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MC the King of PvP! go MC I really want to see him win after getting eliminated of 2 other tournys 
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On July 20 2012 02:18 SeaSwift wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 01:25 casualman wrote:On July 20 2012 01:03 Rimak wrote:PvP is THE MOST UNFORGIVING matchup there is, people who think it's boring should spend couple of mins and read this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329091Basically PvP is about build, scouting and execution, if you screw it up at any point - you lose. What I really find fun (observing) is to try to predict when can a player die, beacuse it goes back and forth, even if players are not engaging. 1 additional tech can turn the whole engagement on it's head and best of all, there is no strict guideline HOW to get to endgame, like the other MU, for example: PvT If no cheeze P FE, T goes into 1-1-1 or any sort of FE. P goes Allin, or stays defensive and tech up to AoE, T harass protoss, tries to deny his 3. After 15 minutes MU turns around, T teches up, to have responce for all P tech, and tries to hold his bases. Lategame (haven't seen other compositions on pro lvl in lategame) MMMVG+Leftovers from oppening vs Protoss Deathball. Game is pretty even and mostly decided by positioning, engagement and good use of spells. Sometimes we see nukes. PvZ If no cheeze P goes FFE, Z goes 3 hatch with a slight possibility to some kind of 2 base allin or just muta. P pressures the Z to get on even footing in order to secure 3rd, or do any 2 base timing. Z goes 3 hatch allin to try and kill P or deny his 3rd. P gets any or both blink/colossi and pushes against zerg, if fails, defends and teches, zerg teches to spine-infestor-BL. Positional play, protoss tries either blink-kill BL or teches to MS and archon-toilet, zerg is pushing, or just slowly moving with spines. Protoss harasses income-production of zerg while constructing ultimate deathball (Archon, Colossus, Templar, Stalker, Zealot, Carrier, MS) and if is able, then usualy wins (only if mispositioned, or/and poor engagement). So PvP is the most undecide MU, love it. PvP is still the most boring matchup in existence. If the game goes beyond 15 minutes it is inevitably a colossi turtle war, no exceptions. You don't even need to watch the game to know how its gonna end, someone's going to screw up their positioning and the other guy a-moves him to death. Not very fun. MC vs Parting, MLG Arena. 200/200 Mothership + Void Rays vs 200/200 Mothership + HT to feedback the Mothership.
He was silly to say no exceptions, its obviously not a law of nature, but a general rule. Anyway, looking forward to seeing MC take another title, but PvP is still probably the worst and least developed matchup. RIP Reaver.
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On July 20 2012 01:17 Geegeez wrote:
OMG I didn't think MC would win with all the travel and the recent loss to Stephano! Congrats to Seed as well!
Id say he lost to Stephano only because
a) he was tired from all the jet lag
b) he was practicing for Drg, and was just doing nasl for pocket money
c) he purposely didnt reveal his strategies so that drg would have a hard time predicting what he may do
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Seed wins another Bo5 by being more resilient and letting his opponent choke to death. Frankly, both Symbol and Byun are probably better players, and the way both matches went down really shows the importance of mental fortitude with stakes as high as these. Impressive how Seed always kept it together, even when behind and on the verge of elimination, especially since it's the first time he advanced past the Ro16.
And about DRG, I kind of expected this to happen. He looked very shaky in his recent ZvPs - against Naniwa he should've won 3-1, but threw away the game on Ohana, got saved by Naniwa's move command on Entombed, and then nearly lost the final game too. Way too close for the best player in the world against someone who loses to foreigner Zergs at times. Then in the OSL group. he should've lost to San, but the latter forgot to research charge for his 3 base timing. I dunno what's up with that, his ZvP looked amazing as recent as the MLG Spring Championship. In any case, he kept playing kind of mediocre today, and that's nowhere near enough to beat MC.
Hopefully we don't get too many war of the worlds games in the finals.
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I have no desire to watch a PvP finals.
