On December 16 2012 19:32 Aunvilgod wrote: Really does seem like EG is the boss in this Alliance. Why send out HuK/Thorzain when you have Zenio and Sea?
Could be that Huk and Thorzain are playing better or marketing.
On December 16 2012 19:32 Aunvilgod wrote: Really does seem like EG is the boss in this Alliance. Why send out HuK/Thorzain when you have Zenio and Sea?
Could be that Huk and Thorzain are playing better or marketing.
As someone else mentioned, imagine the comments they would receive if they didn't put out one or two foreigners per week. And, tbh, Zenio and Sea are not really better than Thorzain + Huk. At least not so much to make a strong argument for them.
On December 16 2012 19:32 Aunvilgod wrote: Really does seem like EG is the boss in this Alliance. Why send out HuK/Thorzain when you have Zenio and Sea?
Could be that Huk and Thorzain are playing better or marketing.
And, tbh, Zenio and Sea are not really better than Thorzain + Huk. At least not so much to make a strong argument for them.
Both open with fast expands on Tal'Darim Altar (cross spawns). Jaedong goes for a roach warren on two bases against Bbyong's reactored hellions into 3rd inbase CC. Jaedong surprised Bbyong by catching the first two hellions as they leave the base, and Bbyong looks kinda screwed right now. Jaedong busts past the choke between natural and main, and Bbyong has to pull SCVs. Jaedong does some pretty solid damage despite marauder reinforcements. Supply is 58-32 or something along those lines.
Bbyong follows up with a second factory, siege mode and an armory, while Jaedong continues into roach speed and +1 range upgrade. Jaedong builds a nydus and ten more roaches! Bbyong throws about ten hellions into Jaedong's natural, does minimal damage but manages to scout the nydus. Jaedong attacks with a bunch of roaches, taking out some tanks and forcing SCVs off the line again. Bbyong holds, but is still down in supply. Wave three arrives and forces a lift on the natural OC. Jaedong has a semi-contain on Bbyong and in the meantime has taken his 3rd. He backs off, and is up 102-75 supply as Bbyong relands his natural.
Jaedong takes his fourth and poops on Bbyong's 3rd. Jaedong goes for mutas as Bbyong finally gets his mech production started in earnest. Mutalisks hit the natural and bounce around Bbyong's bases, doing some nice damage to SCVs. In the meantime, Jaedong holds off several attempts at hellion runbys. He's up 175 to 101 supply.
Thors do manage to stave off further mutalisk damage. Bbyong has a nice defensive tank line but it's otherwise looking bad. Roach runby kills Bbyong's third as Jaedong takes a 5th base, researches pathogen glands and builds a hive. Hellions do minimal damage, and Bbyong tries to move out at ~130 supply. He does catch a bunch of free roaches, but Jaedong's greater spire is almost done. Cute tank placement over Jaedong's natural and 4th starve mining there, but roaches and zerglings clear them up before the bases sustain too much damage..
From there, brood lords clear up the army with ease, as Bbyong only has about 2 thors for anti-air. Jaedong begins the deathpush across the map and is doubling Bbyong's supply. 4 vikings aren't enough and Bbyong has to gg!
It was a fairly standard game, nothing special. Jaedong did play pretty well, and there wasn't much in terms of infestor abuse or turtle, so worth a watch I guess.
Wow the scouting pathways on this map are strange. Both play pretty standard, getting gas after rax/gate. TaeJa goes for a reaper expand into fast stim and ebay while Bong goes for 1-gate expo into robo gate gate. TaeJa's reaper does token damage before stalkers drive it off. Bong gets a warp prism and blink, while TaeJa techs up to starport. Suddenly a stimmed marine scouts the twilight and some gateways. After it's killed, Bong adds more gates and it seems like he's going for a 7gate blink allin with warp prism.
TaeJa moves out with a small force to clear pylons and scouts, but eventually returns to base in a defensive position. Bong can't seem to do very much with his (sizable) force and falls behind in upgrades, army and workers. He does end up teching to storm, but TaeJa's 2/2 is done against 0/0. While Bong gets a few lucky medivac snipes, TaeJa's advantage is too much and he steamrolls Bong after a number of engagements.
