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On August 10 2012 07:02 FataLe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 06:32 HolyArrow wrote:On August 10 2012 05:58 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 10 2012 00:05 sc2holar wrote:Dont think MC cares that much about the loss, he is pretty certainly going to be the highest earning player in WoL by the time HotS is released (MVP is the only player who is a threat but hes gonna need lots of time to recover from his surgery). in a couple of years, he will be the player most people think of when they look back at WoL, the Bosstoss who managed to claim the most money despite playing the statisticly least succesfull race. He is the only protoss in the top 10 earnings list, but he is the number one. http://sc2earnings.com/you can kinda tell by the way he is playing that he doesnt really "care", in the meaning that he has nothing left to prove. He still likes to win, but you can tell that he kinda lacks the motivation these days. No, MVP will be the one everyone will think about when looking back at WoL, winning 4 GSLs+WCG, Blizzcon(or whatever) is much more important than going left and right around the world and winning some tournies(and placing good in some). MVP was the most dominant player in 2011 and noone has never been as close as him to being a b....(eventhough he needed at least to do as well this year to even begin to think of it) whereas MC has never been a dominant player. MC has never been a dominant player? You don't end up winning the most prize money with the statistically least successful race in the overall history of competitive SC2 and end up being considered not a dominant player. MVP may have won the most high-profile tournaments, but MC has not only won the most prize money out of everyone, he has about as much prize money as all 5 Tosses under him put together (which is further testament to how impressive his achievements are relative to other players of his race). The fact is that MVP may have the most GSL wins and may have shown a longer period of dominance than any other player, but also plays the race that was the most successful for most of SC2's competitive lifespan (I'm talking about the big picture here, obviously Terran hasn't been dominating recently), and in my eyes, that correlation between personal success and overall Terran success dampens the impressiveness of MVP's achievements. I personally find it far more impressive when a player manages to stand out when no other players of his race even come close to him in achievements. I realize this post might offend some Terran/MVP fans, but that's not my intent, and I apologize if I accidentally come off as disrespectful toward MVP. My main point, put most simply, is that the most dominant player of the most dominant race is less impressive than the most dominant player of the least dominant race (again, I'm talking the big picture here - Terran isn't dominating anymore, but in the overall history of SC2, Terran has indeed been the most dominant, and since we're evaluating MC and MVP based on the complete history of competitive WoL, I think it's fair to also look at race success in that same scope). This. What seperated boxer from the rest of T? what seperated savior from the rest of Z? Race success is huge in determining just how great a player is. People tend to ignore that when MVP had the most dominant year in sc2 (2011) it was also the period of GOMTvT. That being said, MVP is an amazing player and has been the most successful in getting golds in high profile tourneys.
It's much less the state of T rather the state of Z and P that caused this though. Say what you want about TvT but in general the better Terran advanced. ZvZ and PvP early on during SC2's release simply made it so that if a Z or P wanted to win a tournament quite a bit of luck was involved, unless you're Nestea and are way ahead of the game.
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On August 10 2012 05:58 Rhaegar_tar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 00:05 sc2holar wrote:Dont think MC cares that much about the loss, he is pretty certainly going to be the highest earning player in WoL by the time HotS is released (MVP is the only player who is a threat but hes gonna need lots of time to recover from his surgery). in a couple of years, he will be the player most people think of when they look back at WoL, the Bosstoss who managed to claim the most money despite playing the statisticly least succesfull race. He is the only protoss in the top 10 earnings list, but he is the number one. http://sc2earnings.com/you can kinda tell by the way he is playing that he doesnt really "care", in the meaning that he has nothing left to prove. He still likes to win, but you can tell that he kinda lacks the motivation these days. No, MVP will be the one everyone will think about when looking back at WoL, winning 4 GSLs+WCG, Blizzcon(or whatever) is much more important than going left and right around the world and winning some tournies(and placing good in some). MVP was the most dominant player in 2011 and noone has never been as close as him to being a b....(eventhough he needed at least to do as well this year to even begin to think of it) whereas MC has never been a dominant player.
