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On July 20 2012 03:33 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 03:21 Benjamin99 wrote:On July 20 2012 02:44 Incomplet wrote:On July 20 2012 01:17 Geegeez wrote:
OMG I didn't think MC would win with all the travel and the recent loss to Stephano! Congrats to Seed as well! Id say he lost to Stephano only because a) he was tired from all the jet lag b) he was practicing for Drg, and was just doing nasl for pocket money c) he purposely didnt reveal his strategies so that drg would have a hard time predicting what he may do Lol MC didnt use new strategies he played like he allways do. His build on Ohana and Daybreak was identical to a build he did vs Stephano. Standard Stargate (1 Void ray ~4 Phoenix) into 3 Immortals into Colossus 3 base timing. Stephano just crushed it DRG did not Its hillarious the excuses some people do lol. Stephano got the best ZvP´ in the world and you could really see the difference between him and DRG in that serie Actually, since Syz beat mana 2-0 and mana beat Stephano 2-0, Syz has the best ZvP. You could really see the difference between Syz and Stephano from those series.
These posts make me so incredibly angry everytime i have to read them -.-
A foreigner is the best ZvPler in the world and one of the best players overall, DEAL WITH IT!
My gosh! DRG is struggling against well executed Protoss all-ins from time to time, he even lost against Socke, i mean Socke is good, really underrated but not a player he should lose to.
Overall DRG is probably the best player in the world.
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On July 21 2012 03:19 revel8 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 17:53 Figgy wrote:
The reason MC lost to Stephano was the maps. Shakuras plateau, Bel'shir Beach, Dual Sight, Shattered Temple? Seriously? Half the pool was 2 base all in or die. If we had GSL maps that aren't absolutely retarded for PvZ MC would have stomped Stephano so hard no one would ever be talking about him again. Stop making excuses for MC losing. Shattered Temple, Dual Sight? These maps were not even played in that series. Stephano did not play a single game on those maps at NASL Finals. MC lost on Bel'Shir not due to the map, but because he attacked prematurely after getting an economic lead from DT harrass. MC attacked when he did not have enough sentry energy and had 35 army supply less than Stephano. MC went onto creep, ran out of forcefields and got overrun by Roaches. In Shakuras, MC took a third base and he brought all his sentries (bar one) across to his third base. Stephano saw this and attacked the natural and MC did not have the forcefields or army to hold him back. Stephano himself said that if MC had split his army better it would have helped him. MC got outplayed in all the games he lost. Stephano was ruthless and exploited all of MC's mistakes. Blaming it on maps is just wrong. Stephano played the series much better and convincingly won a Bo7.
It actually makes a huge difference. Even if the maps aren't played in a series, the Protoss has to plan for them being picked by the Zerg, which oftentimes leads to a lot of risky play. You could see it in the way every Protoss played PvZ at NASL, they all looked shaky and took a lot of risks. Even Idra (Idra!) said so on ItG, and brought up Puzzle vs Ret as the best example - the one proper macro game on Daybreak between them, Puzzle won in a dominating fashion; the rest of the series he did risky builds and all-ins.
Also, saying MC messed up defending his third on Shakuras is like saying Idra messed up defending against MVP's 2 rax on close pos Metalopolis. You can't normally take a third base on Shakuras, Dual Sight or Bel'shir in PvZ. MC got a major advantage on Bel'Shir against Stephano, and still couldn't secure a third.
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On July 20 2012 17:53 Figgy wrote:
The reason MC lost to Stephano was the maps. Shakuras plateau, Bel'shir Beach, Dual Sight, Shattered Temple? Seriously? Half the pool was 2 base all in or die. If we had GSL maps that aren't absolutely retarded for PvZ MC would have stomped Stephano so hard no one would ever be talking about him again.
Yeah exactly like he stomped him in MLG or in RBB before that...oh wait, you're completely wrong.
Stephano beat Hero and MC legit, DRG lost to Hero and MC legit...MC thinks Stephano is top 3 zerg in the world.
Your argument(or hate) is irrelevant.
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On July 21 2012 03:20 Incomplet wrote:
Lol @ all the Stephano fanboys. He already said in an interview he is going to gsl in a few months. I cant wait for all the fangirls to stfu when he gets stomped. Oh and lets not forget the kespa guys coming out soon...Flash already looked beastly at MLG last month when he is still playing Starcraft 1.
Yeah no:
1. Jaedong is inspired by Stephano's play.
2.MC said Stephano was top 3 zerg in the world.
