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Please have some respect for the players, teams, and tournament.
Criticism is fine, criticism without anything to back it up isn't so cool.
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It does seem like foreigners lose to standard pressure from Koreans far more often than they would if that pressure came from someone they knew they could beat. I don't know if it's just mental or there's some subtle difference in the handling of the hellions that explains it.
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PuMa looking very strong in G2 against Socke on Entombed Valley.
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Grubby build fucking robo please
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On March 25 2012 10:58 Hamdemon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 10:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 25 2012 10:48 Hamdemon wrote:On March 25 2012 10:39 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 25 2012 10:36 nvs. wrote:On March 25 2012 10:34 megapants wrote:On March 25 2012 10:30 MooMu wrote:On March 25 2012 10:26 Hamdemon wrote:
I've missed the first day and a half of this tourney and feel like I've missed nothing. Blah blah blah koreans blah blah HuK blah Naniwa blah blah. A little interesting to see some new faces in the upper bracket though but they're just gonna get crushed 2-0 in lopsided matches. MLG should really be an NA tourney imo, does everyone really want to see the same 8 korean players or so who are well funded crushing through a bunch of fodder? Championship sunday is seeming more and more like the only point to these things.
(okay sorry for being a cynic but I've had a bad day) Take a shot or a toke, bro  For real bro just chillax majorly harsh buzzkill NA only? So no ret, TLO, Grubby, Thorzain, Hasu, etc. etc. Sounds 1000x worse LOL. No one would pay to watch a NA tournament, no one would sponsor it, no one would care about it. Koreans are going to keep getting invited because people like watching them, they bring viewers and viewers bring money. To say nothing of the fact that any tournament that prevents legitimate competition from entering is something no one would feel crazy about winning. My point is more out of frustration that I feel the NA scene is hampered by a general lack of ability to get anywhere, we're being choped off at the legs. The only way to prove yourself is to be able to beat koreans, and realistically if our ladder is really worse and our players are worse, how are we supposed to improve? I just saw IdrA and Ostojiy fold like an accordion to basic hellion pressure that didn't even look that impressive to me. The koreans have GSL and the GSTL and a proleague coming up IN KOREA. We have a bunch of tourneys that for now, are just going to be flying koreans and a few really good euro players to utterly crush anything we have. We need our own dedicated league and every time we set one it gets filled up with koreans. We don't have pro houses where a group of 12 people are practicing 80+ hours a week strategizing together, and even if we did it'd take a while to catch up. The NA scene needs a shot in the arm by someone willing to give a decent place for NA players to grow without having to face up against the top-tier koreans just yet. We should at least have some sort of "minor league" that is consistent so that we can grow. I know it's not always korean vs foreigners, but they have infastructure and a culture setup that currently, we can't compete with until we grow seperately. Well then you should be looking to simply create more small scale leagues. Koreans aren't going to bother showing up to events if it isn't worth it for them. There's no reason there can't be a semi-pro North American league (the NASL comes to mind) that is smaller scale with less financial incentive to draw in the big Korean boys, but you're still going to have to contend with European pros. Basically as long as people can make money, they're going to pursue it. The incentive to improve has to be beyond simply making money. That's the big difference about the Koreans and the North Americans. The people over there legitimately care about improving, and being the best. Over here, the motivation is about being able to make money. The problem is the NASL like you said, along with MLG, were intially mostly americans, and now it's pretty much korean domination now that they've gotten big enough to afford to fly them in. Small scale leagues are great and I'm glad we have those, but you are now even seeing koreans playing on the NA ladder for stuff like Playhem which make it again impossible for NA to grow. Just my 2 cents though. Euro pros I feel are on the same level as Americans, maybe a bit above because their welfare system allows people to spend more time gaming, less time in a real job. That might be a broad generalization but you can't just say "Hey I'm gonna be a pro gamer" and play 80 hours a week unless it's profitable over here.
