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On November 18 2012 21:45 Chill Penguin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:43 vthree wrote:On November 18 2012 21:41 Chill Penguin wrote:On November 18 2012 21:23 Destructicon wrote:
I have no idea why you people are crying about the tournament format. The tournament did everything right regarding a world championship, you had regional qualifiers, continental qualifiers and finally the grand showdown.
If you are upset that foreigners did poorly in general, then there is no one to fucking blame but the foreigners themselves, don't blame the format, the best player of his region qualified, then the best players on the continent qualified to go to the grand final, then the best players in the world, the Koreans won from there, get a grip, deal with it.
I agree that IPL5 and Iron Squid 2 have much more sick lineups, but those are all heavy on Koreans, while that is all great, we need tournament that are that stacked, we also need grass roots tournaments like WCS to grow and expose local talent, to encourage growth that will potentially Challenger the Koreans. And you do need some local heroes for people to cheer for, just don't cry when your local hero gets stomped into the dirt by the much superior Koreans. Agree 100% People seem to forget that the player pool for this tournament was the entire world. The World Championship was just a culmination of all the regional and national qualifiers. The format is pretty spot on for what this event is meant to be. Ideally I'd love a 64 player World Championship (Dreamhack double group stage format) to allow for a greater spread and variety. But that's probably asking a bit much for all the money Blizzard would have to put in. As for changes I'd make to the current format; Take away a NA seed and give the Sweden national champ a direct seed. Take away the Taiwan seed (seems like this was done just for Sen) and create an extra Asian seed. Why should Sweden national champ get a direct seed? Because I feel the Swedish SC2 player base are deserving of having their own seed.
I assume you are using 'player skill level' as the criteria for seeds. But if you do that, shouldn't Korea (Or Asia) have more seeds?
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this was the bwc, like one of the biggest tournaments of the year? i just checked once during the finals, the viewership numbers were unbelievably low. im totally hyped for ipl5 and gsl code s s5, but this weekend was just meh. watched like 3 games.
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On November 18 2012 21:44 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:39 FakeDeath wrote:On November 18 2012 21:37 Jacmert wrote:On November 18 2012 21:30 Fuddudle wrote:
Think Rain deserves some credit here.. he may not have won, but he was solid, and his placements in basically all tournaments has proven he has a high level of consistency that despite losses, keeps him up there. At the end of WoL, the game is pretty much solved with no huge metagame innovations anymore. To catchup 2 years, and play at the top is phenomenal.
As for the player pool being very poor, I disagree. Sure there could have been other players that could beat PartinG and co, but they had their chance in Korea. They failed. If we really wanted to watch a korean duke fest, then we watch Code S right? For each of the best players of their respective race outside Korea, we can find like a list equally good if not better in Korea. So why not just have WCS as the grand finals? Cause the whole fascination of foreigners vs korea is what makes the grand finals better than each of the regional tournaments.
As I said before, I really enjoyed some of the surprising results in this tournament, like BabyKnight's 2-0 win over Rain, Stephano's 0-2 to Idra, Her0's 2-1 over Stephano. Because all these games had more on the line than just who gets through.
I agree with Fuddudle. And what I've come to realize is that the "best player(s)" category is somewhat volatile. Players take games and series off each other all the time. And especially over a matter of weeks or months, players who have looked unstoppable can look a lot more mortal again. In other words, it's often times more risky than one would think to bet on the outcome of any top-tier Starcraft match. The best player overall in WoL is MVP.Period. Seeing how HotS is released early next year 2012. No one is taking the throne away from MVP. strange name for a player, he has a good practice partner with DRG and co on MVP though
Or she.
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On November 18 2012 21:49 AlternativeEgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:44 opterown wrote:On November 18 2012 21:39 FakeDeath wrote:On November 18 2012 21:37 Jacmert wrote:On November 18 2012 21:30 Fuddudle wrote:
Think Rain deserves some credit here.. he may not have won, but he was solid, and his placements in basically all tournaments has proven he has a high level of consistency that despite losses, keeps him up there. At the end of WoL, the game is pretty much solved with no huge metagame innovations anymore. To catchup 2 years, and play at the top is phenomenal.