So you are basicly saying there has never been a dominant protoss player in the history of SC2. i call BS, altough thats partly true due to the big slump toss suffered during the 1/1/1/stephano style roach days, but MC was always a player capable of adapting.
The fact of the matter is, MC was the first player to really "dominate" the scene, if only for a short while, but after his second GSL win he was pretty much considered to be the best player in the world by most people.
the fact that he is the highest earning player and yet the only protoss in the top 10 solidifies just how good he is. Imagine if he played Terran (the most succesful race if you look at the bigger picture) you can probably assume that he would have surpassed the 400k earninings by now.
When people look back at WoL, the most prominent names will probably be MVP, MC and Nestea.
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On August 10 2012 07:09 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 05:58 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 10 2012 00:05 sc2holar wrote:Dont think MC cares that much about the loss, he is pretty certainly going to be the highest earning player in WoL by the time HotS is released (MVP is the only player who is a threat but hes gonna need lots of time to recover from his surgery). in a couple of years, he will be the player most people think of when they look back at WoL, the Bosstoss who managed to claim the most money despite playing the statisticly least succesfull race. He is the only protoss in the top 10 earnings list, but he is the number one. http://sc2earnings.com/you can kinda tell by the way he is playing that he doesnt really "care", in the meaning that he has nothing left to prove. He still likes to win, but you can tell that he kinda lacks the motivation these days. No, MVP will be the one everyone will think about when looking back at WoL, winning 4 GSLs+WCG, Blizzcon(or whatever) is much more important than going left and right around the world and winning some tournies(and placing good in some). MVP was the most dominant player in 2011 and noone has never been as close as him to being a b....(eventhough he needed at least to do as well this year to even begin to think of it) whereas MC has never been a dominant player. So you are basicly saying there has never been a dominant protoss player in the history of SC2. i call BS, altough thats partly true due to the big slump toss suffered during the 1/1/1/stephano style roach days, but MC was always a player capable of adapting. the fact that he is the highest earning player and yet the only protoss in the top 10 solidifies just how good he is. Imagine if he played Terran (the most succesful race if you look at the bigger picture) you can probably assume that he would have surpassed the 400k earninings by now. When people look back at WoL, the most prominent names will probably be MVP, MC and Nestea.
Completely agree with the bolded part. To me you have MC, Mvp and Nestea as tier 1 of the legendary players and MMA, Dongraegu and Marineking in tier 2, everyone else is tier 3 or under.
Although I do think that an argument could be made for MMA being a tier 1 player because he is a two time GSL champion and has won multiple golds at foreign tournaments.
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On August 10 2012 07:12 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 07:09 sc2holar wrote:On August 10 2012 05:58 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 10 2012 00:05 sc2holar wrote:Dont think MC cares that much about the loss, he is pretty certainly going to be the highest earning player in WoL by the time HotS is released (MVP is the only player who is a threat but hes gonna need lots of time to recover from his surgery). in a couple of years, he will be the player most people think of when they look back at WoL, the Bosstoss who managed to claim the most money despite playing the statisticly least succesfull race. He is the only protoss in the top 10 earnings list, but he is the number one. http://sc2earnings.com/you can kinda tell by the way he is playing that he doesnt really "care", in the meaning that he has nothing left to prove. He still likes to win, but you can tell that he kinda lacks the motivation these days. No, MVP will be the one everyone will think about when looking back at WoL, winning 4 GSLs+WCG, Blizzcon(or whatever) is much more important than going left and right around the world and winning some tournies(and placing good in some). MVP was the most dominant player in 2011 and noone has never been as close as him to being a b....(eventhough he needed at least to do as well this year to even begin to think of it) whereas MC has never been a dominant player. So you are basicly saying there has never been a dominant protoss player in the history of SC2. i call BS, altough thats partly true due to the big slump toss suffered during the 1/1/1/stephano style roach days, but MC was always a player capable of adapting. the fact that he is the highest earning player and yet the only protoss in the top 10 solidifies just how good he is. Imagine if he played Terran (the most succesful race if you look at the bigger picture) you can probably assume that he would have surpassed the 400k earninings by now. When people look back at WoL, the most prominent names will probably be MVP, MC and Nestea. Completely agree with the bolded part. To me you have MC, Mvp and Nestea as tier 1 of the legendary players and MMA, Dongraegu and Marineking in tier 2, everyone else is tier 3 or under. Although I do think that an argument could be made for MMA being a tier 1 player because he is a two time GSL champion and has won multiple golds at foreign tournaments.
