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On August 10 2012 07:24 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 07:17 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 10 2012 07:09 sc2holar wrote:On August 10 2012 05:58 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 10 2012 00:05 sc2holar wrote:Dont think MC cares that much about the loss, he is pretty certainly going to be the highest earning player in WoL by the time HotS is released (MVP is the only player who is a threat but hes gonna need lots of time to recover from his surgery). in a couple of years, he will be the player most people think of when they look back at WoL, the Bosstoss who managed to claim the most money despite playing the statisticly least succesfull race. He is the only protoss in the top 10 earnings list, but he is the number one. http://sc2earnings.com/you can kinda tell by the way he is playing that he doesnt really "care", in the meaning that he has nothing left to prove. He still likes to win, but you can tell that he kinda lacks the motivation these days. No, MVP will be the one everyone will think about when looking back at WoL, winning 4 GSLs+WCG, Blizzcon(or whatever) is much more important than going left and right around the world and winning some tournies(and placing good in some). MVP was the most dominant player in 2011 and noone has never been as close as him to being a b....(eventhough he needed at least to do as well this year to even begin to think of it) whereas MC has never been a dominant player. So you are basicly saying there has never been a dominant protoss player in the history of SC2. i call BS, altough thats partly true due to the big slump toss suffered during the 1/1/1/stephano style roach days, but MC was always a player capable of adapting. The fact of the matter is, MC was the first player to really "dominate" the scene, if only for a short while, but after his second GSL win he was pretty much considered to be the best player in the world by most people. the fact that he is the highest earning player and yet the only protoss in the top 10 solidifies just how good he is. Imagine if he played Terran (the most succesful race if you look at the bigger picture) you can probably assume that he would have surpassed the 400k earninings by now. When people look back at WoL, the most prominent names will probably be MVP, MC and Nestea. And lol at MC being more dominant if he played Terran, do you have any evidence that supports this opinion? GomTvT. Remember when there was like 3 protoss and 7 zergs in code S? 50-60% of the playerpool in code S was terran. MC is a dominant player because he is the highest earning player in SC2 history so far. MC was the first player to win 2 GSLs and the first player to really be praised as the "best player in the world" And what part of being the highest earning player despite playing the statisticly least succesful race dont you get?
Does this make Stephano a dominating player aswell? cause sure he places high in all the turneys he enters(he even won more major events than MC after October).
IMO he's not, the only "greatest" players in my opinion are MVP and Nestea (you could argue about DRG at the beginning of the year).
Protoss does not have something like this yet...
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On August 10 2012 09:15 Rhaegar_tar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 07:24 sc2holar wrote:On August 10 2012 07:17 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 10 2012 07:09 sc2holar wrote:On August 10 2012 05:58 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 10 2012 00:05 sc2holar wrote:Dont think MC cares that much about the loss, he is pretty certainly going to be the highest earning player in WoL by the time HotS is released (MVP is the only player who is a threat but hes gonna need lots of time to recover from his surgery). in a couple of years, he will be the player most people think of when they look back at WoL, the Bosstoss who managed to claim the most money despite playing the statisticly least succesfull race. He is the only protoss in the top 10 earnings list, but he is the number one. http://sc2earnings.com/you can kinda tell by the way he is playing that he doesnt really "care", in the meaning that he has nothing left to prove. He still likes to win, but you can tell that he kinda lacks the motivation these days. No, MVP will be the one everyone will think about when looking back at WoL, winning 4 GSLs+WCG, Blizzcon(or whatever) is much more important than going left and right around the world and winning some tournies(and placing good in some). MVP was the most dominant player in 2011 and noone has never been as close as him to being a b....(eventhough he needed at least to do as well this year to even begin to think of it) whereas MC has never been a dominant player. So you are basicly saying there has never been a dominant protoss player in the history of SC2. i call BS, altough thats partly true due to the big slump toss suffered during the 1/1/1/stephano style roach days, but MC was always a player capable of adapting. The fact of the matter is, MC was the first player to really "dominate" the scene, if only for a short while, but after his second GSL win he was pretty much considered to be the best player in the world by most people. the fact that he is the highest earning player and yet the only protoss in the top 10 solidifies just how good he is. Imagine if he played Terran (the most succesful race if you look at the bigger picture) you can probably assume that he would have surpassed the 400k earninings by now. When people look back at WoL, the most prominent names will probably be MVP, MC and Nestea. And lol at MC being more dominant if he played Terran, do you have any evidence that supports this opinion? GomTvT. Remember when there was like 3 protoss and 7 zergs in code S? 50-60% of the playerpool in code S was terran. MC is a dominant player because he is the highest earning player in SC2 history so far. MC was the first player to win 2 GSLs and the first player to really be praised as the "best player in the world" And what part of being the highest earning player despite playing the statisticly least succesful race dont you get? Does this make Stephano a dominating player aswell? cause sure he places high in all the turneys he enters(he even won more major events than MC after October). IMO he's not, the only "greatest" players in my opinion are MVP and Nestea (you could argue about DRG at the beginning of the year). Protoss does not have something like this yet...
