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On May 03 2012 20:45 Herry wrote:
Anyone complaining about PVP finals needs to go watch Bisu vs Stork 2007 MSL finals, and realise that if you put two titans up against each other, NO MATTER THE MATCH UP the games can still be epic.
BW is is a different game than SC2.
Comparing PvP in 2 different game is not smart.
PvP along with ZvZ possibly are the worst match-up.
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On May 03 2012 20:43 Asha` wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 20:42 Talin wrote:On May 03 2012 20:39 FakeDeath wrote:On May 03 2012 20:37 Talin wrote:On May 03 2012 20:36 HolyArrow wrote:On May 03 2012 20:35 Talin wrote:On May 03 2012 20:35 Asha` wrote:On May 03 2012 20:33 Talin wrote:On May 03 2012 20:30 Arceus wrote:On May 03 2012 20:29 Talin wrote:Can't wait for HerO to destroy this guy.  ppl claim that Squirtle got a 100% PvP. And hes really that good in mirror And none of the Ps he beat were HerO (since like a year ago). Hero's fundamentals are way better, as long as he doesn't get mindfucked by builds it won't even be close. Squirtle can't even land a freaking forcefield. -_- Squirtle is better than HerO lol In which segment of the game is Squirtle better than HerO specifically? PvP, obviously. I love Hero, but there's not really any case for him being better than Squirtle in PvP. PvP is a matchup, not a segment of the game. -_- What is Squirtle specifically better at, skill wise? Timing attacks and better understanding of the match-up. When it comes to mechanics and multitasking, Squirtle can basically sit down, it's not even within the realm of possibility that he can match HerO in those. And that's not something you can learn in a week either. I know you're a massive liquid fanboy, but you're speaking completely out of your ass rofl.
I can't see much expert commentary other than reading statistics and mvp wrist comments coming from you either. -_-
By the way, I heard NesTea destroyed DeMuslim mechanically that one time! Who would have thought, right?
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I hope something changes in the meta game soon because from what I've seen more and more Terrans seem to believe their best chance of winning is early attacks, which translates to proxy rax, marine scv all-ins, etc.
As a Protoss player I miss the days when you couldn't predict what would happen in the late game clashes. In the end, I just want more macro games.
Oh and although I love Parting, I (gasp!) will be rooting for MVP as I can't stand watching PvP. Hoping Zerg make a sharp return next season so we can dodge this many mirror matchups.
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On May 03 2012 20:45 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 20:43 Asha` wrote:On May 03 2012 20:42 Talin wrote:On May 03 2012 20:39 FakeDeath wrote:On May 03 2012 20:37 Talin wrote:On May 03 2012 20:36 HolyArrow wrote:On May 03 2012 20:35 Talin wrote:On May 03 2012 20:35 Asha` wrote:On May 03 2012 20:33 Talin wrote:On May 03 2012 20:30 Arceus wrote:
[quote]
ppl claim that Squirtle got a 100% PvP. And hes really that good in mirror And none of the Ps he beat were HerO (since like a year ago). Hero's fundamentals are way better, as long as he doesn't get mindfucked by builds it won't even be close. Squirtle can't even land a freaking forcefield. -_- Squirtle is better than HerO lol In which segment of the game is Squirtle better than HerO specifically? PvP, obviously. I love Hero, but there's not really any case for him being better than Squirtle in PvP. PvP is a matchup, not a segment of the game. -_- What is Squirtle specifically better at, skill wise? Timing attacks and better understanding of the match-up. When it comes to mechanics and multitasking, Squirtle can basically sit down, it's not even within the realm of possibility that he can match HerO in those. And that's not something you can learn in a week either. I know you're a massive liquid fanboy, but you're speaking completely out of your ass rofl. Not to mention that Talin conveniently ignored my mentioning of Squirtle's PvZ, which involves Squirtle doing stuff all over the map in ultra-lategame scenarios. Maybe he should address that point instead of conveniently ignoring it.
Yup looks like someone didn't watch the IPL4 replays. =D
People like Talin give players a bad name, and it is sad to see sometimes.