3.MKP, Polt and (MVP?) said Stephano was code S level and a genius.
4.Most studied foreigner, despite him not playing in this GSL you seem to love.
5.He's 2000$ behind MC in the total earnings in 2012, the third player in teh world in those regards.
Yeah, everything indicates he's gonna get stomped there.
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On July 21 2012 03:28 Toadvine wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 03:19 revel8 wrote:On July 20 2012 17:53 Figgy wrote:
The reason MC lost to Stephano was the maps. Shakuras plateau, Bel'shir Beach, Dual Sight, Shattered Temple? Seriously? Half the pool was 2 base all in or die. If we had GSL maps that aren't absolutely retarded for PvZ MC would have stomped Stephano so hard no one would ever be talking about him again. Stop making excuses for MC losing. Shattered Temple, Dual Sight? These maps were not even played in that series. Stephano did not play a single game on those maps at NASL Finals. MC lost on Bel'Shir not due to the map, but because he attacked prematurely after getting an economic lead from DT harrass. MC attacked when he did not have enough sentry energy and had 35 army supply less than Stephano. MC went onto creep, ran out of forcefields and got overrun by Roaches. In Shakuras, MC took a third base and he brought all his sentries (bar one) across to his third base. Stephano saw this and attacked the natural and MC did not have the forcefields or army to hold him back. Stephano himself said that if MC had split his army better it would have helped him. MC got outplayed in all the games he lost. Stephano was ruthless and exploited all of MC's mistakes. Blaming it on maps is just wrong. Stephano played the series much better and convincingly won a Bo7. It actually makes a huge difference. Even if the maps aren't played in a series, the Protoss has to plan for them being picked by the Zerg, which oftentimes leads to a lot of risky play. You could see it in the way every Protoss played PvZ at NASL, they all looked shaky and took a lot of risks. Even Idra (Idra!) said so on ItG, and brought up Puzzle vs Ret as the best example - the one proper macro game on Daybreak between them, Puzzle won in a dominating fashion; the rest of the series he did risky builds and all-ins. Also, saying MC messed up defending his third on Shakuras is like saying Idra messed up defending against MVP's 2 rax on close pos Metalopolis. You can't normally take a third base on Shakuras, Dual Sight or Bel'shir in PvZ. MC got a major advantage on Bel'Shir against Stephano, and still couldn't secure a third.
On Bel'shir, MC made a mistake in choosing to attack before securing a third. He underestimated the size of Stephano's army which although not very well upgraded was still extremely large. MC had got ahead through DT's but still did not have a very large army himself. Go back and watch the VOD and you can see he attacked at an unwise moment. With more forcefields it could have been different. Rotterdam made a point to note as MC advanced, that MC only had 3 sentries and not a lot of sentry energy. MC is a very aggressive player and this usually works out for him, but in this game it would have been wiser to sit back and expand or wait and build a bigger army before pushing. MC did not even try and take a third until he had lost that major battle at the bottom of Stephano's natural ramp, and by then it was too late.
MC is the most consistent player in SC2 history, his prize money proves that. However he is like all players, and he loses games against other top players. Making excuses for when this happens is something that MC himself does not do. The map pool was good enough for MC to beat Puma and Ret without dropping a game, so it was obviously not too hard for MC.
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Hmm, at the same time I think MC is pretty damn good player but I also feel that he is really cocky and doesn't really respect any of his opponents. Typically that is something that foreigners get blaimed for but I feel MC is more fitting in that gategory. So that is why I don't really enjoy seeing him win games/tournaments as opposed to other players. Anyone who feels otherwise, please convince me so I can actually enjoy seeing MC win.
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MC is the most consistent player in SC2 history, his prize money proves that.
Proves he is a top korean player who gets paid to travel a lot.
Most consistent player is probably MVP, or Nestea.
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MC and Seed win in GSL ---> discuss Stephano forever
LRs are becoming 2011 IdrA era again, sigh.
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Just want to add my 2 cents on all the debate going about vaility of GSl format vs other tournament and stephano vs the koreans ect....
