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Hellbats haven't been nerfed at all, you just can't transform hellions into hellbats without the upgrade. You can still build hellbats right away without any upgrade. There's no reason they would be worse now in the midgame than they were before.
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On February 24 2013 19:08 achan1058 wrote:IMO he should come out and show MC who's boss.
Haha, that would be so awesome! :D
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United Kingdom12039 Posts
Just waiting for game 5 to be processed so I can watch it.
Huuuryyy uuuuup I wanna see Jjakji!
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On February 24 2013 19:18 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2013 19:12 vthree wrote:On February 24 2013 19:08 kheldorin wrote:On February 24 2013 19:05 Nebuchad wrote:On February 24 2013 19:02 iky43210 wrote:On February 24 2013 18:59 Lysanias wrote:On February 24 2013 18:56 iky43210 wrote:On February 24 2013 18:51 Dodgin wrote:
woah infestors in a non zvz still very good units. Also I find it funny how alot of zerg pros are complaining about terran and protoss on STOG and stream, then zerg proceed to all kills in GSTL almost twice Yeah what are all those pro's opinions compared to an real expert as yours. OT: grats to Byul and MC, and ofc IM. Most of those "pros" opinions are laughable. They have invested too much into their race to be able to properly see things without bias. Take what they say with grain of salt You're right about this but you make it sound as if the audience is going to have less bias, which I find amusing. Everyone is biased, deal with it. Even reality is biased (because of the number of great zergs still gunning for WoL championships as opposed to terran and protoss, blablabla) Then isn't the best way is to just shut up and admit that no one knows which race is imbalanced? At this point of the game, anyone's opinions including the "pros" hold little weight. Yes, but from Blizzard's post explaining the nerfs. Hellbat in early game TvZ was THE most troubling issue and had to be dealt with right away. But after the nerf, terrans aren't even making hellbats much in TvZ. Nerfs should make something less useful, it shouldn't make it so the unit NOT useful. Given terran's history (ghost in TvP for example =) ) I wouldn't say for sure that hellbats are completely useless now just because they haven't been used for a few games. Given how many lings Byul made I'm pretty sure hellbats could have helped jjakji in this game, maybe I'm wrong but I would have liked to see it for myself.
Yes, if he knew ahead of time that Byul would go ling heavy, then hellbats would have helped. But there is no way for him to know that. If ByuL goes hydras (or mutas), then the hellbats are not very effective. Byul might have also made more lings because he didn't see hellbats.
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On February 24 2013 22:39 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2013 19:18 Nebuchad wrote:On February 24 2013 19:12 vthree wrote:On February 24 2013 19:08 kheldorin wrote:On February 24 2013 19:05 Nebuchad wrote:On February 24 2013 19:02 iky43210 wrote:On February 24 2013 18:59 Lysanias wrote:On February 24 2013 18:56 iky43210 wrote:On February 24 2013 18:51 Dodgin wrote:
woah infestors in a non zvz still very good units. Also I find it funny how alot of zerg pros are complaining about terran and protoss on STOG and stream, then zerg proceed to all kills in GSTL almost twice Yeah what are all those pro's opinions compared to an real expert as yours. OT: grats to Byul and MC, and ofc IM. Most of those "pros" opinions are laughable. They have invested too much into their race to be able to properly see things without bias. Take what they say with grain of salt You're right about this but you make it sound as if the audience is going to have less bias, which I find amusing. Everyone is biased, deal with it. Even reality is biased (because of the number of great zergs still gunning for WoL championships as opposed to terran and protoss, blablabla) Then isn't the best way is to just shut up and admit that no one knows which race is imbalanced? At this point of the game, anyone's opinions including the "pros" hold little weight. Yes, but from Blizzard's post explaining the nerfs. Hellbat in early game TvZ was THE most troubling issue and had to be dealt with right away. But after the nerf, terrans aren't even making hellbats much in TvZ. Nerfs should make something less useful, it shouldn't make it so the unit NOT useful. Given terran's history (ghost in TvP for example =) ) I wouldn't say for sure that hellbats are completely useless now just because they haven't been used for a few games. Given how many lings Byul made I'm pretty sure hellbats could have helped jjakji in this game, maybe I'm wrong but I would have liked to see it for myself. Yes, if he knew ahead of time that Byul would go ling heavy, then hellbats would have helped. But there is no way for him to know that. If ByuL goes hydras (or mutas), then the hellbats are not very effective. Byul might have also made more lings because he didn't see hellbats.
Okay I'm not sure I have a problem with that. There should be a reaction part in SC2, if you counter the opponent's compo then you should be at an advantage, and vice versa. I'm happy that the zerg has ways to counter the usage of hellbats (like going hydras or mutas), and I'm happy that the usage of hellbats counters some zerg compositions (like ling heavy or roach heavy).
