tl should have known protoss is not the strongest on neo arkanoid but i don't really associate them with common sense at this point
Common sense is not Proleague sense. Please excuse me while I yell out through a window.
On February 26 2013 16:11 i.of.the.storm wrote: Man... that was pretty sad. Myungsik played pretty well though. Jaedong was just caught so off guard
Yeah, that was beautiful play by Myungsik, so credit to him for a very solid attack, but that game was really Jaedong's to lose. He fell for that fake hook, line, and sinker.
How can you expect a complete rookie to play a macro game vs you??? Why not just be extra same w/ scouting and making units instead of being greedy vs a player you could easily beat in a normal game...
On February 26 2013 16:13 HotGlueGun wrote: How can you expect a complete rookie to play a macro game vs you??? Why not just be extra same w/ scouting and making units instead of being greedy vs a player you could easily beat in a normal game...
why are so many people talking like Jaedong is playing any good games in SC2? and is superior to so many players?
On February 26 2013 16:09 sparklyresidue wrote: Hmm, I believed, even if just for a minute. I guess 79 drones vs. a 2 base all in is a bit ambitious even with that opener...
The problem is it looked exactly like a super fast 3rd base until he scouted it with the overseer.
I know man, I was watching and screaming at my monitor "NOOO JAEDONG, STOP DRONING".
On February 26 2013 16:13 HotGlueGun wrote: How can you expect a complete rookie to play a macro game vs you??? Why not just be extra same w/ scouting and making units instead of being greedy vs a player you could easily beat in a normal game...
All the KeSPA players are pretty experienced in SC2 now. At least, that's how we should treat most of them. I'm not convinced that JD is the superior player.
On February 26 2013 16:13 HotGlueGun wrote: How can you expect a complete rookie to play a macro game vs you??? Why not just be extra same w/ scouting and making units instead of being greedy vs a player you could easily beat in a normal game...
why ar eso many peopel talking like Jaedong is playing any good games in SC2?
On February 26 2013 16:13 HotGlueGun wrote: How can you expect a complete rookie to play a macro game vs you??? Why not just be extra same w/ scouting and making units instead of being greedy vs a player you could easily beat in a normal game...
why ar eso many peopel talking like Jaedong is playing any good games in SC2?
He was good in the beginning but plateaued almost immediately. He hasn't really grown into the game any more in the past few months.
Also Myungsik didn't play very well; it was only adequate (to get the win). He should have had that in the very first push, but was too indecisive and kept dancing his units around.
On February 26 2013 16:13 HotGlueGun wrote: How can you expect a complete rookie to play a macro game vs you??? Why not just be extra same w/ scouting and making units instead of being greedy vs a player you could easily beat in a normal game...
why ar eso many peopel talking like Jaedong is playing any good games in SC2?
On February 26 2013 16:13 HotGlueGun wrote: How can you expect a complete rookie to play a macro game vs you??? Why not just be extra same w/ scouting and making units instead of being greedy vs a player you could easily beat in a normal game...
why ar eso many peopel talking like Jaedong is playing any good games in SC2?
On February 26 2013 16:13 HotGlueGun wrote: How can you expect a complete rookie to play a macro game vs you??? Why not just be extra same w/ scouting and making units instead of being greedy vs a player you could easily beat in a normal game...
why ar eso many peopel talking like Jaedong is playing any good games in SC2?
He was good in the beginning but plateaued almost immediately. He hasn't really grown into the game any more in the past few months.
Also Myungsik didn't play very well; it was only adequate (to get the win). He should have had that in the very first push, but was too indecisive and kept dancing his units around.
He won the kingston hyperX tournament beating MC, youngwha and was 1 win away from code S losing 1-2 to somebody, then in both up and downs he was 1 game away from code S as well. His results in proleague haven't been so hot the past month but jesus that kingston tournament was barely a month ago he's fine.
JD good at ZvZ because his mechanics are so fast. However, he's bad in other matchups cause he doesn't think what his opponents might do, and doesn't scout. This separates him from Stephano
On February 26 2013 16:13 HotGlueGun wrote: How can you expect a complete rookie to play a macro game vs you??? Why not just be extra same w/ scouting and making units instead of being greedy vs a player you could easily beat in a normal game...
why ar eso many peopel talking like Jaedong is playing any good games in SC2?
He was good in the beginning but plateaued almost immediately. He hasn't really grown into the game any more in the past few months.
Also Myungsik didn't play very well; it was only adequate (to get the win). He should have had that in the very first push, but was too indecisive and kept dancing his units around.
He won the kingston hyperX tournament beating MC, youngwha and was 1 win away from code S losing 1-2 to somebody, then in both up and downs he was 1 game away from code S as well. His results in proleague haven't been so hot the past month but jesus that kingston tournament was barely a month ago he's fine.
I really don't feel like he's improved at all recently, even in the HyperX tournament. I suppose I just expected more from him and this comes more as disappointment. I really thought he was one of the better Zergs at the beginning, and I remember a game on Antiga in particular where he individually cast fungals and shift-queued his infestors back.
He's just not suited to the generally passive style ;;
Honestly I've been dying to see him try the Hydra push into mutas, as it lets him fend off immortal sentry and transitions into mutalisks which he is normally pretty great with. I'm sure he knows better than me about what builds work for him but still...do want ;(
Why did the casters still didnt improve ? Why are they still that bad ? Still talking about random stuff ? That's not bashing really, its really an issue. Spending all their time like that.
On February 26 2013 16:28 JyB wrote: Why did the casters still didnt improve ? Why are they still that bad ? Still talking about random stuff ? That's not bashing really, its really an issue. Spending all their time like that.
seriously...it's random stuff that isn't funny as well just awkward as hell
Someone please explain to me the EGTL coach's reasoning on putting a zerg on entombed(P favored), protoss on arkanoid(T/Z favored, note jyp is also bad at PvT), and then puma on planet S which would have fit one of EGTL's zergs much better?
On February 26 2013 16:32 terriBean wrote: Someone please explain to me the EGTL coach's reasoning on putting a zerg on entombed(P favored), protoss on arkanoid(T/Z favored, note jyp is also bad at PvT), and then puma on planet S which would have fit one of EGTL's zergs much better?
it really makes no sense
Avoid mirror matchups in X favored maps. EGTL players aren't great at their mirrors (Stephano, PvP, etc).
that colossus was such a good psyche out , stephano went for corrupters but it didn't matter cause he only had 1 and then built more archons ... very smart!
On February 26 2013 16:32 terriBean wrote: Someone please explain to me the EGTL coach's reasoning on putting a zerg on entombed(P favored), protoss on arkanoid(T/Z favored, note jyp is also bad at PvT), and then puma on planet S which would have fit one of EGTL's zergs much better?
it really makes no sense
Avoid mirror matchups in X favored maps. EGTL players aren't great at their mirrors (Stephano, PvP, etc).
so instead of practicing their mirrors, they just avoid it altogether and then get swept because they're fighting uphill battles that favor their opponent's races. makes perfect sense
I like the fact that protoss players are coming to zergs with a lot of new timing pushes before the Brood Lords are out. WoL meta is still evolving 2 weeks before its death
That didn't look like Stephano, his play seemed so lost the entire game. This is so weird to see stephano play like that, it just didnt seem right. Well played by Stats though.
gotta say it looks like Stephano was right though. his style isn't doing so well when a bunch of top level koreans have time to study and prepare for him.
Something tells me that these kepsa teams haven't even touched HoTS. Look how fast they were able to adjust to SC2. Where as EG and TL have probably been urging their players to prep for HoTS as well as proleague. This is probably why the team has fallen off.
If only Stephano went roaches, and punished the third expo. He spent so much on useless lings, when he could of droned, which is normal when u see phoenixes.
On February 26 2013 16:32 terriBean wrote: Someone please explain to me the EGTL coach's reasoning on putting a zerg on entombed(P favored), protoss on arkanoid(T/Z favored, note jyp is also bad at PvT), and then puma on planet S which would have fit one of EGTL's zergs much better?
it really makes no sense
Avoid mirror matchups in X favored maps. EGTL players aren't great at their mirrors (Stephano, PvP, etc).
so instead of practicing their mirrors, they just avoid it altogether and then get swept because they're fighting uphill battles that favor their opponent's races. makes perfect sense
Well I don't agree with the strategy, but it's the only reason not to send X on a heavily X favored map.
It has to be something with the way the team is doing things. Even HuK tweeted that there would have to be big changes for EG-TL to do well in proleague. There's just too many data points of players failing once they join this organization now.
On February 26 2013 16:40 EnderCraft wrote: Something tells me that these kepsa teams haven't even touched HoTS. Look how fast they were able to adjust to SC2. Where as EG and TL have probably been urging their players to prep for HoTS as well as proleague. This is probably why the team has fallen off.
and since they were able to adapt to a totally new game this fast, they will adapt to an expansion which basically just changes the balance of units, etc and doesn't require learning an entirely new skillset, I think they will be fine.
On February 26 2013 16:37 Mysticesper wrote: Stephano just doesn't look very happy in Korea.
Nobody will be happy while losing.
I think he is just having a hard time living down there -- culture shock, etc. Because of this, he just is having a hard time performing, as opposed to an environment that he actually enjoys being in (Europe). There is the preparation-style too, which doesn't mesh well with Stephano's play, both for him and against him.
Why does EG-TL play so bad?? They theoretically have the strongest lineup. TaeJa is a monster when in good health, HerO destroys when he's not feeling down, Stephano is Stephano, JYP kinda sucks but meh, Jaedong is supposed to be really good with all the hype surrounding him.. But he just ends up dissapointing.
On February 26 2013 16:40 EnderCraft wrote: Something tells me that these kepsa teams haven't even touched HoTS. Look how fast they were able to adjust to SC2. Where as EG and TL have probably been urging their players to prep for HoTS as well as proleague. This is probably why the team has fallen off.
and since they were able to adapt to a totally new game this fast, they will adapt to an expansion which basically just changes the balance of units, etc and doesn't require learning an entirely new skillset, I think they will be fine.
Yeah, if that is seriously their strategy, it is a bad strategy. They're trading a few weeks of bad results for a few weeks of good results even if it goes perfectly.
On February 26 2013 16:40 BakedButters wrote: If only Stephano went roaches, and punished the third expo. He spent so much on useless lings, when he could of droned, which is normal when u see phoenixes.
He had 70+ drones on those 3 bases despite constant phoenix harass.
It was just a really well planned composition from Stats. Ling heavy melee ups into Ultra looked like Stephano's plan, so he went chargelot archon (with colossus vs Infestor and to delay hive by forcing corruptors). When Stephano switched to roaches Stats was warping in only Stalkers.
On February 26 2013 16:43 SAFenix wrote: Why does EG-TL play so bad?? They theoretically have the strongest lineup. TaeJa is a monster when in good health, HerO destroys when he's not feeling down, Stephano is Stephano, JYP kinda sucks but meh, Jaedong is supposed to be really good with all the hype surrounding him.. But he just ends up dissapointing.
They don't have a strong lineup, they only have an average lineup compared to other teams, probably only better than Team 8 and STX.
On February 26 2013 16:39 TheEmulator wrote: Not EG-TL's night I guess.
They already had quite a few nights like that ^^
Honestly I don't understand why anyone could seriously think that EG-TL was favored to win this proleague. A brand new team training in a team house for the first time with foreigners in it against Kespa pro-teams which have been training and playing with this format for years and years ? Really ?
Well if there's one good thing u can say about EGTL, it's that they can make any team look good. KT were 0-5 this round coming into this match but now they are looking like champions again.
i really dont get how EG-TL can preform so badly, not like i expected them to win the PL, but come on, their Korean lineup alone should be a force to reckon with, and there are the top foreigners and best community and financial support there is to boot it. They pretty much have anything (beside being together for a long time as a team) that one might need to preform well and still....
On February 26 2013 16:43 SAFenix wrote: Why does EG-TL play so bad?? They theoretically have the strongest lineup. TaeJa is a monster when in good health, HerO destroys when he's not feeling down, Stephano is Stephano, JYP kinda sucks but meh, Jaedong is supposed to be really good with all the hype surrounding him.. But he just ends up dissapointing.
I remember when the announcement came out, I mentioned that EGTL is a team that would do well in GSTL but not Proleague, and that they'd flounder. No one agreed with me. Too lazy to explain again.
On February 26 2013 16:40 EnderCraft wrote: Something tells me that these kepsa teams haven't even touched HoTS. Look how fast they were able to adjust to SC2. Where as EG and TL have probably been urging their players to prep for HoTS as well as proleague. This is probably why the team has fallen off.
You can't fall off when you were never doing well.
On February 26 2013 16:43 SAFenix wrote: Why does EG-TL play so bad?? They theoretically have the strongest lineup. TaeJa is a monster when in good health, HerO destroys when he's not feeling down, Stephano is Stephano, JYP kinda sucks but meh, Jaedong is supposed to be really good with all the hype surrounding him.. But he just ends up dissapointing.
It's actually very simple, EGTL's coach is a moron and puts his players on maps that favor their opponent's races in an effort to avoid mirrors. It's been proven numerous times that his plan doesn't work yet he keeps doing it. HerO/JYP should have been on entombed, Jaedong on Caldeum, Puma on Arkanoid, Revival on Planet S and JYP/HerO on Akilon.
Instead he makes stupid moves like putting protoss on arkanoid rofl. or even dumber, putting a zerg on entombed
On February 26 2013 16:43 SAFenix wrote: Why does EG-TL play so bad?? They theoretically have the strongest lineup. TaeJa is a monster when in good health, HerO destroys when he's not feeling down, Stephano is Stephano, JYP kinda sucks but meh, Jaedong is supposed to be really good with all the hype surrounding him.. But he just ends up dissapointing.
It's actually very simple, EGTL's coach is a moron and puts his players on maps that favor their opponent's races in an effort to avoid mirrors. It's been proven numerous times that his plan doesn't work yet he keeps doing it. HerO/JYP should have been on entombed, Jaedong on Caldeum, Puma on Arkanoid, Revival on Planet S and JYP/HerO on Akilon.
Instead he makes stupid moves like putting protoss on arkanoid rofl. or even dumber, putting a zerg on entombed
Or a Terran on Neo Planet S when they have HerO available and both P matchups are P favored.
On February 26 2013 16:39 TheEmulator wrote: Not EG-TL's night I guess.
They already had quite a few nights like that ^^
Honestly I don't understand why anyone could seriously think that EG-TL was favored to win this proleague. A brand new team training in a team house for the first time with foreigners in it against Kespa pro-teams which have been training and playing with this format for years and years ? Really ?
but all those wise scholars on TL tipped them to win...??!?
