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On February 03 2012 12:52 Heavenly wrote:
Last time I checked planetary fortresses aren't hero units, and it was like 75 to 75 workers before Kas sacrificed ~10. He could have easily sacrificed more with the amount of mules he had and gone for one massive army instead of constantly trading inefficiently.
As long as I remember, he sacrified much more than just 10...
AND toss army was completely EMPed. Completely. Moreover, warpins of 8(!!!!) Arcons at a time. Isn't it ridiculous? It's like +8 thors for terran or +8 ultras for zerg. RIDICULOUS.
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On February 03 2012 13:00 dragonborn wrote:
thats how you deal with protoss late game.
take notes terran players.
he's behind....
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On February 03 2012 13:00 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 12:56 Bagration wrote:On February 03 2012 12:55 xrapture wrote:On February 03 2012 12:52 Heavenly wrote:On February 03 2012 12:51 AnarionSC2 wrote:On February 03 2012 12:46 Heavenly wrote:
Lmao at people balance whining when like 12 3/3/3 archons were dealing damage way before any EMPs went down in that engagement(and still very few did) and there were more colossi than vikings. Pretty sure Creator's army cost a LOT more, Kas had some planetaries down at bases not even mining, he was floating thousands of gas, etc. Having planetaries at bases doesn't make that an actual mining base. Not only Kas had 2 planetary, his overall army limit was like at least 30 more due to mules. Last time I checked planetary fortresses aren't hero units, and it was like 75 to 75 workers before Kas sacrificed ~10. He could have easily sacrificed more with the amount of mules he had and gone for one massive army instead of constantly trading inefficiently. On February 03 2012 12:51 IMoperator wrote:On February 03 2012 12:49 Heavenly wrote:On February 03 2012 12:47 s3rp wrote:On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote:
It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources. You litterally have to wait in a great position for the toss to run into you while having at least even expansions. And once in a while you drop some stuff to keep them honest. Or maybe you should EMP the 10-15 fully upgraded archons? Or had more vikings than your opponent has colossi? Yes, because 100 less shield energy on 10-15 fully upgraded archons are going to help. You need an obscene number of ghosts to blanket emp those archons and zealots. Cool, you also need an obscene number of high templar to have 15 archons. Ghosts are also pretty good against zealot warpins. Doesn't that seem strange to you? So Terran needs to sacrifice dozens of workers, blanket emp all the archons and zealots, and even when engaging next to 2 Planaterys with a larger army it still might not be enough? Terrans should not allow Protoss to reach that point. It is like the Sauron Toss styler: Once a critical mass is reached, game over. The problem is 3 Bases is enough for Protoss to reach the GG-Ball and there are some Map out there that basically gift basket everybody 3 Bases.
yeah because otherwise tvz would be so hard
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On February 03 2012 12:55 Heavenly wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 12:54 IMoperator wrote:On February 03 2012 12:52 Heavenly wrote:On February 03 2012 12:51 AnarionSC2 wrote:On February 03 2012 12:46 Heavenly wrote:
Lmao at people balance whining when like 12 3/3/3 archons were dealing damage way before any EMPs went down in that engagement(and still very few did) and there were more colossi than vikings. Pretty sure Creator's army cost a LOT more, Kas had some planetaries down at bases not even mining, he was floating thousands of gas, etc. Having planetaries at bases doesn't make that an actual mining base. Not only Kas had 2 planetary, his overall army limit was like at least 30 more due to mules. Last time I checked planetary fortresses aren't hero units, and it was like 75 to 75 workers before Kas sacrificed ~10. He could have easily sacrificed more with the amount of mules he had and gone for one massive army instead of constantly trading inefficiently. And then hope to kill creator's whole army AND his 20+ reinforcing zealots and 3 colossi? Yes? Because his army could have been 50 supply more, pretty sure that can handle 20 reinforcing zealots. Was there a patch where you can warp in 3 colossi as well or what? An army with 50 more supply is significantly, significantly stronger.
It's called chrono boost and 3 robos. I don't understand how you keep this up, that game showed everything wrong with the matchup, not necessarily imbalance either, it's just poorly designed.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On February 03 2012 12:56 vndods wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 12:55 lichter wrote:On February 03 2012 12:52 IMoperator wrote:On February 03 2012 12:52 lichter wrote:
In entrenched positions I've no idea why Terran still sticks with MMGV. They just get slaughtered by AOE. what else works? I'm not going to suggest anything *cough*ArtosisMech *cough*, but if MMGV isn't working in really really late game then Terran needs to adjust and find a new composition. Just like what the other races have done (which is to evolve their compositions). theres a reason why MVP says mech is impossible vs Protoss and Goody resorting to bio vs Protoss.
