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On August 16 2012 23:45 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 23:44 Orek wrote:On August 16 2012 23:43 TheDwf wrote:On August 16 2012 23:41 Orek wrote:
If even pro Zergs don't micro, then Raven works. Why bother thinking about 10 years from now when Zerg starts microing and theorycraft that Raven is bad? Just use them and win. Zerg can split? Sure, as if you cannot split raven... Pro Zergs eventually learnt to micro against Vortex Archons, even if they still painfully fail at times. Why wouldn't the same thing occur for Ravens? Not to mention that getting a Raven fleet is way harder than building a Mothership. Let's complain when that finally happens. Actually it already happens when the Zerg player does not go into Zombie mode.
well protoss players back then said " zerg can just micro and one day mothership vortex will be useless and pvz will be so imba *cry*cry*"
now terrans say "zergs might eventually be THAT good at spreading their air units that HSM won't be careful anymore"
and what did protosses do?
they continued using vortexes and it still worked even if they didnt kill 100% of the broods anymore
terrans just need to do it so they at least force the zerg to micro and it will still be impossible to minimize the splash enough that HSM would be useless
did you ever try to micro corrupters and broodlords
I tried that back when i still played terran and wondered why zergs always mess up their BL/corruptor spread vs vortex so badly
it's fricking impossible to spread them ans still have them attack at the same time
It's not a problem to spread them and have them sit idle in the back but that is not what you want to happen either
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Northern Ireland23910 Posts
On August 16 2012 23:52 AxionSteel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 23:49 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 16 2012 23:45 Elios wrote:On August 16 2012 23:37 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 16 2012 23:35 Elios wrote:On August 16 2012 23:33 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 16 2012 23:32 Elios wrote:
The best terran in the world ... come and make 20 ravens and wins...
Terrans still say "Ravens are bad!!"...
Just learn to play the game. Just read the posts people who actually know what they're talking about have made on this. Starcraft isn't a game where you just summon good units out of nowhere, you have to consider transitioning to them, being safe in the interim, the possibility of your opponent techswitching etc etc So you simply ... learn to play the game...Thx . Yeah I'll take the advice of a trash poster who doesn't have any idea what he's talking about and doesn't expand on his points. I suppose if you tried to expand on them you'd prove your ignorance so one sentence 'learn to plays' help you hide your miniscule knowledge of the game. Stop crying ...if terran nowadays dont know how to play with ravens its ok ... at least someone knows and guess what ... hes MVP...so go back to your world where "Ravens are bad". I am not arguing that Ravens are bad based on nothing, unlike your 'Ravens are good because of one game'. I play Protoss anyway so it's really not a matter of learning how to play another race to the level where I can prove my points are right. Ravens are good in a game where drop play takes out numerous hatcheries and Nestea shows no aggression, the entirety of the game, AND engages badly at the end. Oh and on a split map. It's not Ravens being good or bad that I'm arguing about, I'm pointing out piss-poor posting with no reasoning given for the points put forth, or comprehension/response being made to other posters who take the time to fucking actually write decent posts. The nearest equivalent I can think of is claiming that Mass BC/Ghost vs Mothership/Archon/Stalker is viable PvT because of Squirtle vs MVP in the GSL final on this very map. There are innumerable reasons as to why that was a pretty unique game, without much application for other maps. That last game re the Raven is exactly the same I admire your patience with this guy 
If I can salvage at least one piss-poor poster's output, it'll have been worth it.
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On August 16 2012 23:49 Elios wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 23:47 TheDwf wrote:On August 16 2012 23:45 Elios wrote:On August 16 2012 23:37 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 16 2012 23:35 Elios wrote:On August 16 2012 23:33 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 16 2012 23:32 Elios wrote:
The best terran in the world ... come and make 20 ravens and wins...
Terrans still say "Ravens are bad!!"...
