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On May 21 2012 14:56 Nazza wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 14:46 darklight54321 wrote:On May 21 2012 14:42 CursOr wrote:On May 21 2012 14:41 takingbackoj wrote:
Are BW Tvt's normally like this? Im not exactly sure whats going on but it looks like an intense contain. BW is different in that you usually dont lose over the course of 10 seconds, but like 8 minutes. It can be just as decisive, but the pathing makes it unfold more dynamically. another way to put this is Even after the game is won, the ai is so horrible that it takes the player minutes to get into position they can take advantage of the game being won, but reinforcements have already arrived. Now the player who's already won, barring a miracle, has to fight another battle he's almost guaranteed to win to finish off the game. People talk about how the pathfinding makes the game more dynamic and how the restrictions make the game more interesting, but i just see it as people who want the game to be over once it's over vs the people who just want to see if someoen makes a big mistake and loses a game they had won 15 minutes before. On May 21 2012 14:44 MegaFonzie wrote:On May 21 2012 14:38 darklight54321 wrote:On May 21 2012 14:33 sharky246 wrote:On May 21 2012 14:29 GreYMisT wrote:On May 21 2012 14:26 CursOr wrote:On May 21 2012 14:24 GreYMisT wrote:
Having to micro between two LR threads is hard -.-
Are we sure we can't just add another tab on the sidebar for Hybrid Proleague? haha. I just didnt want the SC2 crowd to miss that this was going on. And it wouldn't be right if this was under the thread that was used yesterday. I agree with that, its just that the general consensus before yesterday was that we should have 2 LR threads in both the BW and SC2 section. Its just a bit weird with the BW people in here explaining things and the SC2 people in the BW section and all the questions being answered 4 times in both threads  But whatever, we are all here for starcraft. And Jaedong won, so all is right in the world Why would you do this?! read the LR for the opening day. One is full of excitement and even some what overzealous criticism. The other is full of hate. Most sc2 players, even if hey used to be big bw players, try to avoid the bw forums because no matter what bw is king. No matter what, the bw forum is always right about everything. I actually saw some people in the BW LR thread who I never in a million years would of thought would stick around for the sc2 section show genuine enthusiasm about the games. i'm not saying it's everyone, but there are a lot of people who are so closed to how good sc2 actually is that they are willing to bash their favorite players and teams just to try and feel good. Game is never won instantly. It's won over small battles and small advantages. You almost never attack them after you've killed alot of scvs, but you wait until you have a sizable advantage, and then you abuse that advantage. Positioning is so key in TvT. 3 Sieged tanks can kill 6 unsieged tanks coming in the wrong angle. So not only should you wait until your economy kicks in, but you have to be super careful how you engage the other terran.
Makes sense. Kind of like SC2 but a bit amplified from the sound of it.
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Why would you disrespect my boy EffOrt with a rax like that?
He ain't gonna be having that shit...
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On May 21 2012 14:51 darklight54321 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 14:48 CursOr wrote:On May 21 2012 14:46 darklight54321 wrote:On May 21 2012 14:42 CursOr wrote:On May 21 2012 14:41 takingbackoj wrote:
Are BW Tvt's normally like this? Im not exactly sure whats going on but it looks like an intense contain. BW is different in that you usually dont lose over the course of 10 seconds, but like 8 minutes. It can be just as decisive, but the pathing makes it unfold more dynamically. another way to put this is Even after the game is won, the ai is so horrible that it takes the player minutes to get into position they can take advantage of the game being won, but reinforcements have already arrived. Now the player who's already won, barring a miracle, has to fight another battle he's almost guaranteed to win to finish off the game. People talk about how the pathfinding makes the game more dynamic and how the restrictions make the game more interesting, but i just see it as people who want the game to be over once it's over vs the people who just want to see if someoen makes a big mistake and loses a game they had won 15 minutes before. That is one way to put it. With that, comes more chances for comebacks, more chances for like "counter mistakes" and less losing to not A-moving your army in the 2 second window, or getting your Nexus/CC/Hatchery sniped in 3 seconds. Also less base race scenarios. But, I love both games for what they are. i agree about the base race part lol. Sometimes i wish they could do something about that but there really isn't anything. Same thing happens in the BW custom maps in sc2. The new ui just allows for basetrades and crap. Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 14:51 phosphorylation wrote:On May 21 2012 14:46 darklight54321 wrote:On May 21 2012 14:42 CursOr wrote:On May 21 2012 14:41 takingbackoj wrote:
Are BW Tvt's normally like this? Im not exactly sure whats going on but it looks like an intense contain. BW is different in that you usually dont lose over the course of 10 seconds, but like 8 minutes. It can be just as decisive, but the pathing makes it unfold more dynamically. another way to put this is Even after the game is won, the ai is so horrible that it takes the player minutes to get into position they can take advantage of the game being won, but reinforcements have already arrived. Now the player who's already won, barring a miracle, has to fight another battle he's almost guaranteed to win to finish off the game. People talk about how the pathfinding makes the game more dynamic and how the restrictions make the game more interesting, but i just see it as people who want the game to be over once it's over vs the people who just want to see if someoen makes a big mistake and loses a game they had won 15 minutes before. On May 21 2012 14:44 MegaFonzie wrote:On May 21 2012 14:38 darklight54321 wrote:On May 21 2012 14:33 sharky246 wrote:On May 21 2012 14:29 GreYMisT wrote:On May 21 2012 14:26 CursOr wrote:On May 21 2012 14:24 GreYMisT wrote:
Having to micro between two LR threads is hard -.-
Are we sure we can't just add another tab on the sidebar for Hybrid Proleague? haha. I just didnt want the SC2 crowd to miss that this was going on. And it wouldn't be right if this was under the thread that was used yesterday. I agree with that, its just that the general consensus before yesterday was that we should have 2 LR threads in both the BW and SC2 section. Its just a bit weird with the BW people in here explaining things and the SC2 people in the BW section and all the questions being answered 4 times in both threads But whatever, we are all here for starcraft. And Jaedong won, so all is right in the world Why would you do this?! read the LR for the opening day. One is full of excitement and even some what overzealous criticism. The other is full of hate. Most sc2 players, even if hey used to be big bw players, try to avoid the bw forums because no matter what bw is king. No matter what, the bw forum is always right about everything. I actually saw some people in the BW LR thread who I never in a million years would of thought would stick around for the sc2 section show genuine enthusiasm about the games. i'm not saying it's everyone, but there are a lot of people who are so closed to how good sc2 actually is that they are willing to bash their favorite players and teams just to try and feel good. You have no idea what you are talking about. There is absolutely nothing wrong with terran AI. Everything is butter smooth and units are extremely responsive. If you mentioned protoss and dragoons, maybe I would give you the benefit of the doubt. Your insane, BW is one big race against the pathfinding issues. Terran has the least issues for sure, but i was talking in general not terran in specific. Read the damn posts you criticize.
Your post doesn't make sense. Have you even played BW? If you tell a unit to move/rally somewhere, it gets there reliably and always when you expect it (barring extremely unusual maps like bluestorm). I think what you are intending to say instead is that there is too much of defender's advantage and players who are behind can delay an inevitable loss for too long. I simply cannot agree to this either. Just because someone falls behind in the game shouldn't mean that he automatically lose that game (unlike most sc2 games for example). People come back from disadvatnges from all the time -- and these tend to be the best games -- and you would not believe some of the come backs that players have pulled off in the past.