Agree with this.
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On August 10 2012 07:09 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 05:58 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 10 2012 00:05 sc2holar wrote:Dont think MC cares that much about the loss, he is pretty certainly going to be the highest earning player in WoL by the time HotS is released (MVP is the only player who is a threat but hes gonna need lots of time to recover from his surgery). in a couple of years, he will be the player most people think of when they look back at WoL, the Bosstoss who managed to claim the most money despite playing the statisticly least succesfull race. He is the only protoss in the top 10 earnings list, but he is the number one. http://sc2earnings.com/you can kinda tell by the way he is playing that he doesnt really "care", in the meaning that he has nothing left to prove. He still likes to win, but you can tell that he kinda lacks the motivation these days. No, MVP will be the one everyone will think about when looking back at WoL, winning 4 GSLs+WCG, Blizzcon(or whatever) is much more important than going left and right around the world and winning some tournies(and placing good in some). MVP was the most dominant player in 2011 and noone has never been as close as him to being a b....(eventhough he needed at least to do as well this year to even begin to think of it) whereas MC has never been a dominant player. So you are basicly saying there has never been a dominant protoss player in the history of SC2. i call BS, altough thats partly true due to the big slump toss suffered during the 1/1/1/stephano style roach days, but MC was always a player capable of adapting. The fact of the matter is, MC was the first player to really "dominate" the scene, if only for a short while, but after his second GSL win he was pretty much considered to be the best player in the world by most people. the fact that he is the highest earning player and yet the only protoss in the top 10 solidifies just how good he is. Imagine if he played Terran (the most succesful race if you look at the bigger picture) you can probably assume that he would have surpassed the 400k earninings by now. When people look back at WoL, the most prominent names will probably be MVP, MC and Nestea.
^Well now Protoss has been hugely favored this year in GSL(with many protosses making ro8, ro4 and finals) and MC hasn't won a single GSL.
MC does look dominating because he goes to a lot of foreign events where player pool isn't that good except for a few players(HSC, Dreamhack, NASL...) and while he placed well, he hsn't won a single one. The only big win he had since october,2011 is IEM World. That's by no mean a dominant player.
And lol at MC being more dominant if he played Terran, do you have any evidence that supports this opinion?
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On August 10 2012 07:08 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 07:02 FataLe wrote:On August 10 2012 06:32 HolyArrow wrote:On August 10 2012 05:58 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 10 2012 00:05 sc2holar wrote:Dont think MC cares that much about the loss, he is pretty certainly going to be the highest earning player in WoL by the time HotS is released (MVP is the only player who is a threat but hes gonna need lots of time to recover from his surgery). in a couple of years, he will be the player most people think of when they look back at WoL, the Bosstoss who managed to claim the most money despite playing the statisticly least succesfull race. He is the only protoss in the top 10 earnings list, but he is the number one. http://sc2earnings.com/you can kinda tell by the way he is playing that he doesnt really "care", in the meaning that he has nothing left to prove. He still likes to win, but you can tell that he kinda lacks the motivation these days. No, MVP will be the one everyone will think about when looking back at WoL, winning 4 GSLs+WCG, Blizzcon(or whatever) is much more important than going left and right around the world and winning some tournies(and placing good in some). MVP was the most dominant player in 2011 and noone has never been as close as him to being a b....