On February 26 2013 16:40 EnderCraft wrote: Something tells me that these kepsa teams haven't even touched HoTS. Look how fast they were able to adjust to SC2. Where as EG and TL have probably been urging their players to prep for HoTS as well as proleague. This is probably why the team has fallen off.
You can't fall off when you were never doing well.
Yeah, but they were never doing THIS bad. EGTL has great players... I wonder if there is a correlation between how much they've been asked to play HoTS and their performance in proleague.
So far the Koreans who played HoTS I have seen are mind melded too it, I cannot see 99% of foreigners beat Polt right now he is beyond sick. Watching his 4 pronged turbo boosted medivac drops with widow mines and his macro is so sick it gives me cancer just watching it.
I am going to call out the environment a bit, who wants to play in bright florescent rooms with almost 0 crowd with as much hype as a public library and with less atmosphere and the crowd that is there is pro-Korean won't root for you and its gotta be such a anti-inspirational place like trying to win in the middle of a Best Buy with shoppers shuffling around you. When you are down where are you supposed to find your inspiration? Jesus?
I guess EGTL is full of individualist that does not understand teamwork, after numerous failure learned their lesson and make the biggest comeback ever to get 4th place in the playoffs.
Then, they head off to a training camp and disappeared to learn what it takes to take the final. After some accidents, player bonded and trust each other! Come back, and makes it to the Grand Final!
Then, on the day of the match, down 3-2,their last key player went missing. At the LAST minute of disqualification he makes the best entrance and takes the team to the ACE MATCH!
Then, by miracle and a back and forth game. EGTL, sadly, lost but got 2nd place and became one of the best pro league team ever.
In Jaedong's 377 team league games in broodwar, his worst losing streak ever was 4 games. After his 5 game loss streak today, Jaedong is in the biggest team league slump of his 7 year career!
Of course this is more a testament to just how fucking incredible JD was back then to never streak that badly before.
On February 26 2013 17:04 EnderCraft wrote: SO dirty... Just sending that contingency of lings during that engagement. Of course Puma's attention is going to be elsewhere. Brilliant play.
I'm pretty sure he just a-moved all his forces to Puma's main, and the south group of lings killed their tanks and ran out of targets until they found the SCVs at the natural.
On February 26 2013 17:04 EnderCraft wrote: SO dirty... Just sending that contingency of lings during that engagement. Of course Puma's attention is going to be elsewhere. Brilliant play.
I'm pretty sure he just a-moved all his forces to Puma's main, and the south group of lings killed their tanks and ran out of targets until they found the SCVs at the natural.
On February 26 2013 17:07 AlternativeEgo wrote: Wasn't expecting to get any Carno points today. Nice bonus, but what's up with Stephanos game nowadays?
On February 26 2013 17:16 Random_0 wrote: Wish I had loaded up on more EG-TL players for my anti-team. Would've been laughing all the way to my new profile icon.
EG-TL has to field their best roster every day with their heavy guns first. Send Stephano, Taeja, Hero, and Jaedong first Revival/JYP as secondary.
Stop screwing around and sending Thorzain/Puma/Zenio/Huk because they have even a lower chance of winning. Teams like KT and WJS can send out b leagues and rookies because they have the leverage and cushion, EG-TL does not
On February 26 2013 17:15 NightOfTheDead wrote: Why do EG keep Puma if he doesnt care about wining? He actually acknolewdged this himself in several interviews.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I get the feeling EG doesn't care about results so long as their players are popular. After all, it's popularity that attracts sponsor money.
I´m a huge fan of EG-TL and thus entitled to them winning. When they lose I´m personally offended, while they probably love losing, just to spite me. I want an apology from my favorite team, because that´s what real fans are like.
On February 26 2013 17:15 NightOfTheDead wrote: Why do EG keep Puma if he doesnt care about wining? He actually acknolewdged this himself in several interviews.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I get the feeling EG doesn't care about results so long as their players are popular. After all, it's popularity that attracts sponsor money.
If they keep losing they will lose popularity, though.
On February 26 2013 17:15 NightOfTheDead wrote: Why do EG keep Puma if he doesnt care about wining? He actually acknolewdged this himself in several interviews.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I get the feeling EG doesn't care about results so long as their players are popular. After all, it's popularity that attracts sponsor money.
If they keep losing they will lose popularity, though.
"Popular" was probably the wrong word. More like "Well known;" people know PuMa for being someone that cheesed his way to a lot of money and then never did much else. Even if they despite him, they know who he is.
On February 26 2013 17:15 NightOfTheDead wrote: Why do EG keep Puma if he doesnt care about wining? He actually acknolewdged this himself in several interviews.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I get the feeling EG doesn't care about results so long as their players are popular. After all, it's popularity that attracts sponsor money.
If they keep losing they will lose popularity, though.
Was it EG that stated that their business model is more than just about winning? Or am I remembering some other team?
On February 26 2013 17:15 NightOfTheDead wrote: Why do EG keep Puma if he doesnt care about wining? He actually acknolewdged this himself in several interviews.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I get the feeling EG doesn't care about results so long as their players are popular. After all, it's popularity that attracts sponsor money.
If they keep losing they will lose popularity, though.
Was it EG that stated that their business model is more than just about winning? Or am I remembering some other team?
"Founded in 1999, Evil Geniuses (Team EG) have grown to become a leading new media agency which specializes in contracting pro gamers, executing online and offline broadcasts, and developing unique marketing initiatives aimed at attracting and influencing gamers worldwide."
On February 26 2013 17:15 NightOfTheDead wrote: Why do EG keep Puma if he doesnt care about wining? He actually acknolewdged this himself in several interviews.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I get the feeling EG doesn't care about results so long as their players are popular. After all, it's popularity that attracts sponsor money.
EG-TL doesn't actually have that good of a roster - -Jaedong hasn't improved to the point he needs to yet -Revival did well at the start but has done poorly after that -Hero, Taeja, and Stephano are the best on the team and everyone else is just average or below average in terms of skill - The lineup doesn't have the depth it needs to win in proleague -Taeja is in GSL so that just leaves hero and stephano has the aces
On February 26 2013 17:22 berf wrote: Does Huk still show up to Proleague?
On February 26 2013 17:15 NightOfTheDead wrote: Why do EG keep Puma if he doesnt care about wining? He actually acknolewdged this himself in several interviews.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I get the feeling EG doesn't care about results so long as their players are popular. After all, it's popularity that attracts sponsor money.
Literally the biggest retard on this site.
well, you know, there's a reason why grubby can pull sponsor money, while someone like yoda or symbol wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell. popularity matters!
On February 26 2013 17:15 NightOfTheDead wrote: Why do EG keep Puma if he doesnt care about wining? He actually acknolewdged this himself in several interviews.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I get the feeling EG doesn't care about results so long as their players are popular. After all, it's popularity that attracts sponsor money.
Literally the biggest retard on this site.
Thats not the spirit we post on Teamliquid with. Guess you won't stay long if you don't manner up
On February 26 2013 17:26 Fionn wrote: They're just tanking to get the #1 pick in the Proleague draft. I hear there is a Korea kid in high school who is the next Flash.
On February 26 2013 17:25 aoe2fan wrote: I am not a fan of egtl but i still feel a bit sad for them. Not as fun cheering for them to lose when they dont put up a strugle
I like EGTL a lot, but I know what you mean. I was never a Bisu fan, but I loved that he was so good because that made it that much more exciting when someone actually beat him. Now I'd never root against him because it's just sad that he's fallen so far.
EG is now 29-45 (39% ouch) while TL is 18-20. Of course TL have fewer players in Korea so they obviously end up playing fewer games, and don't have to play lower tier players as much to fill out the roster (except Zenio, lol).
On February 26 2013 17:20 LighT. wrote: EG-TL has to field their best roster every day with their heavy guns first. Send Stephano, Taeja, Hero, and Jaedong first Revival/JYP as secondary.
Stop screwing around and sending Thorzain/Puma/Zenio/Huk because they have even a lower chance of winning. Teams like KT and WJS can send out b leagues and rookies because they have the leverage and cushion, EG-TL does not
HOW can peopel still add Jaedong to the heavy gun list? fucking blows my mind. and with the stats. JYP is one of the Heavy guns for EGTL.
Stephano and JD also lost today. so stop acting like its a seedings fault.
On February 26 2013 17:15 NightOfTheDead wrote: Why do EG keep Puma if he doesnt care about wining? He actually acknolewdged this himself in several interviews.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I get the feeling EG doesn't care about results so long as their players are popular. After all, it's popularity that attracts sponsor money.
Literally the biggest retard on this site.
well, you know, there's a reason why grubby can pull sponsor money, while someone like yoda or symbol wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell. popularity matters!
well, you know, you could not understand anything about how the business works and fail completely like TL does in SC2 now
EG-TL's lineup is not deep enough. Stephano, HerO and Taeja are pretty good, they can be ace or second ace in other teams, but the other players won't get to play much in other teams. The other teams' second tier players are so much better.
On February 26 2013 17:23 NovemberstOrm wrote: EG-TL doesn't actually have that good of a roster - -Jaedong hasn't improved to the point he needs to yet -Revival did well at the start but has done poorly after that -Hero, Taeja, and Stephano are the best on the team and everyone else is just average or below average in terms of skill - The lineup doesn't have the depth it needs to win in proleague -Taeja is in GSL so that just leaves hero and stephano has the aces
On February 26 2013 17:25 aoe2fan wrote: I am not a fan of egtl but i still feel a bit sad for them. Not as fun cheering for them to lose when they dont put up a strugle
I like EGTL a lot, but I know what you mean. I was never a Bisu fan, but I loved that he was so good because that made it that much more exciting when someone actually beat him. Now I'd never root against him because it's just sad that he's fallen so far.
On February 26 2013 17:15 NightOfTheDead wrote: Why do EG keep Puma if he doesnt care about wining? He actually acknolewdged this himself in several interviews.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I get the feeling EG doesn't care about results so long as their players are popular. After all, it's popularity that attracts sponsor money.
Literally the biggest retard on this site.
well, you know, there's a reason why grubby can pull sponsor money, while someone like yoda or symbol wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell. popularity matters!
To be fair, Grubby got that popular because of his achievements in WC3 and has done decently in SC2. Although it is true that some players get popular due to their stream, personality , humor, ceremonies, etc. Most players still gain popularity by winning.
On February 26 2013 17:15 NightOfTheDead wrote: Why do EG keep Puma if he doesnt care about wining? He actually acknolewdged this himself in several interviews.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I get the feeling EG doesn't care about results so long as their players are popular. After all, it's popularity that attracts sponsor money.
If they keep losing they will lose popularity, though.
No they won't. Idra doesn't win anything and he's still EG's most popular player or behind only stephano. I can't tell who has more fanboys, Idra or Stephano, since they both have a pretty vocal fanbase.
Alex garfield has said it himself. No sponsor has ever come to him complaining about results. EG is a marketing team first and competition team second. As long as they stream and keep themselves popular, results don't matter.
On February 26 2013 17:26 Fionn wrote: They're just tanking to get the #1 pick in the Proleague draft. I hear there is a Korea kid in high school who is the next Flash.
Oh I've head of him too. His name is IIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ..!
On February 26 2013 17:15 NightOfTheDead wrote: Why do EG keep Puma if he doesnt care about wining? He actually acknolewdged this himself in several interviews.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I get the feeling EG doesn't care about results so long as their players are popular. After all, it's popularity that attracts sponsor money.
If they keep losing they will lose popularity, though.
No they won't. Idra doesn't win anything and he's still EG's most popular player or behind only stephano. I can't tell who has more fanboys, Idra or Stephano, since they both have a pretty vocal fanbase.
Idra is foreigner Flash in BW, so that makes sense.
It is so sad that a team like EG can make so much money for playing so bad while there are other korean pros that dont get a sponsor although there are so much better. Í wish the sponsors would give more money to tournaments and less to teams so they would have to perform to stay a progamer. And it would be better for the esport, for the viewers.
On February 26 2013 17:15 NightOfTheDead wrote: Why do EG keep Puma if he doesnt care about wining? He actually acknolewdged this himself in several interviews.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I get the feeling EG doesn't care about results so long as their players are popular. After all, it's popularity that attracts sponsor money.
If they keep losing they will lose popularity, though.
No they won't. Idra doesn't win anything and he's still EG's most popular player or behind only stephano. I can't tell who has more fanboys, Idra or Stephano, since they both have a pretty vocal fanbase.
Alex garfield has said it himself. No sponsor has ever come to him complaining about results. EG is a marketing team first and competition team second. As long as they stream and keep themselves popular, results don't matter.
Are you sure? I remember this as well but didn't want to state it as fact since I don't remember the source.
Watching EG;TL has made me question if I want to watch SC2 anymore. Seeing this has made me literally queasy especially the way Puma got played with like a mouse. No this is not a retiring post or anything like that, still love SC2 and I know I wouldn't be missed anyway.
I have just been watching DOTA2 and rooting for TL and they are awesome in that game, so beautiful to watch. DOTA2 scene is far more competitive it appears, it lets Euro's and USA breathe and exist in peace (China aren't required to show how much we suck every day), team aspect is more cohesive. Beginning to far prefer DOTA2 lately.
SC2 is a better game skill-wise but the scene is depressing me with "fans" who want to jump in progamers throat to make themselves feel better and stale strategies with low chance of comebacks, DOTA2 seems like mostly way more positive and easier to come back from a bad beat.
Anyway I am just saying. I am just depressed I'll be all right later.
On February 26 2013 17:15 NightOfTheDead wrote: Why do EG keep Puma if he doesnt care about wining? He actually acknolewdged this himself in several interviews.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I get the feeling EG doesn't care about results so long as their players are popular. After all, it's popularity that attracts sponsor money.
If they keep losing they will lose popularity, though.
No they won't. Idra doesn't win anything and he's still EG's most popular player or behind only stephano. I can't tell who has more fanboys, Idra or Stephano, since they both have a pretty vocal fanbase.
Alex garfield has said it himself. No sponsor has ever come to him complaining about results. EG is a marketing team first and competition team second. As long as they stream and keep themselves popular, results don't matter.
Are you sure? I remember this as well but didn't want to state it as fact since I don't remember the source.
He said the sponsor part, but I wrote the other stuff myself.
On February 26 2013 17:26 Fionn wrote: They're just tanking to get the #1 pick in the Proleague draft. I hear there is a Korea kid in high school who is the next Flash.
