When: Friday, Feb 03 1:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) (we will also have a European re-broadcast as usual at Friday, Feb 03 5:30pm GMT (GMT+00:00))
Format
This double-elimination tournament features 16 teams from around the world and is an All-Kill team format. This match is being played for Winners Round 1. The first team to defeat everyone on the opposing team's roster (5 wins, or a best of 9), will move on in the Winners Bracket, while the loser will drop down into the Losers Bracket. Keep in mind that this has a $20,000 prize pool, and only six teams will make it to the money!
Empire Beastyqt Kas Happy Aristeo hoBot viOLet Welmu
The First Game for this match of IPL Team Arena Challenge 2 is on Friday, Feb 03 1:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) (we will also have a European re-broadcast as usual at Friday, Feb 03 5:30pm GMT (GMT+00:00))
If Prime doesn't take Empire seriously empire will rip them a new one. If they do it should be close. IPL would make the most anticipated match (mine anyway) the last of the round
Last chance for a foreign team to beat a Korean team in this tournament? Empire has as good a chance as any other foreign team but ultimately they only have 2 Korean-caliber members in Kas and violet. Prime 5-2.
On February 02 2012 23:55 red4ce wrote: Last chance for a foreign team to beat a Korean team in this tournament? Empire has as good a chance as any other foreign team but ultimately they only have 2 Korean-caliber members in Kas and violet. Prime 5-2.
Not seen Happy's play i supose, don't underestimate Empire, peeple keep doing that, it's going to be a close series, i'd say Prime 5 vs Empire 4, simply because of there bigger lineup.
Empire are good, but Prime are the kings of the team leagues, they wont lose this, Nobody on the empire team can beat Creator if he is playing his best, and Marineking and Byun also have to potential to all kill, sadly. I'm rooting for Prime, but i hope it is close.
On February 03 2012 01:48 Poopi wrote: Since it's cross-server Empire may have a chance. I just hope that Prime will win, but cross-server results are always disappointing
It`s played on NA. Eastern Europe may have even worse latency than Korea sometimes.
On February 03 2012 01:48 Poopi wrote: Since it's cross-server Empire may have a chance. I just hope that Prime will win, but cross-server results are always disappointing
It`s played on NA. Eastern Europe may have even worse latency than Korea sometimes.
When I said it (somewhere) people thought im saying that EU > NA is worse than KR > NA, I didnt mean that, but that east EU > NA got worse lag than KR > NA and this was tested when Kas and me were at WCG.
But saying Empire might have a chance because of that is funny since we lag more
On February 03 2012 01:48 Poopi wrote: Since it's cross-server Empire may have a chance. I just hope that Prime will win, but cross-server results are always disappointing
It`s played on NA. Eastern Europe may have even worse latency than Korea sometimes.
When I said it (somewhere) people thought im saying that EU > NA is worse than KR > NA, I didnt mean that, but that east EU > NA got worse lag than KR > NA and this was tested when Kas and me were at WCG.
But saying Empire might have a chance because of that is funny since we lag more
I didn't say it like whoever lags the most will Be the most likely team to win, rather since there is lag for both the outcome can be kinda random. And depending of the teamhouse the lag isn't the same for koreans, so it's hard to figure how much somebody from KR lag.
Interesting matchup here. The poll is really close. I give the edge to Prime because, well, it's a proven Korean team that made it to the GSTL finals last season. That's impressive. Empire definitely has a chance, though, because in terms of player depth, they have a pretty damn good roster.
Kas is the wildcard. He's beaten MarineKing in the past (WCG) and also recently beat Zenio (IEM.) Definitely capable of helping them win, if they do manage to win.
Tonight we'll be doing something slightly different for the broadcast! CatsPajamasand Doa will be going on an hour early (4 p.m. PST / 7 p.m. EST) to do a general discussion about some SC2 current events, as well as to unveil a new feature/application of IGN Pro League! Go to http://www.ign.com/ipl in about 90 minutes to see what it's all about!
On February 03 2012 01:48 Poopi wrote: Since it's cross-server Empire may have a chance. I just hope that Prime will win, but cross-server results are always disappointing
It`s played on NA. Eastern Europe may have even worse latency than Korea sometimes.
When I said it (somewhere) people thought im saying that EU > NA is worse than KR > NA, I didnt mean that, but that east EU > NA got worse lag than KR > NA and this was tested when Kas and me were at WCG.
But saying Empire might have a chance because of that is funny since we lag more
I didn't say it like whoever lags the most will Be the most likely team to win, rather since there is lag for both the outcome can be kinda random. And depending of the teamhouse the lag isn't the same for koreans, so it's hard to figure how much somebody from KR lag.
Yea, it depends on internet connection and day to day too. And more importantly IMO, play style because some players tend to do builds that are so damn more micro-intensive sometimes.
On February 02 2012 23:31 Talin wrote: There's somebody called GhostKingPrime?
I want to watch him play. xD
It is Byun.
Also -- WTF Empire was actually leading the poll? People are really starting to get delusional.
Have you seen Kas, Beasty or viOLet play? Plus, I'm assuming that these games were played on NA or EU, which means that the connection to KR will favor Empire. Prime is certainly favored, but you're not delusional if you think that Empire has a chance. viOLet is more than capable of taking out a few Prime guys as is Kas. Beasty, Welmu, and Happy all have a game in them if the build orders/spawns go their way. I'm hoping for a 5-4 victory for Empire with Kas winning the ace match.
On February 03 2012 07:29 IGNProLeague wrote: Tonight we'll be doing something slightly different for the broadcast! CatsPajamas, Doa, and our Operations Manager Frank Fields will be going on an hour early (4 p.m. PST / 7 p.m. EST) to do a general discussion about some SC2 current events, as well as to unveil a new feature/application of IGN Pro League! Go to http://www.ign.com/ipl in about 90 minutes to see what it's all about!
On February 02 2012 23:31 Talin wrote: There's somebody called GhostKingPrime?
I want to watch him play. xD
It is Byun.
Also -- WTF Empire was actually leading the poll? People are really starting to get delusional.
Have you seen Kas, Beasty or viOLet play? Plus, I'm assuming that these games were played on NA or EU, which means that the connection to KR will favor Empire. Prime is certainly favored, but you're not delusional if you think that Empire has a chance. viOLet is more than capable of taking out a few Prime guys as is Kas. Beasty, Welmu, and Happy all have a game in them if the build orders/spawns go their way. I'm hoping for a 5-4 victory for Empire with Kas winning the ace match.
Empire has a chance to win, but looking at the past results, the Korean teams have simply overwhelmed the foreign teams through their depth (Last night was essentially Liquid vs Col, not col-MVP, and we saw how that went when col-MVP did not deploy the Koreans, ouch).
Empire lacks the depth to finish the entire Bo9. They have strong players, but do they have 5 strong players that can consistently take games off of the Koreans? I am not so sure. MKP is a strong player, but CreatorPrime and BBoongBBoongPrime are also very strong in the team leagues, and just look at Prime's listed roster. It's huge and full of talent and snipers.
I honestly don't expect MKP to do all that well, or even end up playing.
However, I have to give Prime the edge because of Creator and c0re, since Empire doesn't have any depth in protoss and thus lacks strong protoss practice partners. I wouldn't be surprised if either Creator or c0re win 2+ games, especially since both have strong T, and to a less extent Z, practice partners. Also, it doesn't hurt that protoss is performing strong again terran since the emp nerf.
Anyways, I think Prime will take it 5-3 (with 4 of the wins from protoss players).
On February 02 2012 23:31 Talin wrote: There's somebody called GhostKingPrime?
I want to watch him play. xD
It is Byun.
Also -- WTF Empire was actually leading the poll? People are really starting to get delusional.
Have you seen Kas, Beasty or viOLet play? Plus, I'm assuming that these games were played on NA or EU, which means that the connection to KR will favor Empire. Prime is certainly favored, but you're not delusional if you think that Empire has a chance. viOLet is more than capable of taking out a few Prime guys as is Kas. Beasty, Welmu, and Happy all have a game in them if the build orders/spawns go their way. I'm hoping for a 5-4 victory for Empire with Kas winning the ace match.
Empire has a chance to win, but looking at the past results, the Korean teams have simply overwhelmed the foreign teams through their depth (Last night was essentially Liquid vs Col, not col-MVP, and we saw how that went when col-MVP did not deploy the Koreans, ouch).
Empire lacks the depth to finish the entire Bo9. They have strong players, but do they have 5 strong players that can consistently take games off of the Koreans? I am not so sure. MKP is a strong player, but CreatorPrime and BBoongBBoongPrime are also very strong in the team leagues, and just look at Prime's listed roster. It's huge and full of talent and snipers.
Well if Prime sends out some of their weak players (Korean teams have a precadence for doing this) then Empire has a chance. I do feel like Empire and Prime are pretty similiar in their respective scenes. They are both teams that are often overlooked but manage to be a force to be reckoned with. But yeah, Prime is still really favored.
sometimes i ask myself if the caster ever played this game.
-say ghost push shoudl wait 3 min. -ask why protoss atack when hes total commited to allin allready -question a upgrade not done when you atack oO -wonder that a 3 comes late after a ghost push that killed many worker ... and so on and so on
Its one point to do mistake in casting and dont understand the builds and whats going on, but question obvious good moves from pros and act like you know better is really strange.
Seeing strategies like this one Beasty is using makes me happy, but I can only think that the reason why it looks like he's winning is because Classic messed up with the pathing and then didn't feedback the Thors. With Feedback and more units that battle could have easily gone the complete opposite way.
On February 03 2012 10:54 The Final Boss wrote: Seeing strategies like this one Beasty is using makes me happy, but I can only think that the reason why it looks like he's winning is because Classic messed up with the pathing and then didn't feedback the Thors. With Feedback and more units that battle could have easily gone the complete opposite way.
On February 03 2012 10:54 The Final Boss wrote: Seeing strategies like this one Beasty is using makes me happy, but I can only think that the reason why it looks like he's winning is because Classic messed up with the pathing and then didn't feedback the Thors. With Feedback and more units that battle could have easily gone the complete opposite way.
On February 03 2012 10:52 chanseyy wrote: Mech vs Protoss, Artosis would be proud.
Too many marines to be mech, but pretty close
Helions and Tanks aren't all that useful in later stages of TvP so real Mech is not possible. Not sure if HoTs will change anything about that since tanks will probably still suck against toss .
The top 4 seem pretty good, but I would replace #5 Stephano with aLive, as Alive has made back to back Ro8, just won a Korean weekly, while Stephano has had strong showings in online cups, he bowed out in HSC4 very early.
On February 03 2012 11:01 Hall0wed wrote: I'm sorry but this Power Ranking thing sound ridiculous.
Go ahead and have a power ranking of your own, but don't bring it up in casts. All it can do is confuse the unknowing and incite stupid stuff. -_-
That being said, lol @ any foreigner being in the Top 30-50 in the power ranking. >_>
The power ranking is incredibly foreigner biased, but I think that it is great that IPL is taking the initiative and creating one of their own. It's definitely not as legit right now, as I disagree with several entries, but it's a good start.
On February 03 2012 10:57 00Visor wrote: What is this powerranking? There is at most one foreigner in the Top25 (Stephano).
i kind of agree, 4-5 others are close, but no1 else would prolly deserve to be on that list. and even stephano is in the 20s imo^^ but that would take away a lot of excitement of it also.
TOP 25 no order MMA DRG Leenock Oz MVP Puzzle Alive Jjakji Nestea MKP Gumiho SuperNova Ganzi MC Happy Genius Taeja Polt Genius Lucky CoCa ForGG Sage Ryung Parting Curious
Every single one of these players are better then every foreigner. IPL's list is ridiculous i can't believe ign put people like idra stephano and thorzain over their korean counterparts.
His team knocked out my team during the first round of a 4v4 TL Open tournament, then proceeded to win the entire thing. It was truly an honor for me, a lowly plat Terran, to have played him for a few minutes in that tourney haha.