As for the player pool being very poor, I disagree. Sure there could have been other players that could beat PartinG and co, but they had their chance in Korea. They failed. If we really wanted to watch a korean duke fest, then we watch Code S right? For each of the best players of their respective race outside Korea, we can find like a list equally good if not better in Korea. So why not just have WCS as the grand finals? Cause the whole fascination of foreigners vs korea is what makes the grand finals better than each of the regional tournaments.
As I said before, I really enjoyed some of the surprising results in this tournament, like BabyKnight's 2-0 win over Rain, Stephano's 0-2 to Idra, Her0's 2-1 over Stephano. Because all these games had more on the line than just who gets through.
I agree with Fuddudle. And what I've come to realize is that the "best player(s)" category is somewhat volatile. Players take games and series off each other all the time. And especially over a matter of weeks or months, players who have looked unstoppable can look a lot more mortal again. In other words, it's often times more risky than one would think to bet on the outcome of any top-tier Starcraft match. The best player overall in WoL is MVP.Period. Seeing how HotS is released early next year 2012. No one is taking the throne away from MVP. strange name for a player, he has a good practice partner with DRG and co on MVP though Or she.
When will there be an MVPee?
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On November 18 2012 21:47 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:45 Chill Penguin wrote:On November 18 2012 21:43 vthree wrote:On November 18 2012 21:41 Chill Penguin wrote:On November 18 2012 21:23 Destructicon wrote:
I have no idea why you people are crying about the tournament format. The tournament did everything right regarding a world championship, you had regional qualifiers, continental qualifiers and finally the grand showdown.
If you are upset that foreigners did poorly in general, then there is no one to fucking blame but the foreigners themselves, don't blame the format, the best player of his region qualified, then the best players on the continent qualified to go to the grand final, then the best players in the world, the Koreans won from there, get a grip, deal with it.
I agree that IPL5 and Iron Squid 2 have much more sick lineups, but those are all heavy on Koreans, while that is all great, we need tournament that are that stacked, we also need grass roots tournaments like WCS to grow and expose local talent, to encourage growth that will potentially Challenger the Koreans. And you do need some local heroes for people to cheer for, just don't cry when your local hero gets stomped into the dirt by the much superior Koreans. Agree 100% People seem to forget that the player pool for this tournament was the entire world. The World Championship was just a culmination of all the regional and national qualifiers. The format is pretty spot on for what this event is meant to be. Ideally I'd love a 64 player World Championship (Dreamhack double group stage format) to allow for a greater spread and variety. But that's probably asking a bit much for all the money Blizzard would have to put in. As for changes I'd make to the current format; Take away a NA seed and give the Sweden national champ a direct seed. Take away the Taiwan seed (seems like this was done just for Sen) and create an extra Asian seed. Why should Sweden national champ get a direct seed? Because I feel the Swedish SC2 player base are deserving of having their own seed. I assume you are using 'player skill level' as the criteria for seeds. But if you do that, shouldn't Korea (Or Asia) have more seeds?
If we're going off skill, top 32 of WCS Korea get seeded to the world finals.
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I think there is a good argument to make that korea needs much more seeds next time. There wer too many players that got in due to the fact that hey were in a weak region or nation.. Socke, huk or comm didnt deserve their seeds while players like polt or miya, who would have been much better, did not get in because korea got only 7 maximal seeds
It should be 16 koreans at the least.
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On November 18 2012 21:48 eMGmoG wrote:
this was the bwc, like one of the biggest tournaments of the year? i just checked once during the finals, the viewership numbers were unbelievably low. im totally hyped for ipl5 and gsl code s s5, but this weekend was just meh. watched like 3 games.
This is due to time zone. You will have to have the Korea, China, Taiwan, SEA numbers to compare to other tournaments.