If you honestly don't think MC belongs up there with MVP and Nestea then I don't really know what else to say - all the best arguments have been made and if they don't change your mind then I think you're just being extremely biased. MC singlehandedly carried the Protoss torch for an extremely long time - about a year, or even longer, if I recall correctly - with other strong Toss players only emerging relatively recently. The very fact that, not counting the most recent GSL, Protoss would have zero GSL champions without MC, is already testament to how impressive MC's accomplishments are.
Also, Stephano should indeed be considered a dominating player given his performances in various foreign tournaments, but he certainly isn't MC/MVP/Nestea status.
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its not problem of a zealot, a probe holding position can solve problems too
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Man just watched the vods between Roro and Hack, and I gotta say I'm impressed.
Bringing back the BW ZvT style of quick lair off 2 bases into mutas and making it work, was fun to watch.
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On August 10 2012 09:15 Rhaegar_tar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 07:24 sc2holar wrote:On August 10 2012 07:17 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 10 2012 07:09 sc2holar wrote:On August 10 2012 05:58 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 10 2012 00:05 sc2holar wrote:Dont think MC cares that much about the loss, he is pretty certainly going to be the highest earning player in WoL by the time HotS is released (MVP is the only player who is a threat but hes gonna need lots of time to recover from his surgery). in a couple of years, he will be the player most people think of when they look back at WoL, the Bosstoss who managed to claim the most money despite playing the statisticly least succesfull race. He is the only protoss in the top 10 earnings list, but he is the number one. http://sc2earnings.com/you can kinda tell by the way he is playing that he doesnt really "care", in the meaning that he has nothing left to prove. He still likes to win, but you can tell that he kinda lacks the motivation these days. No, MVP will be the one everyone will think about when looking back at WoL, winning 4 GSLs+WCG, Blizzcon(or whatever) is much more important than going left and right around the world and winning some tournies(and placing good in some). MVP was the most dominant player in 2011 and noone has never been as close as him to being a b....(eventhough he needed at least to do as well this year to even begin to think of it) whereas MC has never been a dominant player. So you are basicly saying there has never been a dominant protoss player in the history of SC2. i call BS, altough thats partly true due to the big slump toss suffered during the 1/1/1/stephano style roach days, but MC was always a player capable of adapting. The fact of the matter is, MC was the first player to really "dominate" the scene, if only for a short while, but after his second GSL win he was pretty much considered to be the best player in the world by most people. the fact that he is the highest earning player and yet the only protoss in the top 10 solidifies just how good he is. Imagine if he played Terran (the most succesful race if you look at the bigger picture) you can probably assume that he would have surpassed the 400k earninings by now. When people look back at WoL, the most prominent names will probably be MVP, MC and Nestea. And lol at MC being more dominant if he played Terran, do you have any evidence that supports this opinion? GomTvT. Remember when there was like 3 protoss and 7 zergs in code S? 50-60% of the playerpool in code S was terran. MC is a dominant player because he is the highest earning player in SC2 history so far. MC was the first player to win 2 GSLs and the first player to really be praised as the "best player in the world" And what part of being the highest earning player despite playing the statisticly least succesful race dont you get? Does this make Stephano a dominating player aswell? cause sure he places high in all the turneys he enters(he even won more major events than MC after October). IMO he's not, the only "greatest" players in my opinion are MVP and Nestea (you could argue about DRG at the beginning of the year). Protoss does not have something like this yet...
Lmao of course stephano is a dominating player, he has probably been the undisputed best foreigner for about a year now. just look at how long he has hold the TLDP 1st placing.
MC won 2 GSLs before anyone else did and he pretty much always won series vs Nestea, both now and then.
If MC is not a dominant name in the starcraft than 2 and that protoss "doesnt have a dominant player" then youre either biased against MC or toss in general, or you dont know but you are talking about.
if you can argue that DRG is "a dominant player by the the beginning och this year" then you can argue that MC was the FIRST dominating player when he was the first to achieve 2 GSL wins, both by only dropping a couple of games during the entire tournament. Did you watch the game back then? DRG doesnt even have 2 GSL wins and MC has far more other major tournament wins.
im no MC fanboy im just trying to give you a reality check. If a player can stay relevant and dominant for such a long time (from the begining of starcraft 2 basicly until now and be the highest earning player despite playing the least succesful race by far) then he is a brilliant, and dominant name on the scene.