On February 03 2012 11:02 Rulker wrote: TOP 25 no order MMA DRG Leenock Oz MVP Puzzle Alive Jjakji Nestea MKP Gumiho SuperNova Ganzi MC Happy Genius Taeja Polt Genius Lucky CoCa ForGG Sage Ryung Parting Curious
Every single one of these players are better then every foreigner. IPL's list is ridiculous i can't believe ign put people like idra stephano and thorzain over their korean counterparts.
On February 03 2012 11:02 Rulker wrote: TOP 25 no order MMA DRG Leenock Oz MVP Puzzle Alive Jjakji Nestea MKP Gumiho SuperNova Ganzi MC Happy Genius Taeja Polt Genius Lucky CoCa ForGG Sage Ryung Parting Curious
Every single one of these players are better then every foreigner. IPL's list is ridiculous i can't believe ign put people like idra stephano and thorzain over their korean counterparts.
On February 03 2012 11:02 Rulker wrote: TOP 25 no order MMA DRG Leenock Oz MVP Puzzle Alive Jjakji Nestea MKP Gumiho SuperNova Ganzi MC Happy Genius Taeja Polt Genius Lucky CoCa ForGG Sage Ryung Parting Curious
Every single one of these players are better then every foreigner. IPL's list is ridiculous i can't believe ign put people like idra stephano and thorzain over their korean counterparts.
actually you forgot beastyqt who should be at number 1 :D
On February 03 2012 11:02 Rulker wrote: TOP 25 no order MMA DRG Leenock Oz MVP Puzzle Alive Jjakji Nestea MKP Gumiho SuperNova Ganzi MC Happy Genius Taeja Polt Genius Lucky CoCa ForGG Sage Ryung Parting Curious
Every single one of these players are better then every foreigner. IPL's list is ridiculous i can't believe ign put people like idra stephano and thorzain over their korean counterparts.
Lol Ryung, ForGG, Sage. Overhype much? ForGG has no proof to say he is better than foreigners, he got 2-0'd by HuK in a Korean weekly a few eweeks ago even. Ryung is horrible, and Sage has no results to speak of. Similarly, IdrA is the most overrated player of all time, but I don't think it is a stretch to say that Stephano/Thorzain/Naniwa/HuK can't compete in that list.
What the fuck is wrong with people making these lists who actually have no idea of results....
On February 03 2012 11:02 Rulker wrote: TOP 25 no order MMA DRG Leenock Oz MVP Puzzle Alive Jjakji Nestea MKP Gumiho SuperNova Ganzi MC Happy Genius Taeja Polt Genius Lucky CoCa ForGG Sage Ryung Parting Curious
Every single one of these players are better then every foreigner. IPL's list is ridiculous i can't believe ign put people like idra stephano and thorzain over their korean counterparts.
On February 03 2012 11:02 Rulker wrote: TOP 25 no order MMA DRG Leenock Oz MVP Puzzle Alive Jjakji Nestea MKP Gumiho SuperNova Ganzi MC Happy Genius Taeja Polt Genius Lucky CoCa ForGG Sage Ryung Parting Curious
Every single one of these players are better then every foreigner. IPL's list is ridiculous i can't believe ign put people like idra stephano and thorzain over their korean counterparts.
Wow, at this point I think Beastyqt might have done irreversible damage to Prime. Being down 0-3 with Beastyqt, Kas and vioLet still able to play is a bad situation even for Prime.
On February 03 2012 11:16 TheNessman wrote: UPDATE THE OP
Just go to Liquipedia.
Fuck that
fuck everything here! This is ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!! who doesn't update the OP? Why is there an OP if you don't update it?what the fuck??? and I want to point out I wrote this whole thing in all caps the first time but decided against it!
On February 03 2012 11:16 TheNessman wrote: UPDATE THE OP
Just go to Liquipedia.
Fuck that
fuck everything here! This is ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!! who doesn't update the OP? Why is there an OP if you don't update it?what the fuck??? and I want to point out I wrote this whole thing in all caps the first time but decided against it!
dude take a chill pill. it's not that big of a deal
On February 03 2012 11:16 TheNessman wrote: UPDATE THE OP
Just go to Liquipedia.
Fuck that
fuck everything here! This is ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!! who doesn't update the OP? Why is there an OP if you don't update it?what the fuck??? and I want to point out I wrote this whole thing in all caps the first time but decided against it!
I can't do anything about the OP, but I can give you a smile to cheer you up:
On February 03 2012 11:16 TheNessman wrote: UPDATE THE OP
Just go to Liquipedia.
Yea you can go there, but really considering how far in the games are to not have even updated it the first game? Thats kind of sad....
OP is probably AFK or busy I guess. Just suggesting an alternative.
Yea I understand that Just saying(Especially seeing as the thread was made by IPL) that they should be a bit more active about updating the thread or let someone else make them? Anyway... Wow Beasty! but unfortunately Creator about to all kill :D
On February 03 2012 11:16 TheNessman wrote: UPDATE THE OP
Just go to Liquipedia.
Fuck that
fuck everything here! This is ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!! who doesn't update the OP? Why is there an OP if you don't update it?what the fuck??? and I want to point out I wrote this whole thing in all caps the first time but decided against it!
I can't do anything about the OP, but I can give you a smile to cheer you up:
On February 03 2012 11:23 DYEAlabaster wrote: But.... where is Byun.... I really am somewhat surprised by the first three choices of Prime
I checked Liquipedia becuase the three players they just sent out made it seem like Prime wasn't taking this seriously, but I found out they ussualy field these players in Team Leagues. Creator and MKP ussually come in to clean things up.
On February 03 2012 11:16 TheNessman wrote: UPDATE THE OP
Just go to Liquipedia.
Fuck that
fuck everything here! This is ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!! who doesn't update the OP? Why is there an OP if you don't update it?what the fuck??? and I want to point out I wrote this whole thing in all caps the first time but decided against it!
seriously, its kinda annoying with an un-updated OP when the point of an LR is to LIVE report. x_x.
also im completely wrong about beastyqt, im a fan now
On February 03 2012 11:16 TheNessman wrote: UPDATE THE OP
Just go to Liquipedia.
Fuck that
fuck everything here! This is ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!! who doesn't update the OP? Why is there an OP if you don't update it?what the fuck??? and I want to point out I wrote this whole thing in all caps the first time but decided against it!
seriously, its kinda annoying with an un-updated OP when the point of an LR is to LIVE report. x_x.
also im completely wrong about beastyqt, im a fan now
On February 03 2012 11:27 Shellshock1122 wrote: how good is beasty vP?
took out the first two P's of Prime
Although it's his worst MU, or at least the matchup he hates lol, great job though, very well done. Creator just too good ^^, I'd imagine they'd send aristeo or violet out next
On February 03 2012 11:36 aintz wrote: like mma said in his interview: you gotta harass the protoss and not let him max and roll you over with his 200/200 army.
Well, at the least you cannot let CreatorPrime play the CreatorPrime build with no worry. He's been rolling terrans in the same manner for a couple months now. Rush 3/3, get only 3 colossus with a lot of chargelots/stalkers a few immortals and archons then attack.
On February 03 2012 11:36 aintz wrote: like mma said in his interview: you gotta harass the protoss and not let him max and roll you over with his 200/200 army.
Well, at the least you cannot let CreatorPrime play the CreatorPrime build with no worry. He's been rolling terrans in the same manner for a couple months now. Rush 3/3, get only 3 colossus with a lot of chargelots/stalkers a few immortals and archons then attack.
It's really not as easy as it sounds because Creator really was prepared for almost everything and if Beasty attacked at any point he would've been defeated. It's really due to his amazing macro ability that he can do all that while maintaining an army that would've protected him at all times.
EDIT: Also his scouting and decision-making to balance army and economy based on Beasty's movements.
Creator is a true master of the double upgrade style.
Beastyqt tried to react by going double engie-bay himself, but Creator scouted it and immediately expanded at 9min mark. He had double forge, a third, colossus tech and mantained constant probe production at that point of the game... normally that would be incredibly greedy, but this time it was a calculated risk based on scouting. His first colossus popped right as beastyqt tried to harrass the natural, which allowed him to go down the ramp and chase the T army.
Perfectly timed game all the way, perfect decision making.
On February 03 2012 11:36 aintz wrote: like mma said in his interview: you gotta harass the protoss and not let him max and roll you over with his 200/200 army.
On some Maps easier said then done though. On Maps with nearby easy to defend third bases its can be hard if the Toss turtles well enough.
Why are there so many good things being streamed at the same time.... IPLTAC2, NASTL, and MLG EU qualifiers...literally every one of the top NA-based SC2 organizations is going at the same time! XD
Casting from replays... the only way you can get Empire competing in two team league tournaments at the same time, one of which is being co-casted by Grubby, who is also playing in the MLG EU Qualifiers at the same time...
On February 03 2012 11:49 mvtaylor wrote: Casting from replays... the only way you can get Empire competing in two team league tournaments at the same time, one of which is being co-casted by Grubby, who is also playing in the MLG EU Qualifiers at the same time...
Man Creator is a beast. The way he split his army to deal with the mutas at his base was Godly. I'm so bad against muta haha, I wish I could pull that off.
On February 03 2012 11:57 Crownlol wrote: To everyone who mentioned Creator-
I think you're right. Once he learns to harass, this kid is going to be golden.
And I dunno if I'd ever want to watch GhostKingPrime haaha.
Protoss doesn't necessarily have to harass lol.
They may not *have* to, but look at MC, probably the best 'toss in the world- he's incredibly aggressive.
I'm worried about his deathball style against a high level Korean Terran with good EMP's. Also I'm not too sure about forge-expand every game against Zerg. Roach pressure is still really strong, not sure why we don't see more roach busts against FFE or nexus-first.
On February 03 2012 11:57 Crownlol wrote: To everyone who mentioned Creator-
I think you're right. Once he learns to harass, this kid is going to be golden.
And I dunno if I'd ever want to watch GhostKingPrime haaha.
Protoss doesn't necessarily have to harass lol.
They may not *have* to, but look at MC, probably the best 'toss in the world- he's incredibly aggressive.
I'm worried about his deathball style against a high level Korean Terran with good EMP's. Also I'm not too sure about forge-expand every game against Zerg. Roach pressure is still really strong, not sure why we don't see more roach busts against FFE or nexus-first.
I'd rather watch Creator turtle up to deathball than MC do a 2 base all in.
On February 03 2012 11:57 Crownlol wrote: To everyone who mentioned Creator-
I think you're right. Once he learns to harass, this kid is going to be golden.
And I dunno if I'd ever want to watch GhostKingPrime haaha.
Protoss doesn't necessarily have to harass lol.
They may not *have* to, but look at MC, probably the best 'toss in the world- he's incredibly aggressive.
I'm worried about his deathball style against a high level Korean Terran with good EMP's. Also I'm not too sure about forge-expand every game against Zerg. Roach pressure is still really strong, not sure why we don't see more roach busts against FFE or nexus-first.
I'd rather watch Creator turtle up to deathball than MC do a 2 base all in.
Interesting. Why?
Personally, I prefer watching aggressive styles. Reactor hellion, 4gate vs non-P, hatch-cancel roaches. I suppose the ideal game would have strong early pressure, a nail-biting defense, then macro play with drops/counterattacks all over the map. Turtle/deathball is boring man.
On February 03 2012 11:57 Crownlol wrote: To everyone who mentioned Creator-
I think you're right. Once he learns to harass, this kid is going to be golden.
And I dunno if I'd ever want to watch GhostKingPrime haaha.
Protoss doesn't necessarily have to harass lol.
They may not *have* to, but look at MC, probably the best 'toss in the world- he's incredibly aggressive.
I'm worried about his deathball style against a high level Korean Terran with good EMP's. Also I'm not too sure about forge-expand every game against Zerg. Roach pressure is still really strong, not sure why we don't see more roach busts against FFE or nexus-first.
You can watch his games from KSL and from the last GSTL against TSL in particular.
However, I do want to point out that it takes a lot of impressive macro to be able to macro evenly against a Zerg without some harass. Actually, that's absolutely insane... I do think he should throw in some harass builds, but right now Creator is showing an alternative to the matchups that isn't really flashy or gimmicky but something solid.
On February 03 2012 11:57 Crownlol wrote: To everyone who mentioned Creator-
I think you're right. Once he learns to harass, this kid is going to be golden.
