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On February 20 2013 11:15 Elite_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 11:04 Bagration wrote:
Not going to lie, seeing Liquid back in the Premier division after going 0-6 in matches over the past 2 seasons feels wrong to me. It reminds me of GSL 2011, when players like Ensnare held Code S spots all the way until the tournament format was finally reformed.
I think the IPTL format is starting to see some of the same issues that the GSL format had back in 2011. What 10 teams are going to be in your ideal Premier Division then? KeSPA teams can't participate... There's only 7 eSF teams... That leaves room for 3 foreign teams... I'd say Liquid is one of the top 3 foreign teams...
I think you meant 8 teams...
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On February 20 2013 11:15 Elite_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 11:04 Bagration wrote:
Not going to lie, seeing Liquid back in the Premier division after going 0-6 in matches over the past 2 seasons feels wrong to me. It reminds me of GSL 2011, when players like Ensnare held Code S spots all the way until the tournament format was finally reformed.
I think the IPTL format is starting to see some of the same issues that the GSL format had back in 2011. What 10 teams are going to be in your ideal Premier Division then? KeSPA teams can't participate... There's only 7 eSF teams... That leaves room for 3 foreign teams... I'd say Liquid is one of the top 3 foreign teams...
First off, the term foreign team is largely meaningless now. There is hardly a major non-Korean team that does not have a Korean player on their roster.
The reason I'm concerned is because the format seems...imperfect. Liquid has gone 0-6 over 2 seasons, and including Up and Down, they have a 25% winrate. Technically Liquid has earned a spot in the Premier division, but it certainly doesn't feel that way. It doesn't really have anything to do with how strong they "should" be on paper. They just have not been getting results that I feel merit another season in the Premier division.
On February 20 2013 11:20 wklbishop wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 11:15 Elite_ wrote:On February 20 2013 11:04 Bagration wrote:
Not going to lie, seeing Liquid back in the Premier division after going 0-6 in matches over the past 2 seasons feels wrong to me. It reminds me of GSL 2011, when players like Ensnare held Code S spots all the way until the tournament format was finally reformed.
I think the IPTL format is starting to see some of the same issues that the GSL format had back in 2011. What 10 teams are going to be in your ideal Premier Division then? KeSPA teams can't participate... There's only 7 eSF teams... That leaves room for 3 foreign teams... I'd say Liquid is one of the top 3 foreign teams... I think you meant 8 teams...
They are increasing the IPTL Premier and Contender division to 10 teams each next season.
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On February 20 2013 11:04 Bagration wrote:
Not going to lie, seeing Liquid back in the Premier division after going 0-6 in matches over the past 2 seasons feels wrong to me. It reminds me of GSL 2011, when players like Ensnare held Code S spots all the way until the tournament format was finally reformed.
I think the IPTL format is starting to see some of the same issues that the GSL format had back in 2011.
Well, I think it is more due to the lack of tier 1 teams. The 2011 format you mention only had 8 players (25%) in Code S falling to Up&Downs while IPTL has (50%).
But if you look at the 4 teams from Premier and 4 from Contender
FXO, Prime, TL, Karont3, NSHS, Acer, Complexity, Root.
And if you had to pick top 4, which would you go with? TL actually beat NSHS which was probably the strongest in the Contender's division.
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On February 20 2013 11:21 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 11:15 Elite_ wrote:On February 20 2013 11:04 Bagration wrote:
Not going to lie, seeing Liquid back in the Premier division after going 0-6 in matches over the past 2 seasons feels wrong to me. It reminds me of GSL 2011, when players like Ensnare held Code S spots all the way until the tournament format was finally reformed.