=/
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On July 20 2012 02:44 Greggle wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 02:18 SeaSwift wrote:On July 20 2012 01:25 casualman wrote:On July 20 2012 01:03 Rimak wrote:PvP is THE MOST UNFORGIVING matchup there is, people who think it's boring should spend couple of mins and read this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329091Basically PvP is about build, scouting and execution, if you screw it up at any point - you lose. What I really find fun (observing) is to try to predict when can a player die, beacuse it goes back and forth, even if players are not engaging. 1 additional tech can turn the whole engagement on it's head and best of all, there is no strict guideline HOW to get to endgame, like the other MU, for example: PvT If no cheeze P FE, T goes into 1-1-1 or any sort of FE. P goes Allin, or stays defensive and tech up to AoE, T harass protoss, tries to deny his 3. After 15 minutes MU turns around, T teches up, to have responce for all P tech, and tries to hold his bases. Lategame (haven't seen other compositions on pro lvl in lategame) MMMVG+Leftovers from oppening vs Protoss Deathball. Game is pretty even and mostly decided by positioning, engagement and good use of spells. Sometimes we see nukes. PvZ If no cheeze P goes FFE, Z goes 3 hatch with a slight possibility to some kind of 2 base allin or just muta. P pressures the Z to get on even footing in order to secure 3rd, or do any 2 base timing. Z goes 3 hatch allin to try and kill P or deny his 3rd. P gets any or both blink/colossi and pushes against zerg, if fails, defends and teches, zerg teches to spine-infestor-BL. Positional play, protoss tries either blink-kill BL or teches to MS and archon-toilet, zerg is pushing, or just slowly moving with spines. Protoss harasses income-production of zerg while constructing ultimate deathball (Archon, Colossus, Templar, Stalker, Zealot, Carrier, MS) and if is able, then usualy wins (only if mispositioned, or/and poor engagement). So PvP is the most undecide MU, love it. PvP is still the most boring matchup in existence. If the game goes beyond 15 minutes it is inevitably a colossi turtle war, no exceptions. You don't even need to watch the game to know how its gonna end, someone's going to screw up their positioning and the other guy a-moves him to death. Not very fun. MC vs Parting, MLG Arena. 200/200 Mothership + Void Rays vs 200/200 Mothership + HT to feedback the Mothership. He was silly to say no exceptions, its obviously not a law of nature, but a general rule. Anyway, looking forward to seeing MC take another title, but PvP is still probably the worst and least developed matchup. RIP Reaver.
lol not the worst, but probably the least developed.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
On July 20 2012 02:44 Incomplet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 01:17 Geegeez wrote:
OMG I didn't think MC would win with all the travel and the recent loss to Stephano! Congrats to Seed as well! Id say he lost to Stephano only because a) he was tired from all the jet lag b) he was practicing for Drg, and was just doing nasl for pocket money c) he purposely didnt reveal his strategies so that drg would have a hard time predicting what he may do
Or perhaps...
d) Stephano just outplayed him?
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On July 20 2012 02:57 Whatson wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 02:44 Greggle wrote:On July 20 2012 02:18 SeaSwift wrote:On July 20 2012 01:25 casualman wrote:On July 20 2012 01:03 Rimak wrote:PvP is THE MOST UNFORGIVING matchup there is, people who think it's boring should spend couple of mins and read this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329091Basically PvP is about build, scouting and execution, if you screw it up at any point - you lose. What I really find fun (observing) is to try to predict when can a player die, beacuse it goes back and forth, even if players are not engaging. 1 additional tech can turn the whole engagement on it's head and best of all, there is no strict guideline HOW to get to endgame, like the other MU, for example: PvT If no cheeze P FE, T goes into 1-1-1 or any sort of FE. P goes Allin, or stays defensive and tech up to AoE, T harass protoss, tries to deny his 3. After 15 minutes MU turns around, T teches up, to have responce for all P tech, and tries to hold his bases. Lategame (haven't seen other compositions on pro lvl in lategame) MMMVG+Leftovers from oppening vs Protoss Deathball. Game is pretty even and mostly decided by positioning, engagement and good use of spells. Sometimes we see nukes. PvZ If no cheeze P goes FFE, Z goes 3 hatch with a slight possibility to some kind of 2 base allin or just muta. P pressures the Z to get on even footing in order to secure 3rd, or do any 2 base timing. Z goes 3 hatch allin to try and kill P or deny his 3rd. P gets any or both blink/colossi and pushes against zerg, if fails, defends and teches, zerg teches to spine-infestor-BL. Positional play, protoss tries either blink-kill BL or teches to MS and archon-toilet, zerg is pushing, or just slowly moving with spines. Protoss harasses income-production of zerg while constructing ultimate deathball (Archon, Colossus, Templar, Stalker, Zealot, Carrier, MS) and if is able, then usualy wins (only if mispositioned, or/and poor engagement). So PvP is the most undecide MU, love it. PvP is still the most boring matchup in existence. If the game goes beyond 15 minutes it is inevitably a colossi turtle war, no exceptions. You don't even need to watch the game to know how its gonna end, someone's going to screw up their positioning and the other guy a-moves him to death. Not very fun. MC vs Parting, MLG Arena. 200/200 Mothership + Void Rays vs 200/200 Mothership + HT to feedback the Mothership. He was silly to say no exceptions, its obviously not a law of nature, but a general rule. Anyway, looking forward to seeing MC take another title, but PvP is still probably the worst and least developed matchup. RIP Reaver. lol not the worst, but probably the least developed.