And I dunno if I'd ever want to watch GhostKingPrime haaha.
Protoss doesn't necessarily have to harass lol.
They may not *have* to, but look at MC, probably the best 'toss in the world- he's incredibly aggressive.
I'm worried about his deathball style against a high level Korean Terran with good EMP's. Also I'm not too sure about forge-expand every game against Zerg. Roach pressure is still really strong, not sure why we don't see more roach busts against FFE or nexus-first.
I'd rather watch Creator turtle up to deathball than MC do a 2 base all in.
Interesting. Why?
theres only so much all ins i can stand to watch lol
On February 03 2012 11:57 Crownlol wrote: To everyone who mentioned Creator-
I think you're right. Once he learns to harass, this kid is going to be golden.
And I dunno if I'd ever want to watch GhostKingPrime haaha.
Protoss doesn't necessarily have to harass lol.
They may not *have* to, but look at MC, probably the best 'toss in the world- he's incredibly aggressive.
I'm worried about his deathball style against a high level Korean Terran with good EMP's. Also I'm not too sure about forge-expand every game against Zerg. Roach pressure is still really strong, not sure why we don't see more roach busts against FFE or nexus-first.
You can watch his games from KSL and from the last GSTL against TSL in particular.
However, I do want to point out that it takes a lot of impressive macro to be able to macro evenly against a Zerg without some harass. Actually, that's absolutely insane... I do think he should throw in some harass builds, but right now Creator is showing an alternative to the matchups that isn't really flashy or gimmicky but something solid.
Thanks, I'll be sure to check it out. His macro is impressive there's no doubt about that. I'm just worried that not harassing someone like MMA, and letting him drop willy-nilly across the map could be disastrous.
On February 03 2012 11:57 Crownlol wrote: To everyone who mentioned Creator-
I think you're right. Once he learns to harass, this kid is going to be golden.
And I dunno if I'd ever want to watch GhostKingPrime haaha.
Protoss doesn't necessarily have to harass lol.
They may not *have* to, but look at MC, probably the best 'toss in the world- he's incredibly aggressive.
I'm worried about his deathball style against a high level Korean Terran with good EMP's. Also I'm not too sure about forge-expand every game against Zerg. Roach pressure is still really strong, not sure why we don't see more roach busts against FFE or nexus-first.
I'd rather watch Creator turtle up to deathball than MC do a 2 base all in.
Interesting. Why?
theres only so much all ins i can stand to watch lol
We need to create a Creator-MC hybrid. He shall be the ultimate protoss player.
On February 03 2012 11:57 Crownlol wrote: To everyone who mentioned Creator-
I think you're right. Once he learns to harass, this kid is going to be golden.
And I dunno if I'd ever want to watch GhostKingPrime haaha.
Protoss doesn't necessarily have to harass lol.
They may not *have* to, but look at MC, probably the best 'toss in the world- he's incredibly aggressive.
I'm worried about his deathball style against a high level Korean Terran with good EMP's. Also I'm not too sure about forge-expand every game against Zerg. Roach pressure is still really strong, not sure why we don't see more roach busts against FFE or nexus-first.
I'd rather watch Creator turtle up to deathball than MC do a 2 base all in.
Interesting. Why?
theres only so much all ins i can stand to watch lol
On February 03 2012 11:57 Crownlol wrote: To everyone who mentioned Creator-
I think you're right. Once he learns to harass, this kid is going to be golden.
And I dunno if I'd ever want to watch GhostKingPrime haaha.
Protoss doesn't necessarily have to harass lol.
They may not *have* to, but look at MC, probably the best 'toss in the world- he's incredibly aggressive.
I'm worried about his deathball style against a high level Korean Terran with good EMP's. Also I'm not too sure about forge-expand every game against Zerg. Roach pressure is still really strong, not sure why we don't see more roach busts against FFE or nexus-first.
I'd rather watch Creator turtle up to deathball than MC do a 2 base all in.
Interesting. Why?
theres only so much all ins i can stand to watch lol
hahahahahahhhaahahhahah sc2
MC's style doesn't involve harassment, it involves him using his superb unit control in 1 or 2 base all-ins, over and over and over again. That's what he's good at, that's what he does.
Here's something to consider: How will ChargeLisks change the nature of lategame PvZ? Can you imagine Ultras just borrowing under forcefields and popping up under Colossi? Actually it sounds kind of awesome.
Creator is the so boring almost as bad es Nightend at HSC4 just waiting and building stuff while not attacking . Yes he's good but damn you can just skip the first 10-15 minutes in his games.
Jesus christ, it's like the Prime-time of SC2 right now (no pun intended). IPL, NASTL, MLG, Day9, Huk, Destiny all streaming simultaneously. Makes me wonder if the market is oversaturated right now.
On February 03 2012 12:14 Bagration wrote: Jesus christ, it's like the Prime-time of SC2 right now (no pun intended). IPL, NASTL, MLG, Day9, Huk, Destiny all streaming simultaneously. Makes me wonder if the market is oversaturated right now.
There really needs to be an industry-wide streaming media service.
Imagine watching all of these on one player in multiple windows... /vomitfromawesome
I'm currently watching the IPL and MLG each on 54" LED TV's with a couple buddies, (MLG muted), but one player would be nice. Maybe some kind of ESPN ticker at the bottom. Actually that'd be awesome, why am I not making this right now.
*EDIT* Texting some of the developers at my software company to see how fast I could get eESPN running
2 move command errors in the big battles. The first one of creator donated 2 colossus to his zerg opponent, who gave back the present by moving his 4 broodlords right over creators blink stalker in the game deciding battle. Those things will happen I think if both parties play with some kind of lag due cross server play, so we shouldn't be too harsch on the players. I think Creator would've won the battle anyway, but it just would've been a bit closer though. 4 Broodlords are just not that impactful against such an amount of blink stalker.
On February 03 2012 12:14 Bagration wrote: Jesus christ, it's like the Prime-time of SC2 right now (no pun intended). IPL, NASTL, MLG, Day9, Huk, Destiny all streaming simultaneously. Makes me wonder if the market is oversaturated right now.
There really needs to be an industry-wide streaming media service.
Imagine watching all of these on one player in multiple windows... /vomitfromawesome
I'm currently watching the IPL and MLG each on 54" LED TV's with a couple buddies, (MLG muted), but one player would be nice. Maybe some kind of ESPN ticker at the bottom. Actually that'd be awesome, why am I not making this right now.
On February 03 2012 12:14 Bagration wrote: Jesus christ, it's like the Prime-time of SC2 right now (no pun intended). IPL, NASTL, MLG, Day9, Huk, Destiny all streaming simultaneously. Makes me wonder if the market is oversaturated right now.
There really needs to be an industry-wide streaming media service.
Imagine watching all of these on one player in multiple windows... /vomitfromawesome
I'm currently watching the IPL and MLG each on 54" LED TV's with a couple buddies, (MLG muted), but one player would be nice. Maybe some kind of ESPN ticker at the bottom. Actually that'd be awesome, why am I not making this right now.
You and me should go into business together. Provide the ultimate stream to the consumer. And then we can take over the world!
On February 03 2012 12:14 Bagration wrote: Jesus christ, it's like the Prime-time of SC2 right now (no pun intended). IPL, NASTL, MLG, Day9, Huk, Destiny all streaming simultaneously. Makes me wonder if the market is oversaturated right now.
There really needs to be an industry-wide streaming media service.
Imagine watching all of these on one player in multiple windows... /vomitfromawesome
I'm currently watching the IPL and MLG each on 54" LED TV's with a couple buddies, (MLG muted), but one player would be nice. Maybe some kind of ESPN ticker at the bottom. Actually that'd be awesome, why am I not making this right now.
*EDIT* Texting some of the developers at my software company to see how fast I could get eESPN running
Do it, but make sure its simple to use. Reminds me of teevox but teevox got so damn cluttered that it became annoying to watch
Creator is the so boring almost as bad es Nightend at HSC4 just waiting and building stuff while not attacking . Yes he's good but damn you can just skip the first 10-15 minutes in his games.
Actually, that's kind of the new Korean meta ... You either go 2 base all-in (be in blink stalker vs Z or immortal vs T) or you take 3 and turtle and defend drops until you have upgrade + tech + deathball and move out... That is the play style of the Ps having success in GSL now with Puzzle, Parting, Genius... MC is the only really aggressive Toss and he does more 2 base timings which just keeps going until someone is dead
On February 03 2012 12:14 Bagration wrote: Jesus christ, it's like the Prime-time of SC2 right now (no pun intended). IPL, NASTL, MLG, Day9, Huk, Destiny all streaming simultaneously. Makes me wonder if the market is oversaturated right now.
There really needs to be an industry-wide streaming media service.
Imagine watching all of these on one player in multiple windows... /vomitfromawesome
I'm currently watching the IPL and MLG each on 54" LED TV's with a couple buddies, (MLG muted), but one player would be nice. Maybe some kind of ESPN ticker at the bottom. Actually that'd be awesome, why am I not making this right now.
You and me should go into business together. Provide the ultimate stream to the consumer. And then we can take over the world!
I'm down. We can involve Nessman, I like his energy. I'm actually currently working on a heuristic media engine similar to Pandora (but for other media) it'd be really neat to apply it to eSports. Ya know, it learns what you like and suggests games. Would tag players, or "sick micro", "long macro game", "mothership", "battlecruisers".... hmm could be neat. And it would have access to all streams in one player, with a windows-aero cascade style (dope animation amirite?). And a ticker. I need to make this happen.
Wow, that was quite nice micro, but I still disagree with Kas rarely getting a bunker early TvP, especially on a map as easily defended as this with a single bunker >.>
and EPIC scout by creator, very clutch, albeit somewhat lucky timing
Creator is the so boring almost as bad es Nightend at HSC4 just waiting and building stuff while not attacking . Yes he's good but damn you can just skip the first 10-15 minutes in his games.
Actually, that's kind of the new Korean meta ... You either go 2 base all-in (be in blink stalker vs Z or immortal vs T) or you take 3 and turtle and defend drops until you have upgrade + tech + deathball and move out... That is the play style of the Ps having success in GSL now with Puzzle, Parting, Genius... MC is the only really aggressive Toss and he does more 2 base timings which just keeps going until someone is dead
Hmm yeah your right probably the reason i HATE watching Korean Protoss right now . I kinda hope this somehow gets figured out and then dies out because its just stupid and boring to watch.
Ok now we're getting into the stupid TvP stalemate where the player that attacks is going to lose. Kas has more bases so now do the smart thing . Don't attack directly into Creator.
I feel like Kas fell into the trap that a lot of good Terran players fall into. He just kept trying to trade armies with late game Protoss and eventually he just got destroyed by warp in reinforcements.
On February 03 2012 12:41 Mordiford wrote: I feel like Kas fell into the trap that a lot of good Terran players fall into. He just kept trying to trade armies with late game Protoss and eventually he just got destroyed by warp in reinforcements.
Yes once Kas got more bases then Creator the only thing he should've done is sit back and defend. You can't break the Toss on 3-4 Bases even if you beat his army you have to dry him out and then kill his army.
On February 03 2012 12:41 Mordiford wrote: I feel like Kas fell into the trap that a lot of good Terran players fall into. He just kept trying to trade armies with late game Protoss and eventually he just got destroyed by warp in reinforcements.
Very severe 1 control group syndrome for kas. His vikings randomly retreated vs the colossus and they weren't even targeting the same colossus some times.
On February 03 2012 12:41 Mordiford wrote: I feel like Kas fell into the trap that a lot of good Terran players fall into. He just kept trying to trade armies with late game Protoss and eventually he just got destroyed by warp in reinforcements.
Yes once Kas got more bases then Creator the only thing he should've done is sit back and defend. You can't break the Toss even if you beat his army you have to dry him out.
And thats why Creator attacked into 2 planetarys and destroyed him before that could happen.
Late-game Protoss is incredible. I think CreatorPrime's play is so crazy powerful, it's a bit obscene. Watching that game made me wonder how Protoss had the troubles they did over past summer.
On February 02 2012 23:14 StarVe wrote: Prime should win in the end, I don't know which player could take out Creator, but I think Empire will take some games.
