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Ah good, I'm sure there have been 30 pages of discussion on Stephano.
Poor MC and Seed. Win games, don't even get discussed in thread dedicated to those games.
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On July 21 2012 13:41 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 10:55 Niteblade_ wrote:
Just want to add my 2 cents on all the debate going about vaility of GSl format vs other tournament and stephano vs the koreans ect....
First of all, I think it is sick that stephano is a foreighner that can take games off of koreans consistently(or so it seems at this point). Its great for the starcraft community for it to not be dominated by koreans (imo). (I realise im kinda being biased or racist or whatever you wanna call it by saying its stephano vs koreans, but such is the way it is)
However, this hasn't been proven in the GSL arena where the level of preparation is so huge for your oppenents weaknesses, that strategy and mind games play a huge role (not just mechanics). I'd like to draw a comparison between Stephano and MKP. Both are ladder beasts, and both perform extremely well in endurance type tournies (MLG, NASL, IPL's). However, MKP has failed to grab that victory in the GSL, 3 times now. And twice been robbed by that exact thing that is lacking from 3 day tournies: Preparation. MVP has dismantled MKP twice in the finals. And now MKP hasn't made it out of the R16 in how many seasons? Not to put any player down, they are all amazing, but just pointing out here the differences. And back when MKP won both winter arena's (or w/e it was) he was being hyped as the best for that time. Still couldn't make it out of the R16. And half a year ago when stephano played in the blizzard cup, MVP gutted stephano's TvZ so hard. (I realise stephano's TvZ has come leaps and bounds ahead since then)
All I'm trying to say with my rambling comparisons is that its definately takes different skill sets to be able to dominate in other tournament formats. However, from koreans that are code S to 3 day style tournaments, they seem to dominate them, but masters (in the foreigner scene) cannot reverse that in the GSL. That is why people say the GSL will be the ultimate test for Stephano, which I agree with (and am looking very forward to). There are so many other factors at play given a week of preparation.
TL;DR I think stephano is the top foreigner atm and one of the best in the world, but it will be interesting to see how well he performs in the hardest SC2 tournament environment. As such i can't say "oh he is the best at PvZ" because he hasn't had to play against anyone who has studied his style (and if you look the last time that semi happened Mana ran him over). So it will be interesting, for example, to see him play MC or Squirtle (2 of the top PvZers) in the GSL format. I can turn this all around and say 40 games in three days vs varying oponents is far more indicative of skill than lucking out with planned BOs. But whatever everyone has thier own opinion. Bottom line is bank accounts that tells results of play and Stephano is number 3 this year so I have to rank him number 3.
You can't turn that around. I explained in my post how people who are good in the 40 games in 3 day format cannot compete (so far) in the GSL format, but those good in the GSL format (DRG, MKP, MMA, MVP) can regualarly take tournaments that are 40 games in 3 days. Everyone has there opinion I agree, but explain that differential then?
Also ranking players by earnings is kinda meh....Like someone mentioned, that makes Lucifron better than most of code S by that logic....
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On July 21 2012 22:48 Niteblade_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 13:41 tdt wrote:On July 21 2012 10:55 Niteblade_ wrote:
Just want to add my 2 cents on all the debate going about vaility of GSl format vs other tournament and stephano vs the koreans ect....
First of all, I think it is sick that stephano is a foreighner that can take games off of koreans consistently(or so it seems at this point). Its great for the starcraft community for it to not be dominated by koreans (imo). (I realise im kinda being biased or racist or whatever you wanna call it by saying its stephano vs koreans, but such is the way it is)
However, this hasn't been proven in the GSL arena where the level of preparation is so huge for your oppenents weaknesses, that strategy and mind games play a huge role (not just mechanics). I'd like to draw a comparison between Stephano and MKP. Both are ladder beasts, and both perform extremely well in endurance type tournies (MLG, NASL, IPL's). However, MKP has failed to grab that victory in the GSL, 3 times now. And twice been robbed by that exact thing that is lacking from 3 day tournies: Preparation. MVP has dismantled MKP twice in the finals. And now MKP hasn't made it out of the R16 in how many seasons? Not to put any player down, they are all amazing, but just pointing out here the differences. And back when MKP won both winter arena's (or w/e it was) he was being hyped as the best for that time. Still couldn't make it out of the R16. And half a year ago when stephano played in the blizzard cup, MVP gutted stephano's TvZ so hard. (I realise stephano's TvZ has come leaps and bounds ahead since then)
All I'm trying to say with my rambling comparisons is that its definately takes different skill sets to be able to dominate in other tournament formats. However, from koreans that are code S to 3 day style tournaments, they seem to dominate them, but masters (in the foreigner scene) cannot reverse that in the GSL. That is why people say the GSL will be the ultimate test for Stephano, which I agree with (and am looking very forward to). There are so many other factors at play given a week of preparation.