I think the IPTL format is starting to see some of the same issues that the GSL format had back in 2011. What 10 teams are going to be in your ideal Premier Division then? KeSPA teams can't participate... There's only 7 eSF teams... That leaves room for 3 foreign teams... I'd say Liquid is one of the top 3 foreign teams... First off, the term foreign team is largely meaningless now. There is hardly a major non-Korean team that does not have a Korean player on their roster. The reason I'm concerned is because the format seems...imperfect. Liquid has gone 0-6 over 2 seasons, and including Up and Down, they have a 25% winrate. Technically Liquid has earned a spot in the Premier division, but it certainly doesn't feel that way. It doesn't really have anything to do with how strong they "should" be on paper. They just have not been getting results that I feel merit another season in the Premier division. Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 11:20 wklbishop wrote:On February 20 2013 11:15 Elite_ wrote:On February 20 2013 11:04 Bagration wrote:
Not going to lie, seeing Liquid back in the Premier division after going 0-6 in matches over the past 2 seasons feels wrong to me. It reminds me of GSL 2011, when players like Ensnare held Code S spots all the way until the tournament format was finally reformed.
I think the IPTL format is starting to see some of the same issues that the GSL format had back in 2011. What 10 teams are going to be in your ideal Premier Division then? KeSPA teams can't participate... There's only 7 eSF teams... That leaves room for 3 foreign teams... I'd say Liquid is one of the top 3 foreign teams... I think you meant 8 teams... They are increasing the IPTL Premier and Contender division to 10 teams each next season.
I see where you are coming from. But I think teams like NSHS, Acer, Root, Complexity would have similiar records playing the likes of ST, MVP, LG-IM, etc. Can they upset these teams? Possibility. But they would still be huge underdogs.
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On February 20 2013 11:22 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 11:04 Bagration wrote:
Not going to lie, seeing Liquid back in the Premier division after going 0-6 in matches over the past 2 seasons feels wrong to me. It reminds me of GSL 2011, when players like Ensnare held Code S spots all the way until the tournament format was finally reformed.
I think the IPTL format is starting to see some of the same issues that the GSL format had back in 2011. Well, I think it is more due to the lack of tier 1 teams. The 2011 format you mention only had 8 players (25%) in Code S falling to Up&Downs while IPTL has (50%). But if you look at the 4 teams from Premier and 4 from Contender FXO, Prime, TL, Karont3, NSHS, Acer, Complexity, Root. And if you had to pick top 4, which would you go with? TL actually beat NSHS which was probably the strongest in the Contender's division.
I agree with you about the lack of Tier 1 teams. With oGs, Slayers, and TSL disbanding, the number of top level teams in this tournament has fallen. I personally wouldn't mind if IPTL would try to get teams like Azubu or Axiom to participate though (I certainly won't hold my breathe for Kespa teams).
What I would like to actually see is maybe IPTL taking a page from the GSL book. Maybe the lowest performing team from the Premier division gets seeded into the Contender division, and has to play it out there as well.
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Wait, is this a re-airing? Someone care to post the winner in a spoiler tag then? Would be much appreciated, thanks! 
E: never mind, found it on liquipedia!
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On February 20 2013 11:27 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 11:22 vthree wrote:On February 20 2013 11:04 Bagration wrote:
Not going to lie, seeing Liquid back in the Premier division after going 0-6 in matches over the past 2 seasons feels wrong to me. It reminds me of GSL 2011, when players like Ensnare held Code S spots all the way until the tournament format was finally reformed.
I think the IPTL format is starting to see some of the same issues that the GSL format had back in 2011. Well, I think it is more due to the lack of tier 1 teams. The 2011 format you mention only had 8 players (25%) in Code S falling to Up&Downs while IPTL has (50%). But if you look at the 4 teams from Premier and 4 from Contender FXO, Prime, TL, Karont3, NSHS, Acer, Complexity, Root. And if you had to pick top 4, which would you go with? TL actually beat NSHS which was probably the strongest in the Contender's division. I agree with you about the lack of Tier 1 teams. With oGs, Slayers, and TSL disbanding, the number of top level teams in this tournament has fallen. I personally wouldn't mind if IPTL would try to get teams like Azubu or Axiom to participate though (I certainly won't hold my breathe for Kespa teams). What I would like to actually see is maybe IPTL taking a page from the GSL book. Maybe the lowest performing team from the Premier division gets seeded into the Contender division, and has to play it out there as well.
It is likely that Azubu and Axiom will join next season. As for your last suggestion, I think it might be hard to schedule since unlike GSL, it is round robin. So unless they change their scheduling a lot, it might be difficult. Would the contender division only have 6 teams and wait for the 2 from premier? Or would it have 8 teams and have a total of 10 when the last place premier teams join?
