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On November 18 2012 21:30 Waxangel wrote:
I can't tell if this was a good or bad showing for foreigners
I think it was a good showing, they won some games.
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On November 18 2012 21:30 Waxangel wrote:
I can't tell if this was a good or bad showing for foreigners
Bad, Sen didn't make 3rd place. How far the foreign hope has fallen...
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On November 18 2012 21:23 Destructicon wrote:
I have no idea why you people are crying about the tournament format. The tournament did everything right regarding a world championship, you had regional qualifiers, continental qualifiers and finally the grand showdown.
If you are upset that foreigners did poorly in general, then there is no one to fucking blame but the foreigners themselves, don't blame the format, the best player of his region qualified, then the best players on the continent qualified to go to the grand final, then the best players in the world, the Koreans won from there, get a grip, deal with it.
I agree that IPL5 and Iron Squid 2 have much more sick lineups, but those are all heavy on Koreans, while that is all great, we need tournament that are that stacked, we also need grass roots tournaments like WCS to grow and expose local talent, to encourage growth that will potentially Challenger the Koreans. And you do need some local heroes for people to cheer for, just don't cry when your local hero gets stomped into the dirt by the much superior Koreans.
People are upset cause they thought the gap was not that big. (like grubby fans got really served MLG/BWC) It would be awesome if foreigners would step up and train, but i dont see that happening.
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It was a good showing for Vortix and Suppy, going 2-3 with the champion and runner up, just write about that.
oh and sen, I guess. although he did get 0-6'd in his last two matches.
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On November 18 2012 21:20 Surrealistic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:09 nAgeDitto wrote:
this kind of argument after every single tournament :'(
Maybe next year Blizzard will force EVERY single player in the world to play for regional/national qualifiers
Or maybe they should just sponsor a massive GSL season and give the prize money for WCS to the winner of that. Expand Code S to 64 players or something. I didn't care or feel disappointed by this tournament, because I wasn't hyped at all. It just feels wrong that such a huge prize pool was given for a tournament, where realistically, there was only 10 or so other players who were remotely on the level the winner was in. He loses in Code S, where everyone has a fair shot of beating him - but comes here with a far weaker player pool and wins substantially more than he would've won as Code S winner.
The quality of Code S is so high because it is just 32 players and out of that group there aren't really more than 10 guys to pick as potential winners because the others aren't playing at their level consistently so following your argumentation you shouldn't be that interested in Code S either.
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On November 18 2012 21:33 Baum wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:20 Surrealistic wrote:On November 18 2012 21:09 nAgeDitto wrote:
this kind of argument after every single tournament :'(
Maybe next year Blizzard will force EVERY single player in the world to play for regional/national qualifiers
Or maybe they should just sponsor a massive GSL season and give the prize money for WCS to the winner of that. Expand Code S to 64 players or something. I didn't care or feel disappointed by this tournament, because I wasn't hyped at all. It just feels wrong that such a huge prize pool was given for a tournament, where realistically, there was only 10 or so other players who were remotely on the level the winner was in. He loses in Code S, where everyone has a fair shot of beating him - but comes here with a far weaker player pool and wins substantially more than he would've won as Code S winner. The quality of Code S is so high because it is just 32 players and out of that group there aren't really more than 10 guys to pick as potential winners because the others aren't playing at their level consistently so following your argumentation you shouldn't be that interested in Code S either.
cept bwc had like 80% foreigners~
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On November 18 2012 21:30 Fuddudle wrote:
Think Rain deserves some credit here.. he may not have won, but he was solid, and his placements in basically all tournaments has proven he has a high level of consistency that despite losses, keeps him up there. At the end of WoL, the game is pretty much solved with no huge metagame innovations anymore. To catchup 2 years, and play at the top is phenomenal.
As for the player pool being very poor, I disagree. Sure there could have been other players that could beat PartinG and co, but they had their chance in Korea. They failed. If we really wanted to watch a korean duke fest, then we watch Code S right? For each of the best players of their respective race outside Korea, we can find like a list equally good if not better in Korea. So why not just have WCS as the grand finals? Cause the whole fascination of foreigners vs korea is what makes the grand finals better than each of the regional tournaments.