(eventhough he needed at least to do as well this year to even begin to think of it) whereas MC has never been a dominant player. MC has never been a dominant player? You don't end up winning the most prize money with the statistically least successful race in the overall history of competitive SC2 and end up being considered not a dominant player. MVP may have won the most high-profile tournaments, but MC has not only won the most prize money out of everyone, he has about as much prize money as all 5 Tosses under him put together (which is further testament to how impressive his achievements are relative to other players of his race). The fact is that MVP may have the most GSL wins and may have shown a longer period of dominance than any other player, but also plays the race that was the most successful for most of SC2's competitive lifespan (I'm talking about the big picture here, obviously Terran hasn't been dominating recently), and in my eyes, that correlation between personal success and overall Terran success dampens the impressiveness of MVP's achievements. I personally find it far more impressive when a player manages to stand out when no other players of his race even come close to him in achievements. I realize this post might offend some Terran/MVP fans, but that's not my intent, and I apologize if I accidentally come off as disrespectful toward MVP. My main point, put most simply, is that the most dominant player of the most dominant race is less impressive than the most dominant player of the least dominant race (again, I'm talking the big picture here - Terran isn't dominating anymore, but in the overall history of SC2, Terran has indeed been the most dominant, and since we're evaluating MC and MVP based on the complete history of competitive WoL, I think it's fair to also look at race success in that same scope). This. What seperated boxer from the rest of T? what seperated savior from the rest of Z? Race success is huge in determining just how great a player is. People tend to ignore that when MVP had the most dominant year in sc2 (2011) it was also the period of GOMTvT. That being said, MVP is an amazing player and has been the most successful in getting golds in high profile tourneys. It's much less the state of T rather the state of Z and P that caused this though. Say what you want about TvT but in general the better Terran advanced. ZvZ and PvP early on during SC2's release simply made it so that if a Z or P wanted to win a tournament quite a bit of luck was involved, unless you're Nestea and are way ahead of the game.
That's exactly my point. The reason why MC is even considered is becuase he managed to stay elite during the 2011 period. Where as, if you weren't a T. You were pretty much out of luck.
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On August 10 2012 07:12 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 07:09 sc2holar wrote:On August 10 2012 05:58 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 10 2012 00:05 sc2holar wrote:Dont think MC cares that much about the loss, he is pretty certainly going to be the highest earning player in WoL by the time HotS is released (MVP is the only player who is a threat but hes gonna need lots of time to recover from his surgery). in a couple of years, he will be the player most people think of when they look back at WoL, the Bosstoss who managed to claim the most money despite playing the statisticly least succesfull race. He is the only protoss in the top 10 earnings list, but he is the number one. http://sc2earnings.com/you can kinda tell by the way he is playing that he doesnt really "care", in the meaning that he has nothing left to prove. He still likes to win, but you can tell that he kinda lacks the motivation these days. No, MVP will be the one everyone will think about when looking back at WoL, winning 4 GSLs+WCG, Blizzcon(or whatever) is much more important than going left and right around the world and winning some tournies(and placing good in some). MVP was the most dominant player in 2011 and noone has never been as close as him to being a b....(eventhough he needed at least to do as well this year to even begin to think of it) whereas MC has never been a dominant player. So you are basicly saying there has never been a dominant protoss player in the history of SC2. i call BS, altough thats partly true due to the big slump toss suffered during the 1/1/1/stephano style roach days, but MC was always a player capable of adapting. the fact that he is the highest earning player and yet the only protoss in the top 10 solidifies just how good he is. Imagine if he played Terran (the most succesful race if you look at the bigger picture) you can probably assume that he would have surpassed the 400k earninings by now. When people look back at WoL, the most prominent names will probably be MVP, MC and Nestea. Completely agree with the bolded part. To me you have MC, Mvp and Nestea as tier 1 of the legendary players and MMA, Dongraegu and Marineking in tier 2, everyone else is tier 3 or under. Although I do think that an argument could be made for MMA being a tier 1 player because he is a two time GSL champion and has won multiple golds at foreign tournaments.
I guess it depends how how you look at things. Dating back to broodwar, there is this "there can be only one (of each race) way of thinking, people like to point out the single most dominating players from each race and put them on a pediestal. In broodwar it is Jaedong, Bisu and Flash, and in WoL its undoubtly MVP, MC and Nestea so far. But there is still time for seed to win a second and possibly a third GSL championship so it might be to early to call.