Just learn to play the game. Just read the posts people who actually know what they're talking about have made on this. Starcraft isn't a game where you just summon good units out of nowhere, you have to consider transitioning to them, being safe in the interim, the possibility of your opponent techswitching etc etc So you simply ... learn to play the game...Thx . Yeah I'll take the advice of a trash poster who doesn't have any idea what he's talking about and doesn't expand on his points. I suppose if you tried to expand on them you'd prove your ignorance so one sentence 'learn to plays' help you hide your miniscule knowledge of the game. Stop crying ...if terran nowadays dont know how to play with ravens its ok ... at least someone knows and guess what ... hes MVP...so go back to your world where "Ravens are bad". Please tell us more about the incredible no split from Nestea which allowed Ravens to be good. Why would he split if he didnt even see the ravens before? ... That was all MVP strategy ...
Did someone forbide him to scout? And anyway, couldn't he guess that Mvp was doing this transition? Since mass Ghosts no longer exists there are not many other possibilities...
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On August 16 2012 23:49 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 23:45 Elios wrote:On August 16 2012 23:37 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 16 2012 23:35 Elios wrote:On August 16 2012 23:33 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 16 2012 23:32 Elios wrote:
The best terran in the world ... come and make 20 ravens and wins...
Terrans still say "Ravens are bad!!"...
Just learn to play the game. Just read the posts people who actually know what they're talking about have made on this. Starcraft isn't a game where you just summon good units out of nowhere, you have to consider transitioning to them, being safe in the interim, the possibility of your opponent techswitching etc etc So you simply ... learn to play the game...Thx . Yeah I'll take the advice of a trash poster who doesn't have any idea what he's talking about and doesn't expand on his points. I suppose if you tried to expand on them you'd prove your ignorance so one sentence 'learn to plays' help you hide your miniscule knowledge of the game. Stop crying ...if terran nowadays dont know how to play with ravens its ok ... at least someone knows and guess what ... hes MVP...so go back to your world where "Ravens are bad". I am not arguing that Ravens are bad based on nothing, unlike your 'Ravens are good because of one game'. I play Protoss anyway so it's really not a matter of learning how to play another race to the level where I can prove my points are right. Ravens are good in a game where drop play takes out numerous hatcheries and Nestea shows no aggression, the entirety of the game, AND engages badly at the end. Oh and on a split map. It's not Ravens being good or bad that I'm arguing about, I'm pointing out piss-poor posting with no reasoning given for the points put forth, or comprehension/response being made to other posters who take the time to fucking actually write decent posts. The nearest equivalent I can think of is claiming that Mass BC/Ghost vs Mothership/Archon/Stalker is viable PvT because of Squirtle vs MVP in the GSL final on this very map. There are innumerable reasons as to why that was a pretty unique game, without much application for other maps. That last game re the Raven is exactly the same
Any unit is good if you know how to use it .. MVP just proved it ... stop saying "Was because of the map, the units, the drops ..."
A pro player will make an Unit work in a game by aplying his strategies ...
So basically learn to play the game.
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On August 16 2012 23:51 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 23:49 Lysanias wrote:On August 16 2012 23:47 Dosey wrote:On August 16 2012 23:43 Lysanias wrote:On August 16 2012 23:42 pallad wrote:On August 16 2012 23:39 Slaytilost wrote:On August 16 2012 23:36 Kaitokid wrote:
expected Tarson to give MVP a bottle of 100% alcohol but this is ok too I guess Polish candy is prolly just wodka in disguise. Its what they feed their kids anyway. Say what fool ? And in NL you feed kids with marihuana ? Yes what's the steriotype problem ? Why the hell do you Europeans get all the good shit as kids? Our parents feed us big macs and french fries dooming us to a life of obesity and diabetes. ... but you have TEAM USA !  The eagle, awful one liners and hot dogs. I know i'm forgetting tons. And Handegg. The real mans football!
I pref Rugby But i fear we are getting horribly of track.