As I said before, I really enjoyed some of the surprising results in this tournament, like BabyKnight's 2-0 win over Rain, Stephano's 0-2 to Idra, Her0's 2-1 over Stephano. Because all these games had more on the line than just who gets through.
I agree with Fuddudle. And what I've come to realize is that the "best player(s)" category is somewhat volatile. Players take games and series off each other all the time. And especially over a matter of weeks or months, players who have looked unstoppable can look a lot more mortal again.
In other words, it's often times more risky than one would think to bet on the outcome of any top-tier Starcraft match.
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Gz parting for winning!!!
Protoss World Champion = Zerg Imba
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On November 18 2012 21:21 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:19 THM wrote:On November 18 2012 20:49 ShAdZ_ZX wrote:On November 18 2012 20:42 Jehct wrote:On November 18 2012 20:39 Dodgin wrote:
Okay so in this tournament
Parting defeated
Illusion
Socke
Scarlett
Suppy
Sen
Creator
Only one Korean player and one Code A/B player.
Congrats on the easiest 100k of your life. ...because every other Code S/A/B korean was knocked out either earlier in the tournament or in the many qualifiers leading up to it Seriously, wtf? This was a lot harder to win, and required a lot more consistency, than any single Code S championship. He got third in WCS KR, second in WCS Asia, first here. That's fucking amazing. Trying to downplay the achievement is just messed up You're looking at it wrong. He deserves credit for winning those tournament individually and making it to the BWC. He didn't, however, do much to earn the top spot at this event though. Not down playing his efforts, I'm happy for him, but its not like he went from one the top protoss playersvto the best player in the world in 2 days. A tournament that want's to pretend its the highest achievement in the sport has to fix the qualifying. The player pool was very very poor and a terrible representation of the best players that the world has to offer. Completely agree here. Sadly this event had a very poor player pool, IPL5 will do a much better job at that. The problem is that all best players are in Korea. This is the best Blizzard can do. You can't really get a tournament with all the best players without it being an pure korean tournament.
They screwed up with the Euro seeding in my opinion. I'm a huk fangirl but it's silly that he got 10th at Canadian nationals and 9th in NA championship and still qualified. Most EU countries got to send 2-3 players to European nationals, and Europe only got 7 spots total. You're never going to get a perfect player pool but honestly Europe deserved more representation.
I'm just fine with the results though and wouldn't change a thing about how the event turned out minus the production errors. I'd say WCS was a success for Blizzard but that they need to fiddle with the format for next year.
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Step by step.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5qY3p.jpg)
PartinG <3 Absolutely deserved win!
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On November 18 2012 21:37 Jacmert wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:30 Fuddudle wrote:
Think Rain deserves some credit here.. he may not have won, but he was solid, and his placements in basically all tournaments has proven he has a high level of consistency that despite losses, keeps him up there. At the end of WoL, the game is pretty much solved with no huge metagame innovations anymore. To catchup 2 years, and play at the top is phenomenal.
As for the player pool being very poor, I disagree. Sure there could have been other players that could beat PartinG and co, but they had their chance in Korea. They failed. If we really wanted to watch a korean duke fest, then we watch Code S right? For each of the best players of their respective race outside Korea, we can find like a list equally good if not better in Korea. So why not just have WCS as the grand finals? Cause the whole fascination of foreigners vs korea is what makes the grand finals better than each of the regional tournaments.
As I said before, I really enjoyed some of the surprising results in this tournament, like BabyKnight's 2-0 win over Rain, Stephano's 0-2 to Idra, Her0's 2-1 over Stephano. Because all these games had more on the line than just who gets through.
I agree with Fuddudle. And what I've come to realize is that the "best player(s)" category is somewhat volatile. Players take games and series off each other all the time. And especially over a matter of weeks or months, players who have looked unstoppable can look a lot more mortal again. In other words, it's often times more risky than one would think to bet on the outcome of any top-tier Starcraft match.
The best player overall in WoL is MVP.Period.
Seeing how HotS is released early next year 2012.
No one is taking the throne away from MVP.
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On November 18 2012 21:23 KimJongChill wrote:
btw, anyone know who that chinese announcer girl was? just curious~
Her name is Mi Hayt Nud. She totally has naked pictures of herself like everywhere.
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On November 18 2012 21:23 Destructicon wrote:
I have no idea why you people are crying about the tournament format. The tournament did everything right regarding a world championship, you had regional qualifiers, continental qualifiers and finally the grand showdown.
