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Good lord, just checked the standings and wtf wow.
The best player in NA is Huk at 13-25, 34.21%...
Best in EU is Naniwa at 19-17, 52.77%............ then it's Grubby at 16-20 44.44%...
Then the best player in freaking KR sc2 is mc at 18-18, 50%... wtf T_ T he's doing as well as the worst pl player, Jaehoon, who also happens to be at 50%.... not sure whether the stats include today's but all in all ;_; MC T__T
Maybe the PL players will end up displacing most, if not all, GSL players  though it does look for sure like the balance of powers might be shifted somewhat among the kespa players and all that.
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On October 13 2012 14:08 Aerisky wrote:Good lord, just checked the standings and wtf wow. The best player in NA is Huk at 13-25, 34.21%... Best in EU is Naniwa at 19-17, 52.77%............ then it's Grubby at 16-20 44.44%... Then the best player in freaking KR sc2 is mc at 18-18, 50%... wtf T_ T he's doing as well as the worst pl player, Jaehoon, who also happens to be at 50%.... not sure whether the stats include today's but all in all ;_; MC T__T Maybe the PL players will end up displacing most, if not all, GSL players though it does look for sure like the balance of powers might be shifted somewhat among the kespa players and all that.
No offense, but you clearly dont know how to make a compare.
This tournament is divided into 2 group, the KeSP player only played with the other 24 NA EU and GSL player, they dont played each other. While the NA EU and GSL player only played with the 24 KeSP players.
So Naniwa's 19-17 at least means he is better than half of the KeSP player. MC's 18-18 means he is as good as half of the KeSP player. Definitely not as what you concluded that MC is worst is Jaehoon.
If you put Rain in the NA EU part, his record won't be 31-5, but most likely 25-10 sth, simply becoz this half group is much harder. On the other hand, if you put MC in the KeSP part, his record will most likely be 22-12 sth or even better since he will only need to play all the NA player.
I hope most of you will understand the simple fact that this MLG players' results are not as bad as it looks. It just means KeSP as a whole is better than NA EU, but hard to judge the level of individual player
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+ Show Spoiler +On October 13 2012 14:30 Baroninthetree wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 14:08 Aerisky wrote:Good lord, just checked the standings and wtf wow. The best player in NA is Huk at 13-25, 34.21%... Best in EU is Naniwa at 19-17, 52.77%............ then it's Grubby at 16-20 44.44%... Then the best player in freaking KR sc2 is mc at 18-18, 50%... wtf T_ T he's doing as well as the worst pl player, Jaehoon, who also happens to be at 50%.... not sure whether the stats include today's but all in all ;_; MC T__T Maybe the PL players will end up displacing most, if not all, GSL players though it does look for sure like the balance of powers might be shifted somewhat among the kespa players and all that. No offense, but you clearly dont know how to make a compare. This tournament is divided into 2 group, the KeSP player only played with the other 12 NA EU and GSL player, they dont played each other. While the NA EU and GSL player only played with the 12 KeSP players. So Naniwa's 19-17 at least means he is better than half of the KeSP player. MC's 18-18 means he is as good as half of the KeSP player. Definitely not as what you concluded that MC is worst is Jaehoon. If you put Rain in the NA EU part, his record won't be 31-5, but most likely 25-10 sth, simply becoz this half group is much harder. On the other hand, if you put MC in the KeSP part, his record will most likely be 22-12 sth or even better since he will only need to play all the NA player. I hope most of you will understand the simple fact that this MLG players' results are not as bad as it looks. It just means KeSP as a whole is better than NA EU, but hard to judge the level of individual player
Also note, as I said in my last post, that there have now been 32 set forfeits (or 64 game forfeits). All were forfeited by the non-KeSPA side, meaning that the KeSPA standings now include 64 walkover wins.
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Yes, but the great majority of those forfeits were by IdrA, Sheth, and Ret.
It doesn't really explain why most GSL Koreans have negative records.
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MC having a 50% record against the average Kespa player is quite significant. He should be at the same level or slightly better than the best Kespa players. It's hard to say because of the format but you'd expect something close to 60-65% performance at least.