On February 26 2013 17:15 NightOfTheDead wrote: Why do EG keep Puma if he doesnt care about wining? He actually acknolewdged this himself in several interviews.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I get the feeling EG doesn't care about results so long as their players are popular. After all, it's popularity that attracts sponsor money.
Literally the biggest retard on this site.
well, you know, there's a reason why grubby can pull sponsor money, while someone like yoda or symbol wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell. popularity matters!
well, you know, you could not understand anything about how the business works and fail completely like TL does in SC2 now
On February 26 2013 17:15 NightOfTheDead wrote: Why do EG keep Puma if he doesnt care about wining? He actually acknolewdged this himself in several interviews.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I get the feeling EG doesn't care about results so long as their players are popular. After all, it's popularity that attracts sponsor money.
Literally the biggest retard on this site.
well, you know, there's a reason why grubby can pull sponsor money, while someone like yoda or symbol wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell. popularity matters!
well, you know, you could not understand anything about how the business works and fail completely like TL does in SC2 now
On February 26 2013 17:36 WoodLeagueAllStar wrote: Watching EG;TL has made me question if I want to watch SC2 anymore. Seeing this has made me literally queasy especially the way Puma got played with like a mouse. No this is not a retiring post or anything like that, still love SC2 and I know I wouldn't be missed anyway.
I have just been watching DOTA2 and rooting for TL and they are awesome in that game, so beautiful to watch. DOTA2 scene is far more competitive it appears, it lets Euro's and USA breathe and exist in peace (China aren't required to show how much we suck every day), team aspect is more cohesive. Beginning to far prefer DOTA2 lately.
SC2 is a better game skill-wise but the scene is depressing me with "fans" who want to jump in progamers throat to make themselves feel better and stale strategies with low chance of comebacks, DOTA2 seems like mostly way more positive and easier to come back from a bad beat.
Anyway I am just saying. I am just depressed I'll be all right later.
I've been watching TL's DotA 2 team also and they only have two good players... Not beautiful to watch at all. They're SC2 team is way better than their current DotA 2 team and as a follower of both I can tell you DotA 2's scene is NOT far more competitive. It might be one day but at its current state it absolutely is not. SC2 is fine, Puma and other players need to step it up but don't analyze one team (of either esport) and think that's the whole scene. There are other teams to root for in proleague if you're disappointed in EG-TL.
On February 26 2013 17:15 NightOfTheDead wrote: Why do EG keep Puma if he doesnt care about wining? He actually acknolewdged this himself in several interviews.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I get the feeling EG doesn't care about results so long as their players are popular. After all, it's popularity that attracts sponsor money.
If they keep losing they will lose popularity, though.
they gain popularity because they always lose. infamously known. win or lose, they came here for exposure and experience. what matters most is you learn something from being defeated.
On February 26 2013 17:36 WoodLeagueAllStar wrote: Watching EG;TL has made me question if I want to watch SC2 anymore. Seeing this has made me literally queasy especially the way Puma got played with like a mouse. No this is not a retiring post or anything like that, still love SC2 and I know I wouldn't be missed anyway.
I have just been watching DOTA2 and rooting for TL and they are awesome in that game, so beautiful to watch. DOTA2 scene is far more competitive it appears, it lets Euro's and USA breathe and exist in peace (China aren't required to show how much we suck every day), team aspect is more cohesive. Beginning to far prefer DOTA2 lately.
SC2 is a better game skill-wise but the scene is depressing me with "fans" who want to jump in progamers throat to make themselves feel better and stale strategies with low chance of comebacks, DOTA2 seems like mostly way more positive and easier to come back from a bad beat.
Anyway I am just saying. I am just depressed I'll be all right later.
This is just my opinion, but DOTA2 is a bad game. There are many fans of this game however, this I still cannot comprehend. I used to like LOL much more in terms of difficulty and skill cap. DOTA2 can be good for a start but it is surely not a cyber-sport discipline, not in any aspect.
On February 26 2013 17:36 WoodLeagueAllStar wrote: Watching EG;TL has made me question if I want to watch SC2 anymore. Seeing this has made me literally queasy especially the way Puma got played with like a mouse. No this is not a retiring post or anything like that, still love SC2 and I know I wouldn't be missed anyway.
I have just been watching DOTA2 and rooting for TL and they are awesome in that game, so beautiful to watch. DOTA2 scene is far more competitive it appears, it lets Euro's and USA breathe and exist in peace (China aren't required to show how much we suck every day), team aspect is more cohesive. Beginning to far prefer DOTA2 lately.
SC2 is a better game skill-wise but the scene is depressing me with "fans" who want to jump in progamers throat to make themselves feel better and stale strategies with low chance of comebacks, DOTA2 seems like mostly way more positive and easier to come back from a bad beat.
Anyway I am just saying. I am just depressed I'll be all right later.
This is just my opinion, but DOTA2 is a bad game. There are many fans of this game however, this I still cannot comprehend. I used to like LOL much more in terms of difficulty and skill cap. DOTA2 can be good for a start but it is surely not a cyber-sport discipline, not in any aspect.
wow, strange to hear someone say that LOL is a better game in terms of difficulty and skill cap, it's often said the other way around
This is just painful to watch. What amazes me most is a fact, that noone on EG or TL team is addresing this horrible level performance. Either they need to make some changes or they better just quit.
On February 26 2013 17:36 WoodLeagueAllStar wrote: Watching EG;TL has made me question if I want to watch SC2 anymore. Seeing this has made me literally queasy especially the way Puma got played with like a mouse. No this is not a retiring post or anything like that, still love SC2 and I know I wouldn't be missed anyway.
I have just been watching DOTA2 and rooting for TL and they are awesome in that game, so beautiful to watch. DOTA2 scene is far more competitive it appears, it lets Euro's and USA breathe and exist in peace (China aren't required to show how much we suck every day), team aspect is more cohesive. Beginning to far prefer DOTA2 lately.
SC2 is a better game skill-wise but the scene is depressing me with "fans" who want to jump in progamers throat to make themselves feel better and stale strategies with low chance of comebacks, DOTA2 seems like mostly way more positive and easier to come back from a bad beat.
Anyway I am just saying. I am just depressed I'll be all right later.
This is just my opinion, but DOTA2 is a bad game. There are many fans of this game however, this I still cannot comprehend. I used to like LOL much more in terms of difficulty and skill cap. DOTA2 can be good for a start but it is surely not a cyber-sport discipline, not in any aspect.
This was almost as funny as waking up to another 0-4 for EG-TL
On February 26 2013 17:36 WoodLeagueAllStar wrote: Watching EG;TL has made me question if I want to watch SC2 anymore. Seeing this has made me literally queasy especially the way Puma got played with like a mouse. No this is not a retiring post or anything like that, still love SC2 and I know I wouldn't be missed anyway.
I have just been watching DOTA2 and rooting for TL and they are awesome in that game, so beautiful to watch. DOTA2 scene is far more competitive it appears, it lets Euro's and USA breathe and exist in peace (China aren't required to show how much we suck every day), team aspect is more cohesive. Beginning to far prefer DOTA2 lately.
SC2 is a better game skill-wise but the scene is depressing me with "fans" who want to jump in progamers throat to make themselves feel better and stale strategies with low chance of comebacks, DOTA2 seems like mostly way more positive and easier to come back from a bad beat.
Anyway I am just saying. I am just depressed I'll be all right later.
This is just my opinion, but DOTA2 is a bad game. There are many fans of this game however, this I still cannot comprehend. I used to like LOL much more in terms of difficulty and skill cap. DOTA2 can be good for a start but it is surely not a cyber-sport discipline, not in any aspect.
In terms of skill requirement HoN > DOTA > LoL, that's why popularity is inverse (casual gamers will flock to easier games, and that's not a veiled insult). I played and enjoyed all of those but only play HoN now because it is the fastest and most difficult.
On February 26 2013 17:36 WoodLeagueAllStar wrote: Watching EG;TL has made me question if I want to watch SC2 anymore. Seeing this has made me literally queasy especially the way Puma got played with like a mouse. No this is not a retiring post or anything like that, still love SC2 and I know I wouldn't be missed anyway.
I have just been watching DOTA2 and rooting for TL and they are awesome in that game, so beautiful to watch. DOTA2 scene is far more competitive it appears, it lets Euro's and USA breathe and exist in peace (China aren't required to show how much we suck every day), team aspect is more cohesive. Beginning to far prefer DOTA2 lately.
SC2 is a better game skill-wise but the scene is depressing me with "fans" who want to jump in progamers throat to make themselves feel better and stale strategies with low chance of comebacks, DOTA2 seems like mostly way more positive and easier to come back from a bad beat.
Anyway I am just saying. I am just depressed I'll be all right later.
This is just my opinion, but DOTA2 is a bad game. There are many fans of this game however, this I still cannot comprehend. I used to like LOL much more in terms of difficulty and skill cap. DOTA2 can be good for a start but it is surely not a cyber-sport discipline, not in any aspect.
This was almost as funny as waking up to another 0-4 for EG-TL
I have friends who once seriously played DOTA and do agree that it turned into a very forgiving and thus dull game.
On February 26 2013 17:36 WoodLeagueAllStar wrote: Watching EG;TL has made me question if I want to watch SC2 anymore. Seeing this has made me literally queasy especially the way Puma got played with like a mouse. No this is not a retiring post or anything like that, still love SC2 and I know I wouldn't be missed anyway.
I have just been watching DOTA2 and rooting for TL and they are awesome in that game, so beautiful to watch. DOTA2 scene is far more competitive it appears, it lets Euro's and USA breathe and exist in peace (China aren't required to show how much we suck every day), team aspect is more cohesive. Beginning to far prefer DOTA2 lately.
SC2 is a better game skill-wise but the scene is depressing me with "fans" who want to jump in progamers throat to make themselves feel better and stale strategies with low chance of comebacks, DOTA2 seems like mostly way more positive and easier to come back from a bad beat.
Anyway I am just saying. I am just depressed I'll be all right later.
This is just my opinion, but DOTA2 is a bad game. There are many fans of this game however, this I still cannot comprehend. I used to like LOL much more in terms of difficulty and skill cap. DOTA2 can be good for a start but it is surely not a cyber-sport discipline, not in any aspect.
In terms of skill requirement HoN > DOTA > LoL, that's why popularity is inverse (casual gamers will flock to easier games, and that's not a veiled insult). I played and enjoyed all of those but only play HoN now because it is the fastest and most difficult.
On February 26 2013 17:36 WoodLeagueAllStar wrote: Watching EG;TL has made me question if I want to watch SC2 anymore. Seeing this has made me literally queasy especially the way Puma got played with like a mouse. No this is not a retiring post or anything like that, still love SC2 and I know I wouldn't be missed anyway.
I have just been watching DOTA2 and rooting for TL and they are awesome in that game, so beautiful to watch. DOTA2 scene is far more competitive it appears, it lets Euro's and USA breathe and exist in peace (China aren't required to show how much we suck every day), team aspect is more cohesive. Beginning to far prefer DOTA2 lately.
SC2 is a better game skill-wise but the scene is depressing me with "fans" who want to jump in progamers throat to make themselves feel better and stale strategies with low chance of comebacks, DOTA2 seems like mostly way more positive and easier to come back from a bad beat.
Anyway I am just saying. I am just depressed I'll be all right later.
This is just my opinion, but DOTA2 is a bad game. There are many fans of this game however, this I still cannot comprehend. I used to like LOL much more in terms of difficulty and skill cap. DOTA2 can be good for a start but it is surely not a cyber-sport discipline, not in any aspect.
In terms of skill requirement HoN > DOTA > LoL, that's why popularity is inverse (casual gamers will flock to easier games, and that's not a veiled insult). I played and enjoyed all of those but only play HoN now because it is the fastest and most difficult.
fast doesn't mean hard.
I didn't say it is hard because it is fast. I said I liked it because it has the fastest pace and is also harder.
i can understand people saying HON is harder than dota 2 (yeah, for certain aspects, but in others dota is harder). but LoL? what.
if you played on a pro-level in both games, letian, I could be inclined to agree with you, but I'm going to take iceiceice's and hyhy's word over yours any day.
lol @ at the debate between moba's that suddenly appeared in an EG-TL proleague match thread o _ O
as for EG-TL, I hope they consider moving to GSTL or upping their game, frankly they need to take a look at what they're doing because its not working.
One thing that is interesting to me is that while map pools are fairly consistent across other leagues (GSL, Dreamhack, MLG), proleague uses their own set of maps, which could be contributing to the sadness both ways (harder for KESPA teams to practice for non KESPA events, harder for EG-TL to practice for KESPA events); it would be nice to get a consistency between the two, and then we can really see the best players come out.
On February 26 2013 17:36 WoodLeagueAllStar wrote: Watching EG;TL has made me question if I want to watch SC2 anymore. Seeing this has made me literally queasy especially the way Puma got played with like a mouse. No this is not a retiring post or anything like that, still love SC2 and I know I wouldn't be missed anyway.
I have just been watching DOTA2 and rooting for TL and they are awesome in that game, so beautiful to watch. DOTA2 scene is far more competitive it appears, it lets Euro's and USA breathe and exist in peace (China aren't required to show how much we suck every day), team aspect is more cohesive. Beginning to far prefer DOTA2 lately.
SC2 is a better game skill-wise but the scene is depressing me with "fans" who want to jump in progamers throat to make themselves feel better and stale strategies with low chance of comebacks, DOTA2 seems like mostly way more positive and easier to come back from a bad beat.
Anyway I am just saying. I am just depressed I'll be all right later.
This is just my opinion, but DOTA2 is a bad game. There are many fans of this game however, this I still cannot comprehend. I used to like LOL much more in terms of difficulty and skill cap. DOTA2 can be good for a start but it is surely not a cyber-sport discipline, not in any aspect.
In terms of skill requirement HoN > DOTA > LoL, that's why popularity is inverse (casual gamers will flock to easier games, and that's not a veiled insult). I played and enjoyed all of those but only play HoN now because it is the fastest and most difficult.
fast doesn't mean hard.
I didn't say it is hard because it is fast. I said I liked it because it has the fastest pace and is also harder.
agree. it's pretty hard to find out which hero is the most broken right now :D
EG is all marketing puppets, once the players get paid, they couldnt care less about results, as long as they get talked about and anything they do gets attention.
And now imagine if Stephano goes back to Europe/NA to grab HotS tournaments money (Why wouldn't he since Taeja already abandoned them for GSL (wrists or not)).