GSL works because it is more a bracket single elim in Code A and the scheduling is different.
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On February 20 2013 11:27 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 11:22 vthree wrote:On February 20 2013 11:04 Bagration wrote:
Not going to lie, seeing Liquid back in the Premier division after going 0-6 in matches over the past 2 seasons feels wrong to me. It reminds me of GSL 2011, when players like Ensnare held Code S spots all the way until the tournament format was finally reformed.
I think the IPTL format is starting to see some of the same issues that the GSL format had back in 2011. Well, I think it is more due to the lack of tier 1 teams. The 2011 format you mention only had 8 players (25%) in Code S falling to Up&Downs while IPTL has (50%). But if you look at the 4 teams from Premier and 4 from Contender FXO, Prime, TL, Karont3, NSHS, Acer, Complexity, Root. And if you had to pick top 4, which would you go with? TL actually beat NSHS which was probably the strongest in the Contender's division. I agree with you about the lack of Tier 1 teams. With oGs, Slayers, and TSL disbanding, the number of top level teams in this tournament has fallen. I personally wouldn't mind if IPTL would try to get teams like Azubu or Axiom to participate though (I certainly won't hold my breathe for Kespa teams). What I would like to actually see is maybe IPTL taking a page from the GSL book. Maybe the lowest performing team from the Premier division gets seeded into the Contender division, and has to play it out there as well.
+ Show Spoiler +
I agree with the part about lowest team automatically being seeded into Contender division now that there's 10 teams. Maybe make the top team of the Contender division seeded into Premier next season too. It guarantees at least a slightly different group of teams each season...
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On February 20 2013 12:02 Elite_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 11:27 Bagration wrote:On February 20 2013 11:22 vthree wrote:On February 20 2013 11:04 Bagration wrote:
Not going to lie, seeing Liquid back in the Premier division after going 0-6 in matches over the past 2 seasons feels wrong to me. It reminds me of GSL 2011, when players like Ensnare held Code S spots all the way until the tournament format was finally reformed.
I think the IPTL format is starting to see some of the same issues that the GSL format had back in 2011. Well, I think it is more due to the lack of tier 1 teams. The 2011 format you mention only had 8 players (25%) in Code S falling to Up&Downs while IPTL has (50%). But if you look at the 4 teams from Premier and 4 from Contender FXO, Prime, TL, Karont3, NSHS, Acer, Complexity, Root. And if you had to pick top 4, which would you go with? TL actually beat NSHS which was probably the strongest in the Contender's division. I agree with you about the lack of Tier 1 teams. With oGs, Slayers, and TSL disbanding, the number of top level teams in this tournament has fallen. I personally wouldn't mind if IPTL would try to get teams like Azubu or Axiom to participate though (I certainly won't hold my breathe for Kespa teams). What I would like to actually see is maybe IPTL taking a page from the GSL book. Maybe the lowest performing team from the Premier division gets seeded into the Contender division, and has to play it out there as well. + Show Spoiler +I agree with the part about lowest team automatically being seeded into Contender division now that there's 10 teams. Maybe make the top team of the Contender division seeded into Premier next season too. It guarantees at least a slightly different group of teams each season...
(My next post, below, might be clearer than this one)
Perhaps...
For each Premiere Division Group:
1st advances to R2 of Playoffs
2nd advances to R1 of Playoffs
3rd advances to R1 of Playoffs
4th drops to U&Ds
5th drops to Contender Division next season
Playoffs are then:
Group A 1st vs. (Group B 2nd vs. Group A 3rd)
Group B 1st vs. (Group A 2nd vs. Group B 3rd)
The top 4 are guaranteed to remain in premiere division
5th/6th drop to the U&Ds
Contender Division Groups:
1st advances to Premiere division next season
2nd advances to U&Ds
3rd advances to U&Ds
4th drops and must requalify
5th drops and must requalify
U&Ds are then:
Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd
Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd
Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd
Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd
Qualifiers are 4 single elimination brackets, resulting in 4 winners who advance to the Contender division.