Competition forces improvement.
Complacency allows stagnation.
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Puma's bio control vs Protoss is so beautiful.
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Puma ties it 1-1 against Socke
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On March 25 2012 10:58 Hamdemon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 10:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 25 2012 10:48 Hamdemon wrote:On March 25 2012 10:39 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 25 2012 10:36 nvs. wrote:On March 25 2012 10:34 megapants wrote:On March 25 2012 10:30 MooMu wrote:On March 25 2012 10:26 Hamdemon wrote:
I've missed the first day and a half of this tourney and feel like I've missed nothing. Blah blah blah koreans blah blah HuK blah Naniwa blah blah. A little interesting to see some new faces in the upper bracket though but they're just gonna get crushed 2-0 in lopsided matches. MLG should really be an NA tourney imo, does everyone really want to see the same 8 korean players or so who are well funded crushing through a bunch of fodder? Championship sunday is seeming more and more like the only point to these things.
(okay sorry for being a cynic but I've had a bad day) Take a shot or a toke, bro For real bro just chillax majorly harsh buzzkill NA only? So no ret, TLO, Grubby, Thorzain, Hasu, etc. etc. Sounds 1000x worse LOL. No one would pay to watch a NA tournament, no one would sponsor it, no one would care about it. Koreans are going to keep getting invited because people like watching them, they bring viewers and viewers bring money. To say nothing of the fact that any tournament that prevents legitimate competition from entering is something no one would feel crazy about winning. My point is more out of frustration that I feel the NA scene is hampered by a general lack of ability to get anywhere, we're being choped off at the legs. The only way to prove yourself is to be able to beat koreans, and realistically if our ladder is really worse and our players are worse, how are we supposed to improve? I just saw IdrA and Ostojiy fold like an accordion to basic hellion pressure that didn't even look that impressive to me. The koreans have GSL and the GSTL and a proleague coming up IN KOREA. We have a bunch of tourneys that for now, are just going to be flying koreans and a few really good euro players to utterly crush anything we have. We need our own dedicated league and every time we set one it gets filled up with koreans. We don't have pro houses where a group of 12 people are practicing 80+ hours a week strategizing together, and even if we did it'd take a while to catch up. The NA scene needs a shot in the arm by someone willing to give a decent place for NA players to grow without having to face up against the top-tier koreans just yet. We should at least have some sort of "minor league" that is consistent so that we can grow. I know it's not always korean vs foreigners, but they have infastructure and a culture setup that currently, we can't compete with until we grow seperately. Well then you should be looking to simply create more small scale leagues. Koreans aren't going to bother showing up to events if it isn't worth it for them. There's no reason there can't be a semi-pro North American league (the NASL comes to mind) that is smaller scale with less financial incentive to draw in the big Korean boys, but you're still going to have to contend with European pros. Basically as long as people can make money, they're going to pursue it. The incentive to improve has to be beyond simply making money. That's the big difference about the Koreans and the North Americans. The people over there legitimately care about improving, and being the best. Over here, the motivation is about being able to make money. Euro pros I feel are on the same level as Americans, maybe a bit above because their welfare system allows people to spend more time gaming, less time in a real job.
This resentful, almost spiteful attitude you have that comes through oh so clearly in this sentence. that right there is the real problem. Something Americans need to fix on their own.
