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On August 10 2012 02:09 Gorlin wrote:Wow, you see people try to be cute with immortals and warp prisms fairly often, but usually just when they're already dead or already won. I've never seen someone micro them as effectively as Squirtle did in that game 1, god damn that was insane. Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 02:02 [N3O]r3d33m3r wrote:
nice to see two elephants brining home the bacon - Roro and Reality! I hate this, did you even read the article? In that original article, the "elephant" was supposed to be people like Flash, Fantasy, etc because since they are so talented, SC2's competition is a "farce" without their talent. Them losing when Roro and Reality win is counter evidence to that stupid article. When 200 new people start playing at the professional level, obviously some of them will be good and will win (Roro and Reality in this case). The article did not argue "when the BW players switch, there will be more competitors in the scene!", it argued "when S and A class BW players switch, current code S players will never win ever again". That is why that article was fucking dumb as hell.
The only reason you see players like Reality and Roro do well is that all the stars (especially Jaedong) mostly prepares for PL. - reality and roro aren't that important in PL because they are not as good as the ace players. Besides, Flash and Fantasy have focused almost only on BW. Unlike Roro and Reality, they got far in the last BW starleagues.
And that wasnt even the point of the article, the point was that there are 300 professional bw players who all have about the same skills as nestea, MC and MVP.
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wow, just watched the games. That roro guy is one DIRTY DIRTY zerg. The elephants have found new territory.
plus Leenock wins the battle of the chubbies. 
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Oh shit 2 big upsets here!!
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Glad to see Roro won. I always rooted for him just because he was so criminally underrated in BW by just about everybody.
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On August 10 2012 03:40 FataLe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 03:00 Fionn wrote:
Why wouldn't MC care about the games? No one knows what the grand prize for WCS World Championship will be. For all we know, Blizzard is going to unveil the biggest prize pool in history. They have the money to if they wanted, and if the grand prize is some insane amount of cash, you can beat MC would be kicking himself if he didn't make the finals. People always make excuses. Even ones that don't make too much sense. Happened when DRG lost to MC & then lost in GSTL. Happened when MVP's winrate fell off after his 4th championship. Happened after NesTea's 3rd. Happens after Naniwa loses to a random b team zerger. Thing is, people are always going to point every which way but themselves or the players themselves. It's human nature.
When SC2 picks up a little in Korea expect Korean's to focus primarily on Korean competition and there will be no excuse, now everyone is doing circles around a world because there is no reliable center. That is assuming Proleague/OSL retain at least 50% of their prestige at least.
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Sorry if this has been answered but where can I catch the VODs? Or watch a restream? Thanks in advance.
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On August 10 2012 03:44 Elroi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 02:09 Gorlin wrote:Wow, you see people try to be cute with immortals and warp prisms fairly often, but usually just when they're already dead or already won. I've never seen someone micro them as effectively as Squirtle did in that game 1, god damn that was insane. On August 10 2012 02:02 [N3O]r3d33m3r wrote:
nice to see two elephants brining home the bacon - Roro and Reality! I hate this, did you even read the article? In that original article, the "elephant" was supposed to be people like Flash, Fantasy, etc because since they are so talented, SC2's competition is a "farce" without their talent. Them losing when Roro and Reality win is counter evidence to that stupid article. When 200 new people start playing at the professional level, obviously some of them will be good and will win (Roro and Reality in this case). The article did not argue "when the BW players switch, there will be more competitors in the scene!", it argued "when S and A class BW players switch, current code S players will never win ever again". That is why that article was fucking dumb as hell. The only reason you see players like Reality and Roro do well is that all the stars (especially Jaedong) mostly prepares for PL. - reality and roro aren't that important in PL because they are not as good as the ace players. Besides, Flash and Fantasy have focused almost only on BW. Unlike Roro and Reality, they got far in the last BW starleagues. And that wasnt even the point of the article, the point was that there are 300 professional bw players who all have about the same skills as nestea, MC and MVP.
Wait what? RorO is not important in PL? Do you know he is one of the best players from Khan and play in a lot Ace match for them? Jaedong also prepares mostly for SC2 right now. You can say that he prepares mostly for the Ace match but still it means he has to practice SC2.
Saying RorO is not important in PL is kinda strange. Very very strange...
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On August 10 2012 05:23 IPA wrote:
Sorry if this has been answered but where can I catch the VODs? Or watch a restream? Thanks in advance.
They're at gomtv.net but will cost you money !
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On August 10 2012 05:43 Bibbit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 05:23 IPA wrote:
Sorry if this has been answered but where can I catch the VODs? Or watch a restream? Thanks in advance. They're at gomtv.net but will cost you money !
They will be free in a week I think, but only for premium atm.