I am not that big of a fan of TL but I feel sad for the foreign scene since they were our best shot in Korea. T_T
Urgh, EG-TL started out like the team Bruce Willis was leading in Armageddon, the last hope against the Korean juggernaut. Except in this alternate universe Bruce Willis flies up onto the asteroid, everyone on his team dies horribly, and then the asteroid crashes into Earth and everybody else dies.
On February 26 2013 18:33 Newbistic wrote: Urgh, EG-TL started out like the team Bruce Willis was leading in Armageddon, the last hope against the Korean juggernaut. Except in this alternate universe Bruce Willis flies up onto the asteroid, everyone on his team dies horribly, and then the asteroid crashes into Earth and everybody else dies.
On February 26 2013 18:33 Newbistic wrote: Urgh, EG-TL started out like the team Bruce Willis was leading in Armageddon, the last hope against the Korean juggernaut. Except in this alternate universe Bruce Willis flies up onto the asteroid, everyone on his team dies horribly, and then the asteroid crashes into Earth and everybody else dies.
On February 26 2013 18:33 Newbistic wrote: Urgh, EG-TL started out like the team Bruce Willis was leading in Armageddon, the last hope against the Korean juggernaut. Except in this alternate universe Bruce Willis flies up onto the asteroid, everyone on his team dies horribly, and then the asteroid crashes into Earth and everybody else dies.
Just watched the vods... the saddest thing is, I am not even disappointed or something, not sure if deep down I expected the result or I just don't care anymore. Well, looking forward to round 4.
On February 26 2013 19:56 BlackCompany wrote: Can somebody give me a quick recap of what happened in the games? My timezone sucks for PL :/ Thanks in advance!
On February 26 2013 20:32 myRZeth wrote: and stephano goes to the house and continues to watch series
i m ashamed
yeah it's really quite pathetic. but it's okay because it teaches a good lesson about hard work beating talent. eg-tl and stephano will be falling further and further behind the kespa players.
On February 26 2013 19:56 BlackCompany wrote: Can somebody give me a quick recap of what happened in the games? My timezone sucks for PL :/ Thanks in advance!
JYP vs Flash - JYP goes phoenix on Arkanoid and kills 3 workers with 4 phoenix, while Flash goes standard reaper expand and kills 3 probes with his single reaper because JYP isn't paying attention. JYP transitions into colossi (4-5) and gateway with late upgrades, while Flash has a macro advantage due to his better opener and goes standard MMM but with 2 reactored Starports. Flash pulls JYP's army one way and another and snipes his third, and rides that advantage to victory.
JD vs Myungsik - Myungsik goes for a stargate opener into immortal sentry all in, while Jaedong opens 3 hatch before pool and experiences no pressure. Phoenixes pick off 3 queens but not much else. Jaedong scouts the attack late because of a fake third (gateway walloff), and has 70+ drones, but has an infestation pit and pathogen glands researching when the attack hits. Myungsik attacks tentatively and dances back and forth on the low ground between the natural and third trying to pick off units, and JD donates roaches a few times. When Myungsik finally decides to take out the third, Jaedong has infestors out and almost looks like he has enough to push the attack back, but his poor infestor control leads to 0 infestor retention, and the pressure becomes too much.
Stephano vs Stats - Stats opens phoenix, and even though Stephano scouts it he still suffers some drone damage. Stephano builds a ton of lings and Stats goes for a third even though it looked like the same build as Myungsik. Stephano tries to snipe the third but Stats holds with forcefields and zealots. Noticing how many lings Stephano is making, Stats transitions into colossi, but quickly into templar tech. He shows his two colossi to force Stephano into a spire to delay his hive, but when Stats attacks it's Chargelot-Archon, which demolishes Stephano's ling based army. Stephano tries to hold with roach reinforcements but it's too late.
Puma vs Hitman - Hitman goes for some weird 10 pool and does zero damage. They both expand, but Puma goes for an early third CC. Hitman decides to go 2 base muta, but then attacks with ling-bling while taking a third and catches Puma before siege finishes. Hitman kills 20 workers and cripples Puma's economy. Puma tries to recover on three CCs but Hitman's ling-bling-muta army has control of the entire map. Hitman basically toys with Puma from here, prolonging the game, and a few times Puma looks like he just might make a comeback, but with a huge bank, all tech paths, and infinity bases to Puma's zero mining bases, Hitman just rolls through Puma eventually.
They were all pretty one sided, although Myungsik almost lost his game due to indecisiveness.
On February 26 2013 19:56 BlackCompany wrote: Can somebody give me a quick recap of what happened in the games? My timezone sucks for PL :/ Thanks in advance!
JYP vs Flash - JYP goes phoenix on Arkanoid and kills 3 workers with 4 phoenix, while Flash goes standard reaper expand and kills 3 probes with his single reaper because JYP isn't paying attention. JYP transitions into colossi (4-5) and gateway with late upgrades, while Flash has a macro advantage due to his better opener and goes standard MMM but with 2 reactored Starports. Flash pulls JYP's army one way and another and snipes his third, and rides that advantage to victory.
JD vs Myungsik - Myungsik goes for a stargate opener into immortal sentry all in, while Jaedong opens 3 hatch before pool and experiences no pressure. Phoenixes pick off 3 queens but not much else. Jaedong scouts the attack late because of a fake third (gateway walloff), and has 70+ drones, but has an infestation pit and pathogen glands researching when the attack hits. Myungsik attacks tentatively and dances back and forth on the low ground between the natural and third trying to pick off units, and JD donates roaches a few times. When Myungsik finally decides to take out the third, Jaedong has infestors out and almost looks like he has enough to push the attack back, but his poor infestor control leads to 0 infestor retention, and the pressure becomes too much.
Stephano vs Stats - Stats opens phoenix, and even though Stephano scouts it he still suffers some drone damage. Stephano builds a ton of lings and Stats goes for a third even though it looked like the same build as Myungsik. Stephano tries to snipe the third but Stats holds with forcefields and zealots. Noticing how many lings Stephano is making, Stats transitions into colossi, but quickly into templar tech. He shows his two colossi to force Stephano into a spire to delay his hive, but when Stats attacks it's Chargelot-Archon, which demolishes Stephano's ling based army. Stephano tries to hold with roach reinforcements but it's too late.
Puma vs Hitman - Hitman goes for some weird 10 pool and does zero damage. They both expand, but Puma goes for an early third CC. Hitman decides to go 2 base muta, but then attacks with ling-bling while taking a third and catches Puma before siege finishes. Hitman kills 20 workers and cripples Puma's economy. Puma tries to recover on three CCs but Hitman's ling-bling-muta army has control of the entire map. Hitman basically toys with Puma from here, prolonging the game, and a few times Puma looks like he just might make a comeback, but with a huge bank, all tech paths, and infinity bases to Puma's zero mining bases, Hitman just rolls through Puma eventually.
They were all pretty one sided, although Myungsik almost lost his game due to indecisiveness.
Oh boy, that indeed sounds like a beatdown. Well, glad that KT finally broke their loosing streak but sad that EG-TL just cant get their shit together :/ Thanks for the recap!
On February 26 2013 17:15 NightOfTheDead wrote: Why do EG keep Puma if he doesnt care about wining? He actually acknolewdged this himself in several interviews.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I get the feeling EG doesn't care about results so long as their players are popular. After all, it's popularity that attracts sponsor money.
Literally the biggest retard on this site.
well, you know, there's a reason why grubby can pull sponsor money, while someone like yoda or symbol wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell. popularity matters!
To be fair, Grubby got that popular because of his achievements in WC3 and has done decently in SC2. Although it is true that some players get popular due to their stream, personality , humor, ceremonies, etc. Most players still gain popularity by winning.
You are so wrong about Grubby. His WC3 legend status did very little for him in the Starcraft community. I never saw his stream get over 1k views before he went to Korea and he even lost a big sponsor (Steelseries I hink?).
He has earned his popularity by doing a bunch of things like casting, practising his ass off in Korea, doing vlogs, streaming and just being himself, a really likeable guy.
lolol eztl plz lose more :D. the skill difference between kespa players and everyone else is pretty huge tho. this is pretty embarrassing already, should go back to playing Code A and foreign tourneys.
On February 26 2013 17:15 NightOfTheDead wrote: Why do EG keep Puma if he doesnt care about wining? He actually acknolewdged this himself in several interviews.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I get the feeling EG doesn't care about results so long as their players are popular. After all, it's popularity that attracts sponsor money.
Literally the biggest retard on this site.
well, you know, there's a reason why grubby can pull sponsor money, while someone like yoda or symbol wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell. popularity matters!
To be fair, Grubby got that popular because of his achievements in WC3 and has done decently in SC2. Although it is true that some players get popular due to their stream, personality , humor, ceremonies, etc. Most players still gain popularity by winning.
You are so wrong about Grubby. His WC3 legend status did very little for him in the Starcraft community. I never saw his stream get over 1k views before he went to Korea and he even lost a big sponsor (Steelseries I hink?).
He has earned his popularity by doing a bunch of things like casting, practising his ass off in Korea, doing vlogs, streaming and just being himself, a really likeable guy.
I am not saying Grubby is popularity only because of his WC3 background. Of course, all the things you mentioned helped as well. But it would be naive to think his WC3 background did not help. I don't think many pros can make 1 man teams and get sponsorships as well as get invites to tournaments.
On February 26 2013 21:16 Kabras wrote: lolol eztl plz lose more :D. the skill difference between kespa players and everyone else is pretty huge tho. this is pretty embarrassing already, should go back to playing Code A and foreign tourneys.
is that why kespa players keep losing in code a and up and downs?
On February 26 2013 21:16 Kabras wrote: lolol eztl plz lose more :D. the skill difference between kespa players and everyone else is pretty huge tho. this is pretty embarrassing already, should go back to playing Code A and foreign tourneys.
is that why kespa players keep losing in code a and up and downs?
I think because of format 1 KESPA 5GOMTV You must win all people. GOMTV can give win to other friend. However this is my assumption. This season will tell it is true or not because KESPA players are increased
On February 26 2013 17:15 NightOfTheDead wrote: Why do EG keep Puma if he doesnt care about wining? He actually acknolewdged this himself in several interviews.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I get the feeling EG doesn't care about results so long as their players are popular. After all, it's popularity that attracts sponsor money.
If they keep losing they will lose popularity, though.
they gain popularity because they always lose. infamously known. win or lose, they came here for exposure and experience. what matters most is you learn something from being defeated.
On February 26 2013 21:16 Kabras wrote: lolol eztl plz lose more :D. the skill difference between kespa players and everyone else is pretty huge tho. this is pretty embarrassing already, should go back to playing Code A and foreign tourneys.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_1 Seems to disagree. EG-TL is getting stomped, I'll give you that, but Taeja is in the GSL semis (after beating a KeSPA player - believe it or not, in the Round of 8); so I think there is something else to it other than EG-TL being EZ-TL. Obviously, I don't know anything and neither do you, but they don't look as convincing in Proleague as they do in other tournaments.
On February 26 2013 21:16 Kabras wrote: lolol eztl plz lose more :D. the skill difference between kespa players and everyone else is pretty huge tho. this is pretty embarrassing already, should go back to playing Code A and foreign tourneys.
EG-TL =/= everyone else than KeSPA. Plus, can you remind me where does JD comes from ?
Pretty sad, but the more it goes on, the less it surprises me (and lol @ Stephano asking for series on Twitter. Guy you got practice to do if you want to keep up with the other pro, or at least to justify you earn money that better players don't..)
On February 26 2013 21:16 Kabras wrote: lolol eztl plz lose more :D. the skill difference between kespa players and everyone else is pretty huge tho. this is pretty embarrassing already, should go back to playing Code A and foreign tourneys.
is that why kespa players keep losing in code a and up and downs?
Overall, KeSPA players have a winning record against eSF players in GSL for sure. They only fail in up&downs.
On February 26 2013 21:16 Kabras wrote: lolol eztl plz lose more :D. the skill difference between kespa players and everyone else is pretty huge tho. this is pretty embarrassing already, should go back to playing Code A and foreign tourneys.
is that why kespa players keep losing in code a and up and downs?
Overall, KeSPA players have a winning record against eSF players in GSL for sure. They only fail in up&downs.
Then certainly, that proves that the skill difference isn't "pretty huge". If the skill difference was huge, they wouldn't be in the Up&Downs in the first place unless put there by other KeSPA players, and that is hardly always the case.
On February 26 2013 17:15 NightOfTheDead wrote: Why do EG keep Puma if he doesnt care about wining? He actually acknolewdged this himself in several interviews.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I get the feeling EG doesn't care about results so long as their players are popular. After all, it's popularity that attracts sponsor money.
Literally the biggest retard on this site.
well, you know, there's a reason why grubby can pull sponsor money, while someone like yoda or symbol wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell. popularity matters!
To be fair, Grubby got that popular because of his achievements in WC3 and has done decently in SC2. Although it is true that some players get popular due to their stream, personality , humor, ceremonies, etc. Most players still gain popularity by winning.
You are so wrong about Grubby. His WC3 legend status did very little for him in the Starcraft community. I never saw his stream get over 1k views before he went to Korea and he even lost a big sponsor (Steelseries I hink?).
He has earned his popularity by doing a bunch of things like casting, practising his ass off in Korea, doing vlogs, streaming and just being himself, a really likeable guy.
I completely disagree. Grubby is a legend and very easily acquired viewers. And while he seems to be getting quite good now he wasn't too great when he started. I won't argue about how many viewers he had but I suspect you are wrong and he had more than that..
If people did stop watching him it's because he just wasn't very good so maybe he did have less viewers then. But the reason he can so easily acquire tons of viewers now is because 1.) yes he's good but also 2.) legendary gamer status.
everyone who is a serious rts gamer knows who grubby is...
So much bullshit in this thread, it's hilarious. "TL is doing well in Dota, that means it's way more competitive", "Kespa vastly superior to Esf" and so on... Always fun to read the posts when EGTL lost. Pls go on guys, you are giving me a good laugh
On February 26 2013 21:16 Kabras wrote: lolol eztl plz lose more :D. the skill difference between kespa players and everyone else is pretty huge tho. this is pretty embarrassing already, should go back to playing Code A and foreign tourneys.
is that why kespa players keep losing in code a and up and downs?
Overall, KeSPA players have a winning record against eSF players in GSL for sure. They only fail in up&downs.
Then certainly, that proves that the skill difference isn't "pretty huge". If the skill difference was huge, they wouldn't be in the Up&Downs in the first place unless put there by other KeSPA players, and that is hardly always the case.
I wasn't backing up the skill difference huge idea. I was only correcting your statement about them losing in code A.
