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On July 07 2012 05:58 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Maybe people need to start accepting that Mvp is not the best player in the world anymore.
I know right, its been like 3 weeks since he has won a GSL.. Terrible form.
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On July 07 2012 05:58 flodeskum wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 05:51 mambar wrote:On July 07 2012 05:50 Gevna wrote:On July 07 2012 05:43 Toadvine wrote:On July 07 2012 05:39 GuardianEU wrote:On July 07 2012 05:38 zezamer wrote:On July 07 2012 05:36 zefreak wrote:On July 07 2012 05:32 IshinShishi wrote:On July 07 2012 05:26 Plansix wrote:On July 07 2012 05:08 Asha` wrote:
[quote]
Yup, should expect inferior players to do this a lot.
I guess he was just overly scared of another 2 base all in after the game before rather than Monchi going the other way and hoping to get away with greed. Inferior is a strong word and not one that I would use for someone who just beat MVP. I would say that Monchi knew he was not going to be able to match MVPs end game macro, since he is the Game Genie Terran. You can't fault people who do not have access to the Korean ladder for taking risks. I think the whole situation of MVP being able to be beaten by these guys is just very sad for the game and when he streams and loses to jackthejasonbowler high master NA it doesn't help my mood either. I agree, a game where someone can dominate and then lose to random players loses interest fast, and is usually just a bad game. Theres a reason why there's no such thing as rock paper scissors tournaments. Game is a joke if the best player in the history of the game can lose to someone like monchi, sorry... so the game is a joke if the best player plays bad and can lose games? seems legit. And yet there are games where this does not happen. BW and Quake Live for instance. Make all the excuses you want, it IS very easy to lose to an inferior player in SC2. Hmm yeah, Flash has never lost a game against Dear. He is even on 100% winstreaks for the last 2 years. they are saying it happens far less often, which makes it more meaningful Jaedong's overall winrate in BW is 68.5%, MVPs in SC2 is 64.66%.
Did Jaedong drop games to random foreigners like Feast, Monchi or Titan? No.
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On July 07 2012 05:58 flodeskum wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 05:51 mambar wrote:On July 07 2012 05:50 Gevna wrote:On July 07 2012 05:43 Toadvine wrote:On July 07 2012 05:39 GuardianEU wrote:On July 07 2012 05:38 zezamer wrote:On July 07 2012 05:36 zefreak wrote:On July 07 2012 05:32 IshinShishi wrote:On July 07 2012 05:26 Plansix wrote:On July 07 2012 05:08 Asha` wrote:
[quote]
Yup, should expect inferior players to do this a lot.
I guess he was just overly scared of another 2 base all in after the game before rather than Monchi going the other way and hoping to get away with greed. Inferior is a strong word and not one that I would use for someone who just beat MVP. I would say that Monchi knew he was not going to be able to match MVPs end game macro, since he is the Game Genie Terran. You can't fault people who do not have access to the Korean ladder for taking risks. I think the whole situation of MVP being able to be beaten by these guys is just very sad for the game and when he streams and loses to jackthejasonbowler high master NA it doesn't help my mood either. I agree, a game where someone can dominate and then lose to random players loses interest fast, and is usually just a bad game. Theres a reason why there's no such thing as rock paper scissors tournaments. Game is a joke if the best player in the history of the game can lose to someone like monchi, sorry... so the game is a joke if the best player plays bad and can lose games? seems legit. And yet there are games where this does not happen. BW and Quake Live for instance. Make all the excuses you want, it IS very easy to lose to an inferior player in SC2. Hmm yeah, Flash has never lost a game against Dear. He is even on 100% winstreaks for the last 2 years. they are saying it happens far less often, which makes it more meaningful Jaedong's overall winrate in BW is 68.5%, MVPs in SC2 is 64.66%.
MVP had a >69% overall win rate before he started having wrist problems.
