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On November 18 2012 21:08 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:04 opterown wrote:
some combination of IPL5 and GSL5 and Blizzard Cup should paint a clearer picture of the best player of 2012 I don't think there will be a clear picture of who is the best player of 2012. MVP has 2 GSL finals(won one and runner-up) and IEM. Leenock has 2 MLG finals( won one and runner-up in another). Life won GSL and MLG. Sun won WCS Asia and OSL. Creator TSL4 Champion( this is online though) and WCS Korea Champion.
I think DRG is player of the year, he won a GSL, got second in the OSL, semi finals of another GSL, first place in two MLG's, second place in two MLG's
hard to say 100% though
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You want a real World Champion? Look at the IPL5 lineup. The one that wins that will unquestionably remains as the king of 2012 in my books.
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this kind of argument after every single tournament :'(
Maybe next year Blizzard will force EVERY single player in the world to play for regional/national qualifiers
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On November 18 2012 21:01 Ronin2011 wrote:
1th Protoss
2nd Protoss
3rd Protoss
Nerf Zerg.. they're so OP!
Let's hope Blizzard reconsider hearing bronze player voices...
And to think all you had to do was look at the flags next to their names to understand the results. You could've avoided looking silly.
Anyway, Parting's win comes as no surprise. It's unfortunate that the entire tournament was undermined by the game's balance and metagame being the worst state we've seen since 2010. This could have been something great.
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On November 18 2012 21:04 Jehct wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 20:54 KimJongChill wrote:On November 18 2012 20:49 thepuppyassassin wrote:On November 18 2012 20:44 Dodgin wrote:On November 18 2012 20:42 Jehct wrote:On November 18 2012 20:39 Dodgin wrote:
Okay so in this tournament
Parting defeated
Illusion
Socke
Scarlett
Suppy
Sen
Creator
Only one Korean player and one Code A/B player.
Congrats on the easiest 100k of your life. ...because every other Code S/A/B korean was knocked out either earlier in the tournament or in the many qualifiers leading up to it Seriously, wtf? This was a lot harder to win, and required a lot more consistency, than any single Code S championship. He got third in WCS KR, second in WCS Asia, first here. That's fucking amazing. Trying to downplay the achievement is just messed up You're missing the point, I'm not trying to downplay his achievement or anything, he played really well and did great in WCS KR and WCS asia to get to this point but the players he had to beat to win this makes it the easiest 100k he will ever make in his life. No you are missing his point. You also have to count all the people he beat in the qualifiers, which worked toward his entry into the tournament. i think the issue most people have is that the main tournament itself was a handful of koreans against a bunch of fodder foreigners (with some surprising exceptions), while the most challenging part of the tournament was relatively obscure and just a bunch of bo3's. it also didn't help that it was almost all pvp. That's not what the tournament was though. It was the finals of a massive, continental spanning tournament where every top player in each country got an invite. Each region was represented approximately equally (which led to ridiculously hard qualifiers), and those representatives then duked it out to determine who the best in the world (right then) was. It's literally how every 'world championship' style tournament functions. If you want to watch the best players in Korea play games with weeks of preparation, you watch the GSL. If you want to watch a world championship, you watch WCS. In simple probability stakes, your odds of winning a GSL are a hell of a lot higher. General strength, endurance and consistency are rewarded 10x more than preparation, and single elim to the finish means if you fuck up once, you're done. I don't really see how you can say one day of Code S is more conclusive than what was basically four tournaments (qualifiers, WCS Korea, WCS Asia, WCS finals). The fu?
1 day of Code S? lol the fu? This season is taking a whole month, and this one is being rushed
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On November 18 2012 21:05 opterown wrote:
creator is 15th in earnings after all, not so bad.
right there with aLive, lol..
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On November 18 2012 20:56 teamamerica wrote:
Am I the only one who feels like this doesn't actually crown the 'world champion' the way that TI2 did?
I'm feeling this way because a lot of the really good Koreans, namely the Korean Terrans, didn't qualify. Among the multitude of tournaments, I think WCS Korea feel by the wayside for some players. MVP and MC forfeited their matches in the losers bracket to attend IEM Cologne as one example, and who knows how players used practiced between this and GSL.
Sure Parting is one of the best in Korea, but no one could objectively say he's the best player in Korea. He couldn't even make it out of his Ro16 GSL group - and now he's the best in the world?
My distaste of this tournament comes from the fact the tournament effectively affirmative actions in a ton of players, when if it were really just a tournament of the best players in the world determined by people playing each other it would be much more Korean biased. An actual world champion, would, in my opinion, be the best players competing against the best. I don't know the solution to this and maybe I'm just looking at this the wrong way but just seeing if anyone else feels the same way?