On February 26 2013 21:16 Kabras wrote: lolol eztl plz lose more :D. the skill difference between kespa players and everyone else is pretty huge tho. this is pretty embarrassing already, should go back to playing Code A and foreign tourneys.
EG-TL =/= everyone else than KeSPA. Plus, can you remind me where does JD comes from ?
Pretty sad, but the more it goes on, the less it surprises me (and lol @ Stephano asking for series on Twitter. Guy you got practice to do if you want to keep up with the other pro, or at least to justify you earn money that better players don't..)
This is becoming shameful..
He has no interest in practicing WoL anymore with HotS coming around, and even when he wins games his mates lose so why bother .
They better train hard for HotS in order to make a strong showing, it's already over for them this round.
On February 26 2013 21:16 Kabras wrote: lolol eztl plz lose more :D. the skill difference between kespa players and everyone else is pretty huge tho. this is pretty embarrassing already, should go back to playing Code A and foreign tourneys.
is that why kespa players keep losing in code a and up and downs?
I think because of format 1 KESPA 5GOMTV You must win all people. GOMTV can give win to other friend. However this is my assumption. This season will tell it is true or not because KESPA players are increased
So so now we can use this argument because it's KeSPA. I thought it was forbidden to use it for foreigners.
In other news, HerO is back to slumping. TaeJa is preparing the GSL. Jaedong cannot win against Protoss and Stephano is mindgamed. EG has always been a terrible team in team league and it shows right now.
On February 26 2013 21:16 Kabras wrote: lolol eztl plz lose more :D. the skill difference between kespa players and everyone else is pretty huge tho. this is pretty embarrassing already, should go back to playing Code A and foreign tourneys.
EG-TL =/= everyone else than KeSPA. Plus, can you remind me where does JD comes from ?
Pretty sad, but the more it goes on, the less it surprises me (and lol @ Stephano asking for series on Twitter. Guy you got practice to do if you want to keep up with the other pro, or at least to justify you earn money that better players don't..)
This is becoming shameful..
He has no interest in practicing WoL anymore with HotS coming around, and even when he wins games his mates lose so why bother .
They better train hard for HotS in order to make a strong showing, it's already over for them this round.
Jaedong started out with so much promise on T8, he did quite well in the Hybrid season. Yet now he joined EG and his performance goes to hell. (pattern much?)
On February 26 2013 22:32 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: From favourite to punching bag, this is insane.
People just underestimated the quality of Kespa players and a lot of EGTL was overrated based on foreign tourney performances. It's only going to get worse from here, at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them.
On February 26 2013 22:32 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: From favourite to punching bag, this is insane.
People just underestimated the quality of Kespa players and a lot of EGTL was overrated based on foreign tourney performances. It's only going to get worse from here, at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them.
EG-TL has a better win % than Air Force Ace in the last Proleague season EG-TL: 41.96% map score Air Force ACE: 34.86% (36.90% in the last season of BW) so idk how you could say "at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them" as compared to EG-TL when they were actually a worse performing team. I guess people either like making stuff up or remember things the way they want to.
On February 26 2013 22:32 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: From favourite to punching bag, this is insane.
People just underestimated the quality of Kespa players and a lot of EGTL was overrated based on foreign tourney performances. It's only going to get worse from here, at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them.
EG-TL has a better win % than Air Force Ace in the last Proleague season EG-TL: 41.96% map score Air Force ACE: 34.86% (36.90% in the last season of BW) so idk how you could say "at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them" as compared to EG-TL when they were actually a worse performing team. I guess people either like making stuff up or remember things the way they want to.
This is still R3. Hopefully things don't get worse for EGTL from here.
On February 26 2013 22:32 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: From favourite to punching bag, this is insane.
People just underestimated the quality of Kespa players and a lot of EGTL was overrated based on foreign tourney performances. It's only going to get worse from here, at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them.
EG-TL has a better win % than Air Force Ace in the last Proleague season EG-TL: 41.96% map score Air Force ACE: 34.86% so idk how you could say "at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them" as compared to EG-TL when they were actually a worse performing team. I guess people either like making stuff up or remember things the way they want to.
'Fight' as in effort and passion. ACE was outmatched in terms of personnel but they still pulled regular upsets with preparation and team spirit. On the other hand, EG-TL's an under-prepared, overpaid bunch of mercenaries that don't seem overly fussed about being in the league or not.
On February 26 2013 21:16 Kabras wrote: lolol eztl plz lose more :D. the skill difference between kespa players and everyone else is pretty huge tho. this is pretty embarrassing already, should go back to playing Code A and foreign tourneys.
EG-TL =/= everyone else than KeSPA. Plus, can you remind me where does JD comes from ?
Pretty sad, but the more it goes on, the less it surprises me (and lol @ Stephano asking for series on Twitter. Guy you got practice to do if you want to keep up with the other pro, or at least to justify you earn money that better players don't..)
This is becoming shameful..
He has no interest in practicing WoL anymore with HotS coming around, and even when he wins games his mates lose so why bother .
They better train hard for HotS in order to make a strong showing, it's already over for them this round.
On February 26 2013 21:16 Kabras wrote: lolol eztl plz lose more :D. the skill difference between kespa players and everyone else is pretty huge tho. this is pretty embarrassing already, should go back to playing Code A and foreign tourneys.
EG-TL =/= everyone else than KeSPA. Plus, can you remind me where does JD comes from ?
Pretty sad, but the more it goes on, the less it surprises me (and lol @ Stephano asking for series on Twitter. Guy you got practice to do if you want to keep up with the other pro, or at least to justify you earn money that better players don't..)
This is becoming shameful..
He has no interest in practicing WoL anymore with HotS coming around, and even when he wins games his mates lose so why bother .
They better train hard for HotS in order to make a strong showing, it's already over for them this round.
That's why he lost his Code A match, ofc.
Die hard Stephano fans having a hard time coming to grips with reality, what else is new? I guess KT Rolster really has EG-TLs number though, 3 matches and 3 stomps is pretty indicative.
On February 26 2013 21:16 Kabras wrote: lolol eztl plz lose more :D. the skill difference between kespa players and everyone else is pretty huge tho. this is pretty embarrassing already, should go back to playing Code A and foreign tourneys.
EG-TL =/= everyone else than KeSPA. Plus, can you remind me where does JD comes from ?
Pretty sad, but the more it goes on, the less it surprises me (and lol @ Stephano asking for series on Twitter. Guy you got practice to do if you want to keep up with the other pro, or at least to justify you earn money that better players don't..)
This is becoming shameful..
He has no interest in practicing WoL anymore with HotS coming around, and even when he wins games his mates lose so why bother .
They better train hard for HotS in order to make a strong showing, it's already over for them this round.
10000% Stephano biased
Let's be a lil more pragmatic and admit that Pano just doesn't want to be in Korea, unfortunately EG wants him to be there. But you just can't say no when you get that kind of salary. Pretty sure he tweeted he was "happy when losing" just because he knows he's going home very soon.
On February 26 2013 21:16 Kabras wrote: lolol eztl plz lose more :D. the skill difference between kespa players and everyone else is pretty huge tho. this is pretty embarrassing already, should go back to playing Code A and foreign tourneys.
EG-TL =/= everyone else than KeSPA. Plus, can you remind me where does JD comes from ?
Pretty sad, but the more it goes on, the less it surprises me (and lol @ Stephano asking for series on Twitter. Guy you got practice to do if you want to keep up with the other pro, or at least to justify you earn money that better players don't..)
This is becoming shameful..
He has no interest in practicing WoL anymore with HotS coming around, and even when he wins games his mates lose so why bother .
They better train hard for HotS in order to make a strong showing, it's already over for them this round.
That's why he lost his Code A match, ofc.
Die hard Stephano fans having a hard time coming to grips with reality, what else is new? I guess KT Rolster really has EG-TLs number though, 3 matches and 3 stomps is pretty indicative.
Although it was only EG-TL but still, win is a win!
I don't know why people are disappointed. Kespa teams are improving at an unbelivable rate while EG-TL is not going anywhere skill wise. It's going to get even more brutal with HoTS.
On February 26 2013 22:32 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: From favourite to punching bag, this is insane.
People just underestimated the quality of Kespa players and a lot of EGTL was overrated based on foreign tourney performances. It's only going to get worse from here, at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them.
EG-TL has a better win % than Air Force Ace in the last Proleague season EG-TL: 41.96% map score Air Force ACE: 34.86% (36.90% in the last season of BW) so idk how you could say "at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them" as compared to EG-TL when they were actually a worse performing team. I guess people either like making stuff up or remember things the way they want to.
EGTL had a very big head start coming into this season and their performance compared to the competition was okish in the beginning beause of this. But as it stands now, Ace was better I think.
On February 26 2013 17:15 NightOfTheDead wrote: Why do EG keep Puma if he doesnt care about wining? He actually acknolewdged this himself in several interviews.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I get the feeling EG doesn't care about results so long as their players are popular. After all, it's popularity that attracts sponsor money.
Literally the biggest retard on this site.
well, you know, there's a reason why grubby can pull sponsor money, while someone like yoda or symbol wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell. popularity matters!
To be fair, Grubby got that popular because of his achievements in WC3 and has done decently in SC2. Although it is true that some players get popular due to their stream, personality , humor, ceremonies, etc. Most players still gain popularity by winning.
You are so wrong about Grubby. His WC3 legend status did very little for him in the Starcraft community. I never saw his stream get over 1k views before he went to Korea and he even lost a big sponsor (Steelseries I hink?).
He has earned his popularity by doing a bunch of things like casting, practising his ass off in Korea, doing vlogs, streaming and just being himself, a really likeable guy.
I suggest you go there and contemplate the retardation of the number you've just pulled out of your ass. Why do people come and invent statistics to serve their retarded arguments? And saying Grubby's WC3 legend status did very little for him, do you even believe that yourself? lol
On February 26 2013 22:32 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: From favourite to punching bag, this is insane.
People just underestimated the quality of Kespa players and a lot of EGTL was overrated based on foreign tourney performances. It's only going to get worse from here, at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them.
EG-TL has a better win % than Air Force Ace in the last Proleague season EG-TL: 41.96% map score Air Force ACE: 34.86% (36.90% in the last season of BW) so idk how you could say "at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them" as compared to EG-TL when they were actually a worse performing team. I guess people either like making stuff up or remember things the way they want to.
You know, ACE started off on equal ground with other team but with a lineup of washed-up pros and limited training time.
EGTL? 2 years ahead of playing, some of the (self-claimed) best, foreign-tourney winning players. Now fans claims that HotS is the only light at the end. So pathetic.
Yeah if "shame" couldnt describe this situation, "overrated" might be a better word
On February 26 2013 21:16 Kabras wrote: lolol eztl plz lose more :D. the skill difference between kespa players and everyone else is pretty huge tho. this is pretty embarrassing already, should go back to playing Code A and foreign tourneys.
EG-TL =/= everyone else than KeSPA. Plus, can you remind me where does JD comes from ?
Pretty sad, but the more it goes on, the less it surprises me (and lol @ Stephano asking for series on Twitter. Guy you got practice to do if you want to keep up with the other pro, or at least to justify you earn money that better players don't..)
This is becoming shameful..
He has no interest in practicing WoL anymore with HotS coming around, and even when he wins games his mates lose so why bother .
They better train hard for HotS in order to make a strong showing, it's already over for them this round.
That's why he lost his Code A match, ofc.
Die hard Stephano fans having a hard time coming to grips with reality, what else is new? I guess KT Rolster really has EG-TLs number though, 3 matches and 3 stomps is pretty indicative.
Woongjin 12 - 1 KT is more surprising tbh :p
Not really though. Stars(and ACE) have KT's number even before the switch.
On February 26 2013 22:32 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: From favourite to punching bag, this is insane.
People just underestimated the quality of Kespa players and a lot of EGTL was overrated based on foreign tourney performances. It's only going to get worse from here, at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them.
EG-TL has a better win % than Air Force Ace in the last Proleague season EG-TL: 41.96% map score Air Force ACE: 34.86% so idk how you could say "at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them" as compared to EG-TL when they were actually a worse performing team. I guess people either like making stuff up or remember things the way they want to.
'Fight' as in effort and passion. ACE was outmatched in terms of personnel but they still pulled regular upsets with preparation and team spirit. On the other hand, EG-TL's an under-prepared, overpaid bunch of mercenaries that don't seem overly fussed about being in the league or not.
What's your evidence that they lack effort and passion, and are not "overly fussed" about being in the league?
On February 27 2013 00:03 DarkLordOlli wrote: I had a feeling this would happen
again.
The mindset of a fair weather fan .
It's so sad I know they're better than this. I watch the PL games and they're just playing poorly. Then I watch other games they played recently and they're better than what they show here. I really don't know what it is.
On February 27 2013 00:26 MiQ wrote: JYP and PuMa lost? What a surprise
Need Jaedong back on a real team as EGTL obviously isn't working.
Because you think he'll be able to win a ZvP just by moving to another team ? He won't, he is terrible in that match-up and no one is going to help him but himself.
On February 26 2013 22:32 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: From favourite to punching bag, this is insane.
People just underestimated the quality of Kespa players and a lot of EGTL was overrated based on foreign tourney performances. It's only going to get worse from here, at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them.
EG-TL has a better win % than Air Force Ace in the last Proleague season EG-TL: 41.96% map score Air Force ACE: 34.86% so idk how you could say "at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them" as compared to EG-TL when they were actually a worse performing team. I guess people either like making stuff up or remember things the way they want to.
'Fight' as in effort and passion. ACE was outmatched in terms of personnel but they still pulled regular upsets with preparation and team spirit. On the other hand, EG-TL's an under-prepared, overpaid bunch of mercenaries that don't seem overly fussed about being in the league or not.
What's your evidence that they lack effort and passion, and are not "overly fussed" about being in the league?
EG-TL's recent performances coupled with comments like Myungsik saying "I don't think EG-TL is really focusing on Proleague. The results are inevitable since we work harder."
On February 27 2013 00:26 MiQ wrote: JYP and PuMa lost? What a surprise
Need Jaedong back on a real team as EGTL obviously isn't working.
Because you think he'll be able to win a ZvP just by moving to another team ? He won't, he is terrible in that match-up and no one is going to help him but himself.
All I am saying is that maybe if he was surroudned by a competent team he would improve faster.
On February 27 2013 00:26 MiQ wrote: JYP and PuMa lost? What a surprise
Need Jaedong back on a real team as EGTL obviously isn't working.