Not a particularly good game; TaeJa played well and got a bit lucky on his scout. Bong did what he could, but there is only so much you can do with a failed all-in.
HuK opens with a slightly faster gateway than herO (didn't catch supply), but doesn't scout in exchange. Seems like herO is using the HuK probe against him, haha, doing some mineral-line harrassment. HuK's first gas is faster, as is his core, but his second gas is a bit slower. HuK's going three-stalker rush into blink while herO goes for a robo gate gate.
herO builds up a pretty high immortal count, and HuK blinks up into herO's ramp. He takes some pretty serious damage in return for 2 immortals, and has to blink out against superior stalker number. herO starts blink as HuK starts a Nexus and his own robo. herO warps a few zealots into HuK's main with a lowground pylon, and gets a few kills before HuK clears it up.
HuK has to cancel his nexus and herO looks to apply pressure. I think herO is up in supply (63-57) but not sure. As HuK is contained for a short time, hero's expansion is halfway done. HuK eventually builds up a decent force and herO backs off, allowing HuK to start his nexus (about the same time herO's completes). Small skirmishes occur, and herO blinks stalkers into HuK's main. HuK again takes damage before driving them off, and is down 96-72 (?) supply. Apparently herO has killed 17 workers this game, and HuK has 19 probes only.
A strange base-trade situation occurs as HuK engages herO at his natural while 4 stalkers ravage HuK's main. HuK does decently at herO's base, though herO has a collosus out. herO bides his time to get out as many units as he can before engaging, pulling probes and HuK has to GG out.
A decent game overall, worth a watch I guess since it wasn't laser wars. Slight poor control from HuK though.
The two spawn in cross-positions. SonGDuri goes for hatch first into pool, while ThorZaIN goes 1rax CC into 2gas and starts working on the tumour. ThorZaIN gets a reaper and makes a 3rd CC. He goes for two starports. SonGDuri gets an ugly supply block at 52, which is about when he starts his lair.
Seems like our spoon terran is going 2port banshee after getting a viking. SonGDuri has double evo by this time though, and starst his spores straight away. ThorZaIN's single viking goes overlord hunting and they look to be on even supply, as SonGDuri gets supply blocked again at 70. SonGDuri's tech of choice seems to be muta, while ThorZaIN looks to be going marine-tank. ThorZaIN is leading 111-95 supply I think, SonGDuri's supply blocks don't help (although his upgrades are good).
ThorZaIN pushes out at about 130 supply and clears some creep on SonGDuri's side while dropping his third. Muta-ling-bane clears up the drop and both are even at about 170 supply. SonGDuri's play is kinda sloppy as he almost lets a medivac flying on top of his mutas. Some smart turrets stave off the mutalisk harrassment as ThorZaIN sets up his siege line in the middle of the map. SonGDuri's still on three base. ThorZaIN is a bit sloppy on muta defense and loses a few workers. A zergling runby with mutas does significant damage, so ThorZaIN decides to move in.
Some wasteful banelings from SonGDuri do manage to clear ThorZaIN's push as ThorZaIN finally stabilises at home. He's down 90 supply to 164 (?). Some cute micro near the end is not quite enough, and ThorZaIN has to GG out.
Pretty fun game I guess. ThorZaIN had a big lead but the smart runby took him out pretty much.
HerO goes for a nexus-first FFE (forge in main) against pool-hatch for Hydra. Hydra actually stays on two base for a while, making 30 lings against an incomplete wall-off (the force was in the main). HerO is pretty stuffed, as his gateway and a lot of probes get taken down
Not a good game, HerO played too greedy and paid the price.
JYP looks to go for nexus-first FFE (walling off this time) while EffOrt goes for pool first into hatch, getting speed off two base. EffOrt's 3rd is pylon-blocked, so he makes a lair off 2 base as JYP moves into stargate play. EffOrt is sneaky and makes a hidden spire and hydralisk den. JYP's phoenixes do decent damage and supply block EffOrt for a while, but 7 mutas are on the way. The two are pretty even on supply ~90.