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On August 10 2012 07:17 Rhaegar_tar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 07:09 sc2holar wrote:On August 10 2012 05:58 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 10 2012 00:05 sc2holar wrote:Dont think MC cares that much about the loss, he is pretty certainly going to be the highest earning player in WoL by the time HotS is released (MVP is the only player who is a threat but hes gonna need lots of time to recover from his surgery). in a couple of years, he will be the player most people think of when they look back at WoL, the Bosstoss who managed to claim the most money despite playing the statisticly least succesfull race. He is the only protoss in the top 10 earnings list, but he is the number one. http://sc2earnings.com/you can kinda tell by the way he is playing that he doesnt really "care", in the meaning that he has nothing left to prove. He still likes to win, but you can tell that he kinda lacks the motivation these days. No, MVP will be the one everyone will think about when looking back at WoL, winning 4 GSLs+WCG, Blizzcon(or whatever) is much more important than going left and right around the world and winning some tournies(and placing good in some). MVP was the most dominant player in 2011 and noone has never been as close as him to being a b....(eventhough he needed at least to do as well this year to even begin to think of it) whereas MC has never been a dominant player. So you are basicly saying there has never been a dominant protoss player in the history of SC2. i call BS, altough thats partly true due to the big slump toss suffered during the 1/1/1/stephano style roach days, but MC was always a player capable of adapting. The fact of the matter is, MC was the first player to really "dominate" the scene, if only for a short while, but after his second GSL win he was pretty much considered to be the best player in the world by most people. the fact that he is the highest earning player and yet the only protoss in the top 10 solidifies just how good he is. Imagine if he played Terran (the most succesful race if you look at the bigger picture) you can probably assume that he would have surpassed the 400k earninings by now. When people look back at WoL, the most prominent names will probably be MVP, MC and Nestea. And lol at MC being more dominant if he played Terran, do you have any evidence that supports this opinion?
GomTvT. Remember when there was like 3 protoss and 7 zergs in code S? 50-60% of the playerpool in code S was terran.
MC is a dominant player because he is the highest earning player in SC2 history so far.
MC was the first player to win 2 GSLs and the first player to really be praised as the "best player in the world"
And what part of being the highest earning player despite playing the statisticly least succesful race dont you get?
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On August 10 2012 07:20 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 07:12 Dodgin wrote:On August 10 2012 07:09 sc2holar wrote:On August 10 2012 05:58 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 10 2012 00:05 sc2holar wrote:Dont think MC cares that much about the loss, he is pretty certainly going to be the highest earning player in WoL by the time HotS is released (MVP is the only player who is a threat but hes gonna need lots of time to recover from his surgery). in a couple of years, he will be the player most people think of when they look back at WoL, the Bosstoss who managed to claim the most money despite playing the statisticly least succesfull race. He is the only protoss in the top 10 earnings list, but he is the number one. http://sc2earnings.com/you can kinda tell by the way he is playing that he doesnt really "care", in the meaning that he has nothing left to prove. He still likes to win, but you can tell that he kinda lacks the motivation these days. No, MVP will be the one everyone will think about when looking back at WoL, winning 4 GSLs+WCG, Blizzcon(or whatever) is much more important than going left and right around the world and winning some tournies(and placing good in some). MVP was the most dominant player in 2011 and noone has never been as close as him to being a b....(eventhough he needed at least to do as well this year to even begin to think of it) whereas MC has never been a dominant player. So you are basicly saying there has never been a dominant protoss player in the history of SC2. i call BS, altough thats partly true due to the big slump toss suffered during the 1/1/1/stephano style roach days, but MC was always a player capable of adapting. the fact that he is the highest earning player and yet the only protoss in the top 10 solidifies just how good he is. Imagine if he played Terran (the most succesful race if you look at the bigger picture) you can probably assume that he would have surpassed the 400k earninings by now. When people look back at WoL, the most prominent names will probably be MVP, MC and Nestea. Completely agree with the bolded part. To me you have MC, Mvp and Nestea as tier 1 of the legendary players and MMA, Dongraegu and Marineking in tier 2, everyone else is tier 3 or under. Although I do think that an argument could be made for MMA being a tier 1 player because he is a two time GSL champion and has won multiple golds at foreign tournaments. I guess it depends how how you look at things. Dating back to broodwar, there is this "there can be only one (of each race) way of thinking, people like to point out the single most dominating players from each race and put them on a pediestal. In broodwar it is probably be Jaedong, Bisu and Flash, and in WoL its undoubtly MVP, MC and Nestea so far. But there is still time for seed to win a second and possibly a third GSL championship so it might be to early to call.