On February 03 2012 12:43 AnarionSC2 wrote: There is NOTHING terran can do against mass zealots in late game...NOTHING. 200/200 T against 200/200 P with NO shields whatsoever, P wins...
On February 03 2012 12:41 Mordiford wrote: I feel like Kas fell into the trap that a lot of good Terran players fall into. He just kept trying to trade armies with late game Protoss and eventually he just got destroyed by warp in reinforcements.
Yes once Kas got more bases then Creator the only thing he should've done is sit back and defend. You can't break the Toss even if you beat his army you have to dry him out.
And thats why Creator attacked into 2 planetarys and destroyed him before that could happen.
But only after Kas wasted 1 big army and his bank on a stupid attack. He should've never moved out in the first place.
On February 03 2012 12:41 Mordiford wrote: I feel like Kas fell into the trap that a lot of good Terran players fall into. He just kept trying to trade armies with late game Protoss and eventually he just got destroyed by warp in reinforcements.
Kas did two amazing drops and was up about two bases but once it got to lategame he kept just bashign armies head first at P... unless you do that perfectly you'll never wear them down...
On February 03 2012 12:43 AnarionSC2 wrote: There is NOTHING terran can do against mass zealots in late game...NOTHING. 200/200 T against 200/200 P with NO shields whatsoever, P wins...
It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources.
Lmao at people balance whining when like 12 3/3/3 archons were dealing damage way before any EMPs went down in that engagement(and still very few did) and there were more colossi than vikings. Pretty sure Creator's army cost a LOT more, Kas had some planetaries down at bases not even mining, he was floating thousands of gas, etc. Having planetaries at bases doesn't make that an actual mining base.
Late-game Protoss is incredible. I think CreatorPrime's play is so crazy powerful, it's a bit obscene. Watching that game made me wonder how Protoss had the troubles they did over past summer.
Well, Protoss relied on a lot more 2 base timings back then... Also, emp got nerfed as well. Terrans used to be able to blanket the entire toss army with just 2-3 emps, now, it takes much more and ghosts have to get in a much more forward position
On February 03 2012 12:41 Mordiford wrote: I feel like Kas fell into the trap that a lot of good Terran players fall into. He just kept trying to trade armies with late game Protoss and eventually he just got destroyed by warp in reinforcements.
Yes once Kas got more bases then Creator the only thing he should've done is sit back and defend. You can't break the Toss even if you beat his army you have to dry him out.
And thats why Creator attacked into 2 planetarys and destroyed him before that could happen.
But only after Kas wasted 1 big army and his bank on a stupid attack. He should've never moved out in the first place.
So basically you let the toss get crazy amount of bases or attack and die. Rock and a Hard place.
On February 03 2012 12:41 Mordiford wrote: I feel like Kas fell into the trap that a lot of good Terran players fall into. He just kept trying to trade armies with late game Protoss and eventually he just got destroyed by warp in reinforcements.
Yes once Kas got more bases then Creator the only thing he should've done is sit back and defend. You can't break the Toss even if you beat his army you have to dry him out.
And thats why Creator attacked into 2 planetarys and destroyed him before that could happen.
But only after Kas wasted 1 big army and his bank on a stupid attack. He should've never moved out in the first place.
Well he caught him out of position and emp'd absolutely everything, so that probably gave him the impression he could win the battle. Silly TvP mistake =)
On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote: It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources.
You litterally have to wait in a great position for the toss to run into you while having at least even expansions. And once in a while you drop some stuff to keep them honest.
On February 03 2012 12:43 Bagration wrote: Late-game Protoss is incredible. I think CreatorPrime's play is so crazy powerful, it's a bit obscene. Watching that game made me wonder how Protoss had the troubles they did over past summer.
Losing to/getting crippled by 1 or 2 base timings.
On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote: It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources.
His engagement in the middle of the map cause him the game.He had 6 collosus at that engagement and 8 archon plus zealots 3/3/3.They will rip apart literally anything.
On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote: It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources.
It's all about building armor. With that planetaries would have held. Well not really. But it would have helped a ton.
On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote: It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources.
You litterally have to wait in a great position for the toss to run into you while having at least even expansions. And once in a while you drop some stuff to keep them honest.
Or maybe you should EMP the 10-15 fully upgraded archons? Or had more vikings than your opponent has colossi?
On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote: It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources.
If you watch the recent SK interview with MMA, he says that max vs max toss will roll Terran army, you have to be aggressive with drops throughout the entire game.
On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote: It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources.
You litterally have to wait in a great position for the toss to run into you while having at least even expansions. And once in a while you drop some stuff to keep them honest.
Or maybe you should EMP the 10-15 fully upgraded archons? Or had more vikings than your opponent has colossi?
cool, those vikings instantly become fodder the moment the collosus die for the fresh 30 warped in zealots right at your frontline from proxy pylon.
On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote: It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources.
It's all about building armor. With that planetaries would have held. Well not really. But it would have helped a ton.
On February 03 2012 12:41 Mordiford wrote: I feel like Kas fell into the trap that a lot of good Terran players fall into. He just kept trying to trade armies with late game Protoss and eventually he just got destroyed by warp in reinforcements.
Yes once Kas got more bases then Creator the only thing he should've done is sit back and defend. You can't break the Toss even if you beat his army you have to dry him out.
And thats why Creator attacked into 2 planetarys and destroyed him before that could happen.
But only after Kas wasted 1 big army and his bank on a stupid attack. He should've never moved out in the first place.
Well he caught him out of position and emp'd absolutely everything, so that probably gave him the impression he could win the battle. Silly TvP mistake =)
Yes indeed happens so often that you win the battle only to get stopped by the millions of instant reeinforcing Zealots you just can't kill .
On February 03 2012 12:41 Mordiford wrote: I feel like Kas fell into the trap that a lot of good Terran players fall into. He just kept trying to trade armies with late game Protoss and eventually he just got destroyed by warp in reinforcements.
Yes once Kas got more bases then Creator the only thing he should've done is sit back and defend. You can't break the Toss even if you beat his army you have to dry him out.
And thats why Creator attacked into 2 planetarys and destroyed him before that could happen.
But only after Kas wasted 1 big army and his bank on a stupid attack. He should've never moved out in the first place.
So basically you let the toss get crazy amount of bases or attack and die. Rock and a Hard place.
What the heck has happened to TvP? Did you watch IPL TAC1? The TvP winrate was in the 90s.
I'm thinking the early/midgame timing attacks are just not there, or maybe just sitting back and letting toss macro doesn't work. Something like that. I remember all of the TAC TvP's being disgusting stim-a-move MMM wins before 14minutes...
On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote: It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources.
You litterally have to wait in a great position for the toss to run into you while having at least even expansions. And once in a while you drop some stuff to keep them honest.
Or maybe you should EMP the 10-15 fully upgraded archons? Or had more vikings than your opponent has colossi?
He did the first few engagements, the last time, he was out of bank, but not because his macro slipped, only because he lost so much more than creator. The fight at the 12 o clock tower come out with 5 vikings left and literally EMPing EVERY SINGLE UNIT to no shields, yet he still lost his entire army and that's what put him on the back foot.
On February 03 2012 12:46 Heavenly wrote: Lmao at people balance whining when like 12 3/3/3 archons were dealing damage way before any EMPs went down in that engagement(and still very few did) and there were more colossi than vikings. Pretty sure Creator's army cost a LOT more, Kas had some planetaries down at bases not even mining, he was floating thousands of gas, etc. Having planetaries at bases doesn't make that an actual mining base.
Not only Kas had 2 planetary, his overall army limit was like at least 30 more due to mules.
On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote: It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources.
You litterally have to wait in a great position for the toss to run into you while having at least even expansions. And once in a while you drop some stuff to keep them honest.
Or maybe you should EMP the 10-15 fully upgraded archons? Or had more vikings than your opponent has colossi?
Yes, because 100 less shield energy on 10-15 fully upgraded archons are going to help. You need an obscene number of ghosts to blanket emp those archons and zealots.
On February 03 2012 12:46 Heavenly wrote: Lmao at people balance whining when like 12 3/3/3 archons were dealing damage way before any EMPs went down in that engagement(and still very few did) and there were more colossi than vikings. Pretty sure Creator's army cost a LOT more, Kas had some planetaries down at bases not even mining, he was floating thousands of gas, etc. Having planetaries at bases doesn't make that an actual mining base.
Not only Kas had 2 planetary, his overall army limit was like at least 30 more due to mules.
Last time I checked planetary fortresses aren't hero units, and it was like 75 to 75 workers before Kas sacrificed ~10. He could have easily sacrificed more with the amount of mules he had and gone for one massive army instead of constantly trading inefficiently.
On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote: It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources.
You litterally have to wait in a great position for the toss to run into you while having at least even expansions. And once in a while you drop some stuff to keep them honest.
Or maybe you should EMP the 10-15 fully upgraded archons? Or had more vikings than your opponent has colossi?
Yes, because 100 less shield energy on 10-15 fully upgraded archons are going to help. You need an obscene number of ghosts to blanket emp those archons and zealots.
Cool, you also need an obscene number of high templar to have 15 archons. Ghosts are also pretty good against zealot warpins.
On February 03 2012 12:41 Mordiford wrote: I feel like Kas fell into the trap that a lot of good Terran players fall into. He just kept trying to trade armies with late game Protoss and eventually he just got destroyed by warp in reinforcements.
Well, Kas was able to take an economic lead against Mana and force Mana to come to him, so it was kind of tricky for mana to put pylons to support his attack. Also it's harder to hide pylons on Daybreak.
On February 03 2012 12:46 Heavenly wrote: Lmao at people balance whining when like 12 3/3/3 archons were dealing damage way before any EMPs went down in that engagement(and still very few did) and there were more colossi than vikings. Pretty sure Creator's army cost a LOT more, Kas had some planetaries down at bases not even mining, he was floating thousands of gas, etc. Having planetaries at bases doesn't make that an actual mining base.
Not only Kas had 2 planetary, his overall army limit was like at least 30 more due to mules.
Last time I checked planetary fortresses aren't hero units, and it was like 75 to 75 workers before Kas sacrificed ~10. He could have easily sacrificed more with the amount of mules he had and gone for one massive army instead of constantly trading inefficiently.
And then hope to kill creator's whole army AND his 20+ reinforcing zealots and 3 colossi?
On February 03 2012 12:46 Heavenly wrote: Lmao at people balance whining when like 12 3/3/3 archons were dealing damage way before any EMPs went down in that engagement(and still very few did) and there were more colossi than vikings. Pretty sure Creator's army cost a LOT more, Kas had some planetaries down at bases not even mining, he was floating thousands of gas, etc. Having planetaries at bases doesn't make that an actual mining base.
Not only Kas had 2 planetary, his overall army limit was like at least 30 more due to mules.
Last time I checked planetary fortresses aren't hero units, and it was like 75 to 75 workers before Kas sacrificed ~10. He could have easily sacrificed more with the amount of mules he had and gone for one massive army instead of constantly trading inefficiently.
And then hope to kill creator's whole army AND his 20+ reinforcing zealots and 3 colossi?
Yes? Because his army could have been 50 supply more, pretty sure that can handle 20 reinforcing zealots. Was there a patch where you can warp in 3 colossi as well or what? An army with 50 more supply is significantly, significantly stronger.
On February 03 2012 12:52 lichter wrote: In entrenched positions I've no idea why Terran still sticks with MMGV. They just get slaughtered by AOE.
what else works?
I'm not going to suggest anything *cough*ArtosisMech *cough*, but if MMGV isn't working in really really late game then Terran needs to adjust and find a new composition. Just like what the other races have done (which is to evolve their compositions).
On February 03 2012 12:46 Heavenly wrote: Lmao at people balance whining when like 12 3/3/3 archons were dealing damage way before any EMPs went down in that engagement(and still very few did) and there were more colossi than vikings. Pretty sure Creator's army cost a LOT more, Kas had some planetaries down at bases not even mining, he was floating thousands of gas, etc. Having planetaries at bases doesn't make that an actual mining base.
Not only Kas had 2 planetary, his overall army limit was like at least 30 more due to mules.