JYP is getting blink and +1/+1, and some fancy phoenix micro takes out most of the mutalisks, preventing any damage. Investor pit, hydralisks and +1 range are on the way for EffOrt as JYP starts +2/+2, colossus bay and a 3rd base. JYP is researching investor glands and getting a fourth in the middle of Antiga. He brings out his overlords to make a creepy highway as JYP tries to harrass with a warp prims. Roaches warren, thermal lance and investors start building.
EffOrt engages with hydras outside of JYP's base but he gets out a colossus in time to defend. Both are pretty even at ~130 supply. Things stagnate for a bit as both continue to tech up. EffOrt is getting hive, +2 ranged and +1 carapace, as well as corruptors. JYP researches charge, gets a templar archive and is close to +3/+3.
An engagement happens near the middle, which JYP takes pretty decisively. Manner nexus is made as JYP rolls through EffOrt, all the while harassing the main with warp-prism zealot warpins. EffOrt is not quite dead yet and is still making investors. He doesn't invest quite enough and has to GG out!
Both open pretty standard, with gate-cycore-2gas-nexus for herO and rax-CC for TaeJa. TaeJa follows up with 2 more rax and his refineries, while herO adds 2 gates and a robo. TaeJa starts stim while herO assembles outside TaeJa's base with a sentry-heavy army. TaeJa has a bunker set up, but it's busted down. TaeJa does stabilise and get up another bunker.
herO gets double forge and twilight, and TaeJa's stim nears completion. herO adds three gates and researches +1/+1 and charge, while TaeJa gets his double ebay and combat shields upgrades rolling. herO adds a templar archives and starts +2/+2 while still on 2 base, and TaeJa starts a ghost academy and third CC. Storm and ghost energy are researched.
I missed some action, but herO busts up TaeJa's ramp with 2/2 and storms while TaeJa unsuccessfully tries to drop herO. TaeJa drops pretty heavily in supply, seems to stabilise and stay in the game, but he's down 141 to 94 supply. TaeJa has to restart 2/2 (ebays lost during the bust) and actually manages to take out herO's 4th. However, he gets caught out during the retreat, and deadja has to GG out.
Pretty good PvT, not a bad watch since TaeJa almost looked like he could come back.
what do you guys think of this section? i might do this for the days when we can't get a full LR running (I find it hard to manage multiple things and LR too). too biased/bad/suggestions/etc?
I like this. Its a solid recap, easy to read. Bit nicer detailed. If someone has the time obviously
Taeja played really well, JYP is clutch, and Jaedong is awesome. with Revival, Zenio, Puma, and Stephano, this team should be theoretically unbeatable. I still expect great things in the future, but they have to step it up.
I agree, I love huk and thorzain but even with the hero fail, we would've seen our first win had any of the four players mentioned been used instead of the two. But I guess this speaks more to EG-TL's goals. Are they here to win or are they here to pull in more sponsors?
You're seriously deluded if you think Zenio would've made a difference. 'Theoretically unbeatable'...not knowing most of the kespa players doesn't mean they're walkovers. I see a roster with some great players and some very mediocre ones, a small coaching staff and a team training environment (if there even is one) that's almost certainly not as productive and well-oiled as those of the kespa teams.
Excuses like they were just trying to draw sponsors is silly, winning draws sponsors.
Coverage draws sponsors, winning is just a side benefit. Foreigners garner more views and views are what sponsors are interested in. So from that point it is understandable to play foreigners.
On December 16 2012 19:54 rasers wrote: mb start playing good so they get real sponsors and not some drinks and mice.
apparently monster - not even their title sponsor - has a 1 million dollar sponsorship contract with them. it's pretty good i reckon. kespa teams are more "owned" and not "sponsored" by their title sponsors aren't they?
I have to say, english stream was dissapointing, I woke up at 5am, the stream kept going offline every 10 mins, and staying off for 5-10 mins. Usual youtube stream is now somehow not available in my country ever since proleague started, and I couldn't connect to the korean vlc stream. Basically, horrible experience.
Both open with fast expands on Tal'Darim Altar (cross spawns). Jaedong goes for a roach warren on two bases against Bbyong's reactored hellions into 3rd inbase CC. Jaedong surprised Bbyong by catching the first two hellions as they leave the base, and Bbyong looks kinda screwed right now. Jaedong busts past the choke between natural and main, and Bbyong has to pull SCVs. Jaedong does some pretty solid damage despite marauder reinforcements. Supply is 58-32 or something along those lines.