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On May 03 2012 20:41 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 20:40 Lysanias wrote:On May 03 2012 20:37 GodOfWar wrote:On May 03 2012 20:33 Talin wrote:On May 03 2012 20:30 Arceus wrote:On May 03 2012 20:29 Talin wrote:Can't wait for HerO to destroy this guy. ppl claim that Squirtle got a 100% PvP. And hes really that good in mirror And none of the Ps he beat were HerO (since like a year ago). Hero's fundamentals are way better, as long as he doesn't get mindfucked by builds it won't even be close. Squirtle can't even land a freaking forcefield. -_- dont fool yourself, Squirtle has best PvP right now, he owned MC, Oz etc... Just another step to the throne. And that matters now ? I mean do they play right now ? Nope so let's save these "Facts" for after the game, i like to see HerO get time to prepare aswell and then hit it off against Squirtle doing the same. After the results we can say who's got the better pvp, for now it's impossible to say. Pretty sure Squirtle is favored over Hero. Hero PvZ and PvT is sick but PvP is his weakest match-up. Squirtle has the best PvP currently.
just reminds me of Jjakji, and that his vP was so good but how was his current tvZ ? well we found out with some prep work.
I agree he might be fav but we can by no means say who will have the better pvp on the actual game day.
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On May 03 2012 20:44 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 20:38 Spiner wrote:On May 03 2012 20:36 Doublemint wrote:On May 03 2012 20:33 Spiner wrote:On May 03 2012 20:30 Doublemint wrote:On May 03 2012 20:28 Azzur wrote:
Terran 0-6 today A good day it was But I am astonished how Taeja let the last game slip out of his hands - baserace should have favored him quite a bit. How would the basetrade favor taeja? Squirtle had the better army and has forcfields to block ramps. He had OC, production and almost even worker count, while Squirtle had a better army but had to rebuild practically everything - you tell me? Actually squirtle was able to rebuild production faster than taeja because taeja was supply blocked for like five minutes. ? Taeja had a lot of minerals, SCVs and OC with mules AND a lot of barracks, while Squirtle had to wait for Nexus to finish - I don´t follow your trail of thoughts. Ps infrastructure got completely destroyed while T was able to save a lot of his buildings. Apart from the army(where Taeja had mobility but not the firepower) Taeja should have had the upper hand imho... but I am not in Code S or any Code so what do I know x-D
In retrospect Taeja could have built up a bigger army and teched, while forcing Squirtle to turtle, because if he moved out he would get doom dropped and if he left some of his army at home the rest of his army would get crushed.
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On May 03 2012 20:46 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 20:45 Herry wrote:
Anyone complaining about PVP finals needs to go watch Bisu vs Stork 2007 MSL finals, and realise that if you put two titans up against each other, NO MATTER THE MATCH UP the games can still be epic. BW is is a different game than SC2. Comparing PvP in 2 different game is not smart. PvP along with ZvZ possibly are the worst match-up.
You kind of missed my point but ok.
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On May 03 2012 20:37 xN.07)MaK wrote:
MVP > Naniwa: Bit-by-bit roflstomp
Parting > Oz: Roflstomp
Hero > Supernova: Roflstomp
Squirtle > Taeja: Roflstomp
Can this possibly be the worst RO8 ever?
Yes, as a viewer experience the RO8 matches have been disappointing.
Hopefully the semifinals and finals will provide better entertainment.
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On May 03 2012 20:45 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 20:44 FuzzyJAM wrote:On May 03 2012 20:42 Big J wrote:On May 03 2012 20:40 ZenithM wrote:On May 03 2012 20:40 Scarecrow wrote:On May 03 2012 20:38 sc2holar wrote:On May 03 2012 20:33 Jaegeru wrote:
Most likely going to be a PvP finals, this is going to be the worst GSL final ever. PvP is a good matchup nowdays, get with the times. It's still the worst mu in sc2 by a decent margin... ZvZ wants a word with you. ZvZ is awesome, not one of those sissy "hiding inside my base until I have 10000000000 tanks/colossus" matchups. I don't play Protoss, but I can tell you that TvT is not a "sissy matchup". You don't understand how tense StarCraft can get until you've played some 40 minute TvTs. I have it's not bad, but go and play 40mins ZvZ on TDA, THAT is tense.
you know nothing bout Terran dude.
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I honestly don't think mech needs a buff. Removing strike cannons along with thor energy would be enough I think.
chargelots and immortals are very good vs mech... Blink stalkers aren't made either. Plus you have to win that first engagement because protoss rebuilds 10x faster than mech. BCs are actually ok vs Protoss in numbers but no sane protoss will let you transition to it. BC switches seem only viable in TvT because tank lines allows time for that transition. However, tanks lines are impossible vs chargelots so you don't see that transition. Maybe need mass planetaries as well but warp prism will make things very hard. Especially on these bigger maps.
I think hellions needs to be slightly better vs charglots since they are suppose to be their counter...
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On May 03 2012 20:43 one-one-one wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 20:39 Amlitzer wrote:
If we end up with a PvP finals it will be the death of GOM. The only good that could come from it is hopefully blizzard will get their act together and stop needlessly buffing them already. As a spectator I'm tired of watching terrans MMM getting shredded, it would certainly be nice to see more mech play in the matchup. I honestly don't think mech needs a buff. Removing strike cannons along with thor energy would be enough I think.