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On November 18 2012 21:47 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:45 Chill Penguin wrote:On November 18 2012 21:43 vthree wrote:On November 18 2012 21:41 Chill Penguin wrote:On November 18 2012 21:23 Destructicon wrote:
I have no idea why you people are crying about the tournament format. The tournament did everything right regarding a world championship, you had regional qualifiers, continental qualifiers and finally the grand showdown.
If you are upset that foreigners did poorly in general, then there is no one to fucking blame but the foreigners themselves, don't blame the format, the best player of his region qualified, then the best players on the continent qualified to go to the grand final, then the best players in the world, the Koreans won from there, get a grip, deal with it.
I agree that IPL5 and Iron Squid 2 have much more sick lineups, but those are all heavy on Koreans, while that is all great, we need tournament that are that stacked, we also need grass roots tournaments like WCS to grow and expose local talent, to encourage growth that will potentially Challenger the Koreans. And you do need some local heroes for people to cheer for, just don't cry when your local hero gets stomped into the dirt by the much superior Koreans. Agree 100% People seem to forget that the player pool for this tournament was the entire world. The World Championship was just a culmination of all the regional and national qualifiers. The format is pretty spot on for what this event is meant to be. Ideally I'd love a 64 player World Championship (Dreamhack double group stage format) to allow for a greater spread and variety. But that's probably asking a bit much for all the money Blizzard would have to put in. As for changes I'd make to the current format; Take away a NA seed and give the Sweden national champ a direct seed. Take away the Taiwan seed (seems like this was done just for Sen) and create an extra Asian seed. Why should Sweden national champ get a direct seed? Because I feel the Swedish SC2 player base are deserving of having their own seed. I assume you are using 'player skill level' as the criteria for seeds. But if you do that, shouldn't Korea (Or Asia) have more seeds?
Skill level is a criteria, not the criteria. I think giving Sweden a seed whilst taking away a NA seed gives a greater variety to the tournament, and rewards Sweden for being a good SC2 nation. I also did suggest turning the Taiwan seed into an Asian seed so yes, and extra Korean could potentially qualify.
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On November 18 2012 21:52 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:47 vthree wrote:On November 18 2012 21:45 Chill Penguin wrote:On November 18 2012 21:43 vthree wrote:On November 18 2012 21:41 Chill Penguin wrote:On November 18 2012 21:23 Destructicon wrote:
I have no idea why you people are crying about the tournament format. The tournament did everything right regarding a world championship, you had regional qualifiers, continental qualifiers and finally the grand showdown.
If you are upset that foreigners did poorly in general, then there is no one to fucking blame but the foreigners themselves, don't blame the format, the best player of his region qualified, then the best players on the continent qualified to go to the grand final, then the best players in the world, the Koreans won from there, get a grip, deal with it.
I agree that IPL5 and Iron Squid 2 have much more sick lineups, but those are all heavy on Koreans, while that is all great, we need tournament that are that stacked, we also need grass roots tournaments like WCS to grow and expose local talent, to encourage growth that will potentially Challenger the Koreans. And you do need some local heroes for people to cheer for, just don't cry when your local hero gets stomped into the dirt by the much superior Koreans. Agree 100% People seem to forget that the player pool for this tournament was the entire world. The World Championship was just a culmination of all the regional and national qualifiers. The format is pretty spot on for what this event is meant to be. Ideally I'd love a 64 player World Championship (Dreamhack double group stage format) to allow for a greater spread and variety. But that's probably asking a bit much for all the money Blizzard would have to put in. As for changes I'd make to the current format; Take away a NA seed and give the Sweden national champ a direct seed. Take away the Taiwan seed (seems like this was done just for Sen) and create an extra Asian seed. Why should Sweden national champ get a direct seed? Because I feel the Swedish SC2 player base are deserving of having their own seed. I assume you are using 'player skill level' as the criteria for seeds. But if you do that, shouldn't Korea (Or Asia) have more seeds? If we're going off skill, top 32 of WCS Korea get seeded to the world finals.
Yup that would be the ideal scenario indeed
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4713 Posts
Food for thought, during IdrA - Rain series, the viewership jumped to like 75k. Someone mentioned it was even higher during some other time, like 85k.
