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Dreamhack Summer [Day 2] - Page 27

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Snusmumriken
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden1717 Posts
June 17 2012 09:49 GMT
#521
Did Apollo screw this up?

Amove for Aiur
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
June 17 2012 09:49 GMT
#522
On June 17 2012 18:48 PoP wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2012 18:44 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:42 PoP wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:39 Waxangel wrote:
I'm glad you can read his mind

the point is caster should never even POSSIBLY affect the game like that


I can't read his mind, you can't either. No way to know what he would've done. You think he didn't realize Cyto had no AA after all this time, I think he did.

And yeah Apollo should've not done this, definitely not. Just think it didn't matter at all here.


We know what he ALMOST did. He almost lost all of his buildings. Do you realize how close it was? If those infestors had been 1 screen closer, dragon might have lost. It isn't like he made an easy escape.


Didn't he have tons of buildings at bottom left when the game actually ended? Like 5 or 6 at least. That's plenty enough to escape a couple infested terrans.

Fact is Apollo sent the message when Dragon had no chance anymore. That's when Dragon floated his buildings towards the corner, because he had no chance to make any units anymore.


I don't think Apollo is the cause of how close that was but it was really close, all five buildings floated to the bottom left some at half health and the rest 75%~ and 3 of the 5 started burning due to infested terrans when they finally got out of range.
DOUDOU
Profile Joined October 2011
Wales2940 Posts
June 17 2012 09:49 GMT
#523
they better cast thorzain - lalush
Feast | Grubby | Mvp | Polt | Fantasy | Last | MMA | forGG | Leenock | Soberphano | Scarlett cutiepie
Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
June 17 2012 09:49 GMT
#524
On June 17 2012 18:43 Asha` wrote:
Buildings should lose X health per second after > 1min of floating.


This is just bullshit. Terran buildings can fly. If you don't have anti-air, and if you don't have the recources to build anti-air, then you don't deserve to win the game. It's not that hard, right? Some things may look unfair, but every race has those unfair things.
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-17 09:50:48
June 17 2012 09:50 GMT
#525
On June 17 2012 18:48 PoP wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2012 18:44 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:42 PoP wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:39 Waxangel wrote:
I'm glad you can read his mind

the point is caster should never even POSSIBLY affect the game like that


I can't read his mind, you can't either. No way to know what he would've done. You think he didn't realize Cyto had no AA after all this time, I think he did.

And yeah Apollo should've not done this, definitely not. Just think it didn't matter at all here.


We know what he ALMOST did. He almost lost all of his buildings. Do you realize how close it was? If those infestors had been 1 screen closer, dragon might have lost. It isn't like he made an easy escape.


Didn't he have tons of buildings at bottom left when the game actually ended? Like 5 or 6 at least. That's plenty enough to escape a couple infested terrans.

Fact is Apollo sent the message when Dragon had no chance anymore. That's when Dragon floated his buildings towards the corner, because he had no chance to make any units anymore.


It was 2. He had 2 buildings there that were not burning down.

EDIT: or maybe 3. Definitely way too risky
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
I_Love_Bacon
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5765 Posts
June 17 2012 09:50 GMT
#526
On June 17 2012 18:48 PoP wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2012 18:44 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:42 PoP wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:39 Waxangel wrote:
I'm glad you can read his mind

the point is caster should never even POSSIBLY affect the game like that


I can't read his mind, you can't either. No way to know what he would've done. You think he didn't realize Cyto had no AA after all this time, I think he did.

And yeah Apollo should've not done this, definitely not. Just think it didn't matter at all here.


We know what he ALMOST did. He almost lost all of his buildings. Do you realize how close it was? If those infestors had been 1 screen closer, dragon might have lost. It isn't like he made an easy escape.


Didn't he have tons of buildings at bottom left when the game actually ended? Like 5 or 6 at least. That's plenty enough to escape a couple infested terrans.

Fact is Apollo sent the message when Dragon had no chance anymore. That's when Dragon floated his buildings towards the corner, because he had no chance to make any units anymore.


No, and the fact that you think that really makes me question how closely you were watching. Dragon was left with 2... maaaaybe 3 buildings that were not healthy. The others that he had floated were burning.
" i havent been playin sc2 but i woke up w/ a boner and i really had to pee... and my crisis management and micro was really something to behold. it inspired me to play some games today" -Liquid'Tyler
Fueled
Profile Joined October 2011
United States1610 Posts
June 17 2012 09:50 GMT
#527
On June 17 2012 18:48 PoP wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2012 18:44 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:42 PoP wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:39 Waxangel wrote:
I'm glad you can read his mind

the point is caster should never even POSSIBLY affect the game like that


I can't read his mind, you can't either. No way to know what he would've done. You think he didn't realize Cyto had no AA after all this time, I think he did.

And yeah Apollo should've not done this, definitely not. Just think it didn't matter at all here.