First of all, I think it is sick that stephano is a foreighner that can take games off of koreans consistently(or so it seems at this point). Its great for the starcraft community for it to not be dominated by koreans (imo). (I realise im kinda being biased or racist or whatever you wanna call it by saying its stephano vs koreans, but such is the way it is)
However, this hasn't been proven in the GSL arena where the level of preparation is so huge for your oppenents weaknesses, that strategy and mind games play a huge role (not just mechanics). I'd like to draw a comparison between Stephano and MKP. Both are ladder beasts, and both perform extremely well in endurance type tournies (MLG, NASL, IPL's). However, MKP has failed to grab that victory in the GSL, 3 times now. And twice been robbed by that exact thing that is lacking from 3 day tournies: Preparation. MVP has dismantled MKP twice in the finals. And now MKP hasn't made it out of the R16 in how many seasons? Not to put any player down, they are all amazing, but just pointing out here the differences. And back when MKP won both winter arena's (or w/e it was) he was being hyped as the best for that time. Still couldn't make it out of the R16. And half a year ago when stephano played in the blizzard cup, MVP gutted stephano's TvZ so hard. (I realise stephano's TvZ has come leaps and bounds ahead since then)
All I'm trying to say with my rambling comparisons is that its definately takes different skill sets to be able to dominate in other tournament formats. However, from koreans that are code S to 3 day style tournaments, they seem to dominate them, but masters (in the foreigner scene) cannot reverse that in the GSL. That is why people say the GSL will be the ultimate test for Stephano, which I agree with (and am looking very forward to). There are so many other factors at play given a week of preparation.
TL;DR I think stephano is the top foreigner atm and one of the best in the world, but it will be interesting to see how well he performs in the hardest SC2 tournament environment. As such i can't say "oh he is the best at PvZ" because he hasn't had to play against anyone who has studied his style (and if you look the last time that semi happened Mana ran him over). So it will be interesting, for example, to see him play MC or Squirtle (2 of the top PvZers) in the GSL format.
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stephano is not the best zvp in the world, the difference between GSL and other tournaments are very different, and in an environment like the GSL, only do some pros really show what their made of.
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On July 21 2012 10:55 Niteblade_ wrote:
Just want to add my 2 cents on all the debate going about vaility of GSl format vs other tournament and stephano vs the koreans ect....
First of all, I think it is sick that stephano is a foreighner that can take games off of koreans consistently(or so it seems at this point). Its great for the starcraft community for it to not be dominated by koreans (imo). (I realise im kinda being biased or racist or whatever you wanna call it by saying its stephano vs koreans, but such is the way it is)
However, this hasn't been proven in the GSL arena where the level of preparation is so huge for your oppenents weaknesses, that strategy and mind games play a huge role (not just mechanics). I'd like to draw a comparison between Stephano and MKP. Both are ladder beasts, and both perform extremely well in endurance type tournies (MLG, NASL, IPL's). However, MKP has failed to grab that victory in the GSL, 3 times now. And twice been robbed by that exact thing that is lacking from 3 day tournies: Preparation. MVP has dismantled MKP twice in the finals. And now MKP hasn't made it out of the R16 in how many seasons? Not to put any player down, they are all amazing, but just pointing out here the differences. And back when MKP won both winter arena's (or w/e it was) he was being hyped as the best for that time. Still couldn't make it out of the R16. And half a year ago when stephano played in the blizzard cup, MVP gutted stephano's TvZ so hard. (I realise stephano's TvZ has come leaps and bounds ahead since then)
All I'm trying to say with my rambling comparisons is that its definately takes different skill sets to be able to dominate in other tournament formats. However, from koreans that are code S to 3 day style tournaments, they seem to dominate them, but masters (in the foreigner scene) cannot reverse that in the GSL. That is why people say the GSL will be the ultimate test for Stephano, which I agree with (and am looking very forward to). There are so many other factors at play given a week of preparation.
TL;DR I think stephano is the top foreigner atm and one of the best in the world, but it will be interesting to see how well he performs in the hardest SC2 tournament environment. As such i can't say "oh he is the best at PvZ" because he hasn't had to play against anyone who has studied his style (and if you look the last time that semi happened Mana ran him over). So it will be interesting, for example, to see him play MC or Squirtle (2 of the top PvZers) in the GSL format.
I can turn this all around and say 40 games in three days vs varying oponents is far more indicative of skill than lucking out with planned BOs. But whatever everyone has thier own opinion. Bottom line is bank accounts that tells results of play and Stephano is number 3 this year so I have to rank him number 3.
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On July 21 2012 13:41 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 10:55 Niteblade_ wrote:
Just want to add my 2 cents on all the debate going about vaility of GSl format vs other tournament and stephano vs the koreans ect....