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On August 10 2012 05:34 Veldril wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 03:44 Elroi wrote:On August 10 2012 02:09 Gorlin wrote:Wow, you see people try to be cute with immortals and warp prisms fairly often, but usually just when they're already dead or already won. I've never seen someone micro them as effectively as Squirtle did in that game 1, god damn that was insane. On August 10 2012 02:02 [N3O]r3d33m3r wrote:
nice to see two elephants brining home the bacon - Roro and Reality! I hate this, did you even read the article? In that original article, the "elephant" was supposed to be people like Flash, Fantasy, etc because since they are so talented, SC2's competition is a "farce" without their talent. Them losing when Roro and Reality win is counter evidence to that stupid article. When 200 new people start playing at the professional level, obviously some of them will be good and will win (Roro and Reality in this case). The article did not argue "when the BW players switch, there will be more competitors in the scene!", it argued "when S and A class BW players switch, current code S players will never win ever again". That is why that article was fucking dumb as hell. The only reason you see players like Reality and Roro do well is that all the stars (especially Jaedong) mostly prepares for PL. - reality and roro aren't that important in PL because they are not as good as the ace players. Besides, Flash and Fantasy have focused almost only on BW. Unlike Roro and Reality, they got far in the last BW starleagues. And that wasnt even the point of the article, the point was that there are 300 professional bw players who all have about the same skills as nestea, MC and MVP. Wait what? RorO is not important in PL? Do you know he is one of the best players from Khan and play in a lot Ace match for them? Jaedong also prepares mostly for SC2 right now. You can say that he prepares mostly for the Ace match but still it means he has to practice SC2. Saying RorO is not important in PL is kinda strange. Very very strange...
Don't worry, everyone who ever played Fantasy Proleague knows Roro is just important enough to fuck you if you put him on your antiteam
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On August 10 2012 05:23 IPA wrote:
Sorry if this has been answered but where can I catch the VODs? Or watch a restream? Thanks in advance.
Chinese VODs will be uploaded here http://sc2.plu.cn/vod/. Or you can wait a week for them to be free on GOMtv.
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On August 10 2012 00:05 sc2holar wrote:Dont think MC cares that much about the loss, he is pretty certainly going to be the highest earning player in WoL by the time HotS is released (MVP is the only player who is a threat but hes gonna need lots of time to recover from his surgery). in a couple of years, he will be the player most people think of when they look back at WoL, the Bosstoss who managed to claim the most money despite playing the statisticly least succesfull race. He is the only protoss in the top 10 earnings list, but he is the number one. http://sc2earnings.com/you can kinda tell by the way he is playing that he doesnt really "care", in the meaning that he has nothing left to prove. He still likes to win, but you can tell that he kinda lacks the motivation these days.
No, MVP will be the one everyone will think about when looking back at WoL, winning 4 GSLs+WCG, Blizzcon(or whatever) is much more important than going left and right around the world and winning some tournies(and placing good in some).
MVP was the most dominant player in 2011 and noone has never been as close as him to being a b....(eventhough he needed at least to do as well this year to even begin to think of it) whereas MC has never been a dominant player.
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On August 10 2012 03:44 Elroi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 02:09 Gorlin wrote:Wow, you see people try to be cute with immortals and warp prisms fairly often, but usually just when they're already dead or already won. I've never seen someone micro them as effectively as Squirtle did in that game 1, god damn that was insane. On August 10 2012 02:02 [N3O]r3d33m3r wrote:
nice to see two elephants brining home the bacon - Roro and Reality! I hate this, did you even read the article? In that original article, the "elephant" was supposed to be people like Flash, Fantasy, etc because since they are so talented, SC2's competition is a "farce" without their talent. Them losing when Roro and Reality win is counter evidence to that stupid article. When 200 new people start playing at the professional level, obviously some of them will be good and will win (Roro and Reality in this case). The article did not argue "when the BW players switch, there will be more competitors in the scene!", it argued "when S and A class BW players switch, current code S players will never win ever again". That is why that article was fucking dumb as hell. The only reason you see players like Reality and Roro do well is that all the stars (especially Jaedong) mostly prepares for PL. - reality and roro aren't that important in PL because they are not as good as the ace players. Besides, Flash and Fantasy have focused almost only on BW. Unlike Roro and Reality, they got far in the last BW starleagues. And that wasnt even the point of the article, the point was that there are 300 professional bw players who all have about the same skills as nestea, MC and MVP.
Isn't it funny how the words "potential to dominate", where the word 'dominate' clearly indicates becoming a top player*, is twisted to mean something wholly different? Yet we are the ones claimed not to have read the article.
Firstly, the elephant in the room never was that Flash could crush in a few weeks. It was that the Kespa players are the most talented and hardworking known group of players, and that since they are not playing, the competition is not what it could be. Yes, A- and S-class Kespa pros are expected to crush eventually. If some fail or if their domination takes longer than stated in the article (particularly now that it's a year later), the elephant still stands.