We know what he ALMOST did. He almost lost all of his buildings. Do you realize how close it was? If those infestors had been 1 screen closer, dragon might have lost. It isn't like he made an easy escape.


Didn't he have tons of buildings at bottom left when the game actually ended? Like 5 or 6 at least. That's plenty enough to escape a couple infested terrans.

Fact is Apollo sent the message when Dragon had no chance anymore. That's when Dragon floated his buildings towards the corner, because he had no chance to make any units anymore.

He had 6 when he turned around and started sending them to the bottom left. Infested Terrans picked off 2.
The Wood League - Where a double gas opening can still mean a Marine/SCV all-in
Letall
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden384 Posts
June 17 2012 09:50 GMT
#528
On June 17 2012 18:46 Mosquitow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2012 18:43 Daray wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:40 JJH777 wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:39 sleepingdog wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:38 PoP wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:36 elbooN wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:36 [17]Purple wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:35 mememolly wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:34 elbooN wrote:
dragon realized it was a draw after apollo said that... sigh


yeah, I don't think he realised


I think Dragon could tell that there were no AA Air units after his buildings.


He literally did not float his buildings anywhere until apollo said it.


No he did it when he had no chance to win anymore.


Dragon didn't know how many ressources Cyto had - there was still the very slight possibility that Cyto had banked 250 for a hatch and didn't want to spend it until all of Dragon's production was gone.
I realize that's like 0,00001% possible, but still.

Well, first world problem here, I think we will be able to get over it.


If that was the case then Cyto would have just said no to the draw.... You guys are being ridiculous. There is no way Dragon didn't realize he could force a draw. 0% chance.


Well why the fuck did he not just fly _a_ building to the edge of the map earlier and not wait until the last second? Why risk it at all? 0% chance cmon man
*
Because he was still trying to produce units with the mules and his command center ? Did you actually watch the game?


So why didnt he float a barracks? was he making marines?
Dont tase me bro
Jojo131
Profile Joined January 2011
Brazil1631 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-17 09:51:08
June 17 2012 09:50 GMT
#529
On June 17 2012 18:48 Misoza wrote:
Bah, just tuning in now, sounds like I missed some e-drama!

Can someone briefly give me a run-down of the previous draw game?

Cyto without hatches, relying on extractors and superior army to stay alive, no mutas/corruptors.

People are blaming Apollo for suggesting a draw because apparently they think after 5000+ ladder games Dragon is too stupid to realize that he can just fly buildings and cause a draw.
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15845 Posts
June 17 2012 09:50 GMT
#530
Wow I've just thought about this : supply depots can burrow & OL can fly! Shouldn't it be the other way around?
"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
-_-Quails
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia796 Posts
June 17 2012 09:50 GMT
#531
On June 17 2012 18:43 Daray wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2012 18:40 JJH777 wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:39 sleepingdog wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:38 PoP wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:36 elbooN wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:36 [17]Purple wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:35 mememolly wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:34 elbooN wrote:
dragon realized it was a draw after apollo said that... sigh


yeah, I don't think he realised


I think Dragon could tell that there were no AA Air units after his buildings.


He literally did not float his buildings anywhere until apollo said it.


No he did it when he had no chance to win anymore.


Dragon didn't know how many ressources Cyto had - there was still the very slight possibility that Cyto had banked 250 for a hatch and didn't want to spend it until all of Dragon's production was gone.
I realize that's like 0,00001% possible, but still.

Well, first world problem here, I think we will be able to get over it.


If that was the case then Cyto would have just said no to the draw.... You guys are being ridiculous. There is no way Dragon didn't realize he could force a draw. 0% chance.


Well why the fuck did he not just fly _a_ building to the edge of the map earlier and not wait until the last second? Why risk it at all? 0% chance cmon man

It is Dragon. He does love putting on a show. If he was fairly sure he would just about make it, he might try to make it as close as possible.
"I post only when my brain works." - Reaper9
qazadex
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia473 Posts
June 17 2012 09:51 GMT
#532
Wait, why is series only on game 3? Dragon was 1-0 up like two hours ago.
Irave
Profile Joined October 2010
United States9965 Posts
June 17 2012 09:51 GMT
#533
On June 17 2012 18:49 DOUDOU wrote:
they better cast thorzain - lalush

No way, they have to cast Morrow vs Cyto and Dragon v Fade.
mememolly
Profile Joined December 2011
4765 Posts
June 17 2012 09:51 GMT
#534
On June 17 2012 18:49 Snowbear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2012 18:43 Asha` wrote:
Buildings should lose X health per second after > 1min of floating.