Last time I checked planetary fortresses aren't hero units, and it was like 75 to 75 workers before Kas sacrificed ~10. He could have easily sacrificed more with the amount of mules he had and gone for one massive army instead of constantly trading inefficiently.
On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote: It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources.
You litterally have to wait in a great position for the toss to run into you while having at least even expansions. And once in a while you drop some stuff to keep them honest.
Or maybe you should EMP the 10-15 fully upgraded archons? Or had more vikings than your opponent has colossi?
Yes, because 100 less shield energy on 10-15 fully upgraded archons are going to help. You need an obscene number of ghosts to blanket emp those archons and zealots.
Cool, you also need an obscene number of high templar to have 15 archons. Ghosts are also pretty good against zealot warpins.
Doesn't that seem strange to you? So Terran needs to sacrifice dozens of workers, blanket emp all the archons and zealots, and even when engaging next to 2 Planaterys with a larger army it still might not be enough?
On February 03 2012 12:52 lichter wrote: In entrenched positions I've no idea why Terran still sticks with MMGV. They just get slaughtered by AOE.
what else works?
I'm not going to suggest anything *cough*ArtosisMech *cough*, but if MMGV isn't working in really really late game then Terran needs to adjust and find a new composition. Just like what the other races have done (which is to evolve their compositions).
theres a reason why MVP says mech is impossible vs Protoss and Goody resorting to bio vs Protoss.
On February 03 2012 12:41 Mordiford wrote: I feel like Kas fell into the trap that a lot of good Terran players fall into. He just kept trying to trade armies with late game Protoss and eventually he just got destroyed by warp in reinforcements.
Yes once Kas got more bases then Creator the only thing he should've done is sit back and defend. You can't break the Toss even if you beat his army you have to dry him out.
And thats why Creator attacked into 2 planetarys and destroyed him before that could happen.
But only after Kas wasted 1 big army and his bank on a stupid attack. He should've never moved out in the first place.
So basically you let the toss get crazy amount of bases or attack and die. Rock and a Hard place.
What the heck has happened to TvP? Did you watch IPL TAC1? The TvP winrate was in the 90s.
I'm thinking the early/midgame timing attacks are just not there, or maybe just sitting back and letting toss macro doesn't work. Something like that. I remember all of the TAC TvP's being disgusting stim-a-move MMM wins before 14minutes...
On February 03 2012 12:46 Heavenly wrote: Lmao at people balance whining when like 12 3/3/3 archons were dealing damage way before any EMPs went down in that engagement(and still very few did) and there were more colossi than vikings. Pretty sure Creator's army cost a LOT more, Kas had some planetaries down at bases not even mining, he was floating thousands of gas, etc. Having planetaries at bases doesn't make that an actual mining base.
Not only Kas had 2 planetary, his overall army limit was like at least 30 more due to mules.
Last time I checked planetary fortresses aren't hero units, and it was like 75 to 75 workers before Kas sacrificed ~10. He could have easily sacrificed more with the amount of mules he had and gone for one massive army instead of constantly trading inefficiently.
On February 03 2012 12:51 IMoperator wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:49 Heavenly wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:47 s3rp wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote: It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources.
You litterally have to wait in a great position for the toss to run into you while having at least even expansions. And once in a while you drop some stuff to keep them honest.
Or maybe you should EMP the 10-15 fully upgraded archons? Or had more vikings than your opponent has colossi?
Yes, because 100 less shield energy on 10-15 fully upgraded archons are going to help. You need an obscene number of ghosts to blanket emp those archons and zealots.
Cool, you also need an obscene number of high templar to have 15 archons. Ghosts are also pretty good against zealot warpins.
Doesn't that seem strange to you? So Terran needs to sacrifice dozens of workers, blanket emp all the archons and zealots, and even when engaging next to 2 Planaterys with a larger army it still might not be enough?
Terrans should not allow Protoss to reach that point. It is like the Sauron Toss styler: Once a critical mass is reached, game over.
On February 03 2012 12:46 Heavenly wrote: Lmao at people balance whining when like 12 3/3/3 archons were dealing damage way before any EMPs went down in that engagement(and still very few did) and there were more colossi than vikings. Pretty sure Creator's army cost a LOT more, Kas had some planetaries down at bases not even mining, he was floating thousands of gas, etc. Having planetaries at bases doesn't make that an actual mining base.
Not only Kas had 2 planetary, his overall army limit was like at least 30 more due to mules.
Last time I checked planetary fortresses aren't hero units, and it was like 75 to 75 workers before Kas sacrificed ~10. He could have easily sacrificed more with the amount of mules he had and gone for one massive army instead of constantly trading inefficiently.
On February 03 2012 12:51 IMoperator wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:49 Heavenly wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:47 s3rp wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote: It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources.
You litterally have to wait in a great position for the toss to run into you while having at least even expansions. And once in a while you drop some stuff to keep them honest.
Or maybe you should EMP the 10-15 fully upgraded archons? Or had more vikings than your opponent has colossi?
Yes, because 100 less shield energy on 10-15 fully upgraded archons are going to help. You need an obscene number of ghosts to blanket emp those archons and zealots.
Cool, you also need an obscene number of high templar to have 15 archons. Ghosts are also pretty good against zealot warpins.
Doesn't that seem strange to you? So Terran needs to sacrifice dozens of workers, blanket emp all the archons and zealots, and even when engaging next to 2 Planaterys with a larger army it still might not be enough?
Um, no? Why would that be strange? Did you see the income tab where the workers were even but it was 3000 minerals to 1800 minerals per second? Blanket EMP all of the archons and zealots, no, I dont think that's strange either, you have a unit that removes the shield from a unit that is primarily shields, and they are also fairly good against zealots in straight up combat too.
On February 03 2012 12:52 lichter wrote: In entrenched positions I've no idea why Terran still sticks with MMGV. They just get slaughtered by AOE.
what else works?
I'm not going to suggest anything *cough*ArtosisMech *cough*, but if MMGV isn't working in really really late game then Terran needs to adjust and find a new composition. Just like what the other races have done (which is to evolve their compositions).
Everything else has died out because it worked even less. Look at older VOD's replays . Tons of stuff was played but now basically everybody ( even Goody ) plays MMMGV if they don't do some funky early pushes.
On February 03 2012 12:46 Heavenly wrote: Lmao at people balance whining when like 12 3/3/3 archons were dealing damage way before any EMPs went down in that engagement(and still very few did) and there were more colossi than vikings. Pretty sure Creator's army cost a LOT more, Kas had some planetaries down at bases not even mining, he was floating thousands of gas, etc. Having planetaries at bases doesn't make that an actual mining base.
Not only Kas had 2 planetary, his overall army limit was like at least 30 more due to mules.
Last time I checked planetary fortresses aren't hero units, and it was like 75 to 75 workers before Kas sacrificed ~10. He could have easily sacrificed more with the amount of mules he had and gone for one massive army instead of constantly trading inefficiently.
On February 03 2012 12:51 IMoperator wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:49 Heavenly wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:47 s3rp wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote: It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources.
You litterally have to wait in a great position for the toss to run into you while having at least even expansions. And once in a while you drop some stuff to keep them honest.
Or maybe you should EMP the 10-15 fully upgraded archons? Or had more vikings than your opponent has colossi?
Yes, because 100 less shield energy on 10-15 fully upgraded archons are going to help. You need an obscene number of ghosts to blanket emp those archons and zealots.
Cool, you also need an obscene number of high templar to have 15 archons. Ghosts are also pretty good against zealot warpins.
Doesn't that seem strange to you? So Terran needs to sacrifice dozens of workers, blanket emp all the archons and zealots, and even when engaging next to 2 Planaterys with a larger army it still might not be enough?
Terrans should not allow Protoss to reach that point. It is like the Sauron Toss styler: Once a critical mass is reached, game over.
On February 03 2012 12:46 Heavenly wrote: Lmao at people balance whining when like 12 3/3/3 archons were dealing damage way before any EMPs went down in that engagement(and still very few did) and there were more colossi than vikings. Pretty sure Creator's army cost a LOT more, Kas had some planetaries down at bases not even mining, he was floating thousands of gas, etc. Having planetaries at bases doesn't make that an actual mining base.
Not only Kas had 2 planetary, his overall army limit was like at least 30 more due to mules.
Last time I checked planetary fortresses aren't hero units, and it was like 75 to 75 workers before Kas sacrificed ~10. He could have easily sacrificed more with the amount of mules he had and gone for one massive army instead of constantly trading inefficiently.
On February 03 2012 12:51 IMoperator wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:49 Heavenly wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:47 s3rp wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote: It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources.
You litterally have to wait in a great position for the toss to run into you while having at least even expansions. And once in a while you drop some stuff to keep them honest.
Or maybe you should EMP the 10-15 fully upgraded archons? Or had more vikings than your opponent has colossi?
Yes, because 100 less shield energy on 10-15 fully upgraded archons are going to help. You need an obscene number of ghosts to blanket emp those archons and zealots.
Cool, you also need an obscene number of high templar to have 15 archons. Ghosts are also pretty good against zealot warpins.
Doesn't that seem strange to you? So Terran needs to sacrifice dozens of workers, blanket emp all the archons and zealots, and even when engaging next to 2 Planaterys with a larger army it still might not be enough?
Terrans should not allow Protoss to reach that point. It is like the Sauron Toss styler: Once a critical mass is reached, game over.
It's straight up difficult to kill protoss straight up because they always have more supply than terran.
On February 03 2012 12:46 Heavenly wrote: Lmao at people balance whining when like 12 3/3/3 archons were dealing damage way before any EMPs went down in that engagement(and still very few did) and there were more colossi than vikings. Pretty sure Creator's army cost a LOT more, Kas had some planetaries down at bases not even mining, he was floating thousands of gas, etc. Having planetaries at bases doesn't make that an actual mining base.
Not only Kas had 2 planetary, his overall army limit was like at least 30 more due to mules.
Last time I checked planetary fortresses aren't hero units, and it was like 75 to 75 workers before Kas sacrificed ~10. He could have easily sacrificed more with the amount of mules he had and gone for one massive army instead of constantly trading inefficiently.
On February 03 2012 12:51 IMoperator wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:49 Heavenly wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:47 s3rp wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote: It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources.
You litterally have to wait in a great position for the toss to run into you while having at least even expansions. And once in a while you drop some stuff to keep them honest.
Or maybe you should EMP the 10-15 fully upgraded archons? Or had more vikings than your opponent has colossi?
Yes, because 100 less shield energy on 10-15 fully upgraded archons are going to help. You need an obscene number of ghosts to blanket emp those archons and zealots.
Cool, you also need an obscene number of high templar to have 15 archons. Ghosts are also pretty good against zealot warpins.
Doesn't that seem strange to you? So Terran needs to sacrifice dozens of workers, blanket emp all the archons and zealots, and even when engaging next to 2 Planaterys with a larger army it still might not be enough?
Um, no? Why would that be strange? Did you see the income tab where the workers were even but it was 3000 minerals to 1800 minerals per second? Blanket EMP all of the archons and zealots, no, I dont think that's strange either, you have a unit that removes the shield from a unit that is primarily shields, and they are also fairly good against zealots in straight up combat too.
Go to a unit tester map and have equal number of ghosts vs zealots straight up. I dare you.
On February 03 2012 12:46 Heavenly wrote: Lmao at people balance whining when like 12 3/3/3 archons were dealing damage way before any EMPs went down in that engagement(and still very few did) and there were more colossi than vikings. Pretty sure Creator's army cost a LOT more, Kas had some planetaries down at bases not even mining, he was floating thousands of gas, etc. Having planetaries at bases doesn't make that an actual mining base.
Not only Kas had 2 planetary, his overall army limit was like at least 30 more due to mules.
Last time I checked planetary fortresses aren't hero units, and it was like 75 to 75 workers before Kas sacrificed ~10. He could have easily sacrificed more with the amount of mules he had and gone for one massive army instead of constantly trading inefficiently.
On February 03 2012 12:51 IMoperator wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:49 Heavenly wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:47 s3rp wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote: It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources.
You litterally have to wait in a great position for the toss to run into you while having at least even expansions. And once in a while you drop some stuff to keep them honest.