Considering the really bad time the tournament took place for most of us, (I stayed up nearly all night to see it) I say that's pretty damn good. It is a shame the viewership numbers for the finals dropped so much.
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United Kingdom12057 Posts
Oh damn the finals were done already? I thought the finals would be today.
Due to the odd timezone I didn't get to see a single game. T_T
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On November 18 2012 21:52 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:47 vthree wrote:On November 18 2012 21:45 Chill Penguin wrote:On November 18 2012 21:43 vthree wrote:On November 18 2012 21:41 Chill Penguin wrote:On November 18 2012 21:23 Destructicon wrote:
I have no idea why you people are crying about the tournament format. The tournament did everything right regarding a world championship, you had regional qualifiers, continental qualifiers and finally the grand showdown.
If you are upset that foreigners did poorly in general, then there is no one to fucking blame but the foreigners themselves, don't blame the format, the best player of his region qualified, then the best players on the continent qualified to go to the grand final, then the best players in the world, the Koreans won from there, get a grip, deal with it.
I agree that IPL5 and Iron Squid 2 have much more sick lineups, but those are all heavy on Koreans, while that is all great, we need tournament that are that stacked, we also need grass roots tournaments like WCS to grow and expose local talent, to encourage growth that will potentially Challenger the Koreans. And you do need some local heroes for people to cheer for, just don't cry when your local hero gets stomped into the dirt by the much superior Koreans. Agree 100% People seem to forget that the player pool for this tournament was the entire world. The World Championship was just a culmination of all the regional and national qualifiers. The format is pretty spot on for what this event is meant to be. Ideally I'd love a 64 player World Championship (Dreamhack double group stage format) to allow for a greater spread and variety. But that's probably asking a bit much for all the money Blizzard would have to put in. As for changes I'd make to the current format; Take away a NA seed and give the Sweden national champ a direct seed. Take away the Taiwan seed (seems like this was done just for Sen) and create an extra Asian seed. Why should Sweden national champ get a direct seed? Because I feel the Swedish SC2 player base are deserving of having their own seed. I assume you are using 'player skill level' as the criteria for seeds. But if you do that, shouldn't Korea (Or Asia) have more seeds? If we're going off skill, top 32 of WCS Korea get seeded to the world finals.
That is what I am trying to get at. If you give Sweden a direct seed due to having more top players. Then you need to give Korea much more seeds (like 25-28) and then it turns into GSL. Blizzard already told us how they decided the seeds (on game sales) and since they were consistent across the regions, I am ok with that.
You can't say EU deserves more seed than NA but then ignore that KR deserves more seeds than EU.
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On November 18 2012 21:53 Chill Penguin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:47 vthree wrote:On November 18 2012 21:45 Chill Penguin wrote:On November 18 2012 21:43 vthree wrote:On November 18 2012 21:41 Chill Penguin wrote:On November 18 2012 21:23 Destructicon wrote:
I have no idea why you people are crying about the tournament format. The tournament did everything right regarding a world championship, you had regional qualifiers, continental qualifiers and finally the grand showdown.
If you are upset that foreigners did poorly in general, then there is no one to fucking blame but the foreigners themselves, don't blame the format, the best player of his region qualified, then the best players on the continent qualified to go to the grand final, then the best players in the world, the Koreans won from there, get a grip, deal with it.