Well TvT and TvZ are pretty much the best PvZ isn't bad, the only one you could really argue being worse than PvP is ZvZ, but either way there's a huge dropoff between those two and the next one.
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I didn't get to watch the games, but what was the general build mc did. I saw the tweet and was wondering what it was
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On July 20 2012 03:00 Greggle wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 02:57 Whatson wrote:On July 20 2012 02:44 Greggle wrote:On July 20 2012 02:18 SeaSwift wrote:On July 20 2012 01:25 casualman wrote:On July 20 2012 01:03 Rimak wrote:PvP is THE MOST UNFORGIVING matchup there is, people who think it's boring should spend couple of mins and read this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329091Basically PvP is about build, scouting and execution, if you screw it up at any point - you lose. What I really find fun (observing) is to try to predict when can a player die, beacuse it goes back and forth, even if players are not engaging. 1 additional tech can turn the whole engagement on it's head and best of all, there is no strict guideline HOW to get to endgame, like the other MU, for example: PvT If no cheeze P FE, T goes into 1-1-1 or any sort of FE. P goes Allin, or stays defensive and tech up to AoE, T harass protoss, tries to deny his 3. After 15 minutes MU turns around, T teches up, to have responce for all P tech, and tries to hold his bases. Lategame (haven't seen other compositions on pro lvl in lategame) MMMVG+Leftovers from oppening vs Protoss Deathball. Game is pretty even and mostly decided by positioning, engagement and good use of spells. Sometimes we see nukes. PvZ If no cheeze P goes FFE, Z goes 3 hatch with a slight possibility to some kind of 2 base allin or just muta. P pressures the Z to get on even footing in order to secure 3rd, or do any 2 base timing. Z goes 3 hatch allin to try and kill P or deny his 3rd. P gets any or both blink/colossi and pushes against zerg, if fails, defends and teches, zerg teches to spine-infestor-BL. Positional play, protoss tries either blink-kill BL or teches to MS and archon-toilet, zerg is pushing, or just slowly moving with spines. Protoss harasses income-production of zerg while constructing ultimate deathball (Archon, Colossus, Templar, Stalker, Zealot, Carrier, MS) and if is able, then usualy wins (only if mispositioned, or/and poor engagement). So PvP is the most undecide MU, love it. PvP is still the most boring matchup in existence. If the game goes beyond 15 minutes it is inevitably a colossi turtle war, no exceptions. You don't even need to watch the game to know how its gonna end, someone's going to screw up their positioning and the other guy a-moves him to death. Not very fun. MC vs Parting, MLG Arena. 200/200 Mothership + Void Rays vs 200/200 Mothership + HT to feedback the Mothership. He was silly to say no exceptions, its obviously not a law of nature, but a general rule. Anyway, looking forward to seeing MC take another title, but PvP is still probably the worst and least developed matchup. RIP Reaver. lol not the worst, but probably the least developed. Well TvT and TvZ are pretty much the best PvZ isn't bad, the only one you could really argue being worse than PvP is ZvZ, but either way there's a huge dropoff between those two and the next one.
To me personally, it goes prepatch TvZ - TvT - PvP - TvZ - PvZ - ZvZ
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On July 20 2012 02:44 Incomplet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 01:17 Geegeez wrote:
OMG I didn't think MC would win with all the travel and the recent loss to Stephano! Congrats to Seed as well! Id say he lost to Stephano only because a) he was tired from all the jet lag b) he was practicing for Drg, and was just doing nasl for pocket money c) he purposely didnt reveal his strategies so that drg would have a hard time predicting what he may do
$30 000 is pocket money now?
Given that winning GSL is $42000, I really really don't think that MC would have purposefully not brought his A game to NASL.