Or maybe you should EMP the 10-15 fully upgraded archons? Or had more vikings than your opponent has colossi?
Yes, because 100 less shield energy on 10-15 fully upgraded archons are going to help. You need an obscene number of ghosts to blanket emp those archons and zealots.
Cool, you also need an obscene number of high templar to have 15 archons. Ghosts are also pretty good against zealot warpins.
Doesn't that seem strange to you? So Terran needs to sacrifice dozens of workers, blanket emp all the archons and zealots, and even when engaging next to 2 Planaterys with a larger army it still might not be enough?
Terrans should not allow Protoss to reach that point. It is like the Sauron Toss styler: Once a critical mass is reached, game over.
Why doesn't Terran have a GGball vs toss?
They might have, we just might not have discovered it yet.
On February 03 2012 12:52 lichter wrote: In entrenched positions I've no idea why Terran still sticks with MMGV. They just get slaughtered by AOE.
what else works?
I'm not going to suggest anything *cough*ArtosisMech *cough*, but if MMGV isn't working in really really late game then Terran needs to adjust and find a new composition. Just like what the other races have done (which is to evolve their compositions).
No, but please, whta CAN you do.
When you have 3/3 for bio units, 0/0 for mech and 3/0 for air what option than bio have you actually left for yourself?!
No idea why about five people in a row have decided the best strat against Creator is 15 minute no rush.
On February 03 2012 12:46 Heavenly wrote: Lmao at people balance whining when like 12 3/3/3 archons were dealing damage way before any EMPs went down in that engagement(and still very few did) and there were more colossi than vikings. Pretty sure Creator's army cost a LOT more, Kas had some planetaries down at bases not even mining, he was floating thousands of gas, etc. Having planetaries at bases doesn't make that an actual mining base.
Not only Kas had 2 planetary, his overall army limit was like at least 30 more due to mules.
Last time I checked planetary fortresses aren't hero units, and it was like 75 to 75 workers before Kas sacrificed ~10. He could have easily sacrificed more with the amount of mules he had and gone for one massive army instead of constantly trading inefficiently.
On February 03 2012 12:51 IMoperator wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:49 Heavenly wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:47 s3rp wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote: It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources.
You litterally have to wait in a great position for the toss to run into you while having at least even expansions. And once in a while you drop some stuff to keep them honest.
Or maybe you should EMP the 10-15 fully upgraded archons? Or had more vikings than your opponent has colossi?
Yes, because 100 less shield energy on 10-15 fully upgraded archons are going to help. You need an obscene number of ghosts to blanket emp those archons and zealots.
Cool, you also need an obscene number of high templar to have 15 archons. Ghosts are also pretty good against zealot warpins.
Doesn't that seem strange to you? So Terran needs to sacrifice dozens of workers, blanket emp all the archons and zealots, and even when engaging next to 2 Planaterys with a larger army it still might not be enough?
Um, no? Why would that be strange? Did you see the income tab where the workers were even but it was 3000 minerals to 1800 minerals per second? Blanket EMP all of the archons and zealots, no, I dont think that's strange either, you have a unit that removes the shield from a unit that is primarily shields, and they are also fairly good against zealots in straight up combat too.
Go to a unit tester map and have equal number of ghosts vs zealots straight up. I dare you.
Last time I checked I wasn't talking about ghosts versus zealots in a straight up fight, so why would I ever do that? Terran could have had a significantly larger army than he had if he sacrificed his workers.
On February 03 2012 12:46 Heavenly wrote: Lmao at people balance whining when like 12 3/3/3 archons were dealing damage way before any EMPs went down in that engagement(and still very few did) and there were more colossi than vikings. Pretty sure Creator's army cost a LOT more, Kas had some planetaries down at bases not even mining, he was floating thousands of gas, etc. Having planetaries at bases doesn't make that an actual mining base.
Not only Kas had 2 planetary, his overall army limit was like at least 30 more due to mules.
Last time I checked planetary fortresses aren't hero units, and it was like 75 to 75 workers before Kas sacrificed ~10. He could have easily sacrificed more with the amount of mules he had and gone for one massive army instead of constantly trading inefficiently.
On February 03 2012 12:51 IMoperator wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:49 Heavenly wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:47 s3rp wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote: It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources.
You litterally have to wait in a great position for the toss to run into you while having at least even expansions. And once in a while you drop some stuff to keep them honest.
Or maybe you should EMP the 10-15 fully upgraded archons? Or had more vikings than your opponent has colossi?
Yes, because 100 less shield energy on 10-15 fully upgraded archons are going to help. You need an obscene number of ghosts to blanket emp those archons and zealots.
Cool, you also need an obscene number of high templar to have 15 archons. Ghosts are also pretty good against zealot warpins.
Doesn't that seem strange to you? So Terran needs to sacrifice dozens of workers, blanket emp all the archons and zealots, and even when engaging next to 2 Planaterys with a larger army it still might not be enough?
Um, no? Why would that be strange? Did you see the income tab where the workers were even but it was 3000 minerals to 1800 minerals per second? Blanket EMP all of the archons and zealots, no, I dont think that's strange either, you have a unit that removes the shield from a unit that is primarily shields, and they are also fairly good against zealots in straight up combat too.
Go to a unit tester map and have equal number of ghosts vs zealots straight up. I dare you.
Last time I checked I wasn't talking about ghosts versus zealots in a straight up fight, so why would I ever do that? Terran could have had a significantly larger army than he had if he sacrificed his workers.
"and they are also fairly good against zealots in straight up combat too."
On February 03 2012 12:46 Heavenly wrote: Lmao at people balance whining when like 12 3/3/3 archons were dealing damage way before any EMPs went down in that engagement(and still very few did) and there were more colossi than vikings. Pretty sure Creator's army cost a LOT more, Kas had some planetaries down at bases not even mining, he was floating thousands of gas, etc. Having planetaries at bases doesn't make that an actual mining base.
Not only Kas had 2 planetary, his overall army limit was like at least 30 more due to mules.
Last time I checked planetary fortresses aren't hero units, and it was like 75 to 75 workers before Kas sacrificed ~10. He could have easily sacrificed more with the amount of mules he had and gone for one massive army instead of constantly trading inefficiently.
On February 03 2012 12:51 IMoperator wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:49 Heavenly wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:47 s3rp wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote: It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources.
You litterally have to wait in a great position for the toss to run into you while having at least even expansions. And once in a while you drop some stuff to keep them honest.
Or maybe you should EMP the 10-15 fully upgraded archons? Or had more vikings than your opponent has colossi?
Yes, because 100 less shield energy on 10-15 fully upgraded archons are going to help. You need an obscene number of ghosts to blanket emp those archons and zealots.
Cool, you also need an obscene number of high templar to have 15 archons. Ghosts are also pretty good against zealot warpins.
Doesn't that seem strange to you? So Terran needs to sacrifice dozens of workers, blanket emp all the archons and zealots, and even when engaging next to 2 Planaterys with a larger army it still might not be enough?
Terrans should not allow Protoss to reach that point. It is like the Sauron Toss styler: Once a critical mass is reached, game over.
The problem is 3 Bases is enough for Protoss to reach the GG-Ball and there are so many Maps out there that basically gift basket everybody 3 Bases.
On February 03 2012 12:52 Heavenly wrote: Last time I checked planetary fortresses aren't hero units, and it was like 75 to 75 workers before Kas sacrificed ~10. He could have easily sacrificed more with the amount of mules he had and gone for one massive army instead of constantly trading inefficiently.
As long as I remember, he sacrified much more than just 10... AND toss army was completely EMPed. Completely. Moreover, warpins of 8(!!!!) Arcons at a time. Isn't it ridiculous? It's like +8 thors for terran or +8 ultras for zerg. RIDICULOUS.
On February 03 2012 12:46 Heavenly wrote: Lmao at people balance whining when like 12 3/3/3 archons were dealing damage way before any EMPs went down in that engagement(and still very few did) and there were more colossi than vikings. Pretty sure Creator's army cost a LOT more, Kas had some planetaries down at bases not even mining, he was floating thousands of gas, etc. Having planetaries at bases doesn't make that an actual mining base.
Not only Kas had 2 planetary, his overall army limit was like at least 30 more due to mules.
Last time I checked planetary fortresses aren't hero units, and it was like 75 to 75 workers before Kas sacrificed ~10. He could have easily sacrificed more with the amount of mules he had and gone for one massive army instead of constantly trading inefficiently.
On February 03 2012 12:51 IMoperator wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:49 Heavenly wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:47 s3rp wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote: It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources.
You litterally have to wait in a great position for the toss to run into you while having at least even expansions. And once in a while you drop some stuff to keep them honest.
Or maybe you should EMP the 10-15 fully upgraded archons? Or had more vikings than your opponent has colossi?
Yes, because 100 less shield energy on 10-15 fully upgraded archons are going to help. You need an obscene number of ghosts to blanket emp those archons and zealots.
Cool, you also need an obscene number of high templar to have 15 archons. Ghosts are also pretty good against zealot warpins.
Doesn't that seem strange to you? So Terran needs to sacrifice dozens of workers, blanket emp all the archons and zealots, and even when engaging next to 2 Planaterys with a larger army it still might not be enough?
Terrans should not allow Protoss to reach that point. It is like the Sauron Toss styler: Once a critical mass is reached, game over.
The problem is 3 Bases is enough for Protoss to reach the GG-Ball and there are some Map out there that basically gift basket everybody 3 Bases.
On February 03 2012 12:46 Heavenly wrote: Lmao at people balance whining when like 12 3/3/3 archons were dealing damage way before any EMPs went down in that engagement(and still very few did) and there were more colossi than vikings. Pretty sure Creator's army cost a LOT more, Kas had some planetaries down at bases not even mining, he was floating thousands of gas, etc. Having planetaries at bases doesn't make that an actual mining base.
Not only Kas had 2 planetary, his overall army limit was like at least 30 more due to mules.
Last time I checked planetary fortresses aren't hero units, and it was like 75 to 75 workers before Kas sacrificed ~10. He could have easily sacrificed more with the amount of mules he had and gone for one massive army instead of constantly trading inefficiently.
And then hope to kill creator's whole army AND his 20+ reinforcing zealots and 3 colossi?
Yes? Because his army could have been 50 supply more, pretty sure that can handle 20 reinforcing zealots. Was there a patch where you can warp in 3 colossi as well or what? An army with 50 more supply is significantly, significantly stronger.
It's called chrono boost and 3 robos. I don't understand how you keep this up, that game showed everything wrong with the matchup, not necessarily imbalance either, it's just poorly designed.
On February 03 2012 12:52 lichter wrote: In entrenched positions I've no idea why Terran still sticks with MMGV. They just get slaughtered by AOE.
what else works?
I'm not going to suggest anything *cough*ArtosisMech *cough*, but if MMGV isn't working in really really late game then Terran needs to adjust and find a new composition. Just like what the other races have done (which is to evolve their compositions).
theres a reason why MVP says mech is impossible vs Protoss and Goody resorting to bio vs Protoss.
Note that I mention: in entrenched positions when you can't attack and he can't attack. Mech vs Protoss is hopeless because of warp ins and mobility, but when you are at a stalement I don't see why it isn't a reasonable transition? Again I'm not advocating the use of Mech in TvP as standard, but as a transition in super late game, because mech is more efficient than bio, but less mobile. TvP is lowtech mass units vs hightech + meatshields, and the advantage of lowtech should be quicker reinforcements, but it doesn't work because of warpgates (not balance whine). Aside from mobility, I don't see the point of staying on MMGV at super late game unless you can abuse that mobility.
On February 03 2012 12:46 Heavenly wrote: Lmao at people balance whining when like 12 3/3/3 archons were dealing damage way before any EMPs went down in that engagement(and still very few did) and there were more colossi than vikings. Pretty sure Creator's army cost a LOT more, Kas had some planetaries down at bases not even mining, he was floating thousands of gas, etc. Having planetaries at bases doesn't make that an actual mining base.
Not only Kas had 2 planetary, his overall army limit was like at least 30 more due to mules.