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On May 21 2012 14:46 darklight54321 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 14:42 CursOr wrote:On May 21 2012 14:41 takingbackoj wrote:
Are BW Tvt's normally like this? Im not exactly sure whats going on but it looks like an intense contain. BW is different in that you usually dont lose over the course of 10 seconds, but like 8 minutes. It can be just as decisive, but the pathing makes it unfold more dynamically. another way to put this is Even after the game is won, the ai is so horrible that it takes the player minutes to get into position they can take advantage of the game being won, but reinforcements have already arrived. Now the player who's already won, barring a miracle, has to fight another battle he's almost guaranteed to win to finish off the game. People talk about how the pathfinding makes the game more dynamic and how the restrictions make the game more interesting, but i just see it as people who want the game to be over once it's over vs the people who just want to see if someoen makes a big mistake and loses a game they had won 15 minutes before. Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 14:44 MegaFonzie wrote:On May 21 2012 14:38 darklight54321 wrote:On May 21 2012 14:33 sharky246 wrote:On May 21 2012 14:29 GreYMisT wrote:On May 21 2012 14:26 CursOr wrote:On May 21 2012 14:24 GreYMisT wrote:
Having to micro between two LR threads is hard -.-
Are we sure we can't just add another tab on the sidebar for Hybrid Proleague? haha. I just didnt want the SC2 crowd to miss that this was going on. And it wouldn't be right if this was under the thread that was used yesterday. I agree with that, its just that the general consensus before yesterday was that we should have 2 LR threads in both the BW and SC2 section. Its just a bit weird with the BW people in here explaining things and the SC2 people in the BW section and all the questions being answered 4 times in both threads But whatever, we are all here for starcraft. And Jaedong won, so all is right in the world Why would you do this?! read the LR for the opening day. One is full of excitement and even some what overzealous criticism. The other is full of hate. Most sc2 players, even if hey used to be big bw players, try to avoid the bw forums because no matter what bw is king. No matter what, the bw forum is always right about everything. I actually saw some people in the BW LR thread who I never in a million years would of thought would stick around for the sc2 section show genuine enthusiasm about the games. i'm not saying it's everyone, but there are a lot of people who are so closed to how good sc2 actually is that they are willing to bash their favorite players and teams just to try and feel good.
It's not the AI. It's the much much more powerful high ground advantage and the abundance of units that can hold ground. Siege tanks are much more effective in BW, zerg has the lurker/defiler and protoss has the reaver. The only time any faction in SC2 had anything close to BW-level defense, khaydarin amulet got nerfed because of all the whining.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51706 Posts
In BW SCVs have 60 HP, hard as shit to kill.
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On May 21 2012 14:46 darklight54321 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 14:42 CursOr wrote:On May 21 2012 14:41 takingbackoj wrote:
Are BW Tvt's normally like this? Im not exactly sure whats going on but it looks like an intense contain. BW is different in that you usually dont lose over the course of 10 seconds, but like 8 minutes. It can be just as decisive, but the pathing makes it unfold more dynamically. another way to put this is Even after the game is won, the ai is so horrible that it takes the player minutes to get into position they can take advantage of the game being won, but reinforcements have already arrived. Now the player who's already won, barring a miracle, has to fight another battle he's almost guaranteed to win to finish off the game. People talk about how the pathfinding makes the game more dynamic and how the restrictions make the game more interesting, but i just see it as people who want the game to be over once it's over vs the people who just want to see if someoen makes a big mistake and loses a game they had won 15 minutes before. Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 14:44 MegaFonzie wrote:On May 21 2012 14:38 darklight54321 wrote:On May 21 2012 14:33 sharky246 wrote:On May 21 2012 14:29 GreYMisT wrote:On May 21 2012 14:26 CursOr wrote:On May 21 2012 14:24 GreYMisT wrote:
Having to micro between two LR threads is hard -.-
Are we sure we can't just add another tab on the sidebar for Hybrid Proleague? haha. I just didnt want the SC2 crowd to miss that this was going on. And it wouldn't be right if this was under the thread that was used yesterday. I agree with that, its just that the general consensus before yesterday was that we should have 2 LR threads in both the BW and SC2 section. Its just a bit weird with the BW people in here explaining things and the SC2 people in the BW section and all the questions being answered 4 times in both threads But whatever, we are all here for starcraft. And Jaedong won, so all is right in the world Why would you do this?! read the LR for the opening day. One is full of excitement and even some what overzealous criticism. The other is full of hate. Most sc2 players, even if hey used to be big bw players, try to avoid the bw forums because no matter what bw is king. No matter what, the bw forum is always right about everything. I actually saw some people in the BW LR thread who I never in a million years would of thought would stick around for the sc2 section show genuine enthusiasm about the games. i'm not saying it's everyone, but there are a lot of people who are so closed to how good sc2 actually is that they are willing to bash their favorite players and teams just to try and feel good.
tvt is an extreme example due to how much of a defenders advantage tanks get. This is still true in sc2 tvt, but we just see less mech in general because of the marauder and relatively weaker tanks. Still, you are missing the point. Games are not longer just because players are fighting the ai to take the win they have already earned. It's more that the player control is really evident.