First of all, I think it is sick that stephano is a foreighner that can take games off of koreans consistently(or so it seems at this point). Its great for the starcraft community for it to not be dominated by koreans (imo). (I realise im kinda being biased or racist or whatever you wanna call it by saying its stephano vs koreans, but such is the way it is)
However, this hasn't been proven in the GSL arena where the level of preparation is so huge for your oppenents weaknesses, that strategy and mind games play a huge role (not just mechanics). I'd like to draw a comparison between Stephano and MKP. Both are ladder beasts, and both perform extremely well in endurance type tournies (MLG, NASL, IPL's). However, MKP has failed to grab that victory in the GSL, 3 times now. And twice been robbed by that exact thing that is lacking from 3 day tournies: Preparation. MVP has dismantled MKP twice in the finals. And now MKP hasn't made it out of the R16 in how many seasons? Not to put any player down, they are all amazing, but just pointing out here the differences. And back when MKP won both winter arena's (or w/e it was) he was being hyped as the best for that time. Still couldn't make it out of the R16. And half a year ago when stephano played in the blizzard cup, MVP gutted stephano's TvZ so hard. (I realise stephano's TvZ has come leaps and bounds ahead since then)
All I'm trying to say with my rambling comparisons is that its definately takes different skill sets to be able to dominate in other tournament formats. However, from koreans that are code S to 3 day style tournaments, they seem to dominate them, but masters (in the foreigner scene) cannot reverse that in the GSL. That is why people say the GSL will be the ultimate test for Stephano, which I agree with (and am looking very forward to). There are so many other factors at play given a week of preparation.
TL;DR I think stephano is the top foreigner atm and one of the best in the world, but it will be interesting to see how well he performs in the hardest SC2 tournament environment. As such i can't say "oh he is the best at PvZ" because he hasn't had to play against anyone who has studied his style (and if you look the last time that semi happened Mana ran him over). So it will be interesting, for example, to see him play MC or Squirtle (2 of the top PvZers) in the GSL format. I can turn this all around and say 40 games in three days vs varying oponents is far more indicative of skill than lucking out with planned BOs. But whatever everyone has thier own opinion. Bottom line is bank accounts that tells results of play and Stephano is number 3 this year so I have to rank him number 3.
Lucifon is ahead of hero, parting, squirtle, nestea, bomber, jjakji, ganzi, supernova and oz. So I guess that makes Lucifron better than all those Code S level players amirite? Dat logic. Earnings don't tell the story properly, and the fact that you rank stephano 3 because he is rank 3 in earnings boggles my mind.
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On July 21 2012 03:38 Rhaegar_tar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 03:20 Incomplet wrote:
Lol @ all the Stephano fanboys. He already said in an interview he is going to gsl in a few months. I cant wait for all the fangirls to stfu when he gets stomped. Oh and lets not forget the kespa guys coming out soon...Flash already looked beastly at MLG last month when he is still playing Starcraft 1. Yeah no: 1. Jaedong is inspired by Stephano's play. 2.MC said Stephano was top 3 zerg in the world. 3.MKP, Polt and (MVP?) said Stephano was code S level and a genius. 4.Most studied foreigner, despite him not playing in this GSL you seem to love. 5.He's 2000$ behind MC in the total earnings in 2012, the third player in teh world in those regards. Yeah, everything indicates he's gonna get stomped there.
Chill guys, I'm just looking forward to the Stephano Naniwa finals!
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Rooting for Stephano even though he struggles PvZ
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Why is Stephano's name even being mentioned in this thread???
This should be about the Code S games.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On July 21 2012 09:29 sibs wrote:Show nested quote +MC is the most consistent player in SC2 history, his prize money proves that. Proves he is a top korean player who gets paid to travel a lot. Most consistent player is probably MVP, or Nestea.
neither mvp nor nestea are consistent, although mvp's is more due to injury. nestea is good, but can derp massively
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On July 21 2012 16:12 lorestarcraft wrote:
Why is Stephano's name even being mentioned in this thread???
This should be about the Code S games.
lol so tru, for a second i thought this was the mlg thread
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Aw man, wanted a DRG vs Byun finals, got the opposite. Ah well, PvP finals, gogo Seed!!!!!
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Indeed, don't worry guys, you'll only have to suffer a PvP finals once, it's unlikely Blizzard will keep Protoss so buffed at the top now that the PvP finals is done with.
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Please send Stephano to Korea and watch him getting torn apart by every other player in the GSL.
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EPT