Last time I checked planetary fortresses aren't hero units, and it was like 75 to 75 workers before Kas sacrificed ~10. He could have easily sacrificed more with the amount of mules he had and gone for one massive army instead of constantly trading inefficiently.
And then hope to kill creator's whole army AND his 20+ reinforcing zealots and 3 colossi?
Yes? Because his army could have been 50 supply more, pretty sure that can handle 20 reinforcing zealots. Was there a patch where you can warp in 3 colossi as well or what? An army with 50 more supply is significantly, significantly stronger.
It's called chrono boost and 3 robos. I don't understand how you keep this up, that game showed everything wrong with the matchup, not necessarily imbalance either, it's just poorly designed.
it may not be imba, but poor design can lead to imba , just btw ><
On February 03 2012 12:46 Heavenly wrote: Lmao at people balance whining when like 12 3/3/3 archons were dealing damage way before any EMPs went down in that engagement(and still very few did) and there were more colossi than vikings. Pretty sure Creator's army cost a LOT more, Kas had some planetaries down at bases not even mining, he was floating thousands of gas, etc. Having planetaries at bases doesn't make that an actual mining base.
Not only Kas had 2 planetary, his overall army limit was like at least 30 more due to mules.
Last time I checked planetary fortresses aren't hero units, and it was like 75 to 75 workers before Kas sacrificed ~10. He could have easily sacrificed more with the amount of mules he had and gone for one massive army instead of constantly trading inefficiently.
On February 03 2012 12:51 IMoperator wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:49 Heavenly wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:47 s3rp wrote:
On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote: It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources.
You litterally have to wait in a great position for the toss to run into you while having at least even expansions. And once in a while you drop some stuff to keep them honest.
Or maybe you should EMP the 10-15 fully upgraded archons? Or had more vikings than your opponent has colossi?
Yes, because 100 less shield energy on 10-15 fully upgraded archons are going to help. You need an obscene number of ghosts to blanket emp those archons and zealots.
Cool, you also need an obscene number of high templar to have 15 archons. Ghosts are also pretty good against zealot warpins.
Doesn't that seem strange to you? So Terran needs to sacrifice dozens of workers, blanket emp all the archons and zealots, and even when engaging next to 2 Planaterys with a larger army it still might not be enough?
Um, no? Why would that be strange? Did you see the income tab where the workers were even but it was 3000 minerals to 1800 minerals per second? Blanket EMP all of the archons and zealots, no, I dont think that's strange either, you have a unit that removes the shield from a unit that is primarily shields, and they are also fairly good against zealots in straight up combat too.
Go to a unit tester map and have equal number of ghosts vs zealots straight up. I dare you.
Last time I checked I wasn't talking about ghosts versus zealots in a straight up fight, so why would I ever do that? Terran could have had a significantly larger army than he had if he sacrificed his workers.
"and they are also fairly good against zealots in straight up combat too."
Context? There could have been an additional 10 ghosts and many more vikings for Kas and it would have been pretty one-sided. I didn't say 10 ghosts will beat 10 chargelots, but 10 additional ghosts in Kas' maxed army versus the army of Creator Prime would have given him a significantly better army, and those ghosts in combination with the rest of the surviving army could take out the reinforcing zealots.
On February 03 2012 12:46 Heavenly wrote: Lmao at people balance whining when like 12 3/3/3 archons were dealing damage way before any EMPs went down in that engagement(and still very few did) and there were more colossi than vikings. Pretty sure Creator's army cost a LOT more, Kas had some planetaries down at bases not even mining, he was floating thousands of gas, etc. Having planetaries at bases doesn't make that an actual mining base.
Not only Kas had 2 planetary, his overall army limit was like at least 30 more due to mules.
Last time I checked planetary fortresses aren't hero units, and it was like 75 to 75 workers before Kas sacrificed ~10. He could have easily sacrificed more with the amount of mules he had and gone for one massive army instead of constantly trading inefficiently.
And then hope to kill creator's whole army AND his 20+ reinforcing zealots and 3 colossi?
Yes? Because his army could have been 50 supply more, pretty sure that can handle 20 reinforcing zealots. Was there a patch where you can warp in 3 colossi as well or what? An army with 50 more supply is significantly, significantly stronger.
It's called chrono boost and 3 robos. I don't understand how you keep this up, that game showed everything wrong with the matchup, not necessarily imbalance either, it's just poorly designed.
You were acting like Creator could instantly reinforce his army with 20 zealots as well as those 3 colossi, no, those colossi have to build. His ability to build colossi doesn't matter whatsoever in this situation. Kas can also build 6 vikings at a time with three reactored starports, what does that matter? And that game showed that a significantly more expensive army with non-EMPed archons and not many vikings versus like 8 colossi wins.
On February 03 2012 12:52 lichter wrote: In entrenched positions I've no idea why Terran still sticks with MMGV. They just get slaughtered by AOE.
what else works?
I'm not going to suggest anything *cough*ArtosisMech *cough*, but if MMGV isn't working in really really late game then Terran needs to adjust and find a new composition. Just like what the other races have done (which is to evolve their compositions).
theres a reason why MVP says mech is impossible vs Protoss and Goody resorting to bio vs Protoss.
Note that I mention: in entrenched positions when you can't attack and he can't attack. Mech vs Protoss is hopeless because of warp ins and mobility, but when you are at a stalement I don't see why it isn't a reasonable transition? Again I'm not advocating the use of Mech in TvP as standard, but as a transition in super late game, because mech is more efficient than bio, but less mobile. TvP is lowtech mass units vs hightech + meatshields, and the advantage of lowtech should be quicker reinforcements, but it doesn't work because of warpgates (not balance whine). Aside from mobility, I don't see the point of staying on MMGV at super late game unless you can abuse that mobility.
Tanks are just BAD and i mean really really horrid against Zealots and Archons. Tanks deal more damage to own units then to Zealots and Archons .
On February 03 2012 12:45 IMoperator wrote: It's pretty ridiculous that Creator did the worst possible engagement attacking into planetaries and still was able to break through and wreck kas's army. Idk what terran is supposed to do in that situation, you can't really ever attack into the toss because of warp ins but defending just lets them bank a shit ton of resources.
It's all about building armor. With that planetaries would have held. Well not really. But it would have helped a ton.
I'm sorry. What?
A subtle Gretorp joke. That and building armor couldn't have hindered considering all the money he had. 2 armor and zealots do 2 strikes a piece.
jesus creator needs more antiair than just archons, the vikings are doing way too much damage to the colossi and he doesn't have any unmorphed templar to storm
There could have been an additional 10 ghosts and many more vikings for Kas and it would have been pretty one-sided. I didn't say 10 ghosts will beat 10 chargelots, but 10 additional ghosts in Kas' maxed army versus the army of Creator Prime would have given him a significantly better army, and those ghosts in combination with the rest of the surviving army could take out the reinforcing zealots.
heh, and the ghosts just comes out of the thin air along with the Vikings? Well, if Kas had 100 more BCs, he would have crushed that as well... The point was, Creator could warp in Archons faster then Kas could get Ghosts... Kas had a good Ghost count at the beginning but just couldn't keep up
On February 03 2012 12:52 lichter wrote: In entrenched positions I've no idea why Terran still sticks with MMGV. They just get slaughtered by AOE.
what else works?
I'm not going to suggest anything *cough*ArtosisMech *cough*, but if MMGV isn't working in really really late game then Terran needs to adjust and find a new composition. Just like what the other races have done (which is to evolve their compositions).
theres a reason why MVP says mech is impossible vs Protoss and Goody resorting to bio vs Protoss.
Note that I mention: in entrenched positions when you can't attack and he can't attack. Mech vs Protoss is hopeless because of warp ins and mobility, but when you are at a stalement I don't see why it isn't a reasonable transition? Again I'm not advocating the use of Mech in TvP as standard, but as a transition in super late game, because mech is more efficient than bio, but less mobile. TvP is lowtech mass units vs hightech + meatshields, and the advantage of lowtech should be quicker reinforcements, but it doesn't work because of warpgates (not balance whine). Aside from mobility, I don't see the point of staying on MMGV at super late game unless you can abuse that mobility.
Tanks are just BAD and i mean really really horrid against Zealots and Archons.
Not tanks then?
I'm not saying I have a solution, obviously I am no pro, but I am interested to see how TvP super late game will evolve because I don't think it's going to stay MMGV.
And just as I say that it Happy owns it with mass Ghost???? :o :o
There could have been an additional 10 ghosts and many more vikings for Kas and it would have been pretty one-sided. I didn't say 10 ghosts will beat 10 chargelots, but 10 additional ghosts in Kas' maxed army versus the army of Creator Prime would have given him a significantly better army, and those ghosts in combination with the rest of the surviving army could take out the reinforcing zealots.
heh, and the ghosts just comes out of the thin air along with the Vikings? Well, if Kas had 100 more BCs, he would have crushed that as well... The point was, Creator could warp in Archons faster then Kas could get Ghosts... Kas had a good Ghost count at the beginning but just couldn't keep up
Yes, in this game Kas did not have the resources to be able to make those many ghosts and vikings at that point because Creator had some good engagements where he came up on top. Creator also had a very large lead in the beginning with his third up while Kas kept floating his around, so he was ahead for a significant portion of the game. At one point however Kas was maxed out with like 4000/4000 and made 13 marauders, like 6 vikings, several ghosts, etc. at once to reinforce. So he could have had those ghosts and vikings.
On February 03 2012 13:08 devPLEASE wrote: Anyone know where I can see the results since I just got home? Or if anyone can tell me that's be great also.
On February 03 2012 13:08 devPLEASE wrote: Anyone know where I can see the results since I just got home? Or if anyone can tell me that's be great also.
On February 03 2012 13:08 devPLEASE wrote: Anyone know where I can see the results since I just got home? Or if anyone can tell me that's be great also.
It's currently 4-4 Beasty took out core classic and annyeong, creator took out beasty violet aristeo kas, and happy took out creator
Very nice play from Happy, but I think creator could have played that much better =(
Oh look, Happy is winning late game while outplaying Creator and he has a large count of ghosts and vikings. Looks like maybe one game isn't enough to whine.
On February 03 2012 13:10 Heavenly wrote: Oh look, Happy is winning late game while outplaying Creator and he has a large count of ghosts and vikings. Looks like maybe one game isn't enough to whine.
On February 03 2012 13:10 Heavenly wrote: Oh look, Happy is winning late game while outplaying Creator and he has a large count of ghosts and vikings. Looks like maybe one game isn't enough to whine.
On February 03 2012 13:10 Heavenly wrote: Oh look, Happy is winning late game while outplaying Creator and he has a large count of ghosts and vikings. Looks like maybe one game isn't enough to whine.
You should read some GSTL.
All threads on TL eventually devolve into balance whine :p
I gotta admit, I think I've been looking at tvp wrong lmao. Maybe you toss were right, mass ghosts+vikings+medivacs and only a few marauders might be what works! I'll have to try this out later
On February 03 2012 13:10 Heavenly wrote: Oh look, Happy is winning late game while outplaying Creator and he has a large count of ghosts and vikings. Looks like maybe one game isn't enough to whine.
How hypocritical is that lol, T have been underperforming late game TvP for over a month, and you pick out 1 game to make your point where P had cross server lag and wasn't playing that well? ok.
Gogo! I'm sad that it's happy's worst MU iirc, but MKP can relate >.> gogo epic ace match
I think the Euro terrans are actually better at handling late game TvPs right now (even Kas who lost)... I think because Protoss was so weak for several months in Korean (except MC but he doesn't do this macro style as much). Hopefully, the Korean Terrans will catch up and move the TvP meta game along.
On February 03 2012 13:15 vthree wrote: I think the Euro terrans are actually better at handling late game TvPs right now (even Kas who lost)... I think because Protoss was so weak for several months in Korean (except MC but he doesn't do this macro style as much). Hopefully, the Korean Terrans will catch up and move the TvP meta game along.
Are you joking? Are you saying Euro Terrans can handle late game TvP better than Korean Terrans.LOL
On February 03 2012 13:10 Heavenly wrote: Oh look, Happy is winning late game while outplaying Creator and he has a large count of ghosts and vikings. Looks like maybe one game isn't enough to whine.