Bbyong follows up with a second factory, siege mode and an armory, while Jaedong continues into roach speed and +1 range upgrade. Jaedong builds a nydus and ten more roaches! Bbyong throws about ten hellions into Jaedong's natural, does minimal damage but manages to scout the nydus. Jaedong attacks with a bunch of roaches, taking out some tanks and forcing SCVs off the line again. Bbyong holds, but is still down in supply. Wave three arrives and forces a lift on the natural OC. Jaedong has a semi-contain on Bbyong and in the meantime has taken his 3rd. He backs off, and is up 102-75 supply as Bbyong relands his natural.
Jaedong takes his fourth and poops on Bbyong's 3rd. Jaedong goes for mutas as Bbyong finally gets his mech production started in earnest. Mutalisks hit the natural and bounce around Bbyong's bases, doing some nice damage to SCVs. In the meantime, Jaedong holds off several attempts at hellion runbys. He's up 175 to 101 supply.
Thors do manage to stave off further mutalisk damage. Bbyong has a nice defensive tank line but it's otherwise looking bad. Roach runby kills Bbyong's third as Jaedong takes a 5th base, researches pathogen glands and builds a hive. Hellions do minimal damage, and Bbyong tries to move out at ~130 supply. He does catch a bunch of free roaches, but Jaedong's greater spire is almost done. Cute tank placement over Jaedong's natural and 4th starve mining there, but roaches and zerglings clear them up before the bases sustain too much damage..
From there, brood lords clear up the army with ease, as Bbyong only has about 2 thors for anti-air. Jaedong begins the deathpush across the map and is doubling Bbyong's supply. 4 vikings aren't enough and Bbyong has to gg!
It was a fairly standard game, nothing special. Jaedong did play pretty well, and there wasn't much in terms of infestor abuse or turtle, so worth a watch I guess.
Wow the scouting pathways on this map are strange. Both play pretty standard, getting gas after rax/gate. TaeJa goes for a reaper expand into fast stim and ebay while Bong goes for 1-gate expo into robo gate gate. TaeJa's reaper does token damage before stalkers drive it off. Bong gets a warp prism and blink, while TaeJa techs up to starport. Suddenly a stimmed marine scouts the twilight and some gateways. After it's killed, Bong adds more gates and it seems like he's going for a 7gate blink allin with warp prism.
TaeJa moves out with a small force to clear pylons and scouts, but eventually returns to base in a defensive position. Bong can't seem to do very much with his (sizable) force and falls behind in upgrades, army and workers. He does end up teching to storm, but TaeJa's 2/2 is done against 0/0. While Bong gets a few lucky medivac snipes, TaeJa's advantage is too much and he steamrolls Bong after a number of engagements.
Not a particularly good game; TaeJa played well and got a bit lucky on his scout. Bong did what he could, but there is only so much you can do with a failed all-in.
HuK opens with a slightly faster gateway than herO (didn't catch supply), but doesn't scout in exchange. Seems like herO is using the HuK probe against him, haha, doing some mineral-line harrassment. HuK's first gas is faster, as is his core, but his second gas is a bit slower. HuK's going three-stalker rush into blink while herO goes for a robo gate gate.
herO builds up a pretty high immortal count, and HuK blinks up into herO's ramp. He takes some pretty serious damage in return for 2 immortals, and has to blink out against superior stalker number. herO starts blink as HuK starts a Nexus and his own robo. herO warps a few zealots into HuK's main with a lowground pylon, and gets a few kills before HuK clears it up.
HuK has to cancel his nexus and herO looks to apply pressure. I think herO is up in supply (63-57) but not sure. As HuK is contained for a short time, hero's expansion is halfway done. HuK eventually builds up a decent force and herO backs off, allowing HuK to start his nexus (about the same time herO's completes). Small skirmishes occur, and herO blinks stalkers into HuK's main. HuK again takes damage before driving them off, and is down 96-72 (?) supply. Apparently herO has killed 17 workers this game, and HuK has 19 probes only.