Note that I mention: in entrenched positions when you can't attack and he can't attack. Mech vs Protoss is hopeless because of warp ins and mobility, but when you are at a stalement I don't see why it isn't a reasonable transition? Again I'm not advocating the use of Mech in TvP as standard, but as a transition in super late game, because mech is more efficient than bio, but less mobile. TvP is lowtech mass units vs hightech + meatshields, and the advantage of lowtech should be quicker reinforcements, but it doesn't work because of warpgates (not balance whine). Aside from mobility, I don't see the point of staying on MMGV at super late game unless you can abuse that mobility.
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On February 03 2012 13:01 Badfatpanda wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 12:55 Heavenly wrote:On February 03 2012 12:54 IMoperator wrote:On February 03 2012 12:52 Heavenly wrote:On February 03 2012 12:51 AnarionSC2 wrote:On February 03 2012 12:46 Heavenly wrote:
Lmao at people balance whining when like 12 3/3/3 archons were dealing damage way before any EMPs went down in that engagement(and still very few did) and there were more colossi than vikings. Pretty sure Creator's army cost a LOT more, Kas had some planetaries down at bases not even mining, he was floating thousands of gas, etc. Having planetaries at bases doesn't make that an actual mining base. Not only Kas had 2 planetary, his overall army limit was like at least 30 more due to mules. Last time I checked planetary fortresses aren't hero units, and it was like 75 to 75 workers before Kas sacrificed ~10. He could have easily sacrificed more with the amount of mules he had and gone for one massive army instead of constantly trading inefficiently. And then hope to kill creator's whole army AND his 20+ reinforcing zealots and 3 colossi? Yes? Because his army could have been 50 supply more, pretty sure that can handle 20 reinforcing zealots. Was there a patch where you can warp in 3 colossi as well or what? An army with 50 more supply is significantly, significantly stronger. It's called chrono boost and 3 robos. I don't understand how you keep this up, that game showed everything wrong with the matchup, not necessarily imbalance either, it's just poorly designed.
it may not be imba, but poor design can lead to imba , just btw ><
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On February 03 2012 13:00 vndods wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 12:59 Heavenly wrote:On February 03 2012 12:58 vndods wrote:On February 03 2012 12:57 Heavenly wrote:On February 03 2012 12:55 xrapture wrote:On February 03 2012 12:52 Heavenly wrote:On February 03 2012 12:51 AnarionSC2 wrote:On February 03 2012 12:46 Heavenly wrote:
Lmao at people balance whining when like 12 3/3/3 archons were dealing damage way before any EMPs went down in that engagement(and still very few did) and there were more colossi than vikings. Pretty sure Creator's army cost a LOT more, Kas had some planetaries down at bases not even mining, he was floating thousands of gas, etc. Having planetaries at bases doesn't make that an actual mining base. Not only Kas had 2 planetary, his overall army limit was like at least 30 more due to mules. Last time I checked planetary fortresses aren't hero units, and it was like 75 to 75 workers before Kas sacrificed ~10. He could have easily sacrificed more with the amount of mules he had and gone for one massive army instead of constantly trading inefficiently. On February 03 2012 12:51 IMoperator wrote:On February 03 2012 12:49 Heavenly wrote:On February 03 2012 12:47 s3rp wrote:On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote:
It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources. You litterally have to wait in a great position for the toss to run into you while having at least even expansions. And once in a while you drop some stuff to keep them honest. Or maybe you should EMP the 10-15 fully upgraded archons? Or had more vikings than your opponent has colossi? Yes, because 100 less shield energy on 10-15 fully upgraded archons are going to help. You need an obscene number of ghosts to blanket emp those archons and zealots. Cool, you also need an obscene number of high templar to have 15 archons. Ghosts are also pretty good against zealot warpins. Doesn't that seem strange to you? So Terran needs to sacrifice dozens of workers, blanket emp all the archons and zealots, and even when engaging next to 2 Planaterys with a larger army it still might not be enough? Um, no? Why would that be strange? Did you see the income tab where the workers were even but it was 3000 minerals to 1800 minerals per second? Blanket EMP all of the archons and zealots, no, I dont think that's strange either, you have a unit that removes the shield from a unit that is primarily shields, and they are also fairly good against zealots in straight up combat too. Go to a unit tester map and have equal number of ghosts vs zealots straight up. I dare you. Last time I checked I wasn't talking about ghosts versus zealots in a straight up fight, so why would I ever do that? Terran could have had a significantly larger army than he had if he sacrificed his workers. "and they are also fairly good against zealots in straight up combat too."