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On July 20 2012 02:44 Incomplet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 01:17 Geegeez wrote:
OMG I didn't think MC would win with all the travel and the recent loss to Stephano! Congrats to Seed as well! Id say he lost to Stephano only because a) he was tired from all the jet lag b) he was practicing for Drg, and was just doing nasl for pocket money c) he purposely didnt reveal his strategies so that drg would have a hard time predicting what he may do
Lol MC didnt use new strategies he played like he allways do. His build on Ohana and Daybreak was identical to a build he did vs Stephano. Standard Stargate (1 Void ray ~4 Phoenix) into 3 Immortals into Colossus 3 base timing. Stephano just crushed it DRG did not
Its hillarious the excuses some people do lol. Stephano got the best ZvP´ in the world and you could really see the difference between him and DRG in that serie
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On July 20 2012 02:51 Toadvine wrote:
Seed wins another Bo5 by being more resilient and letting his opponent choke to death. Frankly, both Symbol and Byun are probably better players, and the way both matches went down really shows the importance of mental fortitude with stakes as high as these. Impressive how Seed always kept it together, even when behind and on the verge of elimination, especially since it's the first time he advanced past the Ro16.
And about DRG, I kind of expected this to happen. He looked very shaky in his recent ZvPs - against Naniwa he should've won 3-1, but threw away the game on Ohana, got saved by Naniwa's move command on Entombed, and then nearly lost the final game too. Way too close for the best player in the world against someone who loses to foreigner Zergs at times. Then in the OSL group. he should've lost to San, but the latter forgot to research charge for his 3 base timing. I dunno what's up with that, his ZvP looked amazing as recent as the MLG Spring Championship. In any case, he kept playing kind of mediocre today, and that's nowhere near enough to beat MC.
Hopefully we don't get too many war of the worlds games in the finals.
Well, you could argue that Seed choked in game 2 and 3. He lost to a basic hellion drop and then to a 2 pronge hellion/marine push at a pretty standard timing and knowing hellions were out on the map. The entire series was basically Byun applying heavy pressure and if Seed defended well he would win. He actually didn't defend well in game 4 but Byun threw the game with the scvs pulls. So it would be hard to argue that Byun is a better player.
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On July 20 2012 03:21 Benjamin99 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 02:44 Incomplet wrote:On July 20 2012 01:17 Geegeez wrote:
OMG I didn't think MC would win with all the travel and the recent loss to Stephano! Congrats to Seed as well! Id say he lost to Stephano only because a) he was tired from all the jet lag b) he was practicing for Drg, and was just doing nasl for pocket money c) he purposely didnt reveal his strategies so that drg would have a hard time predicting what he may do Lol MC didnt use new strategies he played like he allways do. His build on Ohana and Daybreak was identical to a build he did vs Stephano. Standard Stargate (1 Void ray ~4 Phoenix) into 3 Immortals into Colossus 3 base timing. Stephano just crushed it DRG did not Its hillarious the excuses some people do lol. Stephano got the best ZvP´ in the world and you could really see the difference between him and DRG in that serie
Actually, since Syz beat mana 2-0 and mana beat Stephano 2-0, Syz has the best ZvP. You could really see the difference between Syz and Stephano from those series.
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ok is stephano pvz seriously better than DRG? cause stephano STOMPED mc at nasl. just STOMPED.
i am in awe
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On July 20 2012 03:35 fishjie wrote:
ok is stephano pvz seriously better than DRG? cause stephano STOMPED mc at nasl. just STOMPED.
i am in awe
Or maybe DRG just plain sucked last night? I feared that this would happen...
And what exactly are you in awe of again?
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MC 4-2 Seed, Bosstoss cements his spot as one of the top 3 players to ever play WOL.
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HOLY SHIT PVP FINALS!! HUHUHU! PROTOSS CHAMPION AT LAST!
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On July 20 2012 03:21 Benjamin99 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 02:44 Incomplet wrote:On July 20 2012 01:17 Geegeez wrote:
OMG I didn't think MC would win with all the travel and the recent loss to Stephano! Congrats to Seed as well! Id say he lost to Stephano only because a) he was tired from all the jet lag b) he was practicing for Drg, and was just doing nasl for pocket money c) he purposely didnt reveal his strategies so that drg would have a hard time predicting what he may do Lol MC didnt use new strategies he played like he allways do. His build on Ohana and Daybreak was identical to a build he did vs Stephano. Standard Stargate (1 Void ray ~4 Phoenix) into 3 Immortals into Colossus 3 base timing. Stephano just crushed it DRG did not Its hillarious the excuses some people do lol. Stephano got the best ZvP´ in the world and you could really see the difference between him and DRG in that serie
Calm down Stephano fan-boy, we all know hes amazing and stuff but you can't say hes better than MC or DRG. Just stop.
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EPT