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On August 10 2012 15:18 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 09:15 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 10 2012 07:24 sc2holar wrote:On August 10 2012 07:17 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 10 2012 07:09 sc2holar wrote:On August 10 2012 05:58 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 10 2012 00:05 sc2holar wrote:Dont think MC cares that much about the loss, he is pretty certainly going to be the highest earning player in WoL by the time HotS is released (MVP is the only player who is a threat but hes gonna need lots of time to recover from his surgery). in a couple of years, he will be the player most people think of when they look back at WoL, the Bosstoss who managed to claim the most money despite playing the statisticly least succesfull race. He is the only protoss in the top 10 earnings list, but he is the number one. http://sc2earnings.com/you can kinda tell by the way he is playing that he doesnt really "care", in the meaning that he has nothing left to prove. He still likes to win, but you can tell that he kinda lacks the motivation these days. No, MVP will be the one everyone will think about when looking back at WoL, winning 4 GSLs+WCG, Blizzcon(or whatever) is much more important than going left and right around the world and winning some tournies(and placing good in some). MVP was the most dominant player in 2011 and noone has never been as close as him to being a b....(eventhough he needed at least to do as well this year to even begin to think of it) whereas MC has never been a dominant player. So you are basicly saying there has never been a dominant protoss player in the history of SC2. i call BS, altough thats partly true due to the big slump toss suffered during the 1/1/1/stephano style roach days, but MC was always a player capable of adapting. The fact of the matter is, MC was the first player to really "dominate" the scene, if only for a short while, but after his second GSL win he was pretty much considered to be the best player in the world by most people. the fact that he is the highest earning player and yet the only protoss in the top 10 solidifies just how good he is. Imagine if he played Terran (the most succesful race if you look at the bigger picture) you can probably assume that he would have surpassed the 400k earninings by now. When people look back at WoL, the most prominent names will probably be MVP, MC and Nestea. And lol at MC being more dominant if he played Terran, do you have any evidence that supports this opinion? GomTvT. Remember when there was like 3 protoss and 7 zergs in code S? 50-60% of the playerpool in code S was terran. MC is a dominant player because he is the highest earning player in SC2 history so far. MC was the first player to win 2 GSLs and the first player to really be praised as the "best player in the world" And what part of being the highest earning player despite playing the statisticly least succesful race dont you get? Does this make Stephano a dominating player aswell? cause sure he places high in all the turneys he enters(he even won more major events than MC after October). IMO he's not, the only "greatest" players in my opinion are MVP and Nestea (you could argue about DRG at the beginning of the year). Protoss does not have something like this yet... Lmao of course stephano is a dominating player, he has probably been the undisputed best foreigner for about a year now. just look at how long he has hold the TLDP 1st placing.MC won 2 GSLs before anyone else did and he pretty much always won series vs Nestea, both now and then. If MC is not a dominant name in the starcraft than 2 and that protoss "doesnt have a dominant player" then youre either biased against MC or toss in general, or you dont know but you are talking about. if you can argue that DRG is "a dominant player by the the beginning och this year" then you can argue that MC was the FIRST dominating player when he was the first to achieve 2 GSL wins, both by only dropping a couple of games during the entire tournament. Did you watch the game back then? im no MC fanboy im just trying to give you a reality check.
I don't know about undisputed best foreigner for a year. A year ago, no one really knew about Stephano other than that one French Zerg who was pretty good. Even after he won IPL 3 in October (his big breakout), Huk won MLG Orlando and was in Code S (falling 1 game short from making the Ro8 in GSL November). Meanwhile, Naniwa got 2nd at MLG Providence and won the MLG Global Invite.
Even around the start of 2012, Huk was doing quite well at MLG, getting 3rd and 4th respective during the Winter Season. Naniwa has been solid in the GSL, though his foreign results have been shitty.
And of course, TLPD ELO is just not that good of a measure to determine the best players. Tournament results are (at least in my opinion).
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maybe a year was an overestimation (when you try to look back its really hard to determine when a player started to dominate from the top of your head) but right now he is a pretty damn dominating player, i think most people would agree.
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On August 10 2012 15:29 sc2holar wrote:
maybe a year was an overestimation (when you try to look back its really hard to determine when a player started to dominate from the top of your head) but right now he is a pretty damn dominating player, i think most people would agree.