Because you think he'll be able to win a ZvP just by moving to another team ? He won't, he is terrible in that match-up and no one is going to help him but himself.
All I am saying is that maybe if he was surroudned by a competent team he would improve faster.
I doubt it. He'd learn to BO snipe protoss instead of figuring out how ZvP works faster. He'd still be bad at the matchup, except he might get silly wins by executing strats that don't require him to understand the matchup. I'd rather have him learn slowly.
On February 27 2013 00:03 DarkLordOlli wrote: I had a feeling this would happen
again.
The mindset of a fair weather fan .
It's so sad I know they're better than this. I watch the PL games and they're just playing poorly. Then I watch other games they played recently and they're better than what they show here. I really don't know what it is.
Sorry, meant to quote Dexington lol. Fixed my post.
On February 26 2013 22:32 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: From favourite to punching bag, this is insane.
People just underestimated the quality of Kespa players and a lot of EGTL was overrated based on foreign tourney performances. It's only going to get worse from here, at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them.
EG-TL has a better win % than Air Force Ace in the last Proleague season EG-TL: 41.96% map score Air Force ACE: 34.86% so idk how you could say "at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them" as compared to EG-TL when they were actually a worse performing team. I guess people either like making stuff up or remember things the way they want to.
'Fight' as in effort and passion. ACE was outmatched in terms of personnel but they still pulled regular upsets with preparation and team spirit. On the other hand, EG-TL's an under-prepared, overpaid bunch of mercenaries that don't seem overly fussed about being in the league or not.
What's your evidence that they lack effort and passion, and are not "overly fussed" about being in the league?
EG-TL's recent performances coupled with comments like Myungsik saying "I don't think EG-TL is really focusing on Proleague. The results are inevitable since we work harder."
1) EG-TL is on a losing streak 2) Some KT player thinks EG-TL isn't focusing on Proleague 3) Therefore, EG-TL lacks passion and effort, and doesn't care much about Proleague
Just wanted to paraphrase your argument so you could see more clearly that you're drawing a sweeping conclusion based on insufficient information. There are a number of different plausible explanations that could substitute for #3.
On February 26 2013 22:32 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: From favourite to punching bag, this is insane.
People just underestimated the quality of Kespa players and a lot of EGTL was overrated based on foreign tourney performances. It's only going to get worse from here, at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them.
EG-TL has a better win % than Air Force Ace in the last Proleague season EG-TL: 41.96% map score Air Force ACE: 34.86% so idk how you could say "at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them" as compared to EG-TL when they were actually a worse performing team. I guess people either like making stuff up or remember things the way they want to.
'Fight' as in effort and passion. ACE was outmatched in terms of personnel but they still pulled regular upsets with preparation and team spirit. On the other hand, EG-TL's an under-prepared, overpaid bunch of mercenaries that don't seem overly fussed about being in the league or not.
What's your evidence that they lack effort and passion, and are not "overly fussed" about being in the league?
EG-TL's recent performances coupled with comments like Myungsik saying "I don't think EG-TL is really focusing on Proleague. The results are inevitable since we work harder."
So I assume KT was dicking around for most of Round 3 because this was their first win? Which means all the other teams were working hard than them.
On February 26 2013 22:32 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: From favourite to punching bag, this is insane.
People just underestimated the quality of Kespa players and a lot of EGTL was overrated based on foreign tourney performances. It's only going to get worse from here, at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them.
EG-TL has a better win % than Air Force Ace in the last Proleague season EG-TL: 41.96% map score Air Force ACE: 34.86% so idk how you could say "at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them" as compared to EG-TL when they were actually a worse performing team. I guess people either like making stuff up or remember things the way they want to.
'Fight' as in effort and passion. ACE was outmatched in terms of personnel but they still pulled regular upsets with preparation and team spirit. On the other hand, EG-TL's an under-prepared, overpaid bunch of mercenaries that don't seem overly fussed about being in the league or not.
What's your evidence that they lack effort and passion, and are not "overly fussed" about being in the league?
EG-TL's recent performances coupled with comments like Myungsik saying "I don't think EG-TL is really focusing on Proleague. The results are inevitable since we work harder."
1) EG-TL is on a losing streak 2) Some KT player thinks EG-TL isn't focusing on Proleague 3) Therefore, EG-TL lacks passion and effort, and doesn't care much about Proleague
Just wanted to paraphrase your argument so you could see more clearly that you're drawing a sweeping conclusion based on insufficient information. There are a number of different plausible explanations that could substitute for #3.
Either they are a team with bad players or they don't work hard, you choose.
On February 27 2013 00:26 MiQ wrote: JYP and PuMa lost? What a surprise
Need Jaedong back on a real team as EGTL obviously isn't working.
Because you think he'll be able to win a ZvP just by moving to another team ? He won't, he is terrible in that match-up and no one is going to help him but himself.
All I am saying is that maybe if he was surroudned by a competent team he would improve faster.
I doubt it. He'd learn to BO snipe protoss instead of figuring out how ZvP works faster. He'd still be bad at the matchup, except he might get silly wins by executing strats that don't require him to understand the matchup. I'd rather have him learn slowly.
How is this different from understanding the matchup? This is a funny excuse.
On February 26 2013 22:32 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: From favourite to punching bag, this is insane.
People just underestimated the quality of Kespa players and a lot of EGTL was overrated based on foreign tourney performances. It's only going to get worse from here, at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them.
EG-TL has a better win % than Air Force Ace in the last Proleague season EG-TL: 41.96% map score Air Force ACE: 34.86% so idk how you could say "at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them" as compared to EG-TL when they were actually a worse performing team. I guess people either like making stuff up or remember things the way they want to.
'Fight' as in effort and passion. ACE was outmatched in terms of personnel but they still pulled regular upsets with preparation and team spirit. On the other hand, EG-TL's an under-prepared, overpaid bunch of mercenaries that don't seem overly fussed about being in the league or not.
What's your evidence that they lack effort and passion, and are not "overly fussed" about being in the league?
EG-TL's recent performances coupled with comments like Myungsik saying "I don't think EG-TL is really focusing on Proleague. The results are inevitable since we work harder."
1) EG-TL is on a losing streak 2) Some KT player thinks EG-TL isn't focusing on Proleague 3) Therefore, EG-TL lacks passion and effort, and doesn't care much about Proleague
Just wanted to paraphrase your argument so you could see more clearly that you're drawing a sweeping conclusion based on insufficient information. There are a number of different plausible explanations that could substitute for #3.
I don't even see why I need sufficient evidence, this isn't a court of law. It's just in my opinion, they seem neither emotionally involved nor motivated. If you watch their games it's pretty obvious they don't specifically prepare as much as the Kespa boys (Thorzain streaming ladder TvZ's the night before a TvT match, Taeja returning with that shitty proxy starport build, Stephano doing generic builds etc.) and they clearly focus more on GSL than proleague if you look at their rotations. Still, if you want to be a fanboy and pretend they're practicing their hearts out for proleague I can't stop you. Actually it's probably even more depressing if you think they're trying their hardest.
On February 27 2013 00:26 MiQ wrote: JYP and PuMa lost? What a surprise
Need Jaedong back on a real team as EGTL obviously isn't working.
Because you think he'll be able to win a ZvP just by moving to another team ? He won't, he is terrible in that match-up and no one is going to help him but himself.
All I am saying is that maybe if he was surroudned by a competent team he would improve faster.
I doubt it. He'd learn to BO snipe protoss instead of figuring out how ZvP works faster. He'd still be bad at the matchup, except he might get silly wins by executing strats that don't require him to understand the matchup. I'd rather have him learn slowly.
How is this different from understanding the matchup? This is a funny excuse.
I could learn how to proxy gate and hope to catch BO wins vs someone like MKP who's known for going CC first. Ain't got much to do with understanding the matchup, does it? I watch lots of PL and cannon rushes/proxy gates or proxying other stuff is used pretttttttttttty often compared to anywhere else.
Also it's not an excuse, I'm not necessarily a fan of Jaedong or EG. I'm just saying learning how to BO snipe people =|= learning a matchup.
On February 27 2013 00:26 MiQ wrote: JYP and PuMa lost? What a surprise
Need Jaedong back on a real team as EGTL obviously isn't working.
Because you think he'll be able to win a ZvP just by moving to another team ? He won't, he is terrible in that match-up and no one is going to help him but himself.
All I am saying is that maybe if he was surroudned by a competent team he would improve faster.
I doubt it. He'd learn to BO snipe protoss instead of figuring out how ZvP works faster. He'd still be bad at the matchup, except he might get silly wins by executing strats that don't require him to understand the matchup. I'd rather have him learn slowly.
How is this different from understanding the matchup? This is a funny excuse.
I could learn how to proxy gate and hope to catch BO wins vs someone like MKP who's known for going CC first. Ain't got much to do with understanding the matchup, does it? I watch lots of PL and cannon rushes/proxy gates or proxying other stuff is used pretttttttttttty often compared to anywhere else.
Also it's not an excuse, I'm not necessarily a fan of Jaedong or EG. I'm just saying learning how to BO snipe people =|= learning a matchup.
Most BW legends cheesed their way to the top, Jaedong, Boxer, July, and early Flash. Early game and cheese is where Koreans shine, just ask every foreigner heros in the history of BW and SC2, most of them are macro monsters, but they fail in early game due to lack of attention to details. And this is exactly why Koreans are better, they are focused and have attention to details.
On February 27 2013 00:26 MiQ wrote: JYP and PuMa lost? What a surprise
Need Jaedong back on a real team as EGTL obviously isn't working.
Because you think he'll be able to win a ZvP just by moving to another team ? He won't, he is terrible in that match-up and no one is going to help him but himself.
All I am saying is that maybe if he was surroudned by a competent team he would improve faster.
I doubt it. He'd learn to BO snipe protoss instead of figuring out how ZvP works faster. He'd still be bad at the matchup, except he might get silly wins by executing strats that don't require him to understand the matchup. I'd rather have him learn slowly.
How is this different from understanding the matchup? This is a funny excuse.
I could learn how to proxy gate and hope to catch BO wins vs someone like MKP who's known for going CC first. Ain't got much to do with understanding the matchup, does it? I watch lots of PL and cannon rushes/proxy gates or proxying other stuff is used pretttttttttttty often compared to anywhere else.
Also it's not an excuse, I'm not necessarily a fan of Jaedong or EG. I'm just saying learning how to BO snipe people =|= learning a matchup.
Most BW legends cheesed their way to the top, Jaedong, Boxer, July, and early Flash. Early game and cheese is where Koreans shine, just ask every foreigner heros in the history of BW and SC2, most of them are macro monsters, but they fail in early game due to lack of attention to details.
Indeed, much of the 'Korean style' involves using heavy cheesing and all-inning to build up an aura of unpredictability, which keeps opponents honest, and then going for greedy builds when the time is right--like when Flash proxy rax'd Kwanro all through the MSL semis only to 14cc three times in a row vs Jaedong in the finals.
This isn't to say foreigners can't do this as well, but it seems the foreigners who are best at metagaming the fuck out of people end up doing something like poker instead.
Kespa players have spent the past X years preparing for a single match against an opponent format so I'd expect their preparation for these sorts of games to be flawless
Kespa teams priorities are also Proleague then gsl then whatever else
EgTL doesn't have the desire / ability to focus solely on 1 long ass league and prioritise it to Kespa's degree
Whenever I have a bad day, I go on TL to see the EGTL PL results, and everything is suddenly so much better. The writer who predicted EGTL to be the best team in PL must feel quite silly now.
On February 26 2013 22:32 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: From favourite to punching bag, this is insane.
People just underestimated the quality of Kespa players and a lot of EGTL was overrated based on foreign tourney performances. It's only going to get worse from here, at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them.
EG-TL has a better win % than Air Force Ace in the last Proleague season EG-TL: 41.96% map score Air Force ACE: 34.86% so idk how you could say "at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them" as compared to EG-TL when they were actually a worse performing team. I guess people either like making stuff up or remember things the way they want to.
'Fight' as in effort and passion. ACE was outmatched in terms of personnel but they still pulled regular upsets with preparation and team spirit. On the other hand, EG-TL's an under-prepared, overpaid bunch of mercenaries that don't seem overly fussed about being in the league or not.
What's your evidence that they lack effort and passion, and are not "overly fussed" about being in the league?
EG-TL's recent performances coupled with comments like Myungsik saying "I don't think EG-TL is really focusing on Proleague. The results are inevitable since we work harder."
1) EG-TL is on a losing streak 2) Some KT player thinks EG-TL isn't focusing on Proleague 3) Therefore, EG-TL lacks passion and effort, and doesn't care much about Proleague
Just wanted to paraphrase your argument so you could see more clearly that you're drawing a sweeping conclusion based on insufficient information. There are a number of different plausible explanations that could substitute for #3.
I don't even see why I need sufficient evidence, this isn't a court of law. It's just in my opinion, they seem neither emotionally involved nor motivated. If you watch their games it's pretty obvious they don't specifically prepare as much as the Kespa boys (Thorzain streaming ladder TvZ's the night before a TvT match, Taeja returning with that shitty proxy starport build, Stephano doing generic builds etc.) and they clearly focus more on GSL than proleague if you look at their rotations. Still, if you want to be a fanboy and pretend they're practicing their hearts out for proleague I can't stop you. Actually it's probably even more depressing if you think they're trying their hardest.
There you brought up some actual evidence, I'll grant you that. But to claim with certainty they lack passion and motivation, despite obvious other possibilities like less skill/sponsor- driven streaming requirements/not playing to their full ability on tv/tournament format and kespa experience advantage is just not an intelligent thing to say.
And sorry but saying "it's just my opinion" doesn't shield you from the need to back up what you say. Because after all, players and personalities read the forums, and when you make claims like the one about passion and motivation, you contribute to the negative side of this community and you become a member of the vocal minority that drives public figures away from the community.
On February 26 2013 22:32 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: From favourite to punching bag, this is insane.
People just underestimated the quality of Kespa players and a lot of EGTL was overrated based on foreign tourney performances. It's only going to get worse from here, at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them.
EG-TL has a better win % than Air Force Ace in the last Proleague season EG-TL: 41.96% map score Air Force ACE: 34.86% so idk how you could say "at least Airforce ACE had some fight in them" as compared to EG-TL when they were actually a worse performing team. I guess people either like making stuff up or remember things the way they want to.
'Fight' as in effort and passion. ACE was outmatched in terms of personnel but they still pulled regular upsets with preparation and team spirit. On the other hand, EG-TL's an under-prepared, overpaid bunch of mercenaries that don't seem overly fussed about being in the league or not.