That would actually be pretty smart. Me likes.
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On May 03 2012 20:48 Hall0wed wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 20:45 HolyArrow wrote:On May 03 2012 20:43 Asha` wrote:On May 03 2012 20:42 Talin wrote:On May 03 2012 20:39 FakeDeath wrote:On May 03 2012 20:37 Talin wrote:On May 03 2012 20:36 HolyArrow wrote:On May 03 2012 20:35 Talin wrote:On May 03 2012 20:35 Asha` wrote:On May 03 2012 20:33 Talin wrote:
[quote]
And none of the Ps he beat were HerO (since like a year ago). Hero's fundamentals are way better, as long as he doesn't get mindfucked by builds it won't even be close. Squirtle can't even land a freaking forcefield. -_- Squirtle is better than HerO lol In which segment of the game is Squirtle better than HerO specifically? PvP, obviously. I love Hero, but there's not really any case for him being better than Squirtle in PvP. PvP is a matchup, not a segment of the game. -_- What is Squirtle specifically better at, skill wise? Timing attacks and better understanding of the match-up. When it comes to mechanics and multitasking, Squirtle can basically sit down, it's not even within the realm of possibility that he can match HerO in those. And that's not something you can learn in a week either. I know you're a massive liquid fanboy, but you're speaking completely out of your ass rofl. Not to mention that Talin conveniently ignored my mentioning of Squirtle's PvZ, which involves Squirtle doing stuff all over the map in ultra-lategame scenarios. Maybe he should address that point instead of conveniently ignoring it. Yup looks like someone didn't watch the IPL4 replays. =D People like Talin give players a bad name, and it is sad to see sometimes.
I don't consider IPLs and MLGs all that relevant due to the format/density of games being played and no prep time, but I have seen it and it wasn't anything that a lot of Protoss don't do anyway, and certainly not something that HerO doesn't do a lot better (especially considering it's PvZ).
I'm prepared to get myself banned from TL if HerO doesn't dismantle Squirtle in every game that's not a straight up BO win (DT rush or Oz's nexus first from yesterday).
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On May 03 2012 20:50 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +I honestly don't think mech needs a buff. Removing strike cannons along with thor energy would be enough I think. chargelots and immortals are very good vs mech... Blink stalkers aren't made either. Plus you have to win that first engagement because protoss rebuilds 10x faster than mech. BCs are actually ok vs Protoss in numbers but no sane protoss will let you transition to it. BC switches seem only viable in TvT because tank lines allows time for that transition. However, tanks lines are impossible vs chargelots so you don't see that transition. Maybe need mass planetaries as well but warp prism will make things very hard. Especially on these bigger maps.
^I agree. It seems mech army's value steadily diminishes over time against Protoss. I can think of many Terran builds that involve mech like early hellion drops, 111 or 2 base tank pushes that must do damage in a very specific time frame or they have essentially lost.
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On May 03 2012 20:31 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 20:29 bittman wrote:On May 03 2012 20:28 Azzur wrote:
Terran 0-6 today People will unfortunately use this for balance whine despite the players who lost made mistakes whilst the players who won played great. Yea flawless transitions out of failed 4 gates and 1 base robo pressure. This is like shit that worked back in 2010, seems its come full circle.
Some people will always post politically correct stuff trying to sound ponderate and smart, especially on TL(for some reason), every game made is perfect and the winner always plays better so on and so forth.
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On May 03 2012 20:45 Jlei wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 20:43 one-one-one wrote:On May 03 2012 20:39 Amlitzer wrote:
If we end up with a PvP finals it will be the death of GOM. The only good that could come from it is hopefully blizzard will get their act together and stop needlessly buffing them already. As a spectator I'm tired of watching terrans MMM getting shredded, it would certainly be nice to see more mech play in the matchup. I honestly don't think mech needs a buff. Removing strike cannons along with thor energy would be enough I think. Feedback not hurting massive would also do it.
Yeah , no wonder high level terrans don't use higher tech units when there is feedback.
At the very least they could tweak it a little bit. T just needs a slight encouragement to begin experimenting with other stuff.
I mean, how realistic is it that high templar , who is some kind of priest , manages to short-circuit a mighty space ship with psionic abilities?
What kind of crappy space ship engineer designs their battlecruisers anyways...