I agree with you there. I think he is the best foreigner, better than Naniwa.
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On August 10 2012 09:22 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 09:15 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 10 2012 07:24 sc2holar wrote:On August 10 2012 07:17 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 10 2012 07:09 sc2holar wrote:On August 10 2012 05:58 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 10 2012 00:05 sc2holar wrote:Dont think MC cares that much about the loss, he is pretty certainly going to be the highest earning player in WoL by the time HotS is released (MVP is the only player who is a threat but hes gonna need lots of time to recover from his surgery). in a couple of years, he will be the player most people think of when they look back at WoL, the Bosstoss who managed to claim the most money despite playing the statisticly least succesfull race. He is the only protoss in the top 10 earnings list, but he is the number one. http://sc2earnings.com/you can kinda tell by the way he is playing that he doesnt really "care", in the meaning that he has nothing left to prove. He still likes to win, but you can tell that he kinda lacks the motivation these days. No, MVP will be the one everyone will think about when looking back at WoL, winning 4 GSLs+WCG, Blizzcon(or whatever) is much more important than going left and right around the world and winning some tournies(and placing good in some). MVP was the most dominant player in 2011 and noone has never been as close as him to being a b....(eventhough he needed at least to do as well this year to even begin to think of it) whereas MC has never been a dominant player. So you are basicly saying there has never been a dominant protoss player in the history of SC2. i call BS, altough thats partly true due to the big slump toss suffered during the 1/1/1/stephano style roach days, but MC was always a player capable of adapting. The fact of the matter is, MC was the first player to really "dominate" the scene, if only for a short while, but after his second GSL win he was pretty much considered to be the best player in the world by most people. the fact that he is the highest earning player and yet the only protoss in the top 10 solidifies just how good he is. Imagine if he played Terran (the most succesful race if you look at the bigger picture) you can probably assume that he would have surpassed the 400k earninings by now. When people look back at WoL, the most prominent names will probably be MVP, MC and Nestea. And lol at MC being more dominant if he played Terran, do you have any evidence that supports this opinion? GomTvT. Remember when there was like 3 protoss and 7 zergs in code S? 50-60% of the playerpool in code S was terran. MC is a dominant player because he is the highest earning player in SC2 history so far. MC was the first player to win 2 GSLs and the first player to really be praised as the "best player in the world" And what part of being the highest earning player despite playing the statisticly least succesful race dont you get? Does this make Stephano a dominating player aswell? cause sure he places high in all the turneys he enters(he even won more major events than MC after October). IMO he's not, the only "greatest" players in my opinion are MVP and Nestea (you could argue about DRG at the beginning of the year). Protoss does not have something like this yet... If you honestly don't think MC belongs up there with MVP and Nestea then I don't really know what else to say - all the best arguments have been made and if they don't change your mind then I think you're just being extremely biased. MC singlehandedly carried the Protoss torch for an extremely long time - about a year, or even longer, if I recall correctly - with other strong Toss players only emerging relatively recently. The very fact that, not counting the most recent GSL, Protoss would have zero GSL champions without MC, is already testament to how impressive MC's accomplishments are. Also, Stephano should indeed be considered a dominating player given his performances in various foreign tournaments, but he certainly isn't MC/MVP/Nestea status.
for once, i agree with everything you say. When you think about it, pretty much every protoss build out there was either invented, popularized or perfected by MC. And he still has so many builds that only he can really execute. that says alot about a player.
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On August 10 2012 15:34 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 15:29 sc2holar wrote:
maybe a year was an overestimation (when you try to look back its really hard to determine when a player started to dominate from the top of your head) but right now he is a pretty damn dominating player, i think most people would agree. I agree with you there. I think he is the best foreigner, better than Naniwa.
Its undisputed (in my head lol) that stephano far outclasses Nani when it comes to winning games against koreans in a lan, bracket setup tournament where you dont get much time preparing for your opponant. Time will tell if he can prove himself in the GSL format where you and your chosen opponant has to prepare for a week before you face off. Naniwa is known to study his opponent and being able to adapt and alter his playstyle in order to win, while stephanos trademark style has become a bit predictable (yet deadly against people who are not prepared). Time will tell if he can adapt and study, but sadly his attitude seems to be "i dont watch other players i just go in and do my (usual) thing and win" wich i dont think would work very well in a GSL format. If he just changed his attitude a bit and perhaps practiced a little more i think he has far better chances than naniwa to be the first foreigner to reach a GSL finals.
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RORO!!!!!!!!!!!
Edit: Wrong thread Lawl!
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EPT