I think you're right, what is holding back MMA from a clear tier 1 position is the fact that there is another more successful player of the same race. It's the Brood War way of thinking where you have one player of each race at the top and they are the " tier 1 " and you cannot have more than one player of the same race in " tier 1 " because one of them is clearly more deserving.
It's hard to say what the right way to look at it is, in my personal opinion I would put MMA in tier 1. During the mid-late 2011 battle for who the best Terran is between Mvp and MMA it swung back and forth multiple times, the " winner " was never declared even in the very end because while MMA had just won the Blizzard Cup, Mvp had just won the first WCG Korea and WCG World Championship. MMA was ahead in head-to-head record 17-10, 9-9 internationally but 8-1 in Korean tournaments, so he dominated Mvp there.
in 2012 their rivalry seemed to end, because they have not played a single televised game against each other since the Blizzard Cup semi-finals. ( this makes me extremely sad considering how often they played each other in 2011, always loved MMA vs Mvp series' )
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On August 10 2012 07:32 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 07:20 sc2holar wrote:On August 10 2012 07:12 Dodgin wrote:On August 10 2012 07:09 sc2holar wrote:On August 10 2012 05:58 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 10 2012 00:05 sc2holar wrote:Dont think MC cares that much about the loss, he is pretty certainly going to be the highest earning player in WoL by the time HotS is released (MVP is the only player who is a threat but hes gonna need lots of time to recover from his surgery). in a couple of years, he will be the player most people think of when they look back at WoL, the Bosstoss who managed to claim the most money despite playing the statisticly least succesfull race. He is the only protoss in the top 10 earnings list, but he is the number one. http://sc2earnings.com/you can kinda tell by the way he is playing that he doesnt really "care", in the meaning that he has nothing left to prove. He still likes to win, but you can tell that he kinda lacks the motivation these days. No, MVP will be the one everyone will think about when looking back at WoL, winning 4 GSLs+WCG, Blizzcon(or whatever) is much more important than going left and right around the world and winning some tournies(and placing good in some). MVP was the most dominant player in 2011 and noone has never been as close as him to being a b....(eventhough he needed at least to do as well this year to even begin to think of it) whereas MC has never been a dominant player. So you are basicly saying there has never been a dominant protoss player in the history of SC2. i call BS, altough thats partly true due to the big slump toss suffered during the 1/1/1/stephano style roach days, but MC was always a player capable of adapting. the fact that he is the highest earning player and yet the only protoss in the top 10 solidifies just how good he is. Imagine if he played Terran (the most succesful race if you look at the bigger picture) you can probably assume that he would have surpassed the 400k earninings by now. When people look back at WoL, the most prominent names will probably be MVP, MC and Nestea. Completely agree with the bolded part. To me you have MC, Mvp and Nestea as tier 1 of the legendary players and MMA, Dongraegu and Marineking in tier 2, everyone else is tier 3 or under. Although I do think that an argument could be made for MMA being a tier 1 player because he is a two time GSL champion and has won multiple golds at foreign tournaments. I guess it depends how how you look at things. Dating back to broodwar, there is this "there can be only one (of each race) way of thinking, people like to point out the single most dominating players from each race and put them on a pediestal. In broodwar it is probably be Jaedong, Bisu and Flash, and in WoL its undoubtly MVP, MC and Nestea so far. But there is still time for seed to win a second and possibly a third GSL championship