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On July 07 2012 05:50 TheBanana wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 05:43 Toadvine wrote:On July 07 2012 05:39 GuardianEU wrote:On July 07 2012 05:38 zezamer wrote:On July 07 2012 05:36 zefreak wrote:On July 07 2012 05:32 IshinShishi wrote:On July 07 2012 05:26 Plansix wrote:On July 07 2012 05:08 Asha` wrote:On July 07 2012 05:06 Plansix wrote:On July 07 2012 04:57 Asha` wrote:
Monchi's fast hidden third wins him game 3. Disgusting series. I know, MVP should have played better and scouted it. He should have assumed his opponent would take risks against him. Yup, should expect inferior players to do this a lot. I guess he was just overly scared of another 2 base all in after the game before rather than Monchi going the other way and hoping to get away with greed. Inferior is a strong word and not one that I would use for someone who just beat MVP. I would say that Monchi knew he was not going to be able to match MVPs end game macro, since he is the Game Genie Terran. You can't fault people who do not have access to the Korean ladder for taking risks. I think the whole situation of MVP being able to be beaten by these guys is just very sad for the game and when he streams and loses to jackthejasonbowler high master NA it doesn't help my mood either. I agree, a game where someone can dominate and then lose to random players loses interest fast, and is usually just a bad game. Theres a reason why there's no such thing as rock paper scissors tournaments. Game is a joke if the best player in the history of the game can lose to someone like monchi, sorry... so the game is a joke if the best player plays bad and can lose games? seems legit. And yet there are games where this does not happen. BW and Quake Live for instance. Make all the excuses you want, it IS very easy to lose to an inferior player in SC2. It happens in Football(Soccer), Basketball, Tennis, NFL, Hockey etc all the time. Are these bad games?
It's a priori impossible to lose while playing worse in those games, though (well, I guess an argument could be made about football, which is often quite random). This is not true in SC2, where build orders matter way too much. If you read the interviews with kespa players, this is the one thing they all complain about - that arbitrary BO decisions matter too much, and that it's impossible to come back.
The essence of the complaint is that if this were BW and Flash playing against a foreigner, he'd still win easily even with the hidden base. This kind of thing just counts for too much in sc2.
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rets gf sure sounds excited about those broodlords
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Here we go, DTs incoming!
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On July 07 2012 05:59 Iyerbeth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 05:58 Iyerbeth wrote:On July 07 2012 05:58 Iyerbeth wrote:On July 07 2012 05:57 Iyerbeth wrote:On July 07 2012 05:56 Iyerbeth wrote:On July 07 2012 05:55 Iyerbeth wrote:On July 07 2012 05:54 Iyerbeth wrote:On July 07 2012 05:53 Iyerbeth wrote:On July 07 2012 05:52 Iyerbeth wrote:On July 07 2012 05:50 Iyerbeth wrote:Group G:  sLivko VS  DBS
Game 2Map - GSL  Atlantis SpaceshipsLivko - 8 o'clock spawn. DBS - 12 o'clock spawn. Best of 3 score:sLivko 1 - DBS 0 CC first from DBS. 2 Hatches first from sLivko before Pool. Factory and Reactor from DBS. 2 Queens from sLivko and gas taken. 3rd CC incoming for DBS. 2 more Queens (4) for sLivko. Starport incoming too. Speed started for Lings. Banshee incoming for DBS, no cloak. Roach Warren, Baneling nest and double Evo for sLivko. Spores up before Banshee gets to the main. hellions go in to third at the same time but immediately attacked by sLivko. 6 Drones killed total. Stim, Siege mode and +1 +1 bio coming for DBS. +1 +1 melee for sLivko with macro Hatch and Infestation Pit. Lots of Lings. DBS drops in main, gets 2 Drones. Taken a weird 3rd in the middle of the map with an Orbital, not scouted yet. Hellions caught in the middle of the map by lots of Lings and they all die. sLivko takes his 4th and a drop over it is caught by Infestors.
Double Spire and Hive with +2 +2 melee ups for sLivko.
Middle base still hidden.
Tripple Raven incoming from DBS.
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United States15275 Posts
On July 07 2012 05:59 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 05:56 Swords wrote:On July 07 2012 05:51 Calis5 wrote:On July 07 2012 05:49 Swiv wrote:On July 07 2012 05:48 IshinShishi wrote:On July 07 2012 05:44 Fragile51 wrote:On July 07 2012 05:42 MentalGNT wrote:On July 07 2012 05:38 zezamer wrote:On July 07 2012 05:36 zefreak wrote:On July 07 2012 05:32 IshinShishi wrote:
[quote]
I think the whole situation of MVP being able to be beaten by these guys is just very sad for the game and when he streams and loses to jackthejasonbowler high master NA it doesn't help my mood either. I agree, a game where someone can dominate and then lose to random players loses interest fast, and is usually just a bad game. Theres a reason why there's no such thing as rock paper scissors tournaments. Game is a joke if the best player in the history of the game can lose to someone like monchi, sorry... The best player in Starcraft 2 history still has to play well to win. Mvp played very sloppy and lost. Just as he should have. And I say this as a huge Mvp fan. Exactly. I'm a huge MVP fan but his play thusfar has been very underwhelming. Nah, huge bw names rarely lost to random foreigners(even when they "played sloppy"), it was like the happening of the month, in sc2 it happens so often to players like MKP, MVP, MMA etc. it makes the game seem a lot less interesting, that's just the way it is. maybe random foreigners are good as well`? Or maybe this game has a low skill cap where exceptional players cant really stand out? But exceptional players are standing out. That's indicted by the giant shit fit on this LR thread after Mvp lost. Everyone was really surprised he lost because we know Mvp usually wins because he's an exceptionally good player. All of this complaining proves there are exceptional players. If there weren't any then we'd never be surprised when a monchi beat an mvp. Mvp got popular with exceptional play, monchi beating Mvp with average play isn't interesting. If Monchi did something amazing I wouldn't have a problem with it obviously. Symbol coming out of relative nowhere and killing players that used to be dominant is interesting because he actually plays brilliantly.