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On February 24 2013 23:18 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2013 22:39 vthree wrote:On February 24 2013 19:18 Nebuchad wrote:On February 24 2013 19:12 vthree wrote:On February 24 2013 19:08 kheldorin wrote:On February 24 2013 19:05 Nebuchad wrote:On February 24 2013 19:02 iky43210 wrote:On February 24 2013 18:59 Lysanias wrote:On February 24 2013 18:56 iky43210 wrote:On February 24 2013 18:51 Dodgin wrote:
woah infestors in a non zvz still very good units. Also I find it funny how alot of zerg pros are complaining about terran and protoss on STOG and stream, then zerg proceed to all kills in GSTL almost twice Yeah what are all those pro's opinions compared to an real expert as yours. OT: grats to Byul and MC, and ofc IM. Most of those "pros" opinions are laughable. They have invested too much into their race to be able to properly see things without bias. Take what they say with grain of salt You're right about this but you make it sound as if the audience is going to have less bias, which I find amusing. Everyone is biased, deal with it. Even reality is biased (because of the number of great zergs still gunning for WoL championships as opposed to terran and protoss, blablabla) Then isn't the best way is to just shut up and admit that no one knows which race is imbalanced? At this point of the game, anyone's opinions including the "pros" hold little weight. Yes, but from Blizzard's post explaining the nerfs. Hellbat in early game TvZ was THE most troubling issue and had to be dealt with right away. But after the nerf, terrans aren't even making hellbats much in TvZ. Nerfs should make something less useful, it shouldn't make it so the unit NOT useful. Given terran's history (ghost in TvP for example =) ) I wouldn't say for sure that hellbats are completely useless now just because they haven't been used for a few games. Given how many lings Byul made I'm pretty sure hellbats could have helped jjakji in this game, maybe I'm wrong but I would have liked to see it for myself. Yes, if he knew ahead of time that Byul would go ling heavy, then hellbats would have helped. But there is no way for him to know that. If ByuL goes hydras (or mutas), then the hellbats are not very effective. Byul might have also made more lings because he didn't see hellbats. Okay I'm not sure I have a problem with that. There should be a reaction part in SC2, if you counter the opponent's compo then you should be at an advantage, and vice versa. I'm happy that the zerg has ways to counter the usage of hellbats (like going hydras or mutas), and I'm happy that the usage of hellbats counters some zerg compositions (like ling heavy or roach heavy).
Yes, of course reacting to your opponent is a key factor. But due to the way unit production works for the 2 races, zergs are more 'flexible' in terms of switching between units types. One of the advantages of having a high number of early hellbats (transformed from hellions) was it forces the zerg to get a roach warren. Everything else can be dealt with by lings and Queens(hellions, reapers, etc). By forcing the roach warren, terrans were able to delay muta tech so they have more time to prepare.
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FFS, Terran so Imba and impossible to beat yet again.
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United States3648 Posts
On February 24 2013 23:59 AxionSteel wrote:
FFS, Terran so Imba and impossible to beat yet again.
Indeed, this display of Terran dominance we're seeing so far in HotS is quite disappointing.
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On February 25 2013 00:05 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2013 23:59 AxionSteel wrote:
FFS, Terran so Imba and impossible to beat yet again. Indeed, this display of Terran dominance we're seeing so far in HotS is quite disappointing.
This is sarcasm right? Terran isn't really dominating and no one is really complaining that they are.
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On February 25 2013 00:41 wammyz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 00:05 forsooth wrote:On February 24 2013 23:59 AxionSteel wrote:
FFS, Terran so Imba and impossible to beat yet again. Indeed, this display of Terran dominance we're seeing so far in HotS is quite disappointing. This is sarcasm right? Terran isn't really dominating and no one is really complaining that they are.
are you romanian or something?
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On February 25 2013 00:54 Schelim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 00:41 wammyz wrote:On February 25 2013 00:05 forsooth wrote:On February 24 2013 23:59 AxionSteel wrote:
FFS, Terran so Imba and impossible to beat yet again. Indeed, this display of Terran dominance we're seeing so far in HotS is quite disappointing. This is sarcasm right? Terran isn't really dominating and no one is really complaining that they are. are you romanian or something?
No, I get he is being sarcastic. I just have no clue why.
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So far we have pretty even racial statistics for the preseason.
TvZ is at 5-7
PvZ is at 2-2
TvP is at 3-3
If this is nut just a fluke, the current HotS version could proove to have quite a good balance.
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On February 25 2013 02:29 TeeTS wrote:
So far we have pretty even racial statistics for the preseason.
TvZ is at 5-7
PvZ is at 2-2
TvP is at 3-3
If this is nut just a fluke, the current HotS version could proove to have quite a good balance.
You are mixing results with old and new patch?
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France12912 Posts
A sample size of 4 games (seriously? xD) is not enough to conclude anything. Even the 5-7 is a very small sample size.
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Is Losira not on IM anymore or he is just like screw the preseason? It worries me how hes not going to the studio.
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I think there's a cap on the number of players a team can have in the lineup per match, so IM being so huge can't bring everyone to the studio since Ragnarok, Ruin and Byul are also on the team now.
I checked both of IM's match VODs and their lineup is Nestea Mvp Seed Yonghwa First Ruin Byul Ragnarok Yoda MC. I think the cap is 10.
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Still watching the games. Tassadar vs MC was pretty cool to see.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On February 24 2013 19:06 Asha` wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2013 19:01 BigFan wrote:On February 24 2013 18:57 Asha` wrote:On February 24 2013 18:56 BigFan wrote:On February 24 2013 18:47 AbuntuGuntu wrote:
I'm really suprised every terran is going bio in TvZ so far probably since it was the standard in both BW and WoL, at least that's my guess. Pretty much GG or very close to it. or because they think it's better vs competent opponents. Jjakji played plenty of Mech v Z in WoL did he? I mostly remember his GSL finals against Leenock and I think that was mostly bio but I haven't seen much of his matches otherwise but if mech is supposed to be stronger, maybe it would've been a better idea? I dunno though. He played it pretty regularly towards the end of WoL. You can pretty much bet that every pro has experimented with every style of play tbh. Even a die hard bio player like Polt has ground out mech builds on his stream even if he doesn't use them. Whether mech is supposed to be stronger or not is pretty hard to answer. I certainly don't think Zerg got worse at dealing with the mech cores, and after the hellbat cargo space nerf it may be that T players feel bio offers a much better capability to be able to actually pressure the Zerg while still handling the mid game tech choices. We'll see what happens in the next month, it's an exciting time =)
oh ok fair enough. Definitely excited to see what happens in the next several months as well 
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EPT