Everyone in it was good definitely, Suppy almost beat Parting and tons of upsets, but that's an 'any given Sunday' type of thing to me - performance in one tournament can fluctuate. What my problem is in determining how they got there - it doesn't gather the best players in the world and then put them into a tournament to see whose the best on that day, not this.
Anyway, dat check :O
I don't think your can compare to TI2 because iG ended up winning and they have been pretty dominate in the Chinese scene even before TI2. So winning TI2 only re-affirmed their status. Let say if Orange or even DK had won, I don't think they would been called the best in the world even after TI2.
With sports where you have tournaments all year around and different players, you don't really get a definitive best player in the world like you do in sports with a regular season and then playoffs. This is true for golf as well, the player that won the season end championship is not necessary the number 1 player in the world. Ideally, we should have a ranking system which gives players points for winning and those points decay with time (like the GSL rankings but with all the other big tournaments).
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United States33705 Posts
On November 18 2012 21:08 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:04 opterown wrote:
some combination of IPL5 and GSL5 and Blizzard Cup should paint a clearer picture of the best player of 2012 I don't think there will be a clear picture of who is the best player of 2012. MVP has 2 GSL finals(won one and runner-up) and IEM. Leenock has 2 MLG finals( won one and runner-up in another). Life won GSL and MLG. Sun won WCS Asia and OSL. Creator TSL4 Champion( this is online though) and WCS Korea Champion.
It's MVP, DRG, and MAYBE Life if you take all results up to now into consideration.
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Canada16217 Posts
On November 18 2012 21:06 LimitSEA wrote:
Knock the tournament all you want, I guess. Blizzard actually tried something to help eSports a little, and though they didn't do it perfectly, I still really enjoyed the tournament. Some quality games. The only real disappointment for me was a lack of korean Terrans.
Thanks for a fun tournament Blizzard. Really got to see the community rally around one event again, was great to see. ^^
next year should be better, i'm excited already because i think we'll see more than 4 terrans this time :O
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anyway, once again, congrats to Parting! the finals might had been lackluster but he beat allot of good players to get to the finals.
Well done Parting, well Played!
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On November 18 2012 21:07 thepuppyassassin wrote: you could tell Artosis was thinking "woah settle down there... let's not get crazy"
I bet Artosis is often wondering WTF Tasteless is talking about...
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On November 18 2012 21:01 Ronin2011 wrote:
1th Protoss
2nd Protoss
3rd Protoss
Nerf Zerg.. they're so OP!
Let's hope Blizzard reconsider hearing bronze player voices...
They revoked raven buff based on MVP beating nerchio. I can definetly see them revoking infestors nerf based on TOP 3 Protoss players beating Tier 2 Zergs
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On November 18 2012 21:05 Weavel wrote:
Overall this tounament was a massive disappointment. Expected so much but got so little. Thankfully Dreamhack winter and IPL 5 can show how great tournament is made.
Don't forget the HSC right before Christmas. 
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On November 18 2012 21:04 Lunchador wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 20:57 S_SienZ wrote:On November 18 2012 20:54 nonsequitur wrote:
Yeah, all this bitching about Parting not deserving of the trophy is really inane. Do you feel Barcelona don't deserve to win the Champions League because they didn't play against Real Madrid or any of the other top clubs? Will you only be satisfied if the champion beats every single pro player? If so, why even watch tournaments then? No one is saying he doesn't deserve the trophy. We're saying he's not "THE BEST IN TEH WORLD" So what do you get for proving with your extensive amounts of "evidence and facts" that Parting isn't the best in the world, and that he does not deserve to win the WCS? And why should I give a @#$% if you are right or not? If Flash was bonjwa in BW, why couldn't even he get more than 3 OSLs? To me, Parting today is the "best player in the world". That title may or may not disappear down the line quickly, and life just goes on. That's just how things work out.
Calm down we're just voicing our displeasure at the structure of this tournament, specifically how the players in the tournament were selected. Take college football - the number 1 ranked team just lost to an unranked team. But because of how the (broken) BCS playoff system works, that unranked team is getting qualified for the national championship. There's point of the playoff system is to select the best teams and pit them against each other, and you'd be hard pressed to say that out of the players who could have qualified, the tournament structure selected for the best players in the WORLD, which is what you think a WORLD championship would select?
There's that and as someone else pointed out, the time gap, but that's less of an issue for me.