If you are upset that foreigners did poorly in general, then there is no one to fucking blame but the foreigners themselves, don't blame the format, the best player of his region qualified, then the best players on the continent qualified to go to the grand final, then the best players in the world, the Koreans won from there, get a grip, deal with it.
I agree that IPL5 and Iron Squid 2 have much more sick lineups, but those are all heavy on Koreans, while that is all great, we need tournament that are that stacked, we also need grass roots tournaments like WCS to grow and expose local talent, to encourage growth that will potentially Challenger the Koreans. And you do need some local heroes for people to cheer for, just don't cry when your local hero gets stomped into the dirt by the much superior Koreans.
Agree 100%
People seem to forget that the player pool for this tournament was the entire world. The World Championship was just a culmination of all the regional and national qualifiers. The format is pretty spot on for what this event is meant to be.
Ideally I'd love a 64 player World Championship (Dreamhack double group stage format) to allow for a greater spread and variety. But that's probably asking a bit much for all the money Blizzard would have to put in.
As for changes I'd make to the current format;
Take away a NA seed and give the Sweden national champ a direct seed.
Take away the Taiwan seed (seems like this was done just for Sen) and create an extra Asian seed.
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On November 18 2012 21:39 ladyumbra wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:21 Wildmoon wrote:On November 18 2012 21:19 THM wrote:On November 18 2012 20:49 ShAdZ_ZX wrote:On November 18 2012 20:42 Jehct wrote:On November 18 2012 20:39 Dodgin wrote:
Okay so in this tournament
Parting defeated
Illusion
Socke
Scarlett
Suppy
Sen
Creator
Only one Korean player and one Code A/B player.
Congrats on the easiest 100k of your life. ...because every other Code S/A/B korean was knocked out either earlier in the tournament or in the many qualifiers leading up to it Seriously, wtf? This was a lot harder to win, and required a lot more consistency, than any single Code S championship. He got third in WCS KR, second in WCS Asia, first here. That's fucking amazing. Trying to downplay the achievement is just messed up You're looking at it wrong. He deserves credit for winning those tournament individually and making it to the BWC. He didn't, however, do much to earn the top spot at this event though. Not down playing his efforts, I'm happy for him, but its not like he went from one the top protoss playersvto the best player in the world in 2 days. A tournament that want's to pretend its the highest achievement in the sport has to fix the qualifying. The player pool was very very poor and a terrible representation of the best players that the world has to offer. Completely agree here. Sadly this event had a very poor player pool, IPL5 will do a much better job at that. The problem is that all best players are in Korea. This is the best Blizzard can do. You can't really get a tournament with all the best players without it being an pure korean tournament. They screwed up with the Euro seeding in my opinion. I'm a huk fangirl but it's silly that he got 10th at Canadian nationals and 9th in NA championship and still qualified. Most EU countries got to send 2-3 players to European nationals, and Europe only got 7 spots total. You're never going to get a perfect player pool but honestly Europe deserved more representation. I'm just fine with the results though and wouldn't change a thing about how the event turned out minus the production errors. I'd say WCS was a success for Blizzard but that they need to fiddle with the format for next year.
Well, you want to be consistent. Because EU didn't 'deserve' 7 seeds if Korea only got 7 as well. Yes, EU deserved more seeds than NA but KR also deserved more seeds than EU if you use that arguement.
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On November 18 2012 21:39 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:37 Jacmert wrote:On November 18 2012 21:30 Fuddudle wrote:
Think Rain deserves some credit here.. he may not have won, but he was solid, and his placements in basically all tournaments has proven he has a high level of consistency that despite losses, keeps him up there. At the end of WoL, the game is pretty much solved with no huge metagame innovations anymore. To catchup 2 years, and play at the top is phenomenal.
As for the player pool being very poor, I disagree. Sure there could have been other players that could beat PartinG and co, but they had their chance in Korea. They failed. If we really wanted to watch a korean duke fest, then we watch Code S right? For each of the best players of their respective race outside Korea, we can find like a list equally good if not better in Korea. So why not just have WCS as the grand finals? Cause the whole fascination of foreigners vs korea is what makes the grand finals better than each of the regional tournaments.