A strange base-trade situation occurs as HuK engages herO at his natural while 4 stalkers ravage HuK's main. HuK does decently at herO's base, though herO has a collosus out. herO bides his time to get out as many units as he can before engaging, pulling probes and HuK has to GG out.
A decent game overall, worth a watch I guess since it wasn't laser wars. Slight poor control from HuK though.
The two spawn in cross-positions. SonGDuri goes for hatch first into pool, while ThorZaIN goes 1rax CC into 2gas and starts working on the tumour. ThorZaIN gets a reaper and makes a 3rd CC. He goes for two starports. SonGDuri gets an ugly supply block at 52, which is about when he starts his lair.
Seems like our spoon terran is going 2port banshee after getting a viking. SonGDuri has double evo by this time though, and starst his spores straight away. ThorZaIN's single viking goes overlord hunting and they look to be on even supply, as SonGDuri gets supply blocked again at 70. SonGDuri's tech of choice seems to be muta, while ThorZaIN looks to be going marine-tank. ThorZaIN is leading 111-95 supply I think, SonGDuri's supply blocks don't help (although his upgrades are good).
ThorZaIN pushes out at about 130 supply and clears some creep on SonGDuri's side while dropping his third. Muta-ling-bane clears up the drop and both are even at about 170 supply. SonGDuri's play is kinda sloppy as he almost lets a medivac flying on top of his mutas. Some smart turrets stave off the mutalisk harrassment as ThorZaIN sets up his siege line in the middle of the map. SonGDuri's still on three base. ThorZaIN is a bit sloppy on muta defense and loses a few workers. A zergling runby with mutas does significant damage, so ThorZaIN decides to move in.
Some wasteful banelings from SonGDuri do manage to clear ThorZaIN's push as ThorZaIN finally stabilises at home. He's down 90 supply to 164 (?). Some cute micro near the end is not quite enough, and ThorZaIN has to GG out.
Pretty fun game I guess. ThorZaIN had a big lead but the smart runby took him out pretty much.
HerO goes for a nexus-first FFE (forge in main) against pool-hatch for Hydra. Hydra actually stays on two base for a while, making 30 lings against an incomplete wall-off (the force was in the main). HerO is pretty stuffed, as his gateway and a lot of probes get taken down
Not a good game, HerO played too greedy and paid the price.
JYP looks to go for nexus-first FFE (walling off this time) while EffOrt goes for pool first into hatch, getting speed off two base. EffOrt's 3rd is pylon-blocked, so he makes a lair off 2 base as JYP moves into stargate play. EffOrt is sneaky and makes a hidden spire and hydralisk den. JYP's phoenixes do decent damage and supply block EffOrt for a while, but 7 mutas are on the way. The two are pretty even on supply ~90.
JYP is getting blink and +1/+1, and some fancy phoenix micro takes out most of the mutalisks, preventing any damage. Investor pit, hydralisks and +1 range are on the way for EffOrt as JYP starts +2/+2, colossus bay and a 3rd base. JYP is researching investor glands and getting a fourth in the middle of Antiga. He brings out his overlords to make a creepy highway as JYP tries to harrass with a warp prims. Roaches warren, thermal lance and investors start building.
EffOrt engages with hydras outside of JYP's base but he gets out a colossus in time to defend. Both are pretty even at ~130 supply. Things stagnate for a bit as both continue to tech up. EffOrt is getting hive, +2 ranged and +1 carapace, as well as corruptors. JYP researches charge, gets a templar archive and is close to +3/+3.
An engagement happens near the middle, which JYP takes pretty decisively. Manner nexus is made as JYP rolls through EffOrt, all the while harassing the main with warp-prism zealot warpins. EffOrt is not quite dead yet and is still making investors. He doesn't invest quite enough and has to GG out!