Context? There could have been an additional 10 ghosts and many more vikings for Kas and it would have been pretty one-sided. I didn't say 10 ghosts will beat 10 chargelots, but 10 additional ghosts in Kas' maxed army versus the army of Creator Prime would have given him a significantly better army, and those ghosts in combination with the rest of the surviving army could take out the reinforcing zealots.
On February 03 2012 13:01 Badfatpanda wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 12:55 Heavenly wrote:On February 03 2012 12:54 IMoperator wrote:On February 03 2012 12:52 Heavenly wrote:On February 03 2012 12:51 AnarionSC2 wrote:On February 03 2012 12:46 Heavenly wrote:
Lmao at people balance whining when like 12 3/3/3 archons were dealing damage way before any EMPs went down in that engagement(and still very few did) and there were more colossi than vikings. Pretty sure Creator's army cost a LOT more, Kas had some planetaries down at bases not even mining, he was floating thousands of gas, etc. Having planetaries at bases doesn't make that an actual mining base. Not only Kas had 2 planetary, his overall army limit was like at least 30 more due to mules. Last time I checked planetary fortresses aren't hero units, and it was like 75 to 75 workers before Kas sacrificed ~10. He could have easily sacrificed more with the amount of mules he had and gone for one massive army instead of constantly trading inefficiently. And then hope to kill creator's whole army AND his 20+ reinforcing zealots and 3 colossi? Yes? Because his army could have been 50 supply more, pretty sure that can handle 20 reinforcing zealots. Was there a patch where you can warp in 3 colossi as well or what? An army with 50 more supply is significantly, significantly stronger. It's called chrono boost and 3 robos. I don't understand how you keep this up, that game showed everything wrong with the matchup, not necessarily imbalance either, it's just poorly designed.
You were acting like Creator could instantly reinforce his army with 20 zealots as well as those 3 colossi, no, those colossi have to build. His ability to build colossi doesn't matter whatsoever in this situation. Kas can also build 6 vikings at a time with three reactored starports, what does that matter? And that game showed that a significantly more expensive army with non-EMPed archons and not many vikings versus like 8 colossi wins.
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On February 03 2012 13:00 dragonborn wrote:
thats how you deal with protoss late game.
take notes terran players.
Creator didn't even lose yet.
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Happy vs ToD all over again 
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On February 03 2012 13:02 OtoshimonoU wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 13:00 dragonborn wrote:
thats how you deal with protoss late game.
take notes terran players. Creator didn't even lose yet.
We want the ace match 
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On February 03 2012 13:01 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 12:56 vndods wrote:On February 03 2012 12:55 lichter wrote:On February 03 2012 12:52 IMoperator wrote:On February 03 2012 12:52 lichter wrote:
In entrenched positions I've no idea why Terran still sticks with MMGV. They just get slaughtered by AOE. what else works? I'm not going to suggest anything *cough*ArtosisMech *cough*, but if MMGV isn't working in really really late game then Terran needs to adjust and find a new composition. Just like what the other races have done (which is to evolve their compositions). theres a reason why MVP says mech is impossible vs Protoss and Goody resorting to bio vs Protoss. Note that I mention: in entrenched positions when you can't attack and he can't attack. Mech vs Protoss is hopeless because of warp ins and mobility, but when you are at a stalement I don't see why it isn't a reasonable transition? Again I'm not advocating the use of Mech in TvP as standard, but as a transition in super late game, because mech is more efficient than bio, but less mobile. TvP is lowtech mass units vs hightech + meatshields, and the advantage of lowtech should be quicker reinforcements, but it doesn't work because of warpgates (not balance whine). Aside from mobility, I don't see the point of staying on MMGV at super late game unless you can abuse that mobility.
Tanks are just BAD and i mean really really horrid against Zealots and Archons. Tanks deal more damage to own units then to Zealots and Archons .
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So many ghosts that the AI for the chargelots is going crazy.
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On February 03 2012 13:00 snafoo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 13:00 dragonborn wrote:
thats how you deal with protoss late game.
take notes terran players. he's behind....
he's ahead.
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United States97276 Posts
that was a really nice engage by happy. so many ghosts O_o
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On February 03 2012 12:50 OtoshimonoU wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 12:49 NPF wrote:On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote:
It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources. It's all about building armor. With that planetaries would have held. Well not really. But it would have helped a ton. I'm sorry. What?
A subtle Gretorp joke. That and building armor couldn't have hindered considering all the money he had. 2 armor and zealots do 2 strikes a piece.
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Is mass ghost seriously the answer?
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that... that is seriously 22 ghosts
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There's your weak lategame tvp, folks.
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EPT