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On May 03 2012 20:41 Asha` wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 20:40 ZenithM wrote:On May 03 2012 20:40 Scarecrow wrote:On May 03 2012 20:38 sc2holar wrote:On May 03 2012 20:33 Jaegeru wrote:
Most likely going to be a PvP finals, this is going to be the worst GSL final ever. PvP is a good matchup nowdays, get with the times. It's still the worst mu in sc2 by a decent margin... ZvZ wants a word with you. ZvZ is miles better than PvP? :O Just watch some of the awesome series from the EWM recently <3
Meh, I don't know, it's maybe just that I don't understand ZvZ enough (I played P for a long time before switching to the coolest race *wink*wink*). Most of the time if it reaches midgame it seems that one guy has somehow more drones, for obscure reasons (I'm not too satisfied with "Well, he droned more" :D) and then starts to mass more roaches and infestors than his opponent.
PvP is quite straightforward from a spectator point of view, and there is a fair amount of cool tactics and micro and it's overall quite enjoyable.
Regardless, I've seen some awesome ZvZ series, it's not like I find the matchup hopeless. Just confusing most of the time, and I think it's not just me, it's confusing for the players too :D
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
On May 03 2012 20:52 Salteador Neo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 20:43 one-one-one wrote:On May 03 2012 20:39 Amlitzer wrote:
If we end up with a PvP finals it will be the death of GOM. The only good that could come from it is hopefully blizzard will get their act together and stop needlessly buffing them already. As a spectator I'm tired of watching terrans MMM getting shredded, it would certainly be nice to see more mech play in the matchup. I honestly don't think mech needs a buff. Removing strike cannons along with thor energy would be enough I think. That would actually be pretty smart. Me likes.
That won't change anything. Yes, thors being immune to feedback will be helpful, but immortals are just too good against them. As long as Blizzard keeps enforcing their current counter system, mech will never be a viable option vs P.
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On May 03 2012 20:52 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 20:48 Hall0wed wrote:On May 03 2012 20:45 HolyArrow wrote:On May 03 2012 20:43 Asha` wrote:On May 03 2012 20:42 Talin wrote:On May 03 2012 20:39 FakeDeath wrote:On May 03 2012 20:37 Talin wrote:On May 03 2012 20:36 HolyArrow wrote:On May 03 2012 20:35 Talin wrote:On May 03 2012 20:35 Asha` wrote:
[quote]
Squirtle is better than HerO lol In which segment of the game is Squirtle better than HerO specifically? PvP, obviously. I love Hero, but there's not really any case for him being better than Squirtle in PvP. PvP is a matchup, not a segment of the game. -_- What is Squirtle specifically better at, skill wise? Timing attacks and better understanding of the match-up. When it comes to mechanics and multitasking, Squirtle can basically sit down, it's not even within the realm of possibility that he can match HerO in those. And that's not something you can learn in a week either. I know you're a massive liquid fanboy, but you're speaking completely out of your ass rofl. Not to mention that Talin conveniently ignored my mentioning of Squirtle's PvZ, which involves Squirtle doing stuff all over the map in ultra-lategame scenarios. Maybe he should address that point instead of conveniently ignoring it. Yup looks like someone didn't watch the IPL4 replays. =D People like Talin give players a bad name, and it is sad to see sometimes. I don't consider IPLs and MLGs all that relevant due to the format/density of games being played and no prep time, but I have seen it and it wasn't anything that a lot of Protoss don't do anyway, and certainly not something that HerO doesn't do a lot better (especially considering it's PvZ). I'm prepared to get myself banned from TL if HerO doesn't dismantle Squirtle in every game that's not a straight up BO win (DT rush or Oz's nexus first from yesterday).
And do tell how format/density/prep time has ANYTHING to do with multitasking, which you keep claiming Squirtle lacks? I'm just gonna reiterate what Asha said: You're talking out of your ass.
Please stop making yourself look silly, it's painful.
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On May 03 2012 20:41 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 20:37 Fubi wrote:On May 03 2012 20:33 Rainfall7711 wrote:
Isn't it ironic. I remember a few months back everyone was sick of Terrans and TvT. Protoss dominates most Terran one season everyone gets pitch forks about balance and are now rooting for the Terran LOL. Because objectively speaking, TvT is actually a decent matchup, we were only sick of it because we had too much of it. PvP on the other hand... Stop this "PvP sucks" mentality thats been around since the Beta. The matchup has evolved alot and the days of 4gate vs 4gate are far gone. PvP is actually one of the most skill-intensive matchups in the game. And definitely the most Micro intensive. The only part about PvP thats not so entertaining is the lategame (colossus vs colossus, best spread wins)
You're right about PvP being a very hard matchup. But it is painful to watch nevertheless. It doesn't have much room for harassment, multi-pronged action, comebacks, etc.
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O.o, I was rank ~100 in liquibet, but I betted every single semifinal wrong. 
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EPT