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PiG shouldn't be losing to that :/
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On August 16 2012 23:43 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 23:41 Orek wrote:
If even pro Zergs don't micro, then Raven works. Why bother thinking about 10 years from now when Zerg starts microing and theorycraft that Raven is bad? Just use them and win. Zerg can split? Sure, as if you cannot split raven... Pro Zergs eventually learnt to micro against Vortex Archons, even if they still painfully fail at times. Why wouldn't the same thing occur for Ravens? Not to mention that getting a Raven fleet is way harder than building a Mothership.
There is a big difference between splitting against protoss and terran.
Against terran, if you spread too much, your BL can get picked off one by one by vikings. Against protoss, only blinks stalkers can kill stray BL and even then, they often stay so close to the rest that they get fungaled or killed by broodlings.
I don't think there is that much you can do on this map at that point in the game, you can't attack because of those high grounds preventing you from fungaling the vikings and you can't really defend once the battlecruisers are out.
I really hate this map, it's bad in pretty much every match-up and gets the most boring games when terran don't die quickly in the midgame against zergs...
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On August 16 2012 23:51 xrapture wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 23:49 Elios wrote:On August 16 2012 23:47 TheDwf wrote:On August 16 2012 23:45 Elios wrote:On August 16 2012 23:37 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 16 2012 23:35 Elios wrote:On August 16 2012 23:33 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 16 2012 23:32 Elios wrote:
The best terran in the world ... come and make 20 ravens and wins...
Terrans still say "Ravens are bad!!"...
Just learn to play the game. Just read the posts people who actually know what they're talking about have made on this. Starcraft isn't a game where you just summon good units out of nowhere, you have to consider transitioning to them, being safe in the interim, the possibility of your opponent techswitching etc etc So you simply ... learn to play the game...Thx . Yeah I'll take the advice of a trash poster who doesn't have any idea what he's talking about and doesn't expand on his points. I suppose if you tried to expand on them you'd prove your ignorance so one sentence 'learn to plays' help you hide your miniscule knowledge of the game. Stop crying ...if terran nowadays dont know how to play with ravens its ok ... at least someone knows and guess what ... hes MVP...so go back to your world where "Ravens are bad". Please tell us more about the incredible no split from Nestea which allowed Ravens to be good. Why would he split if he didnt even see the ravens before? ... That was all MVP strategy ... I don't understand. Terrans have been preemptively splitting vs all races for over a year. Toss do the same thing for emp...
Air units are inherently much harder to split compare to marines, templars. Also, splitting also hurts your DPS since not all your corrupters will be firing and vikings can kite them back and make them bunched again. Can the zerg players do a better job? Sure. But it is not as easy as it looks.
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On August 16 2012 23:52 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 23:52 AxionSteel wrote:On August 16 2012 23:49 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 16 2012 23:45 Elios wrote:On August 16 2012 23:37 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 16 2012 23:35 Elios wrote:On August 16 2012 23:33 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 16 2012 23:32 Elios wrote:
The best terran in the world ... come and make 20 ravens and wins...
Terrans still say "Ravens are bad!!"...
Just learn to play the game. Just read the posts people who actually know what they're talking about have made on this. Starcraft isn't a game where you just summon good units out of nowhere, you have to consider transitioning to them, being safe in the interim, the possibility of your opponent techswitching etc etc So you simply ... learn to play the game...Thx . Yeah I'll take the advice of a trash poster who doesn't have any idea what he's talking about and doesn't expand on his points. I suppose if you tried to expand on them you'd prove your ignorance so one sentence 'learn to plays' help you hide your miniscule knowledge of the game. Stop crying ...if terran nowadays dont know how to play with ravens its ok ... at least someone knows and guess what ... hes MVP...so go back to your world where "Ravens are bad". I am not arguing that Ravens are bad based on nothing, unlike your 'Ravens are good because of one game'. I play Protoss anyway so it's really not a matter of learning how to play another race to the level where I can prove my points are right. Ravens are good in a game where drop play takes out numerous hatcheries and Nestea shows no aggression, the entirety of the game, AND engages badly at the end. Oh and on a split map. It's not Ravens being good or bad that I'm arguing about, I'm pointing out piss-poor posting with no reasoning given for the points put forth, or comprehension/response being made to other posters who take the time to fucking actually write decent posts. The nearest equivalent I can think of is claiming that Mass BC/Ghost vs Mothership/Archon/Stalker is viable PvT because of Squirtle vs MVP in the GSL final on this very map. There are innumerable reasons as to why that was a pretty unique game, without much application for other maps. That last game re the Raven is exactly the same I admire your patience with this guy If I can salvage at least one piss-poor poster's output, it'll have been worth it.