As I said before, I really enjoyed some of the surprising results in this tournament, like BabyKnight's 2-0 win over Rain, Stephano's 0-2 to Idra, Her0's 2-1 over Stephano. Because all these games had more on the line than just who gets through.
I agree with Fuddudle. And what I've come to realize is that the "best player(s)" category is somewhat volatile. Players take games and series off each other all the time. And especially over a matter of weeks or months, players who have looked unstoppable can look a lot more mortal again. In other words, it's often times more risky than one would think to bet on the outcome of any top-tier Starcraft match. The best player overall in WoL is MVP.Period. Seeing how HotS is released early next year 2012. No one is taking the throne away from MVP.
MVP is a team.
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On November 18 2012 21:41 Chill Penguin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:23 Destructicon wrote:
I have no idea why you people are crying about the tournament format. The tournament did everything right regarding a world championship, you had regional qualifiers, continental qualifiers and finally the grand showdown.
If you are upset that foreigners did poorly in general, then there is no one to fucking blame but the foreigners themselves, don't blame the format, the best player of his region qualified, then the best players on the continent qualified to go to the grand final, then the best players in the world, the Koreans won from there, get a grip, deal with it.
I agree that IPL5 and Iron Squid 2 have much more sick lineups, but those are all heavy on Koreans, while that is all great, we need tournament that are that stacked, we also need grass roots tournaments like WCS to grow and expose local talent, to encourage growth that will potentially Challenger the Koreans. And you do need some local heroes for people to cheer for, just don't cry when your local hero gets stomped into the dirt by the much superior Koreans. Agree 100% People seem to forget that the player pool for this tournament was the entire world. The World Championship was just a culmination of all the regional and national qualifiers. The format is pretty spot on for what this event is meant to be. Ideally I'd love a 64 player World Championship (Dreamhack double group stage format) to allow for a greater spread and variety. But that's probably asking a bit much for all the money Blizzard would have to put in. As for changes I'd make to the current format; Take away a NA seed and give the Sweden national champ a direct seed. Take away the Taiwan seed (seems like this was done just for Sen) and create an extra Asian seed.
Why should Sweden national champ get a direct seed?
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On November 18 2012 21:39 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:37 Jacmert wrote:On November 18 2012 21:30 Fuddudle wrote:
Think Rain deserves some credit here.. he may not have won, but he was solid, and his placements in basically all tournaments has proven he has a high level of consistency that despite losses, keeps him up there. At the end of WoL, the game is pretty much solved with no huge metagame innovations anymore. To catchup 2 years, and play at the top is phenomenal.
As for the player pool being very poor, I disagree. Sure there could have been other players that could beat PartinG and co, but they had their chance in Korea. They failed. If we really wanted to watch a korean duke fest, then we watch Code S right? For each of the best players of their respective race outside Korea, we can find like a list equally good if not better in Korea. So why not just have WCS as the grand finals? Cause the whole fascination of foreigners vs korea is what makes the grand finals better than each of the regional tournaments.
As I said before, I really enjoyed some of the surprising results in this tournament, like BabyKnight's 2-0 win over Rain, Stephano's 0-2 to Idra, Her0's 2-1 over Stephano. Because all these games had more on the line than just who gets through.
I agree with Fuddudle. And what I've come to realize is that the "best player(s)" category is somewhat volatile. Players take games and series off each other all the time. And especially over a matter of weeks or months, players who have looked unstoppable can look a lot more mortal again. In other words, it's often times more risky than one would think to bet on the outcome of any top-tier Starcraft match. The best player overall in WoL is MVP.Period. Seeing how HotS is released early next year 2012. No one is taking the throne away from MVP.
strange name for a player, he has a good practice partner with DRG and co on MVP though
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On November 18 2012 21:43 DiMano wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:39 FakeDeath wrote:On November 18 2012 21:37 Jacmert wrote:On November 18 2012 21:30 Fuddudle wrote:
Think Rain deserves some credit here.. he may not have won, but he was solid, and his placements in basically all tournaments has proven he has a high level of consistency that despite losses, keeps him up there. At the end of WoL, the game is pretty much solved with no huge metagame innovations anymore. To catchup 2 years, and play at the top is phenomenal.