Thus each season the Premiere groups could be:
[Premiere Group A]
Previous Season Premiere 1st
Previous Season Premiere 4th (team who lost to 2nd in the semi)
Previous Season Contender Group A 1st
Winner of an U&D "Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd"
Winner of an U&D "Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd"
[Premiere Group B]
Previous Season Premiere 2nd
Previous Season Premiere 3rd (team who lost to 1st in the semi)
Previous Season Contender Group B 1st
Winner of an U&D "Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd"
Winner of an U&D "Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd"
And for Contender:
[Contender Group A]
Previous Season Premiere Group B 5th (swapped A->B because cont->prem is A->A)
Loser of an U&D "Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd"
Loser of an U&D "Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd"
Qualifying Team #1
Qualifying Team #2
[Contender Group B]
Previous Season Premiere Group A 5th (swapped B->A because cont->prem is B->B)
Loser of an U&D "Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd"
Loser of an U&D "Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd"
Qualifying Team #3
Qualifying Team #4
Of course you can simplify it by making the playoffs in premiere division only involve 4 teams, but I think it's more fun if it's a 6-man single elimination. Plus, it accounts for the case where one group is weaker than the other, where as going straight to 4 doesn't as much.
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1184 Posts
On February 20 2013 12:30 MCXD wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 12:02 Elite_ wrote:On February 20 2013 11:27 Bagration wrote:On February 20 2013 11:22 vthree wrote:On February 20 2013 11:04 Bagration wrote:
Not going to lie, seeing Liquid back in the Premier division after going 0-6 in matches over the past 2 seasons feels wrong to me. It reminds me of GSL 2011, when players like Ensnare held Code S spots all the way until the tournament format was finally reformed.
I think the IPTL format is starting to see some of the same issues that the GSL format had back in 2011. Well, I think it is more due to the lack of tier 1 teams. The 2011 format you mention only had 8 players (25%) in Code S falling to Up&Downs while IPTL has (50%). But if you look at the 4 teams from Premier and 4 from Contender FXO, Prime, TL, Karont3, NSHS, Acer, Complexity, Root. And if you had to pick top 4, which would you go with? TL actually beat NSHS which was probably the strongest in the Contender's division. I agree with you about the lack of Tier 1 teams. With oGs, Slayers, and TSL disbanding, the number of top level teams in this tournament has fallen. I personally wouldn't mind if IPTL would try to get teams like Azubu or Axiom to participate though (I certainly won't hold my breathe for Kespa teams). What I would like to actually see is maybe IPTL taking a page from the GSL book. Maybe the lowest performing team from the Premier division gets seeded into the Contender division, and has to play it out there as well. + Show Spoiler +I agree with the part about lowest team automatically being seeded into Contender division now that there's 10 teams. Maybe make the top team of the Contender division seeded into Premier next season too. It guarantees at least a slightly different group of teams each season... + Show Spoiler +Perhaps...
For each Premiere Division Group:
1st advances to R2 of Playoffs
2nd advances to R1 of Playoffs
3rd advances to R1 of Playoffs
4th drops to U&Ds
5th drops to Contender Division next season
Playoffs are then:
Group A 1st vs. (Group B 2nd vs. Group A 3rd)
Group B 1st vs. (Group A 2nd vs. Group B 3rd)
The top 4 are guaranteed to remain in premiere division
5th/6th drop to the U&Ds
Contender Division Groups:
1st advances to Premiere division next season
2nd advances to U&Ds
3rd advances to U&Ds
4th drops and must requalify
5th drops and must requalify
U&Ds are then:
Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd
Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd
Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd
Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd
Qualifiers are 4 single elimination brackets, resulting in 4 winners who advance to the Contender division.