Looks like you didn't get the response you hoped
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On August 16 2012 23:52 sVnteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 23:45 TheDwf wrote:On August 16 2012 23:44 Orek wrote:On August 16 2012 23:43 TheDwf wrote:On August 16 2012 23:41 Orek wrote:
If even pro Zergs don't micro, then Raven works. Why bother thinking about 10 years from now when Zerg starts microing and theorycraft that Raven is bad? Just use them and win. Zerg can split? Sure, as if you cannot split raven... Pro Zergs eventually learnt to micro against Vortex Archons, even if they still painfully fail at times. Why wouldn't the same thing occur for Ravens? Not to mention that getting a Raven fleet is way harder than building a Mothership. Let's complain when that finally happens. Actually it already happens when the Zerg player does not go into Zombie mode. well protoss players back then said " zerg can just micro and one day mothership vortex will be useless and pvz will be so imba *cry*cry*"
Yeah. And Protoss do lose games in which they do not manage to get a successful Vortex.
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Northern Ireland23910 Posts
On August 16 2012 23:52 sVnteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 23:45 TheDwf wrote:On August 16 2012 23:44 Orek wrote:On August 16 2012 23:43 TheDwf wrote:On August 16 2012 23:41 Orek wrote:
If even pro Zergs don't micro, then Raven works. Why bother thinking about 10 years from now when Zerg starts microing and theorycraft that Raven is bad? Just use them and win. Zerg can split? Sure, as if you cannot split raven... Pro Zergs eventually learnt to micro against Vortex Archons, even if they still painfully fail at times. Why wouldn't the same thing occur for Ravens? Not to mention that getting a Raven fleet is way harder than building a Mothership. Let's complain when that finally happens. Actually it already happens when the Zerg player does not go into Zombie mode. well protoss players back then said " zerg can just micro and one day mothership vortex will be useless and pvz will be so imba *cry*cry*" now terrans say "zergs might eventually be THAT good at spreading their air units that HSM won't be careful anymore" and what did protosses do? they continued using vortexes and it still worked even if they didnt kill 100% of the broods anymore terrans just need to do it so they at least force the zerg to micro and it will still be impossible to minimize the splash enough that HSM would be useless did you ever try to micro corrupters and broodlords I tried that back when i still played terran and wondered why zergs always mess up their BL/corruptor spread vs vortex so badly it's fricking impossible to spread them ans still have them attack at the same time It's not a problem to spread them and have them sit idle in the back but that is not what you want to happen either
Protoss keep resorting to Vortex it because it is pretty much the only potential way to beat a good Inf/BL player in an engagement. The other is mass upgraded air which is even tougher to pull off.
The only other reliable way I've seen lategame PvZ be played is HerO's warp prism play, which incidentally I'd love to see a bit more, not sure why other people don't exploit the immobility of the composition more a la Terrans.
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freaky would have won that game tbh 60 infestors ftw!
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On August 16 2012 23:53 Elios wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 23:49 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 16 2012 23:45 Elios wrote:On August 16 2012 23:37 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 16 2012 23:35 Elios wrote:On August 16 2012 23:33 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 16 2012 23:32 Elios wrote:
The best terran in the world ... come and make 20 ravens and wins...
Terrans still say "Ravens are bad!!"...