What do you get for your post? Same shit I got for mine bro.
edit:
Also, because of the fragmentation of sc2 tournaments (overlapping) and the (relatively) small prizepool, I don't know if you can really crown the best player in the world in this tournament. Sure 100k is a lot more then another tourny but it's only ~2.4 times a GSL championship (and open seasons were far more too)? That's not worth the same amount that winning TI2 would be - it's prizepool is massively larger than anything else.
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On November 18 2012 21:07 KimJongChill wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:00 Mirrikh wrote:
Easy road, except all those code S top tier koreans that should have been here to make it a tough road didn't make it.
Parting has been consistently good all year long (albeit never considered THE top player) and that's what makes you the winner of such a lengthy and prestigious tournament.
i guess what makes me uneasy is that the real tournament (kr qualifier) was played in august and sc2 shifts so quickly that parting winning is not really relevant to the current state of the game (leenock playing better, life as gsl champ, etc) if you also consider how mvp and mc didn't even bother playing through their loser bracket matches, the kr qualifier itself had very poor representation of the highest level of skill, except for perhaps protoss, and that was reflect in how pvp dominated this thing was. if there's one thing we can say, it's that parting has the best pvp in the world.
No one has the best PvP.
Not even Sun.
Not even Oz.
Not even Creator.
Not even Parting.
Not even Squirtle.
Statistically speaking, you can have the " best " PvP.
But like what many pros(Creator,Sun,etc), PvP is so highly build dependent that it makes it a coin-flippy match-up.
That;s why even the " best " PvPers will eventually drop games.
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On November 18 2012 21:09 nAgeDitto wrote:
this kind of argument after every single tournament :'(
Maybe next year Blizzard will force EVERY single player in the world to play for regional/national qualifiers
The problem with really stretched out formats is that players peak and slump inevitably. So it kinda boils down to you slumping at the right moment when you can afford to. GSL or even OSL has the length just right imo. WCS was too long for a non-league point based tournament.
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Not saying the qualification process is amazing or fool-proof, but some of us actually like seeing players from around the world playing. You can enjoy Starcraft matches even if they do not have the top8 koreans. Maybe they need to weight the different qualifiers a bit differently, but it's fun to see people from all around the world - a bit like the Olympics. I know the GSL has the overall best quality of players, but it is not even near being the most entertaining tournament.
What was actually bad about this tournament was the downtime (WoL cinematics, seriously?) and the overlapping of games. It felt like I barely saw anything. It felt like the tournament wasn't even aimed at the people watching on streams. It also seemed that having it in China was a bit problematic, but I guess they felt compelled to do it there due to WoW and Mists of Pandaria.
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On November 18 2012 21:07 Desertfaux wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 20:54 NightOfTheDead wrote:On November 18 2012 20:53 Desertfaux wrote:Wow, I managed to arrive home and start up the stream literally 1 minute before it shut down, then I looked at the brackets, it was over. Even worse, it was over in the quarterfinals ever since hero lost, nothing for me to enjoy after that point. I'll be checking the vods for the Duran brothers and that will make a total of 8 games I will have caught of this tournament. I hope you people enjoyed it at least! Hope the next one will be more for my timezone and have more people I want to root for. Check Rains PvZs vs Killer and Sen. Those were some really amazing stomps. Creator vs Rain was also pretty good. PvZ hahahah no thanks. I only care enough for Terran matchups and Team Liquid players to look back for. I'll let you folk enjoy PvZ while I do my own thing, thank you for the PvP though, those can be funny and I'll check it out. 250k tournament, 8 games and a PvP....
then your just wasting your time, some of the PvZs and PvPs were absolutely beautiful and a gem amongst pebbles, also idra vs stephano was great along with titan vs curious
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On November 18 2012 21:09 Meggiroth wrote:
You want a real World Champion? Look at the IPL5 lineup. The one that wins that will unquestionably remains as the king of 2012 in my books.
Upsets happen tho. Let's say someone good like Sniper won it, would he be king of 2012? A lot of players can win IPL5 if they get on a roll.
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On November 18 2012 21:08 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 21:04 opterown wrote:
some combination of IPL5 and GSL5 and Blizzard Cup should paint a clearer picture of the best player of 2012 I don't think there will be a clear picture of who is the best player of 2012. MVP has 2 GSL finals(won one and runner-up) and IEM. Leenock has 2 MLG finals( won one and runner-up in another). Life won GSL and MLG. Sun won WCS Asia and OSL. Creator TSL4 Champion( this is online though) and WCS Korea Champion.
MKP won 2 MLG's aswell
DRG won a GSL and had some other good results aswell
yeah there won't be a "best" player in 2012, many players had some very decent results, but nobody dominating like in 2011
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EPT