Secondly, it doesn't mean that Roro and Reality are necessarily better than Jaedong and Flash even if they won their matches. It is too early to say who the best Kespa pros are as their play is very volatile. In a month or two, you could see very different results among the Kespa players. Only thing we know is that the Kespa pros are starting to be good enough to be competetive with the GSL players, only after a few months of practise while playing two games. That is highly impressive and I must ask, if the roles were reversed, does anyone really think the GSL players could do the same?
* The article mentions 300 people, but if MVP for example was still playing BW, he would be included in that 300. Therefore, it makes no sense to say that there are 300 people who could dominate MVP. The word 'dominate' only makes sense if it means to dominate the rest of the scene, to be on the level of the top GSL players.
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Where do I watch?
I missed the games and I don't currently have subscribed to GTV
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On August 10 2012 05:58 Rhaegar_tar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 00:05 sc2holar wrote:Dont think MC cares that much about the loss, he is pretty certainly going to be the highest earning player in WoL by the time HotS is released (MVP is the only player who is a threat but hes gonna need lots of time to recover from his surgery). in a couple of years, he will be the player most people think of when they look back at WoL, the Bosstoss who managed to claim the most money despite playing the statisticly least succesfull race. He is the only protoss in the top 10 earnings list, but he is the number one. http://sc2earnings.com/you can kinda tell by the way he is playing that he doesnt really "care", in the meaning that he has nothing left to prove. He still likes to win, but you can tell that he kinda lacks the motivation these days. No, MVP will be the one everyone will think about when looking back at WoL, winning 4 GSLs+WCG, Blizzcon(or whatever) is much more important than going left and right around the world and winning some tournies(and placing good in some). MVP was the most dominant player in 2011 and noone has never been as close as him to being a b....(eventhough he needed at least to do as well this year to even begin to think of it) whereas MC has never been a dominant player.
Kind of agree. Who actually cares how much cash prize people won in BW? People will always remember Flash for his Starleague titles.
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On August 10 2012 06:05 OpTicalRH wrote:
Where do I watch?
I missed the games and I don't currently have subscribed to GTV
7 days after the games have aired the VODs will be free for GTV non-subscribers.
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On August 10 2012 06:13 zerious wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 05:58 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 10 2012 00:05 sc2holar wrote:Dont think MC cares that much about the loss, he is pretty certainly going to be the highest earning player in WoL by the time HotS is released (MVP is the only player who is a threat but hes gonna need lots of time to recover from his surgery). in a couple of years, he will be the player most people think of when they look back at WoL, the Bosstoss who managed to claim the most money despite playing the statisticly least succesfull race. He is the only protoss in the top 10 earnings list, but he is the number one. http://sc2earnings.com/you can kinda tell by the way he is playing that he doesnt really "care", in the meaning that he has nothing left to prove. He still likes to win, but you can tell that he kinda lacks the motivation these days. No, MVP will be the one everyone will think about when looking back at WoL, winning 4 GSLs+WCG, Blizzcon(or whatever) is much more important than going left and right around the world and winning some tournies(and placing good in some). MVP was the most dominant player in 2011 and noone has never been as close as him to being a b....(eventhough he needed at least to do as well this year to even begin to think of it) whereas MC has never been a dominant player. Kind of agree. Who actually cares how much cash prize people won in BW? People will always remember Flash for his Starleague titles.
While MC has won the most money he's earned it from placing top 3 in many many events instead of winning many important events. MC will certainly be remembered as the most successful Protoss in WOL, but I think Mvp will be remembered as the most successful player when you look at championships.
Unless of course MC wins two more GSL's between now and the end of WOL, who knows what will happen. I think HOTS will be released early next year so there's still some time left.
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On August 10 2012 05:58 Rhaegar_tar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 00:05 sc2holar wrote:Dont think MC cares that much about the loss, he is pretty certainly going to be the highest earning player in WoL by the time HotS is released (MVP is the only player who is a threat but hes gonna need lots of time to recover from his surgery). in a couple of years, he will be the player most people think of when they look back at WoL, the Bosstoss who managed to claim the most money despite playing the statisticly least succesfull race. He is the only protoss in the top 10 earnings list, but he is the number one. http://sc2earnings.com/you can kinda tell by the way he is playing that he doesnt really "care", in the meaning that he has nothing left to prove. He still likes to win, but you can tell that he kinda lacks the motivation these days. No, MVP will be the one everyone will think about when looking back at WoL, winning 4 GSLs+WCG, Blizzcon(or whatever) is much more important than going left and right around the world and winning some tournies(and placing good in some). MVP was the most dominant player in 2011 and noone has never been as close as him to being a b....(eventhough he needed at least to do as well this year to even begin to think of it) whereas MC has never been a dominant player.