What's your evidence that they lack effort and passion, and are not "overly fussed" about being in the league?
EG-TL's recent performances coupled with comments like Myungsik saying "I don't think EG-TL is really focusing on Proleague. The results are inevitable since we work harder."
So I assume KT was dicking around for most of Round 3 because this was their first win? Which means all the other teams were working hard than them.
I thought he was trying to make his comments without insulting the team they just crushed, I don't see the point in trying to turn it back on him
lectR (EG manager) posted on reddit last time EGTL lost talking about practice regiments for the team. He said this about EGTL's schedule:
"Just a head's up to those who may be wondering. The EG house in Korea has a minimum 8 hour daily practice requirement to even live there. Their hours are tracked, evaluated by two coaches [both our GM and Sungjin] every other day, and the league picks are decided upon by the two coaches who compare and discuss their performance/commitment regularly. They have very minimal time off, and are encouraged to play beyond the minimum. In most cases, they play 10-12 hours (the additional time for their streaming). Keep in mind, too, that these players are not just matchmaking, but are required to play against each other and discuss the games."
This practice time, according to him doesn't include streaming, so the players usually end up playing 10-12 hours a day. So the players are definitely putting the time in toward practicing starcraft. I guess the question is if the time is directed properly towards proleague, or if the other tournaments (GSL, MLG, IPL) are taking precedence. It also begs the question of how much does streaming hurt players? Even if they're just doing it for the viewers (which is great), it still may give away stuff opponents can take advantage of like scouting patterns, etc.
Well on the paper EG-TL has good players and since they can't be all depressed or have health problem i'm gonna attribute this defeat to a bad coaching. I don't wanna seem mean but the coaching since the start seemed pretty horrible.
well, maybe it has to do with the very different sponsor priorities between egtl and the rest of the kespa teams.
the kespa teams are sponsored by korean corporations with the goal of reaching the korean market. proleague runs on television in korea and, due to its bw history, has a large fanbase and recognition in korea itself. thus, proleague is single-most important thing in the world for the kespa teams - evidenced, for example, by the fact that skt1 was forcing their top players to sacrifice preparation time for their individual league games (osl, msl) in favour of more practice for their proleague games. (bisu once complained about that in an interview.)
egtl's sponsors, on the other hand, are international corporations for which the korean market is just one among many, and not quite the biggest at that. they primarily care about the team's exposition to an international audience. this is done via streaming, gsl, gstl and foreigner tournaments like mlgs and iem. therefore, it seems quite natural to me that proleague success is much farther down the priority list for egtl than for any other kespa team, for which proleague is on top of that list.
considering the huge dedication and professionality that korean teams put into whatever they are focussing on, it doesnt really surprise that egtl cant compete with them.
I wish I didn't have to "hate" on EG here, but I honestly find EG's promotion driven business and fan/personality driven model to be poisonous to the team. TL is not nearly as obnoxious with this stuff and would not put so much pressure on the players to produce content, reach out to fans all the time, etc. EG also puts so much out and in turn there is a lot more added pressure onto these players that other teams don't have. Sure the other korean teams have fans, but its not all about proving themselves every time. Bottom line, the whole EG superstar player concept makes them very entertaining, but also makes it very hard for the players to just practice and get better. The superstar players like DRG Nestea IMMVP MKP Leenock JJajki (at that time), Parting, Squirtle emerged with beastly teams of people to practice with. This is not how the EGTL house works with their current roster.
The team over there is just not optimal. The foreigners have too many priorities and they don't take proleague seriously enough. I'd say Thorzain is the exception, but he just doesn't seem to be on the level required unfortunately. Stephano just doesn't seem to have the motivation and style to really give PL 110%, he loves free $$$ too much.. Jaedong has held his own, but again hes a superstar and getting older, I don't feel like he has the drive like Flash or Fantasy do right now. Hero, Taeja (minus injury) are fine. Revival is actually good, especially i could see as a practice partner i think. JYP gets too nervous and doesn't perform well with pressure, and mechanically is not all that impressive. Puma has just kinda fallen off and doesnt add much other than maybe practice, but his mechanics aren't super impressive either.
I think to turn this around or turn it around, and for the future, EGTL needs to let some people go (from the house), and have some open trials or something in Korea. They should keep JD, Hero, Taeja Revival as players...and then the rest should go. There is no way these other guys would get into a Kespa Team. They need quality practice partners and to stop waiting around for these other guys to carry their weight. They aren't helping each other improve, and they aren't performing well either. The problem with take this action? It goes against everything EG stands for and is successful/profitable for..so unfortunately I think this experiment has failed. TL has held up its end of the bargain respectably, but EG is just poison for this team.
On February 27 2013 00:26 MiQ wrote: JYP and PuMa lost? What a surprise
Need Jaedong back on a real team as EGTL obviously isn't working.
Because you think he'll be able to win a ZvP just by moving to another team ? He won't, he is terrible in that match-up and no one is going to help him but himself.
All I am saying is that maybe if he was surroudned by a competent team he would improve faster.
I doubt it. He'd learn to BO snipe protoss instead of figuring out how ZvP works faster. He'd still be bad at the matchup, except he might get silly wins by executing strats that don't require him to understand the matchup. I'd rather have him learn slowly.
How is this different from understanding the matchup? This is a funny excuse.
I could learn how to proxy gate and hope to catch BO wins vs someone like MKP who's known for going CC first. Ain't got much to do with understanding the matchup, does it? I watch lots of PL and cannon rushes/proxy gates or proxying other stuff is used pretttttttttttty often compared to anywhere else.
Also it's not an excuse, I'm not necessarily a fan of Jaedong or EG. I'm just saying learning how to BO snipe people =|= learning a matchup.
Most BW legends cheesed their way to the top, Jaedong, Boxer, July, and early Flash. Early game and cheese is where Koreans shine, just ask every foreigner heros in the history of BW and SC2, most of them are macro monsters, but they fail in early game due to lack of attention to details.
Indeed, much of the 'Korean style' involves using heavy cheesing and all-inning to build up an aura of unpredictability, which keeps opponents honest, and then going for greedy builds when the time is right--like when Flash proxy rax'd Kwanro all through the MSL semis only to 14cc three times in a row vs Jaedong in the finals.
This isn't to say foreigners can't do this as well, but it seems the foreigners who are best at metagaming the fuck out of people end up doing something like poker instead.
Except I don't understand why he said "early Flash". Either you mean "Early JD, Boxer, July, Flash" or you are wrong by distinguishing him for not making any sense. Also, I don't remember JD being under that category really. But if that label floated around him then it was a long ass time ago.
I don't know what people expected. They play against a system that perfected building players and coaches.
Meanwhile, EG-TL can only really make moves by buying players. And they tend to buy by names. Also, their business model is simply in conflict with the competition, if players stream before they have important matches.
It's a win for esports that you can't simply buy yourself to the top. That doesn't mean that foreign teams are barred from entering Korean leagues. FXO seems to have the better approach.
On February 27 2013 00:26 MiQ wrote: JYP and PuMa lost? What a surprise
Need Jaedong back on a real team as EGTL obviously isn't working.
Because you think he'll be able to win a ZvP just by moving to another team ? He won't, he is terrible in that match-up and no one is going to help him but himself.
All I am saying is that maybe if he was surroudned by a competent team he would improve faster.
I doubt it. He'd learn to BO snipe protoss instead of figuring out how ZvP works faster. He'd still be bad at the matchup, except he might get silly wins by executing strats that don't require him to understand the matchup. I'd rather have him learn slowly.
How is this different from understanding the matchup? This is a funny excuse.
I could learn how to proxy gate and hope to catch BO wins vs someone like MKP who's known for going CC first. Ain't got much to do with understanding the matchup, does it? I watch lots of PL and cannon rushes/proxy gates or proxying other stuff is used pretttttttttttty often compared to anywhere else.
Also it's not an excuse, I'm not necessarily a fan of Jaedong or EG. I'm just saying learning how to BO snipe people =|= learning a matchup.
Most BW legends cheesed their way to the top, Jaedong, Boxer, July, and early Flash. Early game and cheese is where Koreans shine, just ask every foreigner heros in the history of BW and SC2, most of them are macro monsters, but they fail in early game due to lack of attention to details.
Indeed, much of the 'Korean style' involves using heavy cheesing and all-inning to build up an aura of unpredictability, which keeps opponents honest, and then going for greedy builds when the time is right--like when Flash proxy rax'd Kwanro all through the MSL semis only to 14cc three times in a row vs Jaedong in the finals.
This isn't to say foreigners can't do this as well, but it seems the foreigners who are best at metagaming the fuck out of people end up doing something like poker instead.
Except I don't understand why he said "early Flash". Either you mean "Early JD, Boxer, July, Flash" or you are wrong by distinguishing him for not making any sense. Also, I don't remember JD being under that category really. But if that label floated around him then it was a long ass time ago.
Jaedong was more an agressive zerg and an heir to July and YellOw at the beginning, before slowly going toward a more macro oriented, sAviOresque style. Tons of 2 hatch mutas, good micro etc...
It's a win for esports that you can't simply buy yourself to the top.
i guess this is the reason why the last 4 or 5 teamleague finals in bw were all between skt and kt, the two sponsors that spent by far the most money on their bw team...
It's a win for esports that you can't simply buy yourself to the top.
i guess this is the reason why the last 4 or 5 teamleague finals in bw were all between skt and kt, the two sponsors that spent by far the most money on their bw team...
The only notable star player transfers in SKT's history were Bisu and July in 2007, and the latter even did terribly.
SKT and KT are receiving the most money because they are the teams that basically built the competitive BW scene and produced dynasties of legendary players. They earned their popularity, sponsors and money through accomplishments, the opposite of "buying themselves to the top".
Stephano just doesn't seem to have the motivation and style to really give PL 110%, he loves free $$$ too much.
I think he just don't like korean tournament. I mean he avoided GSL as long as possible so i can't imagine him enjoying proleague a lot... He's definitively more of an inter tournament player imo.
Yeah but it feels at some point in your career you have to accept you're playing Starcraft 2 and not 'International Tournaments.'
These things do matter, but all things considered a player is good when he is good at the game, not when he's good in a particular setting.
I hope he steps up and proves himself as a player instead of doing whatever it is he is doing right now (very uninspiring play overall since gsl). Maybe he's just playing hots too much and I'm exaggerating, idk.
That being said, EGTL really needs to step up their game or be kicked out of PL. Kespa is a tough league where you need to practice specific matchups and maps, prepare for specific opponents, and have a strategy. Right now it feels they send out players randomly and random maps, and those players just play like they would on ladder. It isn't working.
It's a win for esports that you can't simply buy yourself to the top.
i guess this is the reason why the last 4 or 5 teamleague finals in bw were all between skt and kt, the two sponsors that spent by far the most money on their bw team...
The only notable star player transfers in SKT's history were Bisu and July in 2007, and the latter even did terribly.
SKT and KT are receiving the most money because they are the teams that basically built the competitive BW scene and produced dynasties of legendary players. They earned their popularity, sponsors and money through accomplishments, the opposite of "buying themselves to the top".
Yeah... also KT Curse anyone? fOrGG and Luxury both slumped after joining KT. Winning the PL/doing well in PL was (as far as I'm aware) due to KT Zerg channeling some Yellow and Stats/Violet(Rest in Peace) going hard for a while. I wouldn't quite call it the money factor. They scouted out Flash back before he became a legend as well. Sure these teams bought players but for a chunk of BW history there were always strong contenders too.
On February 27 2013 03:27 Irre wrote: I wish I didn't have to "hate" on EG here, but I honestly find EG's promotion driven business and fan/personality driven model to be poisonous to the team. TL is not nearly as obnoxious with this stuff and would not put so much pressure on the players to produce content, reach out to fans all the time, etc. EG also puts so much out and in turn there is a lot more added pressure onto these players that other teams don't have. Sure the other korean teams have fans, but its not all about proving themselves every time. Bottom line, the whole EG superstar player concept makes them very entertaining, but also makes it very hard for the players to just practice and get better. The superstar players like DRG Nestea IMMVP MKP Leenock JJajki (at that time), Parting, Squirtle emerged with beastly teams of people to practice with. This is not how the EGTL house works with their current roster.
The team over there is just not optimal. The foreigners have too many priorities and they don't take proleague seriously enough. I'd say Thorzain is the exception, but he just doesn't seem to be on the level required unfortunately. Stephano just doesn't seem to have the motivation and style to really give PL 110%, he loves free $$$ too much.. Jaedong has held his own, but again hes a superstar and getting older, I don't feel like he has the drive like Flash or Fantasy do right now. Hero, Taeja (minus injury) are fine. Revival is actually good, especially i could see as a practice partner i think. JYP gets too nervous and doesn't perform well with pressure, and mechanically is not all that impressive. Puma has just kinda fallen off and doesnt add much other than maybe practice, but his mechanics aren't super impressive either.
I think to turn this around or turn it around, and for the future, EGTL needs to let some people go (from the house), and have some open trials or something in Korea. They should keep JD, Hero, Taeja Revival as players...and then the rest should go. There is no way these other guys would get into a Kespa Team. They need quality practice partners and to stop waiting around for these other guys to carry their weight. They aren't helping each other improve, and they aren't performing well either. The problem with take this action? It goes against everything EG stands for and is successful/profitable for..so unfortunately I think this experiment has failed. TL has held up its end of the bargain respectably, but EG is just poison for this team.
Both teams are woefullly unprepared for this format. Don't just spout talking points and stuff like "EG bad, Liquid good". That being said, EG could really use players such as Taeja and Hero, especially since they lack a strong Terran. Liquid needs EG as well, since they only have 2 players who are competitive.
Either way, this "Unholy Alliance" is nothing more than a laughingstock now.
On February 27 2013 03:27 Irre wrote: I wish I didn't have to "hate" on EG here, but I honestly find EG's promotion driven business and fan/personality driven model to be poisonous to the team. TL is not nearly as obnoxious with this stuff and would not put so much pressure on the players to produce content, reach out to fans all the time, etc. EG also puts so much out and in turn there is a lot more added pressure onto these players that other teams don't have. Sure the other korean teams have fans, but its not all about proving themselves every time. Bottom line, the whole EG superstar player concept makes them very entertaining, but also makes it very hard for the players to just practice and get better. The superstar players like DRG Nestea IMMVP MKP Leenock JJajki (at that time), Parting, Squirtle emerged with beastly teams of people to practice with. This is not how the EGTL house works with their current roster.