TL;DR I think stephano is the top foreigner atm and one of the best in the world, but it will be interesting to see how well he performs in the hardest SC2 tournament environment. As such i can't say "oh he is the best at PvZ" because he hasn't had to play against anyone who has studied his style (and if you look the last time that semi happened Mana ran him over). So it will be interesting, for example, to see him play MC or Squirtle (2 of the top PvZers) in the GSL format. I can turn this all around and say 40 games in three days vs varying oponents is far more indicative of skill than lucking out with planned BOs. But whatever everyone has thier own opinion. Bottom line is bank accounts that tells results of play and Stephano is number 3 this year so I have to rank him number 3. You can't turn that around. I explained in my post how people who are good in the 40 games in 3 day format cannot compete (so far) in the GSL format, but those good in the GSL format (DRG, MKP, MMA, MVP) can regualarly take tournaments that are 40 games in 3 days. Everyone has there opinion I agree, but explain that differential then? Also ranking players by earnings is kinda meh....Like someone mentioned, that makes Lucifron better than most of code S by that logic....
Who are those players who are good in 40 games in 3 day format but can't compete in gsl?
As far as Stephano goes, this idea that he would get shred in Korea because people would practice for him is based on no evidence whatsoever.
In the last 3 month, Hero, Polt, Alicia,ganzi (twice),violet, ryung and MKP were informed weeks in advance that they would have to play against Stephano and except for MKP at ipl4, none of them won.
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Australia18228 Posts
On July 21 2012 23:04 Diavlo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 22:48 Niteblade_ wrote:On July 21 2012 13:41 tdt wrote:On July 21 2012 10:55 Niteblade_ wrote:
- snip - Who are those players who are good in 40 games in 3 day format but can't compete in gsl? As far as Stephano goes, this idea that he would get shred in Korea because people would practice for him is based on no evidence whatsoever. In the last 3 month, Hero, Polt, Alicia,ganzi (twice),violet, ryung and MKP were informed weeks in advance that they would have to play against Stephano and except for MKP at ipl4, none of them won.
From MLG Spring Championship Top 24 (all pool players):
PuMa (5/6th MLG, Code A prelims. Ro2 GSL)
Inori (7/8th MLG, Code A prelims. Ro4 GSL)
Monster (11th MLG, Ro48 Code A GSL)
Golden (17-20th MLG, No participation S3 - Code A Ro48 S2)
Rain (17-20th MLG, Code A prelims Ro16 GSL)
Lucky (17-20th MLG, Code A prelims. Ro4 GSL)
Dream (17-20th MLG, Code A prelims. Ro2 GSL)
edit: Another big part of the GSL format is the duration of one season. One day of being on-form, can result in Alicia taking 2nd place or Heart taking 3rd in MLG, while a whole month or two of playing extremely well is required win a GSL championship.
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On July 21 2012 23:04 Diavlo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 22:48 Niteblade_ wrote:On July 21 2012 13:41 tdt wrote:On July 21 2012 10:55 Niteblade_ wrote:
Just want to add my 2 cents on all the debate going about vaility of GSl format vs other tournament and stephano vs the koreans ect....
First of all, I think it is sick that stephano is a foreighner that can take games off of koreans consistently(or so it seems at this point). Its great for the starcraft community for it to not be dominated by koreans (imo). (I realise im kinda being biased or racist or whatever you wanna call it by saying its stephano vs koreans, but such is the way it is)
However, this hasn't been proven in the GSL arena where the level of preparation is so huge for your oppenents weaknesses, that strategy and mind games play a huge role (not just mechanics). I'd like to draw a comparison between Stephano and MKP. Both are ladder beasts, and both perform extremely well in endurance type tournies (MLG, NASL, IPL's). However, MKP has failed to grab that victory in the GSL, 3 times now. And twice been robbed by that exact thing that is lacking from 3 day tournies: Preparation. MVP has dismantled MKP twice in the finals. And now MKP hasn't made it out of the R16 in how many seasons? Not to put any player down, they are all amazing, but just pointing out here the differences. And back when MKP won both winter arena's (or w/e it was) he was being hyped as the best for that time. Still couldn't make it out of the R16. And half a year ago when stephano played in the blizzard cup, MVP gutted stephano's TvZ so hard. (I realise stephano's TvZ has come leaps and bounds ahead since then)
All I'm trying to say with my rambling comparisons is that its definately takes different skill sets to be able to dominate in other tournament formats. However, from koreans that are code S to 3 day style tournaments, they seem to dominate them, but masters (in the foreigner scene) cannot reverse that in the GSL. That is why people say the GSL will be the ultimate test for Stephano, which I agree with (and am looking very forward to). There are so many other factors at play given a week of preparation.