Both open pretty standard, with gate-cycore-2gas-nexus for herO and rax-CC for TaeJa. TaeJa follows up with 2 more rax and his refineries, while herO adds 2 gates and a robo. TaeJa starts stim while herO assembles outside TaeJa's base with a sentry-heavy army. TaeJa has a bunker set up, but it's busted down. TaeJa does stabilise and get up another bunker.
herO gets double forge and twilight, and TaeJa's stim nears completion. herO adds three gates and researches +1/+1 and charge, while TaeJa gets his double ebay and combat shields upgrades rolling. herO adds a templar archives and starts +2/+2 while still on 2 base, and TaeJa starts a ghost academy and third CC. Storm and ghost energy are researched.
I missed some action, but herO busts up TaeJa's ramp with 2/2 and storms while TaeJa unsuccessfully tries to drop herO. TaeJa drops pretty heavily in supply, seems to stabilise and stay in the game, but he's down 141 to 94 supply. TaeJa has to restart 2/2 (ebays lost during the bust) and actually manages to take out herO's 4th. However, he gets caught out during the retreat, and deadja has to GG out.
Pretty good PvT, not a bad watch since TaeJa almost looked like he could come back.
what do you guys think of this section? i might do this for the days when we can't get a full LR running (I find it hard to manage multiple things and LR too). too biased/bad/suggestions/etc?
I like this. Its a solid recap, easy to read. Bit nicer detailed. If someone has the time obviously
On December 16 2012 19:54 rasers wrote: mb start playing good so they get real sponsors and not some drinks and mice.
apparently monster - not even their title sponsor - has a 1 million dollar sponsorship contract with them. it's pretty good i reckon. kespa teams are more "owned" and not "sponsored" by their title sponsors aren't they?
Yes, the teams are owned by the sponsor. Like, all the KT Rolster players are KT employees, but in their sport division obviously. Without the sponsor there is no team. I guess they are like franchises in American sport, but instead of owned by the city the team is owned by a major corporation?
On December 16 2012 19:54 rasers wrote: mb start playing good so they get real sponsors and not some drinks and mice.
apparently monster - not even their title sponsor - has a 1 million dollar sponsorship contract with them. it's pretty good i reckon. kespa teams are more "owned" and not "sponsored" by their title sponsors aren't they?
Pretty much their entire ("Kespa") scene is owned by the title sponsors - players, teams, leagues, everything. In a way it's very similar to how F1 works.
I honestly feel that company-owned teams is the best model from the competitive standpoint. If teams have to compromise their performance to appease and maintain the sponsors, their players have to be salesmen as well as athletes, and marketing sometimes has to take priority over competition, then we're not really talking about e-"sports".
I think Acer in their nature is quite similar to Kespa teams, and they're growing pretty steadily as a team.
On December 16 2012 19:54 rasers wrote: mb start playing good so they get real sponsors and not some drinks and mice.
apparently monster - not even their title sponsor - has a 1 million dollar sponsorship contract with them. it's pretty good i reckon. kespa teams are more "owned" and not "sponsored" by their title sponsors aren't they?
Yes, the teams are owned by the sponsor. Like, all the KT Rolster players are KT employees, but in their sport division obviously. Without the sponsor there is no team. I guess they are like franchises in American sport, but instead of owned by the city the team is owned by a major corporation?
American sports teams are not owned by cities, they are usually owned by individual rich people.
On December 16 2012 19:54 rasers wrote: mb start playing good so they get real sponsors and not some drinks and mice.
apparently monster - not even their title sponsor - has a 1 million dollar sponsorship contract with them. it's pretty good i reckon. kespa teams are more "owned" and not "sponsored" by their title sponsors aren't they?
Pretty much their entire ("Kespa") scene is owned by the title sponsors - players, teams, leagues, everything. In a way it's very similar to how F1 works.
I honestly feel that company-owned teams is the best model from the competitive standpoint. If teams have to compromise their performance to appease and maintain the sponsors, their players have to be salesmen as well as athletes, and marketing sometimes has to take priority over competition, then we're not really talking about e-"sports".
I think Acer in their nature is quite similar to Kespa teams, and they're growing pretty steadily as a team.
Not just "own".In Japan and Korea,sports team as a part of company itself,a sort of advertising department.Players are employees.
On December 16 2012 20:27 nkr wrote: how do results carry over from each of the stages? Is ending last in the table in round1 a huge blow to the season?
fret not, ending last in R1 is not a huge blow to the season.