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On March 25 2012 10:58 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 10:57 StarStruck wrote:On March 25 2012 10:31 Wombat_NI wrote:On March 25 2012 10:29 StarStruck wrote:On March 25 2012 10:25 jmbthirteen wrote:On March 25 2012 10:24 StarStruck wrote:On March 25 2012 10:22 darkscream wrote:On March 25 2012 10:22 Serpico wrote:On March 25 2012 10:21 Fionn wrote:On March 25 2012 10:20 MVTaylor wrote:
Grubby vs Select, I'll take that as last match of the night. Better than showing some awful / one sided drivel like Ostojiy vs Polt Ostojiy beat Puma. Who knows. But Polt's TvZ I would put ahead of Puma. agreed, looking for puma to improve there as well. yeah, you could say he needs to refine his timings puma is a player who's built around BOs. LMAO you couldnt be more wrong. Puma has absolutely INCREDIBLE control His game is centered around his build orders man especially TvP, but you keep telling yourself that. EVERY Stracraft player has build orders, what the hell kind of point are you trying to make? Hitting timings, especially in TvP with the supremacy of deathballs + mass gateway warpin reinforcements mean it's a necessity in series play. Puma is known for his really good army control, sniping every templar, and seemingly spotting every single obs over his army. No, man. He is very build order centric. The vast majority of the games I've seen him play are geared this way. When he loses his lack of control and decisionmaking with positioning his army is always at the forefront. Goes beyond obs sniping and ghost picks. Puma made his name with his late game nous in TvP at NASL season 1 finals, playing many standard long games where it goes beyond executing a build order. He has a lot of good builds that he can throw out, which is a good skill to have in BoX formats
Oh fun, now we get to talk about the NASL. I'm looking at his full body of work. Not just a couple of games. More often than not where does the emphasis lie? Build order win and yes he has a few of them that he likes to use to fuck with your mind.
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so i have a starcraft related quandry. i know that a lot of you struggle with left-overs, and i was just wondering, if i put my left-overs in my fridge and then leave them there are a couple decades, when i open the fridge can i expect a space monster ala cowboy bebop to climb out and eat everyone? i'm guessing no, which is a disappointment to me
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Wow have yo guys been checking out the Halo stream? Talk about hype, the crowds and gameplay are crazy!
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On March 25 2012 11:01 IgnE wrote:
It does seem like foreigners lose to standard pressure from Koreans far more often than they would if that pressure came from someone they knew they could beat. I don't know if it's just mental or there's some subtle difference in the handling of the hellions that explains it.
I don't see anything special either. Just 4 hellions pushign past a spine crawler and they all fold up. Polt's done nothing to impress me so far this weekend, and he's gonna get wrecked once he faces another korean imo.
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On March 25 2012 11:01 Aemilia wrote:
Puma's bio control vs Protoss is so beautiful.
dont tell StarStruck. that was a BO win man...
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On March 25 2012 11:01 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 10:58 Wombat_NI wrote:On March 25 2012 10:57 StarStruck wrote:On March 25 2012 10:31 Wombat_NI wrote:On March 25 2012 10:29 StarStruck wrote:On March 25 2012 10:25 jmbthirteen wrote:On March 25 2012 10:24 StarStruck wrote:On March 25 2012 10:22 darkscream wrote:On March 25 2012 10:22 Serpico wrote:On March 25 2012 10:21 Fionn wrote:
[quote]
Ostojiy beat Puma. Who knows.
But Polt's TvZ I would put ahead of Puma. agreed, looking for puma to improve there as well. yeah, you could say he needs to refine his timings puma is a player who's built around BOs. LMAO you couldnt be more wrong. Puma has absolutely INCREDIBLE control His game is centered around his build orders man especially TvP, but you keep telling yourself that. EVERY Stracraft player has build orders, what the hell kind of point are you trying to make? Hitting timings, especially in TvP with the supremacy of deathballs + mass gateway warpin reinforcements mean it's a necessity in series play. Puma is known for his really good army control, sniping every templar, and seemingly spotting every single obs over his army. No, man. He is very build order centric. The vast majority of the games I've seen him play are geared this way. When he loses his lack of control and decisionmaking with positioning his army is always at the forefront. Goes beyond obs sniping and ghost picks. Puma made his name with his late game nous in TvP at NASL season 1 finals, playing many standard long games where it goes beyond executing a build order. He has a lot of good builds that he can throw out, which is a good skill to have in BoX formats Oh fun, now we get to talk about the NASL. I'm looking at his full body of work. Not just a couple of games. More often than not where does the emphasis lie? Build order win and yes he has a few of them that he likes to use to fuck with your mind.
let me guess, you are one of the guys who thinks Puma 1/1/1's all the time too?