so it might be to early to call. I think you're right, what is holding back MMA from a clear tier 1 position is the fact that there is another more successful player of the same race. It's the Brood War way of thinking where you have one player of each race at the top and they are the " tier 1 " and you cannot have more than one player of the same race in " tier 1 " because one of them is clearly more deserving. It's hard to say what the right way to look at it is, in my personal opinion I would put MMA in tier 1. During the mid-late 2011 battle for who the best Terran is between Mvp and MMA it swung back and forth multiple times, the " winner " was never declared even in the very end because while MMA had just won the Blizzard Cup, Mvp had just won the first WCG Korea and WCG World Championship. MMA was ahead in head-to-head record 17-10, 9-9 internationally but 8-1 in Korean tournaments, so he dominated Mvp there. in 2012 their rivalry seemed to end, because they have not played a single televised game against each other since the Blizzard Cup semi-finals. ( this makes me extremely sad considering how often they played each other in 2011, always loved MMA vs Mvp series' )
Dude you hit the nail, MMA vs MVP was like the Unstoppable Force vs the Immovable Object. It kept the GomTvT era entertaining and their rivalry make me purchase premium tickets for every single season despite the fact that i was genuinly bored with watching TvT in general at that point.
Greatest Rivalry in SC2 history? i cant think of any other famous rivalry that could compete, Nestea vs MC was always hyped up people just craved to seem them duke it out, but they never really got to play each others that often and the results tended to be one sided in the favor of MC (i think? cant remember, its actually quite a long time ago lol)
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In my opinion It's the greatest rivalry in sc2, certainly the one I enjoyed following the most.
Someone needs to sponsor a MMA vs Mvp bo7 or something, I would watch the shit out of that. 30k viewers? Have Khaldor cast it.
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United States97276 Posts
It's definitely up there as one of the best rivalries in sc2 so far. I still remember that epic GSTL game on Dual Sight. damn. You knew this rivalry was going to be something special at that moment. MMA vs DRG is probably a close second although I think it's funny that Liquipedia lists MKP and DRG as each others' main rivals xD instead of MMA and DRG as rivals
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On August 10 2012 07:59 Shellshock1122 wrote:
It's definitely up there as one of the best rivalries in sc2 so far. I still remember that epic GSTL game on Dual Sight. damn. You knew this rivalry was going to be something special at that moment. MMA vs DRG is probably a close second although I think it's funny that Liquipedia lists MKP and DRG as each others' main rivals xD instead of MMA and DRG as rivals
That is probably because MKP had his "comeback" into the spotlight as a dominating player (when he went to MLGs and melted faces and people called him the best player in the world, famous for his unstoppable TvP) during the era when DRG was at his peak level of fame and play. i remember endless debates/speculations about wich one of them was the "best player in the world right now" in both LR threads and MLG casts.
and i can see how some people might argue that DRG is the Zerg equivalent of MKP, both being top notch players but always in the shadows of their "big brother" MVP/Nestea.
Kinda like stork and fantasy was often overshadowed by bisu and flash.
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MMA vs DRG in 2011 was the greatest rivalry for me. They were both aces for their teams. It was fun shit to watch.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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On August 10 2012 08:38 opterown wrote:
i liked idra-mc =)
idra against idra is always pretty fun as well!
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woot! go Roro!!
go KHAN players!! 