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On October 13 2012 14:49 ThePrince wrote:
Yes, but the great majority of those forfeits were by IdrA, Sheth, and Ret.
It doesn't really explain why most GSL Koreans have negative records.
i already explained actually.
Player are divided into half, KeSP and others.
The negative results simply means KeSP as a whole is better than NA/EU/GSL.
If put Naniwa and MC in the KeSP part, their reuslts will be much better, meanwhile if you put jaedoon in the NA part, his results will most likely be negative since he will have to play all the other KeSP player.
As for GSL player. The GSL players in MLG are not the best while KeSP send all their best.
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On October 13 2012 14:30 Baroninthetree wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 14:08 Aerisky wrote:Good lord, just checked the standings and wtf wow. The best player in NA is Huk at 13-25, 34.21%... Best in EU is Naniwa at 19-17, 52.77%............ then it's Grubby at 16-20 44.44%... Then the best player in freaking KR sc2 is mc at 18-18, 50%... wtf T_ T he's doing as well as the worst pl player, Jaehoon, who also happens to be at 50%.... not sure whether the stats include today's but all in all ;_; MC T__T Maybe the PL players will end up displacing most, if not all, GSL players though it does look for sure like the balance of powers might be shifted somewhat among the kespa players and all that. No offense, but you clearly dont know how to make a compare. This tournament is divided into 2 group, the KeSP player only played with the other 12 NA EU and GSL player, they dont played each other. While the NA EU and GSL player only played with the 12 KeSP players. So Naniwa's 19-17 at least means he is better than half of the KeSP player. MC's 18-18 means he is as good as half of the KeSP player. Definitely not as what you concluded that MC is worst is Jaehoon. If you put Rain in the NA EU part, his record won't be 31-5, but most likely 25-10 sth, simply becoz this half group is much harder. On the other hand, if you put MC in the KeSP part, his record will most likely be 22-12 sth or even better since he will only need to play all the NA player. I hope most of you will understand the simple fact that this MLG players' results are not as bad as it looks. It just means KeSP as a whole is better than NA EU, but hard to judge the level of individual player
Ohhh I gotcha, I should have known that too haha, thanks. No excuses since you're right, it's NA/EU/KR all versus Kespa. I guess the stat to watch for is that it seems KR players aren't doing that great against Kespa players, then. That makes a ton more sense though lol thanks.
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On October 13 2012 15:12 Aerisky wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 14:30 Baroninthetree wrote:On October 13 2012 14:08 Aerisky wrote:Good lord, just checked the standings and wtf wow. The best player in NA is Huk at 13-25, 34.21%... Best in EU is Naniwa at 19-17, 52.77%............ then it's Grubby at 16-20 44.44%... Then the best player in freaking KR sc2 is mc at 18-18, 50%... wtf T_ T he's doing as well as the worst pl player, Jaehoon, who also happens to be at 50%.... not sure whether the stats include today's but all in all ;_; MC T__T Maybe the PL players will end up displacing most, if not all, GSL players though it does look for sure like the balance of powers might be shifted somewhat among the kespa players and all that. No offense, but you clearly dont know how to make a compare. This tournament is divided into 2 group, the KeSP player only played with the other 12 NA EU and GSL player, they dont played each other. While the NA EU and GSL player only played with the 12 KeSP players. So Naniwa's 19-17 at least means he is better than half of the KeSP player. MC's 18-18 means he is as good as half of the KeSP player. Definitely not as what you concluded that MC is worst is Jaehoon. If you put Rain in the NA EU part, his record won't be 31-5, but most likely 25-10 sth, simply becoz this half group is much harder. On the other hand, if you put MC in the KeSP part, his record will most likely be 22-12 sth or even better since he will only need to play all the NA player. I hope most of you will understand the simple fact that this MLG players' results are not as bad as it looks. It just means KeSP as a whole is better than NA EU, but hard to judge the level of individual player Ohhh I gotcha, I should have known that too haha, thanks. No excuses since you're right, it's NA/EU/KR all versus Kespa. I guess the stat to watch for is that it seems KR players aren't doing that great against Kespa players, then. That makes a ton more sense though lol thanks.
haha, i'm really glad ppl are getting this. It's really not that bad. I even use "find password" to get this TL account to reply this since i usually just watch ppl discussing. Sry for the attitude btw.