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On March 25 2012 11:01 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 10:58 Hamdemon wrote:On March 25 2012 10:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 25 2012 10:48 Hamdemon wrote:On March 25 2012 10:39 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 25 2012 10:36 nvs. wrote:On March 25 2012 10:34 megapants wrote:On March 25 2012 10:30 MooMu wrote:On March 25 2012 10:26 Hamdemon wrote:
I've missed the first day and a half of this tourney and feel like I've missed nothing. Blah blah blah koreans blah blah HuK blah Naniwa blah blah. A little interesting to see some new faces in the upper bracket though but they're just gonna get crushed 2-0 in lopsided matches. MLG should really be an NA tourney imo, does everyone really want to see the same 8 korean players or so who are well funded crushing through a bunch of fodder? Championship sunday is seeming more and more like the only point to these things.
(okay sorry for being a cynic but I've had a bad day) Take a shot or a toke, bro For real bro just chillax majorly harsh buzzkill NA only? So no ret, TLO, Grubby, Thorzain, Hasu, etc. etc. Sounds 1000x worse LOL. No one would pay to watch a NA tournament, no one would sponsor it, no one would care about it. Koreans are going to keep getting invited because people like watching them, they bring viewers and viewers bring money. To say nothing of the fact that any tournament that prevents legitimate competition from entering is something no one would feel crazy about winning. My point is more out of frustration that I feel the NA scene is hampered by a general lack of ability to get anywhere, we're being choped off at the legs. The only way to prove yourself is to be able to beat koreans, and realistically if our ladder is really worse and our players are worse, how are we supposed to improve? I just saw IdrA and Ostojiy fold like an accordion to basic hellion pressure that didn't even look that impressive to me. The koreans have GSL and the GSTL and a proleague coming up IN KOREA. We have a bunch of tourneys that for now, are just going to be flying koreans and a few really good euro players to utterly crush anything we have. We need our own dedicated league and every time we set one it gets filled up with koreans. We don't have pro houses where a group of 12 people are practicing 80+ hours a week strategizing together, and even if we did it'd take a while to catch up. The NA scene needs a shot in the arm by someone willing to give a decent place for NA players to grow without having to face up against the top-tier koreans just yet. We should at least have some sort of "minor league" that is consistent so that we can grow. I know it's not always korean vs foreigners, but they have infastructure and a culture setup that currently, we can't compete with until we grow seperately. Well then you should be looking to simply create more small scale leagues. Koreans aren't going to bother showing up to events if it isn't worth it for them. There's no reason there can't be a semi-pro North American league (the NASL comes to mind) that is smaller scale with less financial incentive to draw in the big Korean boys, but you're still going to have to contend with European pros. Basically as long as people can make money, they're going to pursue it. The incentive to improve has to be beyond simply making money. That's the big difference about the Koreans and the North Americans. The people over there legitimately care about improving, and being the best. Over here, the motivation is about being able to make money. Euro pros I feel are on the same level as Americans, maybe a bit above because their welfare system allows people to spend more time gaming, less time in a real job. This resentful, almost spiteful attitude you have that comes through oh so clearly in this sentence. that right there is the real problem. Something Americans need to fix on their own.
LOL Euros are better because of their wellfare system? You sir are hilarious.
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Well, that was an awful tournament for Grubby. He had the toughest Pool group though, and could've surely done better results against non-koreans.
But well, still pretty sad.
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Happy for Select, sad for Grubby. I dont want to see either leave 
Good to see Select seeming to be back on his game in 2012, at least I hope so and this isn't just a flash in the pan.
Goooooo uhhhh...both of you, game 3 please!