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On August 10 2012 08:38 opterown wrote:
i liked idra-mc =)
Idra-MC is one of my favorite rivalries just because of how funny it is. It's not a particularly competitive one, though xD
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On August 10 2012 07:17 Rhaegar_tar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 07:09 sc2holar wrote:On August 10 2012 05:58 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 10 2012 00:05 sc2holar wrote:Dont think MC cares that much about the loss, he is pretty certainly going to be the highest earning player in WoL by the time HotS is released (MVP is the only player who is a threat but hes gonna need lots of time to recover from his surgery). in a couple of years, he will be the player most people think of when they look back at WoL, the Bosstoss who managed to claim the most money despite playing the statisticly least succesfull race. He is the only protoss in the top 10 earnings list, but he is the number one. http://sc2earnings.com/you can kinda tell by the way he is playing that he doesnt really "care", in the meaning that he has nothing left to prove. He still likes to win, but you can tell that he kinda lacks the motivation these days. No, MVP will be the one everyone will think about when looking back at WoL, winning 4 GSLs+WCG, Blizzcon(or whatever) is much more important than going left and right around the world and winning some tournies(and placing good in some). MVP was the most dominant player in 2011 and noone has never been as close as him to being a b....(eventhough he needed at least to do as well this year to even begin to think of it) whereas MC has never been a dominant player. So you are basicly saying there has never been a dominant protoss player in the history of SC2. i call BS, altough thats partly true due to the big slump toss suffered during the 1/1/1/stephano style roach days, but MC was always a player capable of adapting. The fact of the matter is, MC was the first player to really "dominate" the scene, if only for a short while, but after his second GSL win he was pretty much considered to be the best player in the world by most people. the fact that he is the highest earning player and yet the only protoss in the top 10 solidifies just how good he is. Imagine if he played Terran (the most succesful race if you look at the bigger picture) you can probably assume that he would have surpassed the 400k earninings by now. When people look back at WoL, the most prominent names will probably be MVP, MC and Nestea. ^Well now Protoss has been hugely favored this year in GSL(with many protosses making ro8, ro4 and finals) and MC hasn't won a single GSL. MC does look dominating because he goes to a lot of foreign events where player pool isn't that good except for a few players(HSC, Dreamhack, NASL...) and while he placed well, he hsn't won a single one. The only big win he had since october,2011 is IEM World. That's by no mean a dominant player. And lol at MC being more dominant if he played Terran, do you have any evidence that supports this opinion?
MC made it to the finals of the most recent GSL, which is definitely a great achievement. He may place high in tons of foreign events without winning, but he travels so much that I find his ability to still stay an extremely strong player despite traveling all the time to be one of his most impressive aspects. Also, I didn't realize that winning tournaments was the only metric for dominance. I'm pretty sure most people would say that MKP was extremely dominant around a year ago for just placing high in so many GSLs, despite not winning any.
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On August 10 2012 07:09 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 05:58 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 10 2012 00:05 sc2holar wrote:Dont think MC cares that much about the loss, he is pretty certainly going to be the highest earning player in WoL by the time HotS is released (MVP is the only player who is a threat but hes gonna need lots of time to recover from his surgery). in a couple of years, he will be the player most people think of when they look back at WoL, the Bosstoss who managed to claim the most money despite playing the statisticly least succesfull race. He is the only protoss in the top 10 earnings list, but he is the number one. http://sc2earnings.com/you can kinda tell by the way he is playing that he doesnt really "care", in the meaning that he has nothing left to prove. He still likes to win, but you can tell that he kinda lacks the motivation these days. No, MVP will be the one everyone will think about when looking back at WoL, winning 4 GSLs+WCG, Blizzcon(or whatever) is much more important than going left and right around the world and winning some tournies(and placing good in some). MVP was the most dominant player in 2011 and noone has never been as close as him to being a b....(eventhough he needed at least to do as well this year to even begin to think of it) whereas MC has never been a dominant player. So you are basicly saying there has never been a dominant protoss player in the history of SC2. i call BS, altough thats partly true due to the big slump toss suffered during the 1/1/1/stephano style roach days, but MC was always a player capable of adapting. The fact of the matter is, M C was the first player to really "dominate" the scene, if only for a short while, but after his second GSL win he was pretty much considered to be the best player in the world by most people. the fact that he is the highest earning player and yet the only protoss in the top 10 solidifies just how good he is. Imagine if he played Terran (the most succesful race if you look at the bigger picture) you can probably assume that he would have surpassed the 400k earninings by now. When people look back at WoL, the most prominent names will probably be MVP, MC and Nestea.
Pretty sure that was NesTea IIRC then MVP came along and said "NO!".
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EPT