Just learn to play the game. Just read the posts people who actually know what they're talking about have made on this. Starcraft isn't a game where you just summon good units out of nowhere, you have to consider transitioning to them, being safe in the interim, the possibility of your opponent techswitching etc etc So you simply ... learn to play the game...Thx . Yeah I'll take the advice of a trash poster who doesn't have any idea what he's talking about and doesn't expand on his points. I suppose if you tried to expand on them you'd prove your ignorance so one sentence 'learn to plays' help you hide your miniscule knowledge of the game. Stop crying ...if terran nowadays dont know how to play with ravens its ok ... at least someone knows and guess what ... hes MVP...so go back to your world where "Ravens are bad". I am not arguing that Ravens are bad based on nothing, unlike your 'Ravens are good because of one game'. I play Protoss anyway so it's really not a matter of learning how to play another race to the level where I can prove my points are right. Ravens are good in a game where drop play takes out numerous hatcheries and Nestea shows no aggression, the entirety of the game, AND engages badly at the end. Oh and on a split map. It's not Ravens being good or bad that I'm arguing about, I'm pointing out piss-poor posting with no reasoning given for the points put forth, or comprehension/response being made to other posters who take the time to fucking actually write decent posts. The nearest equivalent I can think of is claiming that Mass BC/Ghost vs Mothership/Archon/Stalker is viable PvT because of Squirtle vs MVP in the GSL final on this very map. There are innumerable reasons as to why that was a pretty unique game, without much application for other maps. That last game re the Raven is exactly the same Any unit is good if you know how to use it .. MVP just proved it ... stop saying "Was because of the map, the units, the drops ..." A pro player will make an Unit work in a game by aplying his strategies ... So basically learn to play the game.
I agree to a degree. But some units do work better due to geography of the map. That is why you will see meta game shifts due to map changes.
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Northern Ireland23910 Posts
On August 16 2012 23:53 Elios wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 23:49 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 16 2012 23:45 Elios wrote:On August 16 2012 23:37 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 16 2012 23:35 Elios wrote:On August 16 2012 23:33 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 16 2012 23:32 Elios wrote:
The best terran in the world ... come and make 20 ravens and wins...
Terrans still say "Ravens are bad!!"...
Just learn to play the game. Just read the posts people who actually know what they're talking about have made on this. Starcraft isn't a game where you just summon good units out of nowhere, you have to consider transitioning to them, being safe in the interim, the possibility of your opponent techswitching etc etc So you simply ... learn to play the game...Thx . Yeah I'll take the advice of a trash poster who doesn't have any idea what he's talking about and doesn't expand on his points. I suppose if you tried to expand on them you'd prove your ignorance so one sentence 'learn to plays' help you hide your miniscule knowledge of the game. Stop crying ...if terran nowadays dont know how to play with ravens its ok ... at least someone knows and guess what ... hes MVP...so go back to your world where "Ravens are bad". I am not arguing that Ravens are bad based on nothing, unlike your 'Ravens are good because of one game'. I play Protoss anyway so it's really not a matter of learning how to play another race to the level where I can prove my points are right. Ravens are good in a game where drop play takes out numerous hatcheries and Nestea shows no aggression, the entirety of the game, AND engages badly at the end. Oh and on a split map. It's not Ravens being good or bad that I'm arguing about, I'm pointing out piss-poor posting with no reasoning given for the points put forth, or comprehension/response being made to other posters who take the time to fucking actually write decent posts. The nearest equivalent I can think of is claiming that Mass BC/Ghost vs Mothership/Archon/Stalker is viable PvT because of Squirtle vs MVP in the GSL final on this very map. There are innumerable reasons as to why that was a pretty unique game, without much application for other maps. That last game re the Raven is exactly the same Any unit is good if you know how to use it .. MVP just proved it ... stop saying "Was because of the map, the units, the drops ..." A pro player will make an Unit work in a game by aplying his strategies ... So basically learn to play the game.
Learn to read.
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nestea is so fucking sharp
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wow completely outplayed.
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ok for once that was a boring ZvZ. great hold by violet but he lost after it. the macro game then showed his disadvantage slowly...
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EPT