Us KR hipsters always knew that Symbol was going to be a star.
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Is Slivko as big as he seems on stream now?
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
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On July 07 2012 05:58 flodeskum wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 05:51 mambar wrote:On July 07 2012 05:50 Gevna wrote:On July 07 2012 05:43 Toadvine wrote:On July 07 2012 05:39 GuardianEU wrote:On July 07 2012 05:38 zezamer wrote:On July 07 2012 05:36 zefreak wrote:On July 07 2012 05:32 IshinShishi wrote:On July 07 2012 05:26 Plansix wrote:On July 07 2012 05:08 Asha` wrote:
[quote]
Yup, should expect inferior players to do this a lot.
I guess he was just overly scared of another 2 base all in after the game before rather than Monchi going the other way and hoping to get away with greed. Inferior is a strong word and not one that I would use for someone who just beat MVP. I would say that Monchi knew he was not going to be able to match MVPs end game macro, since he is the Game Genie Terran. You can't fault people who do not have access to the Korean ladder for taking risks. I think the whole situation of MVP being able to be beaten by these guys is just very sad for the game and when he streams and loses to jackthejasonbowler high master NA it doesn't help my mood either. I agree, a game where someone can dominate and then lose to random players loses interest fast, and is usually just a bad game. Theres a reason why there's no such thing as rock paper scissors tournaments. Game is a joke if the best player in the history of the game can lose to someone like monchi, sorry... so the game is a joke if the best player plays bad and can lose games? seems legit. And yet there are games where this does not happen. BW and Quake Live for instance. Make all the excuses you want, it IS very easy to lose to an inferior player in SC2. Hmm yeah, Flash has never lost a game against Dear. He is even on 100% winstreaks for the last 2 years. they are saying it happens far less often, which makes it more meaningful Jaedong's overall winrate in BW is 68.5%, MVPs in SC2 is 64.66%.
If Jaedong played in the BW equivalent of HSC, his winrate would be 100%
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DBS is playing so smart, he would be a total beast if he had the multitasking skills to back it up!
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On July 07 2012 05:59 Jono7272 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 05:58 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Maybe people need to start accepting that Mvp is not the best player in the world anymore. I know right, its been like 3 weeks since he has won a GSL.. Terrible form.
Mvp is the only player in the world who can win the GSL and still be considered slumping.
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MVP is better in GSL because he has a week to prepare for the opponent(s), here he doesn't have info on a lot of players and he doesn;t have time to prepare, that;'s why he;s sick good in GSL and not that awesome in things like hsc.
not quit the whining already.
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On July 07 2012 06:00 Iyerbeth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 05:59 Iyerbeth wrote:On July 07 2012 05:58 Iyerbeth wrote:On July 07 2012 05:58 Iyerbeth wrote:On July 07 2012 05:57 Iyerbeth wrote:On July 07 2012 05:56 Iyerbeth wrote:On July 07 2012 05:55 Iyerbeth wrote:On July 07 2012 05:54 Iyerbeth wrote:On July 07 2012 05:53 Iyerbeth wrote:On July 07 2012 05:52 Iyerbeth wrote:
[quote]
CC first from DBS.
2 Hatches first from sLivko before Pool. Factory and Reactor from DBS. 2 Queens from sLivko and gas taken. 3rd CC incoming for DBS. 2 more Queens (4) for sLivko. Starport incoming too. Speed started for Lings. Banshee incoming for DBS, no cloak. Roach Warren, Baneling nest and double Evo for sLivko. Spores up before Banshee gets to the main. hellions go in to third at the same time but immediately attacked by sLivko. 6 Drones killed total. Stim, Siege mode and +1 +1 bio coming for DBS. +1 +1 melee for sLivko with macro Hatch and Infestation Pit. Lots of Lings. DBS drops in main, gets 2 Drones. Taken a weird 3rd in the middle of the map with an Orbital, not scouted yet. Hellions caught in the middle of the map by lots of Lings and they all die. sLivko takes his 4th and a drop over it is caught by Infestors. Double Spire and Hive with +2 +2 melee ups for sLivko. Middle base still hidden. Tripple Raven incoming from DBS.