MC has never been a dominant player? You don't end up winning the most prize money with the statistically least successful race in the overall history of competitive SC2 and end up being considered not a dominant player. MVP may have won the most high-profile tournaments, but MC has not only won the most prize money out of everyone, he has about as much prize money as all 5 Tosses under him put together (which is further testament to how impressive his achievements are relative to other players of his race). The fact is that MVP may have the most GSL wins and may have shown a longer period of dominance than any other player, but also plays the race that was the most successful for most of SC2's competitive lifespan (I'm talking about the big picture here, obviously Terran hasn't been dominating recently), and in my eyes, that correlation between personal success and overall Terran success dampens the impressiveness of MVP's achievements. I personally find it far more impressive when a player manages to stand out when no other players of his race even come close to him in achievements.
I realize this post might offend some Terran/MVP fans, but that's not my intent, and I apologize if I accidentally come off as disrespectful toward MVP. My main point, put most simply, is that the most dominant player of the most dominant race is less impressive than the most dominant player of the least dominant race (again, I'm talking the big picture here - Terran isn't dominating anymore, but in the overall history of SC2, Terran has indeed been the most dominant, and since we're evaluating MC and MVP based on the complete history of competitive WoL, I think it's fair to also look at race success in that same scope).
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On August 10 2012 01:55 kju wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 00:05 sc2holar wrote:Dont think MC cares that much about the loss, he is pretty certainly going to be the highest earning player in WoL by the time HotS is released (MVP is the only player who is a threat but hes gonna need lots of time to recover from his surgery). in a couple of years, he will be the player most people think of when they look back at WoL, the Bosstoss who managed to claim the most money despite playing the statisticly least succesfull race. He is the only protoss in the top 10 earnings list, but he is the number one. http://sc2earnings.com/you can kinda tell by the way he is playing that he doesnt really "care", in the meaning that he has nothing left to prove. He still likes to win, but you can tell that he kinda lacks the motivation these days. You want to defend MC, but all you do is making him look bad. It's an insult that he wouldn't care about these games, WCS is probably the most important tournament this year.
it was meant as subtle criticism (aka trying to not look like a mindless hater). i thought he played lazy and kinda stupid vs leenock, didnt look like he put in too much effort.
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On August 10 2012 06:32 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 05:58 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On August 10 2012 00:05 sc2holar wrote:Dont think MC cares that much about the loss, he is pretty certainly going to be the highest earning player in WoL by the time HotS is released (MVP is the only player who is a threat but hes gonna need lots of time to recover from his surgery). in a couple of years, he will be the player most people think of when they look back at WoL, the Bosstoss who managed to claim the most money despite playing the statisticly least succesfull race. He is the only protoss in the top 10 earnings list, but he is the number one. http://sc2earnings.com/you can kinda tell by the way he is playing that he doesnt really "care", in the meaning that he has nothing left to prove. He still likes to win, but you can tell that he kinda lacks the motivation these days. No, MVP will be the one everyone will think about when looking back at WoL, winning 4 GSLs+WCG, Blizzcon(or whatever) is much more important than going left and right around the world and winning some tournies(and placing good in some). MVP was the most dominant player in 2011 and noone has never been as close as him to being a b....(eventhough he needed at least to do as well this year to even begin to think of it) whereas MC has never been a dominant player. MC has never been a dominant player? You don't end up winning the most prize money with the statistically least successful race in the overall history of competitive SC2 and end up being considered not a dominant player. MVP may have won the most high-profile tournaments, but MC has not only won the most prize money out of everyone, he has about as much prize money as all 5 Tosses under him put together (which is further testament to how impressive his achievements are relative to other players of his race). The fact is that MVP may have the most GSL wins and may have shown a longer period of dominance than any other player, but also plays the race that was the most successful for most of SC2's competitive lifespan (I'm talking about the big picture here, obviously Terran hasn't been dominating recently), and in my eyes, that correlation between personal success and overall Terran success dampens the impressiveness of MVP's achievements. I personally find it far more impressive when a player manages to stand out when no other players of his race even come close to him in achievements. I realize this post might offend some Terran/MVP fans, but that's not my intent, and I apologize if I accidentally come off as disrespectful toward MVP. My main point, put most simply, is that the most dominant player of the most dominant race is less impressive than the most dominant player of the least dominant race (again, I'm talking the big picture here - Terran isn't dominating anymore, but in the overall history of SC2, Terran has indeed been the most dominant, and since we're evaluating MC and MVP based on the complete history of competitive WoL, I think it's fair to also look at race success in that same scope).
This.
What seperated boxer from the rest of T? what seperated savior from the rest of Z?
Race success is huge in determining just how great a player is. People tend to ignore that when MVP had the most dominant year in sc2 (2011) it was also the period of GOMTvT. That being said, MVP is an amazing player and has been the most successful in getting golds in high profile tourneys.
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EPT