I agree that IPL5 and Iron Squid 2 have much more sick lineups, but those are all heavy on Koreans, while that is all great, we need tournament that are that stacked, we also need grass roots tournaments like WCS to grow and expose local talent, to encourage growth that will potentially Challenger the Koreans. And you do need some local heroes for people to cheer for, just don't cry when your local hero gets stomped into the dirt by the much superior Koreans. Agree 100% People seem to forget that the player pool for this tournament was the entire world. The World Championship was just a culmination of all the regional and national qualifiers. The format is pretty spot on for what this event is meant to be. Ideally I'd love a 64 player World Championship (Dreamhack double group stage format) to allow for a greater spread and variety. But that's probably asking a bit much for all the money Blizzard would have to put in. As for changes I'd make to the current format; Take away a NA seed and give the Sweden national champ a direct seed. Take away the Taiwan seed (seems like this was done just for Sen) and create an extra Asian seed. Why should Sweden national champ get a direct seed? Because I feel the Swedish SC2 player base are deserving of having their own seed. I assume you are using 'player skill level' as the criteria for seeds. But if you do that, shouldn't Korea (Or Asia) have more seeds? Skill level is a criteria, not the criteria. I think giving Sweden a seed whilst taking away a NA seed gives a greater variety to the tournament, and rewards Sweden for being a good SC2 nation. I also did suggest turning the Taiwan seed into an Asian seed so yes, and extra Korean could potentially qualify.
What about the French seed?
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On November 18 2012 21:56 Qikz wrote:
Oh damn the finals were done already? I thought the finals would be today.
Due to the odd timezone I didn't get to see a single game. T_T
It is today but due to time zone, it happened early in the morning for NA.
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On November 18 2012 21:48 eMGmoG wrote:
this was the bwc, like one of the biggest tournaments of the year? i just checked once during the finals, the viewership numbers were unbelievably low. im totally hyped for ipl5 and gsl code s s5, but this weekend was just meh. watched like 3 games.
Really man it is too early in EU to watch the games when it is an EU or NA tournament you have time to watch but BWC most of people will watch via VODs.
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On November 18 2012 21:06 Kitaen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:01 Ronin2011 wrote:
1th Protoss
2nd Protoss
3rd Protoss
Nerf Zerg.. they're so OP!
Let's hope Blizzard reconsider hearing bronze player voices... new account? have you been banned already for comments like this?
This is my opinion. If you don't like it, move to the next comment and ask for some T or P buff.
P.S. Great arguments you bring to the table.
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People asking for extra Korean seeds are missing the point that this tournament is designed (from the qualifiers up to the prize money) to encourage people from countries other than Korea to play SC2.
Whether you agree or not is a different thing. But that's the way it is.
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gz to Parting.
Tried to follow most of this tournament. Im sad to say i dont find the game very exciting anymore tho, hoping for HotS to make the matchups better.
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On November 18 2012 22:00 Ronin2011 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:06 Kitaen wrote:On November 18 2012 21:01 Ronin2011 wrote:
1th Protoss
2nd Protoss
3rd Protoss
Nerf Zerg.. they're so OP!
Let's hope Blizzard reconsider hearing bronze player voices... new account? have you been banned already for comments like this? This is my opinion. If you don't like it, move to the next comment and ask for some T or P buff. P.S. Great arguments you bring to the table.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments_Medalists/Race
On November 18 2012 22:01 Serek wrote:
People asking for extra Korean seeds are missing the point that this tournament is designed (from the qualifiers up to the prize money) to encourage people from countries other than Korea to play SC2.
Whether you agree or not is a different thing. But that's the way it is.
This.
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On November 18 2012 21:35 KimJongChill wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:33 Baum wrote:On November 18 2012 21:20 Surrealistic wrote:On November 18 2012 21:09 nAgeDitto wrote:
this kind of argument after every single tournament :'(
Maybe next year Blizzard will force EVERY single player in the world to play for regional/national qualifiers
Or maybe they should just sponsor a massive GSL season and give the prize money for WCS to the winner of that. Expand Code S to 64 players or something. I didn't care or feel disappointed by this tournament, because I wasn't hyped at all. It just feels wrong that such a huge prize pool was given for a tournament, where realistically, there was only 10 or so other players who were remotely on the level the winner was in. He loses in Code S, where everyone has a fair shot of beating him - but comes here with a far weaker player pool and wins substantially more than he would've won as Code S winner. The quality of Code S is so high because it is just 32 players and out of that group there aren't really more than 10 guys to pick as potential winners because the others aren't playing at their level consistently so following your argumentation you shouldn't be that interested in Code S either. cept bwc had like 80% foreigners~
Which were able to knock out Code S Koreans like HerO, Roro and Curious early.
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EPT