Greater Spire incoming, more drops from DBS and more quick responses from sLivko.
Almost constant drops at the moment.
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On July 07 2012 05:59 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 05:56 Swords wrote:On July 07 2012 05:51 Calis5 wrote:On July 07 2012 05:49 Swiv wrote:On July 07 2012 05:48 IshinShishi wrote:On July 07 2012 05:44 Fragile51 wrote:On July 07 2012 05:42 MentalGNT wrote:On July 07 2012 05:38 zezamer wrote:On July 07 2012 05:36 zefreak wrote:On July 07 2012 05:32 IshinShishi wrote:
[quote]
I think the whole situation of MVP being able to be beaten by these guys is just very sad for the game and when he streams and loses to jackthejasonbowler high master NA it doesn't help my mood either. I agree, a game where someone can dominate and then lose to random players loses interest fast, and is usually just a bad game. Theres a reason why there's no such thing as rock paper scissors tournaments. Game is a joke if the best player in the history of the game can lose to someone like monchi, sorry... The best player in Starcraft 2 history still has to play well to win. Mvp played very sloppy and lost. Just as he should have. And I say this as a huge Mvp fan. Exactly. I'm a huge MVP fan but his play thusfar has been very underwhelming. Nah, huge bw names rarely lost to random foreigners(even when they "played sloppy"), it was like the happening of the month, in sc2 it happens so often to players like MKP, MVP, MMA etc. it makes the game seem a lot less interesting, that's just the way it is. maybe random foreigners are good as well`? Or maybe this game has a low skill cap where exceptional players cant really stand out? But exceptional players are standing out. That's indicted by the giant shit fit on this LR thread after Mvp lost. Everyone was really surprised he lost because we know Mvp usually wins because he's an exceptionally good player. All of this complaining proves there are exceptional players. If there weren't any then we'd never be surprised when a monchi beat an mvp. Mvp got popular with exceptional play, monchi beating Mvp with average play isn't interesting. If Monchi did something amazing I wouldn't have a problem with it obviously. Symbol coming out of relative nowhere and killing players that used to be dominant is interesting because he actually plays brilliantly.
I see your point. But in every sport/competition there is sometimes players/teams have bad days and don't play well, and if you're a fan of these teams and players it blows.
It doesn't mean the sport sucks because if someone has a bad day they should lose, even to average players or average teams. It happens all the time.
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On July 07 2012 05:59 Calis5 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 05:58 flodeskum wrote:On July 07 2012 05:51 mambar wrote:On July 07 2012 05:50 Gevna wrote:On July 07 2012 05:43 Toadvine wrote:On July 07 2012 05:39 GuardianEU wrote:On July 07 2012 05:38 zezamer wrote:On July 07 2012 05:36 zefreak wrote:On July 07 2012 05:32 IshinShishi wrote:On July 07 2012 05:26 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Inferior is a strong word and not one that I would use for someone who just beat MVP. I would say that Monchi knew he was not going to be able to match MVPs end game macro, since he is the Game Genie Terran. You can't fault people who do not have access to the Korean ladder for taking risks. I think the whole situation of MVP being able to be beaten by these guys is just very sad for the game and when he streams and loses to jackthejasonbowler high master NA it doesn't help my mood either. I agree, a game where someone can dominate and then lose to random players loses interest fast, and is usually just a bad game. Theres a reason why there's no such thing as rock paper scissors tournaments. Game is a joke if the best player in the history of the game can lose to someone like monchi, sorry... so the game is a joke if the best player plays bad and can lose games? seems legit. And yet there are games where this does not happen. BW and Quake Live for instance. Make all the excuses you want, it IS very easy to lose to an inferior player in SC2. Hmm yeah, Flash has never lost a game against Dear. He is even on 100% winstreaks for the last 2 years. they are saying it happens far less often, which makes it more meaningful Jaedong's overall winrate in BW is 68.5%, MVPs in SC2 is 64.66%. Did Jaedong drop games to random foreigners like Feast, Monchi or Titan? No.
He lost a game to Incontrol.
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EPT