Thus each season the Premiere groups could be:
[Premiere Group A]
Previous Season Premiere 1st
Previous Season Premiere 4th (team who lost to 2nd in the semi)
Previous Season Contender Group A 1st
Winner of an U&D "Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd"
Winner of an U&D "Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd"
[Premiere Group B]
Previous Season Premiere 2nd
Previous Season Premiere 3rd (team who lost to 1st in the semi)
Previous Season Contender Group B 1st
Winner of an U&D "Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd"
Winner of an U&D "Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd"
And for Contender:
[Contender Group A]
Previous Season Premiere Group B 5th (swapped A->B because cont->prem is A->A)
Loser of an U&D "Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd"
Loser of an U&D "Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd"
Qualifying Team #1
Qualifying Team #2
[Contender Group B]
Previous Season Premiere Group A 5th (swapped B->A because cont->prem is B->B)
Loser of an U&D "Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd"
Loser of an U&D "Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd"
Qualifying Team #3
Qualifying Team #4
Of course you can simplify it by making the playoffs in premiere division only involve 4 teams, but I think it's more fun if it's a 6-man single elimination. Plus, it accounts for the case where one group is weaker than the other, where as going straight to 4 doesn't as much.
Thanks for writing this all out! This is along the lines of what we're thinking, though we prefer to play Premier and Contender simultaneously, as that creates a better narrative and scheduling for the season. Definitely gonna show this to the other IPL folks.
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On February 20 2013 13:04 IGNProLeague wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 12:30 MCXD wrote:On February 20 2013 12:02 Elite_ wrote:On February 20 2013 11:27 Bagration wrote:On February 20 2013 11:22 vthree wrote:On February 20 2013 11:04 Bagration wrote:
Not going to lie, seeing Liquid back in the Premier division after going 0-6 in matches over the past 2 seasons feels wrong to me. It reminds me of GSL 2011, when players like Ensnare held Code S spots all the way until the tournament format was finally reformed.
I think the IPTL format is starting to see some of the same issues that the GSL format had back in 2011. Well, I think it is more due to the lack of tier 1 teams. The 2011 format you mention only had 8 players (25%) in Code S falling to Up&Downs while IPTL has (50%). But if you look at the 4 teams from Premier and 4 from Contender FXO, Prime, TL, Karont3, NSHS, Acer, Complexity, Root. And if you had to pick top 4, which would you go with? TL actually beat NSHS which was probably the strongest in the Contender's division. I agree with you about the lack of Tier 1 teams. With oGs, Slayers, and TSL disbanding, the number of top level teams in this tournament has fallen. I personally wouldn't mind if IPTL would try to get teams like Azubu or Axiom to participate though (I certainly won't hold my breathe for Kespa teams). What I would like to actually see is maybe IPTL taking a page from the GSL book. Maybe the lowest performing team from the Premier division gets seeded into the Contender division, and has to play it out there as well. + Show Spoiler +I agree with the part about lowest team automatically being seeded into Contender division now that there's 10 teams. Maybe make the top team of the Contender division seeded into Premier next season too. It guarantees at least a slightly different group of teams each season... + Show Spoiler +Perhaps...
For each Premiere Division Group:
1st advances to R2 of Playoffs
2nd advances to R1 of Playoffs
3rd advances to R1 of Playoffs
4th drops to U&Ds
5th drops to Contender Division next season
Playoffs are then:
Group A 1st vs. (Group B 2nd vs. Group A 3rd)
Group B 1st vs. (Group A 2nd vs. Group B 3rd)
The top 4 are guaranteed to remain in premiere division
5th/6th drop to the U&Ds
Contender Division Groups:
1st advances to Premiere division next season
2nd advances to U&Ds
3rd advances to U&Ds
4th drops and must requalify
5th drops and must requalify
U&Ds are then:
Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd
Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd
Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd
Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd
Qualifiers are 4 single elimination brackets, resulting in 4 winners who advance to the Contender division.