Yeah great, when P masses immortals vs ghosts and then proceeds to make colossus without any antiair, I'll know what to do from now on! If he had mass zealots and bothered to get more obs he woulda just won.
how is masszealot an answer to massghosts? you know how many hits zealots need to kill a ghost??? ghosts have snipe, medivacs, emps as well. zealots are def not the answer - i cannot think of anything but superior HT control, some colossus and blinkstalker/zealot mix, prolly with guardian shield. pretty much what creator played, but you have to control even better.
On February 03 2012 13:10 Heavenly wrote: Oh look, Happy is winning late game while outplaying Creator and he has a large count of ghosts and vikings. Looks like maybe one game isn't enough to whine.
Yeah great, when P masses immortals vs ghosts and then proceeds to make colossus without any antiair, I'll know what to do from now on! If he had mass zealots and bothered to get more obs he woulda just won.
Yeah great, you win when you outplay your opponent and he makes mistakes while you don't. \At what point of that game would he have been able to win with mass zealot? There's a supply limit in this game, he can't have enough probes for the late game, a large amount of colossi, enough stalkers for anti-air (being essentially worthless for anything else in a maxed engagement, they have no DPS versus terran), an imba amount of archons, and huge amount of zealots.
On February 03 2012 13:14 Rabbet wrote: So was Happy targeting the observers with his vikings? I can't even see them in that huge mess...
He doesn't really need to spot them mid battle when you can just mass scan and A-move the vikings. He did a really good job thou sniping the obs before quite a few engagements
On February 03 2012 13:10 Heavenly wrote: Oh look, Happy is winning late game while outplaying Creator and he has a large count of ghosts and vikings. Looks like maybe one game isn't enough to whine.
Yeah great, when P masses immortals vs ghosts and then proceeds to make colossus without any antiair, I'll know what to do from now on! If he had mass zealots and bothered to get more obs he woulda just won.
how is masszealot an answer to massghosts? you know how many hits zealots need to kill a ghost??? ghosts have snipe, medivacs, emps as well. zealots are def not the answer - i cannot think of anything but superior HT control, some colossus and blinkstalker/zealot mix, prolly with guardian shield. pretty much what creator played, but you have to control even better.
How to control better when they got snipe and EMP??-.- Snipe outrange feedback and templar cannot storm because of that.
On February 03 2012 13:17 Shellshock1122 wrote: Marineking played really well in the first round of code s. Hopefully it continues here and in the GSL group of death
I agree but I think you may have the wrong thread good sir ^^
On February 03 2012 13:13 NPF wrote: GhostKingPrime, move over. Empire.Happy just took another Korean players name. lol
he is older than IMHappy.
EmpireHappy is warcraft 3 legend like Grubby.
Not a legend.
Hard to be a legend when playing UD. (But he was a very good UD player though.)
well to be honest, he was the best undead player in europe, in the last 2 years #2 ud in the world after TeD.
sad that being #2 ud in the world barely made you being top 15-20 in the world :D
Yes UD was pretty terribad in wc3 =(
With this medivac I think happy will hold with minimal damages, the tank was reactive after he scouted the hellion, most common followup in korea atm is a banshee marine hellion attack, which tanks take care of quite nicely
On February 03 2012 13:13 NPF wrote: GhostKingPrime, move over. Empire.Happy just took another Korean players name. lol
he is older than IMHappy.
EmpireHappy is warcraft 3 legend like Grubby.
Not a legend.
Hard to be a legend when playing UD. (But he was a very good UD player though.)
well to be honest, he was the best undead player in europe, in the last 2 years #2 ud in the world after TeD.
sad that being #2 ud in the world barely made you being top 15-20 in the world :D
so it was like being the #2 protoss in korea after MC for the first half of 2011?
I thought ToD played Human?
TeD is chinese undead
ToD is french human
So confusing! My mistake. Misread. It's late.
Rofl, if it makes you feel better, the writers at GosuGamers did the same thing when TeD was announced as an invite into the War3 G-League. They headlined the article with ToD instead of TeD and had to edit it later.
Empire is so disappointing in this series. cant believe they let this advantage slip away. Especially violet who instead of killing a stalker and a zealot with his 10 lings sent them on 2 cannons and lost for nothing, all downhill from that moment
On February 03 2012 13:22 Pirat6662001 wrote: Why is happy so far behind already? he got 2nd comand center 1st and didnt lose svcs but still big time behind
54/54 supply block forever if I saw it right. Happens quite often for Happy in some games, in others he plays superb :/
On February 03 2012 13:29 Kergy wrote: How did this guy beat Creator...
I thought he was IM so that why I was like this guy is good but then I saw MKP slap him down.
ye, hes on empire and not on IM, therefore, he isnt good.
Happy is stomping P's and Z's left and right, TvT is his worst matchup and he is known for that - especially because he cannot use his superior control in that matchup (superior to the average pro...) - he is not the best with creating builds and think very smart.
was enough to beat puma though... how can u call him bad cause he lost to MKP -,- where are your standards?
On February 03 2012 13:15 Applesqt wrote: Congrats to prime
not over yet.
No, but trust me.
You're the Doctor?
Told you. I feel like I should tell tournaments that you can figure out the winner of replay casted games without watching the whole thing.
a lot of people know this but it's usually not cool to spoil a tournament match before it has been played.
A lot of people could also guessed that, I just wish tournaments would stop showing the rest of the replay after the GG has been said or alternatively make it so that whoever wins the set sends it in.
On February 03 2012 13:29 Kergy wrote: How did this guy beat Creator...
I thought he was IM so that why I was like this guy is good but then I saw MKP slap him down.
ye, hes on empire and not on IM, therefore, he isnt good.
Happy is stomping P's and Z's left and right, TvT is his worst matchup and he is known for that - especially because he cannot use his superior control in that matchup (superior to the average pro...) - he is not the best with creating builds and think very smart.
was enough to beat puma though... how can u call him bad cause he lost to MKP -,- where are your standards?
Maybe he thought Happy was as good as IMMVP. But discovered that this Happy is not on IM.
"Happy is stomping P's and Z's left and right, TvT is his worst matchup and he is known for that - especially because he cannot use his superior control in that matchup (superior to the average pro...) - he is not the best with creating builds and think very smart." this he's actually pwning literally everyone last monthes again. But he is struggling in TvT since beta
Great showing by Empire tonight. Remember guys that Prime just won the KSL and got second in the GSTL - they are really good and for Empire to bring it that close (If Kas had won vs. Creator I think Empire would have taken it) really says something about their team.
Hey IPL, I was just looking at the full Power Rankings, and I think that it is just too much work to a Power ranking of hundreds of players, as it would be very hard to give a faithful representation with so many players. For example, Destiny and TLO are above Slayers Taeja in the Power Rankings.
Just a suggestion: I would, instead of creating a massive database like TLPD, just create a Power Ranking of the top 100 players, as it becomes somewhat meaningless beyond the 100th player, and many players on the list are even inactive/retired. Limiting it to only the top 100 would also allow the list's creators to do quality control, such as determining if a factor inflates a player's rank and adjust accordingly.
It would also be cool if IPL could do a Power Ranking for teams, possibly using an aggregation of individual Power Rankings and results in the Team Leagues.
Casting was much better tonight, the difference betwee doa+catspajamas and HS+painuser is night and day for me. The only thing I didn't get is the power ranking stuff, that list makes no sense and I don't understand how any algorithm could have spit that out.
On February 03 2012 15:14 xdthreat wrote: how do the server selections work for these leagues?
From what I understand if it's a European team vs a Korean team it defaults to the American server. Not 100% sure but I think I heard Catspyjamas say that in a cast.
On February 03 2012 19:22 Poopi wrote: I guess that Creator isn't used to the lag since he lost a game. Nice close by MKP =D
Dont say that man, empire played goddamn well last night.
Yeah but still, MKP and few others participated in a lot of NA events (FXO, NASL qualifiers etc) but I don't recall Creator doing it, so it probably bothered him more. Can't wait to see the vods/rebroadcast
GSL S2 RO64 "And imagine this Boxer faker noob gets vs Fruitdealer and cheese his way to victory _ I haven't seen a single cheese technique from him yet - but judging by the micro he has, I don't think his cheese can beat Fruitdealer."
On February 03 2012 22:29 tapk69 wrote: poopi this was said by who ? Artosis?
GSL S2 RO64 "And imagine this Boxer faker noob gets vs Fruitdealer and cheese his way to victory _ I haven't seen a single cheese technique from him yet - but judging by the micro he has, I don't think his cheese can beat Fruitdealer."
No. It was on the LR thread, I can't recall who but it would be easy to find ^^. There was that TL guy Manifesto7 who hated on Clare[shield] and made fun of him. But yeah it could have been from Artosis since at that time he was like "well he (MKP) won't win even if he kills the hatchery, because he is bad you know" when MKP played his match against FruitDealer :D
To the attention of IPL production: is it necessary to have a big red "rebroadcast" notice on the lower right? It is quite ugly, something more discreet would be appreciable.
I was very impressed with creator, i had not heard of him before. He had such a "weird" style but man did he punish them when he maxed out ... and also MKP is back!
I was very impressed with creator, i had not heard of him before. He had such a "weird" style but man did he punish them when he maxed out ... and also MKP is back!
Creator is an up-and-coming player who has been under the "secondary spotlight" for a while now, particularly since Prime has started using him as their ace in teamleagues. He is basically the Protoss version of Leenock/Jjakji: really young and really strong.
I was very impressed with creator, i had not heard of him before. He had such a "weird" style but man did he punish them when he maxed out ... and also MKP is back!
He plays is team leagues a lot, he did the same against FXO in the KSL as he did against Empire. He also beat DRG in the KSL semi finals and Jjakji in the final, both to win the game.
really nice showing by empire btw.. they are a crazy good team despite losing a lot of talent to other organizations! They just keep coming back stronger, so sick.
On February 03 2012 01:48 Poopi wrote: Since it's cross-server Empire may have a chance. I just hope that Prime will win, but cross-server results are always disappointing
It`s played on NA. Eastern Europe may have even worse latency than Korea sometimes.
When I said it (somewhere) people thought im saying that EU > NA is worse than KR > NA, I didnt mean that, but that east EU > NA got worse lag than KR > NA and this was tested when Kas and me were at WCG.
But saying Empire might have a chance because of that is funny since we lag more
how is it for u? u are not really eastern europe, more central than eastern^^
and why are there no EU -> Asia internet wires? ...
I have seen the rebroadcast just now... Great games , well played by both teams , Empire is one of the strongest foreigner teams. But my favorite team is Prime , and they are on a roll !
As for the Power Rankings , they are strange : -Stephano 5# , Idra 12?# (too high )
On February 04 2012 06:11 tapk69 wrote: I have seen the rebroadcast just now... Great games , well played by both teams , Empire is one of the strongest foreigner teams. But my favorite team is Prime , and they are on a roll !
As for the Power Rankings , they are strange : -Stephano 5# , Idra 12?# (too high )
-MKP 9# , Nestea 13# , jjakji 14# (too low)
Power rankings are systematically a joke, IPL's are just an example, but I think they are just doing it for the hashtags/community since they encouraged viewers to fix them. I would just ignore the issue altogether.
This was a two man show with Beasty and Creator. Great fight. ^^ It's funny how sarcastic Cats-pj sounds when he agrees with his co-caster. Yeeaah / Riiight / Suure / mm-huh :D
On February 03 2012 01:48 Poopi wrote: Since it's cross-server Empire may have a chance. I just hope that Prime will win, but cross-server results are always disappointing
It`s played on NA. Eastern Europe may have even worse latency than Korea sometimes.
When I said it (somewhere) people thought im saying that EU > NA is worse than KR > NA, I didnt mean that, but that east EU > NA got worse lag than KR > NA and this was tested when Kas and me were at WCG.
But saying Empire might have a chance because of that is funny since we lag more
how is it for u? u are not really eastern europe, more central than eastern^^
and why are there no EU -> Asia internet wires? ...
Sometimes there is really zero delay, vs Prime first game I had 1sec delay and 2nd, 3rd, 4th game i had literally zero delay.
Sad part is 90% of times I play on NA delay is 1sec+
EPT
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