This is just bullshit. Terran buildings can fly. If you don't have anti-air, and if you don't have the recources to build anti-air, then you don't deserve to win the game. It's not that hard, right? Some things may look unfair, but every race has those unfair things.


zerg and toss don't have anything comparable to the Terran floating building mechanic that can draw an otherwise lost game
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
June 17 2012 09:51 GMT
#535
On June 17 2012 18:50 Letall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2012 18:46 Mosquitow wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:43 Daray wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:40 JJH777 wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:39 sleepingdog wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:38 PoP wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:36 elbooN wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:36 [17]Purple wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:35 mememolly wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:34 elbooN wrote:
dragon realized it was a draw after apollo said that... sigh


yeah, I don't think he realised


I think Dragon could tell that there were no AA Air units after his buildings.


He literally did not float his buildings anywhere until apollo said it.


No he did it when he had no chance to win anymore.


Dragon didn't know how many ressources Cyto had - there was still the very slight possibility that Cyto had banked 250 for a hatch and didn't want to spend it until all of Dragon's production was gone.
I realize that's like 0,00001% possible, but still.

Well, first world problem here, I think we will be able to get over it.


If that was the case then Cyto would have just said no to the draw.... You guys are being ridiculous. There is no way Dragon didn't realize he could force a draw. 0% chance.


Well why the fuck did he not just fly _a_ building to the edge of the map earlier and not wait until the last second? Why risk it at all? 0% chance cmon man
*
Because he was still trying to produce units with the mules and his command center ? Did you actually watch the game?


So why didnt he float a barracks? was he making marines?


This was also what Incontrol repeatedly questioned.
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
Bergys
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden337 Posts
June 17 2012 09:51 GMT
#536
On June 17 2012 18:46 Type|NarutO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2012 18:46 Bergys wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:41 Type|NarutO wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:39 Deathmanbob wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:38 Daray wrote:
Spectators should NEVER say anything that might impact the results of a game, even if the chances are like .0001%


terran should NEVER be allowed to force a draw like that. I get the whole race mechanic i just really hate when they win draw out a game they should lose because of it


In theory you could have 8 sentries and 1 pylon at a ramp and Terran with 200/200 bio but no mining/minerals could never beat you because of forcefields. Would that be imbalanced as well? Its not like Cyto did play a draw here because Terran buildings can fly, but because he failed to keep 3(?) hatcheries alive, with a superior army.... and mapcontrol.


I do think it would be bad mannered to keep force-fielding your ramp if your opponent had a 200/200 army. It's different though imo.


How is it bad mannered. Its a game-mechanic and if you can prevent losing, you do so. Perfectly valid


First of all, this scenario is extremely unlikely. This scenario where terran gets a auto-draw because their buildings can fly can, and has happened on several occasions. Also I wouldn't blame someone for forcing a draw in that scenario, but personally I think it's bad mannered because there's literally no way you can win except for abusing game mechanics in ways they we're not meant to, trying to force a draw. If f.ex. blizzard didn't add the auto-draw timer the player with the larger army could just alt-tab and wait until he couldn't be bothered force-fielding anymore.
PoP
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
France15446 Posts
June 17 2012 09:51 GMT
#537
On June 17 2012 18:46 BadBinky wrote:
I've seen Dragon do some retarded shit. I've seen better players throw away games in even more stupid manner. Stop trolling.


And watch your tongue. That stop trolling thing is uncalled for.
Administrator
TheBanana
Profile Joined December 2010
Norway2183 Posts
June 17 2012 09:51 GMT
#538
On June 17 2012 18:47 SpiffD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2012 18:45 Fueled wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:41 Stormiii wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:39 Waxangel wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:38 PoP wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:36 elbooN wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:36 [17]Purple wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:35 mememolly wrote:
On June 17 2012 18:34 elbooN wrote:
dragon realized it was a draw after apollo said that... sigh


yeah, I don't think he realised


I think Dragon could tell that there were no AA Air units after his buildings.


He literally did not float his buildings anywhere until apollo said it.


No he did it when he had no chance to win anymore.


I'm glad you can read his mind

the point is caster should never even POSSIBLY affect the game like that

Dragon has played like 5000+ games as terran, im pretty sure that he knows that terran buildings can fly.

But he didn't know the Zerg had no Muta/Corrupters.


If he didn't know, he would've tried to float anyway.


Yes, also, how the hell would he not know that considering the previous 2000 minutes of the game?
If you're not getting better faster than everybody else, you're getting worse.
Mallidon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Scotland557 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-17 09:53:01
June 17 2012 09:51 GMT
#539
On June 17 2012 18:46 DrakeFZX3 wrote:
The amount of ppl ragging on Apollo is absurd. Let it go and move on.


I don't think everyone is raging and I also believe Dragon would have floated anyway, but imo any form of interaction can be off putting and influence things. I'd say if in doubt, don't type it out!

At the same time, I'm not raging. I think an Incontrol slap is about enough punishment for Apollo

Edited slightly from people to everyone. Sure there are SOME crazy people raging ofc, standard!
Bleh.
nemahsys
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada457 Posts
June 17 2012 09:51 GMT
#540
that was scary for taeja for a second there.
DJ Wheat, if you read this, plz get Lo3 back on itunes stat!
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