Thus each season the Premiere groups could be:
[Premiere Group A]
Previous Season Premiere 1st
Previous Season Premiere 4th (team who lost to 2nd in the semi)
Previous Season Contender Group A 1st
Winner of an U&D "Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd"
Winner of an U&D "Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd"
[Premiere Group B]
Previous Season Premiere 2nd
Previous Season Premiere 3rd (team who lost to 1st in the semi)
Previous Season Contender Group B 1st
Winner of an U&D "Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd"
Winner of an U&D "Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd"
And for Contender:
[Contender Group A]
Previous Season Premiere Group B 5th (swapped A->B because cont->prem is A->A)
Loser of an U&D "Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd"
Loser of an U&D "Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd"
Qualifying Team #1
Qualifying Team #2
[Contender Group B]
Previous Season Premiere Group A 5th (swapped B->A because cont->prem is B->B)
Loser of an U&D "Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd"
Loser of an U&D "Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd"
Qualifying Team #3
Qualifying Team #4
Of course you can simplify it by making the playoffs in premiere division only involve 4 teams, but I think it's more fun if it's a 6-man single elimination. Plus, it accounts for the case where one group is weaker than the other, where as going straight to 4 doesn't as much. Thanks for writing this all out! This is along the lines of what we're thinking, though we prefer to play Premier and Contender simultaneously, as that creates a better narrative and scheduling for the season. Definitely gonna show this to the other IPL folks.
It's very possible to play them out simultaneously. I just formatted them separately for clarity 
In schedule order I suppose you could do something like...
Week 1:
Premiere Group A Match 1
Premiere Group B Match 1
Contender Group A Match 1
Contender Group B Match 1
Week 2:
Premiere Group A Match 2
Premiere Group B Match 2
Contender Group A Match 2
Contender Group B Match 2
(and so on...)
Week 10:
Premiere Group A Match 10
Premiere Group B Match 10
Contender Group A Match 10
Contender Group B Match 10
At this point, Premiere division Playoffs would be:
Ro6 Ro4 Ro2
Group A 1st \
\______
Group B 2nd \ / \
--------------/ \
Group A 3rd / \______
/
Group B 1st \ /
\______/
Group A 2nd \ /
--------------/
Group B 3rd /
Where as 4th in both groups is dropped to the U&Ds, and 5th is dropped to next season's Contender Division.
Also, 1st for both of the current season's Contender Division is promoted to next season's Premiere Division. 2nd and 3rd from the Contender Division are placed into the U&Ds. 4th and 5th drop out of the competition and must re-qualify.
Continuing:
Week 11:
Premiere Ro6 Match #1
Premiere Ro6 Match #2
U&D Match 1 (Premiere Group A 4th vs. Contender Group A 2nd)
U&D Match 2 (Premiere Group B 4th vs. Contender Group B 2nd)
Now that the Ro6 matches are done, the losers of that also fall into the U&Ds...
Week 12:
Premiere Ro4 Match #1
Premiere Ro4 Match #2
U&D Match 3 (Premiere Ro6 Loser #1 vs. Contender Group A 3rd)
U&D Match 4 (Premiere Ro6 Loser #2 vs. Contender Group B 3rd)
Then all that remains is the Premiere Grand Final (Week 13/14)!
Amateur bracket can be played at any point, either after the conclusion of the Contender Division (so as to include the dropouts) or during it (excluding the dropouts). The amateur finals can be broadcast either directly before or directly after the Premiere grand finals (Week 13/14).
Next season's groups would then be:
Prem A:
The Prem Champion
Prem 3rd/4th who lost to the runner-up
Contender Group A 1st
U&D Match 2 winner
U&D Match 3 winner
Prem B:
Last season's Prem Runner-up
Prem 3rd/4th who lost to the champion
Contender Group B 1st
U&D Match 1 winner
U&D Match 4 winner
Cont A:
Premiere Group B 5th
U&D Match 1 loser
U&D Match 4 loser
Amateur Division Winner #1
Amateur Division Winner #2
Cont B:
Premiere Group A 5th
U&D Match 2 loser
U&D Match 3 loser
Amateur Division Winner #3
Amateur Division Winner #4
Rinse and repeat!
If a team disbands in Premiere Division, award them last place in whatever group, then create a 5th Amateur Division spot for the Contender Division group that has the hole in it in the following season. (Perhaps a 4-man single elim between the runnerups from the four main Amateur division groups?)
If a team disbands in Contender Division, award them last place. Because they 'drop out of the competition' it all works out and there's no issues the following season.