TL;DR I think stephano is the top foreigner atm and one of the best in the world, but it will be interesting to see how well he performs in the hardest SC2 tournament environment. As such i can't say "oh he is the best at PvZ" because he hasn't had to play against anyone who has studied his style (and if you look the last time that semi happened Mana ran him over). So it will be interesting, for example, to see him play MC or Squirtle (2 of the top PvZers) in the GSL format. I can turn this all around and say 40 games in three days vs varying oponents is far more indicative of skill than lucking out with planned BOs. But whatever everyone has thier own opinion. Bottom line is bank accounts that tells results of play and Stephano is number 3 this year so I have to rank him number 3. You can't turn that around. I explained in my post how people who are good in the 40 games in 3 day format cannot compete (so far) in the GSL format, but those good in the GSL format (DRG, MKP, MMA, MVP) can regualarly take tournaments that are 40 games in 3 days. Everyone has there opinion I agree, but explain that differential then? Also ranking players by earnings is kinda meh....Like someone mentioned, that makes Lucifron better than most of code S by that logic.... Who are those players who are good in 40 games in 3 day format but can't compete in gsl? As far as Stephano goes, this idea that he would get shred in Korea because people would practice for him is based on no evidence whatsoever. In the last 3 month, Hero, Polt, Alicia,ganzi (twice),violet, ryung and MKP were informed weeks in advance that they would have to play against Stephano and except for MKP at ipl4, none of them won.
Bomber (and MKP to a certain degree) were both killers at online cups and MLG like formats, but they couldn't win it all in a GSL booth.
Polt and MVP used the same blue-flame hellion (Polt used marauders, MVP marines) timing against Stephano. Worked wonders.
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On July 21 2012 23:04 Diavlo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 22:48 Niteblade_ wrote:On July 21 2012 13:41 tdt wrote:On July 21 2012 10:55 Niteblade_ wrote:
Just want to add my 2 cents on all the debate going about vaility of GSl format vs other tournament and stephano vs the koreans ect....
First of all, I think it is sick that stephano is a foreighner that can take games off of koreans consistently(or so it seems at this point). Its great for the starcraft community for it to not be dominated by koreans (imo). (I realise im kinda being biased or racist or whatever you wanna call it by saying its stephano vs koreans, but such is the way it is)
However, this hasn't been proven in the GSL arena where the level of preparation is so huge for your oppenents weaknesses, that strategy and mind games play a huge role (not just mechanics). I'd like to draw a comparison between Stephano and MKP. Both are ladder beasts, and both perform extremely well in endurance type tournies (MLG, NASL, IPL's). However, MKP has failed to grab that victory in the GSL, 3 times now. And twice been robbed by that exact thing that is lacking from 3 day tournies: Preparation. MVP has dismantled MKP twice in the finals. And now MKP hasn't made it out of the R16 in how many seasons? Not to put any player down, they are all amazing, but just pointing out here the differences. And back when MKP won both winter arena's (or w/e it was) he was being hyped as the best for that time. Still couldn't make it out of the R16. And half a year ago when stephano played in the blizzard cup, MVP gutted stephano's TvZ so hard. (I realise stephano's TvZ has come leaps and bounds ahead since then)
All I'm trying to say with my rambling comparisons is that its definately takes different skill seots to be able to dominate in other tournament formats. However, from koreans that are code S to 3 day style tournaments, they seem to dominate them, but masters (in the foreigner scene) cannot reverse that in the GSL. That is why people say the GSL will be the ultimate test for Stephano, which I agree with (and am looking very forward to). There are so many other factors at play given a week of preparation.
TL;DR I think stephano is the top foreigner atm and one of the best in the world, but it will be interesting to see how well he performs in the hardest SC2 tournament environment. As such i can't say "oh he is the best at PvZ" because he hasn't had to play against anyone who has studied his style (and if you look the last time that semi happened Mana ran him over). So it will be interesting, for example, to see him play MC or Squirtle (2 of the top PvZers) in the GSL format. I can turn this all around and say 40 games in three days vs varying oponents is far more indicative of skill than lucking out with planned BOs. But whatever everyone has thier own opinion. Bottom line is bank accounts that tells results of play and Stephano is number 3 this year s rank him number 3. You can't turn that around. I explained in my post how people who are good in the 40 games in 3 day format cannot compete (so far) in the GSL format, but those good in the GSL format (DRG, MKP, MMA, MVP) can regualarly take tournaments that are 40 games in 3 days. Everyone has there opinion I agree, but explain that differential then? Also ranking players by earnings is kinda meh....Like someone mentioned, that makes Lucifron better than most of code S by that logic.... Who are those players who are good in 40 games in 3 day format but can't compete in gsl? As far as Stephano goes, this idea that he would get shred in Korea because people would practice for him is based on no evidence whatsoever. In the last 3 month, Hero, Polt, Alicia,ganzi (twice),violet, ryung and MKP were informed weeks in advance that they would have to play against Stephano and except for MKP at ipl4, none of them won.
It you had read my first post, you would see that I mentioned that MVP (known for his preparation). Gutted atephaon he only time he played in the gsl, with a timug attack that destroyed his timing. I'm not denying that stephano is amazing, but allim trying to point out is that the gsl will be either a huge validation of stepganos strength or not. Because one series vs mc "omg, best ago in the world. And then next tournie? Loses to oz.... Anyways, even if it is weeks in advance, preparing for piool play vs a bo5 for example is a completely different matter. And as someone brought up, big difference hetwween being hot for a day or being hot for a month and a half (avg length of Gao season)
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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That's greet
User was temp banned for this post.
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Why on earth did you bump this?! :S
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haha happy birthday i guess?
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EPT