As for the player pool being very poor, I disagree. Sure there could have been other players that could beat PartinG and co, but they had their chance in Korea. They failed. If we really wanted to watch a korean duke fest, then we watch Code S right? For each of the best players of their respective race outside Korea, we can find like a list equally good if not better in Korea. So why not just have WCS as the grand finals? Cause the whole fascination of foreigners vs korea is what makes the grand finals better than each of the regional tournaments.
As I said before, I really enjoyed some of the surprising results in this tournament, like BabyKnight's 2-0 win over Rain, Stephano's 0-2 to Idra, Her0's 2-1 over Stephano. Because all these games had more on the line than just who gets through.
I agree with Fuddudle. And what I've come to realize is that the "best player(s)" category is somewhat volatile. Players take games and series off each other all the time. And especially over a matter of weeks or months, players who have looked unstoppable can look a lot more mortal again. In other words, it's often times more risky than one would think to bet on the outcome of any top-tier Starcraft match. The best player overall in WoL is MVP.Period. Seeing how HotS is released early next year 2012. No one is taking the throne away from MVP. MVP is a team.
LG-Im MVP?
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On November 18 2012 21:43 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:41 Chill Penguin wrote:On November 18 2012 21:23 Destructicon wrote:
I have no idea why you people are crying about the tournament format. The tournament did everything right regarding a world championship, you had regional qualifiers, continental qualifiers and finally the grand showdown.
If you are upset that foreigners did poorly in general, then there is no one to fucking blame but the foreigners themselves, don't blame the format, the best player of his region qualified, then the best players on the continent qualified to go to the grand final, then the best players in the world, the Koreans won from there, get a grip, deal with it.
I agree that IPL5 and Iron Squid 2 have much more sick lineups, but those are all heavy on Koreans, while that is all great, we need tournament that are that stacked, we also need grass roots tournaments like WCS to grow and expose local talent, to encourage growth that will potentially Challenger the Koreans. And you do need some local heroes for people to cheer for, just don't cry when your local hero gets stomped into the dirt by the much superior Koreans. Agree 100% People seem to forget that the player pool for this tournament was the entire world. The World Championship was just a culmination of all the regional and national qualifiers. The format is pretty spot on for what this event is meant to be. Ideally I'd love a 64 player World Championship (Dreamhack double group stage format) to allow for a greater spread and variety. But that's probably asking a bit much for all the money Blizzard would have to put in. As for changes I'd make to the current format; Take away a NA seed and give the Sweden national champ a direct seed. Take away the Taiwan seed (seems like this was done just for Sen) and create an extra Asian seed. Why should Sweden national champ get a direct seed?
Because I feel the Swedish SC2 player base are deserving of having their own seed.
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On November 18 2012 21:45 JoeCool wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:43 DiMano wrote:On November 18 2012 21:39 FakeDeath wrote:On November 18 2012 21:37 Jacmert wrote:On November 18 2012 21:30 Fuddudle wrote:
Think Rain deserves some credit here.. he may not have won, but he was solid, and his placements in basically all tournaments has proven he has a high level of consistency that despite losses, keeps him up there. At the end of WoL, the game is pretty much solved with no huge metagame innovations anymore. To catchup 2 years, and play at the top is phenomenal.
As for the player pool being very poor, I disagree. Sure there could have been other players that could beat PartinG and co, but they had their chance in Korea. They failed. If we really wanted to watch a korean duke fest, then we watch Code S right? For each of the best players of their respective race outside Korea, we can find like a list equally good if not better in Korea. So why not just have WCS as the grand finals? Cause the whole fascination of foreigners vs korea is what makes the grand finals better than each of the regional tournaments.
As I said before, I really enjoyed some of the surprising results in this tournament, like BabyKnight's 2-0 win over Rain, Stephano's 0-2 to Idra, Her0's 2-1 over Stephano. Because all these games had more on the line than just who gets through.
I agree with Fuddudle. And what I've come to realize is that the "best player(s)" category is somewhat volatile. Players take games and series off each other all the time. And especially over a matter of weeks or months, players who have looked unstoppable can look a lot more mortal again. In other words, it's often times more risky than one would think to bet on the outcome of any top-tier Starcraft match. The best player overall in WoL is MVP.Period. Seeing how HotS is released early next year 2012. No one is taking the throne away from MVP. MVP is a team. LG-Im MVP?
It is Mvp. MVP is the team.
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EPT