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1184 Posts
On February 20 2013 13:14 MCXD wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 13:04 IGNProLeague wrote:On February 20 2013 12:30 MCXD wrote:On February 20 2013 12:02 Elite_ wrote:On February 20 2013 11:27 Bagration wrote:On February 20 2013 11:22 vthree wrote:On February 20 2013 11:04 Bagration wrote:
Not going to lie, seeing Liquid back in the Premier division after going 0-6 in matches over the past 2 seasons feels wrong to me. It reminds me of GSL 2011, when players like Ensnare held Code S spots all the way until the tournament format was finally reformed.
I think the IPTL format is starting to see some of the same issues that the GSL format had back in 2011. Well, I think it is more due to the lack of tier 1 teams. The 2011 format you mention only had 8 players (25%) in Code S falling to Up&Downs while IPTL has (50%). But if you look at the 4 teams from Premier and 4 from Contender FXO, Prime, TL, Karont3, NSHS, Acer, Complexity, Root. And if you had to pick top 4, which would you go with? TL actually beat NSHS which was probably the strongest in the Contender's division. I agree with you about the lack of Tier 1 teams. With oGs, Slayers, and TSL disbanding, the number of top level teams in this tournament has fallen. I personally wouldn't mind if IPTL would try to get teams like Azubu or Axiom to participate though (I certainly won't hold my breathe for Kespa teams). What I would like to actually see is maybe IPTL taking a page from the GSL book. Maybe the lowest performing team from the Premier division gets seeded into the Contender division, and has to play it out there as well. + Show Spoiler +I agree with the part about lowest team automatically being seeded into Contender division now that there's 10 teams. Maybe make the top team of the Contender division seeded into Premier next season too. It guarantees at least a slightly different group of teams each season... + Show Spoiler +Perhaps...
For each Premiere Division Group:
1st advances to R2 of Playoffs
2nd advances to R1 of Playoffs
3rd advances to R1 of Playoffs
4th drops to U&Ds
5th drops to Contender Division next season
Playoffs are then:
Group A 1st vs. (Group B 2nd vs. Group A 3rd)
Group B 1st vs. (Group A 2nd vs. Group B 3rd)
The top 4 are guaranteed to remain in premiere division
5th/6th drop to the U&Ds
Contender Division Groups:
1st advances to Premiere division next season
2nd advances to U&Ds
3rd advances to U&Ds
4th drops and must requalify
5th drops and must requalify
U&Ds are then:
Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd
Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd
Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd
Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd
Qualifiers are 4 single elimination brackets, resulting in 4 winners who advance to the Contender division.
Thus each season the Premiere groups could be:
[Premiere Group A]
Previous Season Premiere 1st
Previous Season Premiere 4th (team who lost to 2nd in the semi)
Previous Season Contender Group A 1st
Winner of an U&D "Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd"
Winner of an U&D "Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd"
[Premiere Group B]
Previous Season Premiere 2nd
Previous Season Premiere 3rd (team who lost to 1st in the semi)
Previous Season Contender Group B 1st
Winner of an U&D "Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd"
Winner of an U&D "Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd"
And for Contender:
[Contender Group A]
Previous Season Premiere Group B 5th (swapped A->B because cont->prem is A->A)
Loser of an U&D "Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd"
Loser of an U&D "Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd"
Qualifying Team #1
Qualifying Team #2
[Contender Group B]
Previous Season Premiere Group A 5th (swapped B->A because cont->prem is B->B)
Loser of an U&D "Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd"
Loser of an U&D "Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd"
Qualifying Team #3
Qualifying Team #4
Of course you can simplify it by making the playoffs in premiere division only involve 4 teams, but I think it's more fun if it's a 6-man single elimination. Plus, it accounts for the case where one group is weaker than the other, where as going straight to 4 doesn't as much. Thanks for writing this all out! This is along the lines of what we're thinking, though we prefer to play Premier and Contender simultaneously, as that creates a better narrative and scheduling for the season. Definitely gonna show this to the other IPL folks. It's very possible to play them out simultaneously. I just formatted them separately for clarity
Oh, I got confused with some one else's post that was more Code A style.