Anyway, NA is worse than KeSP, but 13-23 is decent enough against KeSP's best. And Naniwa's positive results are just awesome
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What I AM saying is that if you only look at the GSL Korean stats, you can see that the GSL Koreans are losing to the Kespa players much more than they are winning.
In other words, if you ignore NA and EU, it is still true that Kespa > GSL Koreans by a significant margin. And the GSL Koreans are not bad players. MC and Alive can easily be considered top tier, and Puma and Oz are not bad either. So... regardless of your EU/NA argument, there has been a shift in winning tendency from GSL to Kespa.
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Code A on Thurs. says its all. It was 4-0 in matches Kespa vs esf and 8-0 in games (all 2-0 sweeps)!
Victims include Supernova, Bomber, and Shine.
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Well the forfeits shown at http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/competitions/52#event_128_results are embarrassing from supposedly "pro" gamers in a PPV event (a few here and there might be understandable), notice there has not been 1 KESPA forfeit based on that list.
So I bring you the forfeiting leaderboard (each forfeit is a 2 game set):
8 Sheth
7 Idra
7 Ret
3 Socke
2 MC
2 Select
2 Naniwa
1 Major
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I guess for discussing GSL vs Kespa, only the MC statistic is relevant.
There is no need to discuss EU vs Kespa or NA vs Kespa, since we already know which one is better.
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On October 13 2012 15:04 hypercube wrote:
MC having a 50% record against the average Kespa player is quite significant. He should be at the same level or slightly better than the best Kespa players. It's hard to say because of the format but you'd expect something close to 60-65% performance at least.
MC is at 56% if you dont count the forfeits。 His overall win rate in Korea in TLPD is 59 % so the difference is very small。
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On October 13 2012 16:25 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 15:04 hypercube wrote:
MC having a 50% record against the average Kespa player is quite significant. He should be at the same level or slightly better than the best Kespa players. It's hard to say because of the format but you'd expect something close to 60-65% performance at least. MC is at 56% if you dont count the forfeits。 His overall win rate in Korea in TLPD is 59 % so the difference is very small。
What about Alive, Puma, Alicia, Crank, and Oz. Are you telling me that all of their Korean win rates are in the negatives? Hehe.
I still think that now Kespa is a bit better than GSL. Maybe not completely dominant, but they have a slight edge in general. And I think the gap will increase more with time.
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On October 13 2012 16:33 ThePrince wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 16:25 vthree wrote:On October 13 2012 15:04 hypercube wrote:
MC having a 50% record against the average Kespa player is quite significant. He should be at the same level or slightly better than the best Kespa players. It's hard to say because of the format but you'd expect something close to 60-65% performance at least. MC is at 56% if you dont count the forfeits。 His overall win rate in Korea in TLPD is 59 % so the difference is very small。 What about Alive, Puma, Alicia, Crank, and Oz. Are you telling me that all of their Korean win rates are in the negatives? Hehe. I still think that now Kespa is a bit better than GSL. Maybe not completely dominant, but they have a slight edge in general. And I think the gap will increase more with time.
You realize that Kespa sent 24 players which means it is only the top 3-4 players from each team, right? And how many of aLive, PuMa, Alicia, Crank and Oz were in Code S last season? Kespa players are improving quick but I would rank them slightly below eSF players at this moment.
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On October 13 2012 14:05 chiasmus wrote:The results have been updated, and there are huge numbers of forfeited games now: http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/competitions/52#event_128_resultsInterestingly, it's not just players like Idra and Socke, who have little chance of making the playoffs. Even MC and Naniwa have a bunch of forfeits. ...
I'm not sure the "little chance of making the playoffs" part is so obvious. Let's look at NA, currently 8 wins ties for 4th and a shot at the playoffs.