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also, what if dark templar could fly
this is a serious question, not a troll. maybe just a reaper-esc upgrade jumping cliffs
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Canada13407 Posts
GG grubby
Not really yet but theres no chance for grubby now 30ish probes dead
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On March 25 2012 11:01 nvs. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 10:58 Hamdemon wrote:On March 25 2012 10:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 25 2012 10:48 Hamdemon wrote:On March 25 2012 10:39 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 25 2012 10:36 nvs. wrote:On March 25 2012 10:34 megapants wrote:On March 25 2012 10:30 MooMu wrote:On March 25 2012 10:26 Hamdemon wrote:
I've missed the first day and a half of this tourney and feel like I've missed nothing. Blah blah blah koreans blah blah HuK blah Naniwa blah blah. A little interesting to see some new faces in the upper bracket though but they're just gonna get crushed 2-0 in lopsided matches. MLG should really be an NA tourney imo, does everyone really want to see the same 8 korean players or so who are well funded crushing through a bunch of fodder? Championship sunday is seeming more and more like the only point to these things.
(okay sorry for being a cynic but I've had a bad day) Take a shot or a toke, bro For real bro just chillax majorly harsh buzzkill NA only? So no ret, TLO, Grubby, Thorzain, Hasu, etc. etc. Sounds 1000x worse LOL. No one would pay to watch a NA tournament, no one would sponsor it, no one would care about it. Koreans are going to keep getting invited because people like watching them, they bring viewers and viewers bring money. To say nothing of the fact that any tournament that prevents legitimate competition from entering is something no one would feel crazy about winning. My point is more out of frustration that I feel the NA scene is hampered by a general lack of ability to get anywhere, we're being choped off at the legs. The only way to prove yourself is to be able to beat koreans, and realistically if our ladder is really worse and our players are worse, how are we supposed to improve? I just saw IdrA and Ostojiy fold like an accordion to basic hellion pressure that didn't even look that impressive to me. The koreans have GSL and the GSTL and a proleague coming up IN KOREA. We have a bunch of tourneys that for now, are just going to be flying koreans and a few really good euro players to utterly crush anything we have. We need our own dedicated league and every time we set one it gets filled up with koreans. We don't have pro houses where a group of 12 people are practicing 80+ hours a week strategizing together, and even if we did it'd take a while to catch up. The NA scene needs a shot in the arm by someone willing to give a decent place for NA players to grow without having to face up against the top-tier koreans just yet. We should at least have some sort of "minor league" that is consistent so that we can grow. I know it's not always korean vs foreigners, but they have infastructure and a culture setup that currently, we can't compete with until we grow seperately. Well then you should be looking to simply create more small scale leagues. Koreans aren't going to bother showing up to events if it isn't worth it for them. There's no reason there can't be a semi-pro North American league (the NASL comes to mind) that is smaller scale with less financial incentive to draw in the big Korean boys, but you're still going to have to contend with European pros. Basically as long as people can make money, they're going to pursue it. The incentive to improve has to be beyond simply making money. That's the big difference about the Koreans and the North Americans. The people over there legitimately care about improving, and being the best. Over here, the motivation is about being able to make money. The problem is the NASL like you said, along with MLG, were intially mostly americans, and now it's pretty much korean domination now that they've gotten big enough to afford to fly them in. Small scale leagues are great and I'm glad we have those, but you are now even seeing koreans playing on the NA ladder for stuff like Playhem which make it again impossible for NA to grow. Just my 2 cents though. Euro pros I feel are on the same level as Americans, maybe a bit above because their welfare system allows people to spend more time gaming, less time in a real job. That might be a broad generalization but you can't just say "Hey I'm gonna be a pro gamer" and play 80 hours a week unless it's profitable over here. Competition forces improvement. Complacency allows stagnation.
This is pretty much how I feel. What are they supposed to do, lose on purpose because foreigners aren't good enough to win competitive tournaments?
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EPT