The team over there is just not optimal. The foreigners have too many priorities and they don't take proleague seriously enough. I'd say Thorzain is the exception, but he just doesn't seem to be on the level required unfortunately. Stephano just doesn't seem to have the motivation and style to really give PL 110%, he loves free $$$ too much.. Jaedong has held his own, but again hes a superstar and getting older, I don't feel like he has the drive like Flash or Fantasy do right now. Hero, Taeja (minus injury) are fine. Revival is actually good, especially i could see as a practice partner i think. JYP gets too nervous and doesn't perform well with pressure, and mechanically is not all that impressive. Puma has just kinda fallen off and doesnt add much other than maybe practice, but his mechanics aren't super impressive either.
I think to turn this around or turn it around, and for the future, EGTL needs to let some people go (from the house), and have some open trials or something in Korea. They should keep JD, Hero, Taeja Revival as players...and then the rest should go. There is no way these other guys would get into a Kespa Team. They need quality practice partners and to stop waiting around for these other guys to carry their weight. They aren't helping each other improve, and they aren't performing well either. The problem with take this action? It goes against everything EG stands for and is successful/profitable for..so unfortunately I think this experiment has failed. TL has held up its end of the bargain respectably, but EG is just poison for this team.
Both teams are woefullly unprepared for this format. Don't just spout talking points and stuff like "EG bad, Liquid good". That being said, EG could really use players such as Taeja and Hero, especially since they lack a strong Terran. Liquid needs EG as well, since they only have 2 players who are competitive.
Either way, this "Unholy Alliance" is nothing more than a laughingstock now.
Regardless of what it is at the end of the season, at least we eliminated "what ifs".
On February 26 2013 21:16 Kabras wrote: lolol eztl plz lose more :D. the skill difference between kespa players and everyone else is pretty huge tho. this is pretty embarrassing already, should go back to playing Code A and foreign tourneys.
EG-TL =/= everyone else than KeSPA. Plus, can you remind me where does JD comes from ?
Pretty sad, but the more it goes on, the less it surprises me (and lol @ Stephano asking for series on Twitter. Guy you got practice to do if you want to keep up with the other pro, or at least to justify you earn money that better players don't..)
This is becoming shameful..
He has no interest in practicing WoL anymore with HotS coming around, and even when he wins games his mates lose so why bother .
They better train hard for HotS in order to make a strong showing, it's already over for them this round.
That's why he lost his Code A match, ofc.
Die hard Stephano fans having a hard time coming to grips with reality, what else is new? I guess KT Rolster really has EG-TLs number though, 3 matches and 3 stomps is pretty indicative.
Lol I'm one of the few french who wants Stephano to lose against quite a lot of koreans (mostly terrans) so I'm far from beig a Stephano fan. He lost his code A match which was on WoL, what's your point?
On February 27 2013 00:26 MiQ wrote: JYP and PuMa lost? What a surprise
Need Jaedong back on a real team as EGTL obviously isn't working.
Because you think he'll be able to win a ZvP just by moving to another team ? He won't, he is terrible in that match-up and no one is going to help him but himself.
All I am saying is that maybe if he was surroudned by a competent team he would improve faster.
I doubt it. He'd learn to BO snipe protoss instead of figuring out how ZvP works faster. He'd still be bad at the matchup, except he might get silly wins by executing strats that don't require him to understand the matchup. I'd rather have him learn slowly.
How is this different from understanding the matchup? This is a funny excuse.
I could learn how to proxy gate and hope to catch BO wins vs someone like MKP who's known for going CC first. Ain't got much to do with understanding the matchup, does it? I watch lots of PL and cannon rushes/proxy gates or proxying other stuff is used pretttttttttttty often compared to anywhere else.
Also it's not an excuse, I'm not necessarily a fan of Jaedong or EG. I'm just saying learning how to BO snipe people =|= learning a matchup.
Of course build order countering is how you learn the game. Scouting, reacting to different styles. Of course MKP will make sure not to CC first against somebody who cheeses every game. Against safe styles build order countering would be solid, greedy play based on scouting. And the interpretation of scouted information is your status quo of game knowledge.
A build-order counterer knows a ton more things about the game than a safe macro player - and besides is also a better pro gamer in general, since you play to win, not to play macro or whatever.
I think they simply overestimated their chances in the beginning. Speculating about stuff like practice schedules and coaching won't do anything, it's just up to them to rethink their approach to the whole PL adventure. Yes, most of the EGTL players are underperforming. Yes, their roster seems to be too thin. Yes, the key players are sniped pretty often. None of these issues can be fixed in one night.
I hope they will show better games in R4. It would be a shame, if they ended up as the punching bag of PL.
Sidenote: MrBitter must be a happy man right now.+ Show Spoiler +
On February 27 2013 03:27 Irre wrote: I wish I didn't have to "hate" on EG here, but I honestly find EG's promotion driven business and fan/personality driven model to be poisonous to the team. TL is not nearly as obnoxious with this stuff and would not put so much pressure on the players to produce content, reach out to fans all the time, etc. EG also puts so much out and in turn there is a lot more added pressure onto these players that other teams don't have. Sure the other korean teams have fans, but its not all about proving themselves every time. Bottom line, the whole EG superstar player concept makes them very entertaining, but also makes it very hard for the players to just practice and get better. The superstar players like DRG Nestea IMMVP MKP Leenock JJajki (at that time), Parting, Squirtle emerged with beastly teams of people to practice with. This is not how the EGTL house works with their current roster.
The team over there is just not optimal. The foreigners have too many priorities and they don't take proleague seriously enough. I'd say Thorzain is the exception, but he just doesn't seem to be on the level required unfortunately. Stephano just doesn't seem to have the motivation and style to really give PL 110%, he loves free $$$ too much.. Jaedong has held his own, but again hes a superstar and getting older, I don't feel like he has the drive like Flash or Fantasy do right now. Hero, Taeja (minus injury) are fine. Revival is actually good, especially i could see as a practice partner i think. JYP gets too nervous and doesn't perform well with pressure, and mechanically is not all that impressive. Puma has just kinda fallen off and doesnt add much other than maybe practice, but his mechanics aren't super impressive either.
I think to turn this around or turn it around, and for the future, EGTL needs to let some people go (from the house), and have some open trials or something in Korea. They should keep JD, Hero, Taeja Revival as players...and then the rest should go. There is no way these other guys would get into a Kespa Team. They need quality practice partners and to stop waiting around for these other guys to carry their weight. They aren't helping each other improve, and they aren't performing well either. The problem with take this action? It goes against everything EG stands for and is successful/profitable for..so unfortunately I think this experiment has failed. TL has held up its end of the bargain respectably, but EG is just poison for this team.
JYP has a better PL win-rate than JD, Revival, and Hero. Taeja is only 6-5 so with 1 more loss him and JYP would be equal. JYP's is especially impressive since he's been one of (maybe the most played?) the most played players as well meaning it's harder to keep a good win-rate.
I really dont think its bad as it looks part of it is just randomness. Yes KT is the better team overall, but I think if they played a best of 3 series for each map EG would do better then they did although still lose.
On February 27 2013 12:10 snakeeyez wrote: I really dont think its bad as it looks part of it is just randomness. Yes KT is the better team overall, but I think if they played a best of 3 series for each map EG would do better then they did although still lose.
Going 0-12 though? That's not really random bad luck anymore. One team is getting repeatedly crushed by the better team.
Sad to see the foreign organisations getting roflstomped all over , time and time again.
There is only one foreigner playing, but the chemistry just isnt right, the lineup certainly is a good one on paper, and even tho I dislike EG for their ``we have money and we can randomly add gosus`` attitude while not really caring about team atmosphere or probably even friendship, it still is annoying to see the results of this financial bond.
On February 26 2013 19:18 warmus wrote: This has reached the point where we can finally state that the casters are currently performing better than EGTL in proleague.
This is hilarious and extremely mean at the same time. I love it! It is getting a little embarrassing at this point though. The only foreigner team with the ability to showcase its talent in proleague and doing quite the horrible job at representing
The real question is, will EG-TL and its players be as expensive as fuck as they were in the next FPL round, or will they be as cheap as they are getting demolished currently?
Maybe at 1 points Revival will finally be worth his value...
On February 26 2013 21:16 Kabras wrote: lolol eztl plz lose more :D. the skill difference between kespa players and everyone else is pretty huge tho. this is pretty embarrassing already, should go back to playing Code A and foreign tourneys.
is that why kespa players keep losing in code a and up and downs?
I think because of format 1 KESPA 5GOMTV You must win all people. GOMTV can give win to other friend. However this is my assumption. This season will tell it is true or not because KESPA players are increased
On February 26 2013 21:16 Kabras wrote: lolol eztl plz lose more :D. the skill difference between kespa players and everyone else is pretty huge tho. this is pretty embarrassing already, should go back to playing Code A and foreign tourneys.
is that why kespa players keep losing in code a and up and downs?
I think because of format 1 KESPA 5GOMTV You must win all people. GOMTV can give win to other friend. However this is my assumption. This season will tell it is true or not because KESPA players are increased
that's quite an assumption to make lol
I´m not even sure I understand. But it sounds vaguely conspiratorial, so I´m in.
On February 26 2013 21:16 Kabras wrote: lolol eztl plz lose more :D. the skill difference between kespa players and everyone else is pretty huge tho. this is pretty embarrassing already, should go back to playing Code A and foreign tourneys.
is that why kespa players keep losing in code a and up and downs?
I think because of format 1 KESPA 5GOMTV You must win all people. GOMTV can give win to other friend. However this is my assumption. This season will tell it is true or not because KESPA players are increased
that's quite an assumption to make lol
lol, especially since who is who's friend is not even certain. If you read player interviews, Kespa pros also practice with eSF pros and have friendships as well.
On February 27 2013 12:10 snakeeyez wrote: I really dont think its bad as it looks part of it is just randomness. Yes KT is the better team overall, but I think if they played a best of 3 series for each map EG would do better then they did although still lose.
Going 0-12 though? That's not really random bad luck anymore. One team is getting repeatedly crushed by the better team.
P(win) ~ P (0-12) ~ 1 in X 12-game series ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ .5 ~ .0002 ~ 5000 .4 ~ .0022 ~ 455 .3 ~ .0138 ~ 73 .2 ~ .0687 ~ 15 .1 ~ .2824 ~ 4
So, assuming EGTL had a 50% chance to win each game, we'd expect this result in 1 out of 5000 (independent) 12-game series, etc.
Unless I made an error somewhere, EGTL most likely has a 10-12% (game) win chance vs KT, which leaves us with a 0.26% chance to win a Bo7 (~1 in 400). :D
On February 26 2013 17:15 NightOfTheDead wrote: Why do EG keep Puma if he doesnt care about wining? He actually acknolewdged this himself in several interviews.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I get the feeling EG doesn't care about results so long as their players are popular. After all, it's popularity that attracts sponsor money.
Literally the biggest retard on this site.
well, you know, there's a reason why grubby can pull sponsor money, while someone like yoda or symbol wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell. popularity matters!
To be fair, Grubby got that popular because of his achievements in WC3 and has done decently in SC2. Although it is true that some players get popular due to their stream, personality , humor, ceremonies, etc. Most players still gain popularity by winning.
You are so wrong about Grubby. His WC3 legend status did very little for him in the Starcraft community. I never saw his stream get over 1k views before he went to Korea and he even lost a big sponsor (Steelseries I hink?).
He has earned his popularity by doing a bunch of things like casting, practising his ass off in Korea, doing vlogs, streaming and just being himself, a really likeable guy.
I suggest you go there and contemplate the retardation of the number you've just pulled out of your ass. Why do people come and invent statistics to serve their retarded arguments? And saying Grubby's WC3 legend status did very little for him, do you even believe that yourself? lol
Why are you posting numbers from this year? I was talking about the time before he went to Korea for the first time to practice in the oGs house. He wasnt very popular back then in the community and he even lost Steelseries as a sponsor because they werent happy with his performance and ROI.
Then he improved as a player and even started casting which gave him a huge boost in popularity, he gave great interviews and people saw him at Homesory Cup and realized that he is a really cool guy. He didnt start of with 4k viewers right off the bat as soon as he switched, he got there eventually by promoting himself and improving. Legendary status means that you will always be recognizeable but it can only take you so far just look at Nada and July.
On February 26 2013 17:15 NightOfTheDead wrote: Why do EG keep Puma if he doesnt care about wining? He actually acknolewdged this himself in several interviews.
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I get the feeling EG doesn't care about results so long as their players are popular. After all, it's popularity that attracts sponsor money.
Literally the biggest retard on this site.
well, you know, there's a reason why grubby can pull sponsor money, while someone like yoda or symbol wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell. popularity matters!
To be fair, Grubby got that popular because of his achievements in WC3 and has done decently in SC2. Although it is true that some players get popular due to their stream, personality , humor, ceremonies, etc. Most players still gain popularity by winning.
You are so wrong about Grubby. His WC3 legend status did very little for him in the Starcraft community. I never saw his stream get over 1k views before he went to Korea and he even lost a big sponsor (Steelseries I hink?).
He has earned his popularity by doing a bunch of things like casting, practising his ass off in Korea, doing vlogs, streaming and just being himself, a really likeable guy.
I suggest you go there and contemplate the retardation of the number you've just pulled out of your ass. Why do people come and invent statistics to serve their retarded arguments? And saying Grubby's WC3 legend status did very little for him, do you even believe that yourself? lol
Why are you posting numbers from this year? I was talking about the time before he went to Korea for the first time to practice in the oGs house. He wasnt very popular back then in the community and he even lost Steelseries as a sponsor because they werent happy with his performance and ROI.
Then he improved as a player and even started casting which gave him a huge boost in popularity, he gave great interviews and people saw him at Homesory Cup and realized that he is a really cool guy. He didnt start of with 4k viewers right off the bat as soon as he switched, he got there eventually by promoting himself and improving. Legendary status means that you will always be recognizeable but it can only take you so far just look at Nada and July.
Grubby was the paramount of his race - Orc. Like Moon was to Night Elf, Sky was to Human, Madfrog was to Undead. Like BoxeR and Flash to Terran, saviOr and Jaedong to Zerg, Bisu and Stork to Protoss. Obviously, these are not facts and rather popular opinion, but it's interesting to note that Jaedong's debut stream after signing on EG was pulling significantly more viewers while Grubby had nowhere near that number when he first started streaming SC2.
EPT
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Twitch EN![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/L5xSY.png)
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JYP < Neo Arkanoid > 
Flash
Jaedong < Entombed Valley > ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bv8Kw.png)
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It's really common on this map and JD just isn't that good at it. 
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