At the end of that last game, bbyong really could and did just a move through to win. However he was already 60 supply ahead and couldn't be stopped. In general, the difficulties with ai as well as the years of experience mean that the difference proper planning and control makes is huge. A well positioned and well microed army is several times as effective as an A moved army in bw.
A great example is tanks. bw tanks are strong than sc2 tanks in terams of how effective their pure damage output is. However, the bw ai will simply make every tank fire at the first thing that comes in range. This means that a smart player can lead out with a few cheap units that will take the entire first volley of tank shots. In sc2, the ai will automatically avoid overkill and split your tank fire to spread over the opponents army. You can see this as a fault of the bw ai, but the result is that the good player who is able to stop their tanks from firing or manually focus fire different targets with different tanks is much much more effective with fewer units than the casual player.
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YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAH
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On May 21 2012 14:58 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 14:46 darklight54321 wrote:On May 21 2012 14:42 CursOr wrote:On May 21 2012 14:41 takingbackoj wrote:
Are BW Tvt's normally like this? Im not exactly sure whats going on but it looks like an intense contain. BW is different in that you usually dont lose over the course of 10 seconds, but like 8 minutes. It can be just as decisive, but the pathing makes it unfold more dynamically. another way to put this is Even after the game is won, the ai is so horrible that it takes the player minutes to get into position they can take advantage of the game being won, but reinforcements have already arrived. Now the player who's already won, barring a miracle, has to fight another battle he's almost guaranteed to win to finish off the game. People talk about how the pathfinding makes the game more dynamic and how the restrictions make the game more interesting, but i just see it as people who want the game to be over once it's over vs the people who just want to see if someoen makes a big mistake and loses a game they had won 15 minutes before. On May 21 2012 14:44 MegaFonzie wrote:On May 21 2012 14:38 darklight54321 wrote:On May 21 2012 14:33 sharky246 wrote:On May 21 2012 14:29 GreYMisT wrote:On May 21 2012 14:26 CursOr wrote:On May 21 2012 14:24 GreYMisT wrote:
Having to micro between two LR threads is hard -.-
Are we sure we can't just add another tab on the sidebar for Hybrid Proleague? haha. I just didnt want the SC2 crowd to miss that this was going on. And it wouldn't be right if this was under the thread that was used yesterday. I agree with that, its just that the general consensus before yesterday was that we should have 2 LR threads in both the BW and SC2 section. Its just a bit weird with the BW people in here explaining things and the SC2 people in the BW section and all the questions being answered 4 times in both threads But whatever, we are all here for starcraft. And Jaedong won, so all is right in the world Why would you do this?! read the LR for the opening day. One is full of excitement and even some what overzealous criticism. The other is full of hate. Most sc2 players, even if hey used to be big bw players, try to avoid the bw forums because no matter what bw is king. No matter what, the bw forum is always right about everything. I actually saw some people in the BW LR thread who I never in a million years would of thought would stick around for the sc2 section show genuine enthusiasm about the games. i'm not saying it's everyone, but there are a lot of people who are so closed to how good sc2 actually is that they are willing to bash their favorite players and teams just to try and feel good. It's not the AI. It's the much much more powerful high ground advantage and the abundance of units that can hold ground. Siege tanks are much more effective in BW, zerg has the lurker/defiler and protoss has the reaver. The only time any faction in SC2 had anything close to BW-level defense, khaydarin amulet got nerfed because of all the whining.
Also the need for less workers, less saturation, less guys on gas, bigger armies and more micro.. but I would put that pathing as the #1 difference.
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wtf baby, play standard you noob
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I just......I just want to flip efforts collar down so bad
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Too bad Effort can't play in sc2 today TT
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Oh boy, now we get to see Leta play Sc2!
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On May 21 2012 15:01 Tachion wrote:
I just......I just want to flip efforts collar down so bad
Why? It looks badass.
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On May 21 2012 15:01 MrCon wrote:
Too bad Effort can't play in sc2 today TT
He can in an ace match
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Why'd he gg? He forced a lot of lings and is still ahead because of MUL...
oh, right.
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United States23455 Posts
On May 21 2012 15:01 MrCon wrote:
Too bad Effort can't play in sc2 today TT
If Team 8 wins the SC2 Bo3, he can be used as ace.
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Let's hope they''ve updated their W7 for today's matches -_-
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EPT