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On February 20 2013 13:24 IGNProLeague wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 13:14 MCXD wrote:On February 20 2013 13:04 IGNProLeague wrote:On February 20 2013 12:30 MCXD wrote:On February 20 2013 12:02 Elite_ wrote:On February 20 2013 11:27 Bagration wrote:On February 20 2013 11:22 vthree wrote:On February 20 2013 11:04 Bagration wrote:
Not going to lie, seeing Liquid back in the Premier division after going 0-6 in matches over the past 2 seasons feels wrong to me. It reminds me of GSL 2011, when players like Ensnare held Code S spots all the way until the tournament format was finally reformed.
I think the IPTL format is starting to see some of the same issues that the GSL format had back in 2011. Well, I think it is more due to the lack of tier 1 teams. The 2011 format you mention only had 8 players (25%) in Code S falling to Up&Downs while IPTL has (50%). But if you look at the 4 teams from Premier and 4 from Contender FXO, Prime, TL, Karont3, NSHS, Acer, Complexity, Root. And if you had to pick top 4, which would you go with? TL actually beat NSHS which was probably the strongest in the Contender's division. I agree with you about the lack of Tier 1 teams. With oGs, Slayers, and TSL disbanding, the number of top level teams in this tournament has fallen. I personally wouldn't mind if IPTL would try to get teams like Azubu or Axiom to participate though (I certainly won't hold my breathe for Kespa teams). What I would like to actually see is maybe IPTL taking a page from the GSL book. Maybe the lowest performing team from the Premier division gets seeded into the Contender division, and has to play it out there as well. + Show Spoiler +I agree with the part about lowest team automatically being seeded into Contender division now that there's 10 teams. Maybe make the top team of the Contender division seeded into Premier next season too. It guarantees at least a slightly different group of teams each season... + Show Spoiler +Perhaps...
For each Premiere Division Group:
1st advances to R2 of Playoffs
2nd advances to R1 of Playoffs
3rd advances to R1 of Playoffs
4th drops to U&Ds
5th drops to Contender Division next season
Playoffs are then:
Group A 1st vs. (Group B 2nd vs. Group A 3rd)
Group B 1st vs. (Group A 2nd vs. Group B 3rd)
The top 4 are guaranteed to remain in premiere division
5th/6th drop to the U&Ds
Contender Division Groups:
1st advances to Premiere division next season
2nd advances to U&Ds
3rd advances to U&Ds
4th drops and must requalify
5th drops and must requalify
U&Ds are then:
Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd
Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd
Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd
Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd
Qualifiers are 4 single elimination brackets, resulting in 4 winners who advance to the Contender division.
Thus each season the Premiere groups could be:
[Premiere Group A]
Previous Season Premiere 1st
Previous Season Premiere 4th (team who lost to 2nd in the semi)
Previous Season Contender Group A 1st
Winner of an U&D "Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd"
Winner of an U&D "Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd"
[Premiere Group B]
Previous Season Premiere 2nd
Previous Season Premiere 3rd (team who lost to 1st in the semi)
Previous Season Contender Group B 1st
Winner of an U&D "Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd"
Winner of an U&D "Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd"
And for Contender:
[Contender Group A]
Previous Season Premiere Group B 5th (swapped A->B because cont->prem is A->A)
Loser of an U&D "Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd"
Loser of an U&D "Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd"
Qualifying Team #1
Qualifying Team #2
[Contender Group B]
Previous Season Premiere Group A 5th (swapped B->A because cont->prem is B->B)
Loser of an U&D "Premiere Group 4th vs. Contender Group 2nd"
Loser of an U&D "Premiere Playoffs 5/6th vs. Contender Group 3rd"
Qualifying Team #3
Qualifying Team #4
Of course you can simplify it by making the playoffs in premiere division only involve 4 teams, but I think it's more fun if it's a 6-man single elimination. Plus, it accounts for the case where one group is weaker than the other, where as going straight to 4 doesn't as much. Thanks for writing this all out! This is along the lines of what we're thinking, though we prefer to play Premier and Contender simultaneously, as that creates a better narrative and scheduling for the season. Definitely gonna show this to the other IPL folks. It's very possible to play them out simultaneously. I just formatted them separately for clarity Oh, I got confused with some one else's post that was more Code A style.
Check my post above again, I edited it with a hypothetical schedule to demonstrate. But if there's no problems, then there's no problem, so no worries.
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EPT