Idra is 3-33 with 7 forfeited sets: Soulkey, sOs, Light, Jaehoon, Jaedong, Bisu, Rain. He could now be tied for 4th with 5 wins from the 14 forfeited games, win rate required was 35.7%.
Sheth is 3-33 with 8 forfeited sets: Jaehoon, Jaedong, ty, Stats, Action, Crazy-Hydra, soO, FanTaSy. He could now be tied for 4th with 5 wins from the 16 forfeited games, win rate required was 31.3%.
In EU (with Ret and Socke) and only 2 playoff spots it might be more that way, but a 50% win rate from Ret would have him on 13 wins and still in contention for a spot.
Needing a 35% win rate to make the playoffs in a PPV event and forfeiting instead is <self censored>.
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this tournament.. god damn. so many good players, such a botched setup.
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On October 13 2012 16:33 ThePrince wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 16:25 vthree wrote:On October 13 2012 15:04 hypercube wrote:
MC having a 50% record against the average Kespa player is quite significant. He should be at the same level or slightly better than the best Kespa players. It's hard to say because of the format but you'd expect something close to 60-65% performance at least. MC is at 56% if you dont count the forfeits。 His overall win rate in Korea in TLPD is 59 % so the difference is very small。 What about Alive, Puma, Alicia, Crank, and Oz. Are you telling me that all of their Korean win rates are in the negatives? Hehe. I still think that now Kespa is a bit better than GSL. Maybe not completely dominant, but they have a slight edge in general. And I think the gap will increase more with time.
since u mentioned
MC is 56% at MvP now, his match win ratio in GSL is 58.1%, not big difference, and that 58.1% counts in those games in his prime, his win ratio in the last 30 GSL match is only 53.3%
Crank is 45% at MvP, and 40% at GSL
Puma is 41% at MvP, he never made to GSL code A
Alicia is 41% at MvP, but only 33.3 % win ratio in recent 30 GSL match
Oz is 38% at MvP, and 40% in recent 30 GSL match
Alive is 41% at MvP, 53 % at GSL
Crank is 45% at MvP, and 40% at GSL
So the most you can say is KeSP is similar to mid GSL
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It is impossible to make a comparison between the levels of different players in that tournament. 33-3 looks really one sided but I doubt they would be getting 33-3 playing amongst themselves. Nor would they do it if we were looking at a playlist of the best foreigners in the world or the full GSL Code S and A. At the moment, Thorzain, Naniwa and Grubby have taken a combined 49 games off proleaguers just by themselves
What's more, their scores are inflated by the fact they are all playing the americans. The fact that some of the better foreigners are trading pretty evenly with the Proleaguers suggests they still have a long way to go.
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On October 13 2012 17:17 Baroninthetree wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 16:33 ThePrince wrote:On October 13 2012 16:25 vthree wrote:On October 13 2012 15:04 hypercube wrote:
MC having a 50% record against the average Kespa player is quite significant. He should be at the same level or slightly better than the best Kespa players. It's hard to say because of the format but you'd expect something close to 60-65% performance at least. MC is at 56% if you dont count the forfeits。 His overall win rate in Korea in TLPD is 59 % so the difference is very small。 What about Alive, Puma, Alicia, Crank, and Oz. Are you telling me that all of their Korean win rates are in the negatives? Hehe. I still think that now Kespa is a bit better than GSL. Maybe not completely dominant, but they have a slight edge in general. And I think the gap will increase more with time. since u mentioned MC is 56% at MvP now, his match win ratio in GSL is 58.1%, not big difference, and that 58.1% counts in those games in his prime, his win ratio in the last 30 GSL match is only 53.3% Crank is 45% at MvP, and 40% at GSL Puma is 41% at MvP, he never made to GSL code A Alicia is 41% at MvP, but only 33.3 % win ratio in recent 30 GSL match Oz is 38% at MvP, and 40% in recent 30 GSL match Alive is 41% at MvP, 53 % at GSL Crank is 45% at MvP, and 40% at GSL So the most you can say is KeSP is similar to mid GSL
Thank you for your very informative posts. I like you.
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EPT
