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On January 10 2012 19:37 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 19:36 Thugtronik wrote:On January 10 2012 19:34 bittman wrote:
BO loss =( i don't know if i'd call this a build order loss. supernova with the brilliant mindgames this game. its still silly because theres too many early games in tvp that end with "brilliant mindgames". its just the result of smart players who understand starcraft 2 alot in an early game with buildorders that reward risky play too much in tvz and zvt you can do stuff that kinda gets you ahead abit (if its succesful) but theres not alot of stuff you can do to actually just end it
Scouting in PvT sucks (for protoss.) That really all there's to it.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37043 Posts
On January 10 2012 19:49 Lavi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 19:43 XiaoJoyce- wrote:Oh shit!!! ForGG lose 2 times to LeeNock  That wasn't what I expect...I thought he is Flash sidekick ... Did he play bad? Or close game? first game was really close at some point... good to watch. second game was bad and forgg did as i feared and go balls in with timing win or lose and got pretty much crushed...i see him play that way sometime on ladder, and i dont think he has enough exp like someone like mvp to figure out yet when things wont work yet and cut his losses yet , lack of experience against top calibur players :3
Agreed. oGs needs better zergs
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On January 10 2012 19:48 MuseMike wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 19:46 Zorgaz wrote:On January 10 2012 19:40 TheDwf wrote:On January 10 2012 19:38 WigglingSquid wrote:
Terran early game was always perplexing me about cloaking and detection, and this is a good example of my reasons. It makes for very boring BO losses against every race which needs tech to detect... every one but Terran. You know there are BO losses to Cloak Banshees even in TvT, right? Yeah....  . You know Protoss can get up a Robo with DT's around the same cost of cloaked banshees? Fact-SP-Techlab-Cloak 550 minerals 425 gas Twilight-Robo-Darkshrine 450 minerals 450 gas Yes Terran has Scan, but if you hit just after a MULE'ing.... P generally should go robo unless he is absolutely 100% no banshees can be coming That would make sense if Terran couldn't scan the base of the protoss. The Terran will not find the tech everytime, but the protoss needs an obs to see the terrans all-in. The terran just needs a well placed scan.
Which is completly luck based. A map is quite big aswell.
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On January 10 2012 19:50 nokz88 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 19:46 Zorgaz wrote:On January 10 2012 19:40 TheDwf wrote:On January 10 2012 19:38 WigglingSquid wrote:
Terran early game was always perplexing me about cloaking and detection, and this is a good example of my reasons. It makes for very boring BO losses against every race which needs tech to detect... every one but Terran. You know there are BO losses to Cloak Banshees even in TvT, right? Yeah.... . You know Protoss can get up a Robo with DT's around the same cost of cloaked banshees? Fact-SP-Techlab-Cloak 550 minerals 425 gas Twilight-Robo-Darkshrine 450 minerals 450 gas Yes Terran has Scan, but if you hit just after a MULE'ing.... P generally should go robo unless he is absolutely 100% no banshees can be coming ROFL such a fail post. You try to get the fastest DT tech with the Terran going for the fastest banshee tech, and tell me what happens
Actually, most of the DT expands / DT + prism strategies are played against scouted 1 rax FE, so it seems failure is yours.
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On January 10 2012 19:49 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 19:45 masterchip27 wrote:On January 10 2012 19:37 MorroW wrote:On January 10 2012 19:36 Thugtronik wrote:On January 10 2012 19:34 bittman wrote:
BO loss =( i don't know if i'd call this a build order loss. supernova with the brilliant mindgames this game. its still silly because theres too many early games in tvp that end with "brilliant mindgames". its just the result of smart players who understand starcraft 2 alot in an early game with buildorders that reward risky play too much in tvz and zvt you can do stuff that kinda gets you ahead abit (if its succesful) but theres not alot of stuff you can do to actually just end it its silly, but dont you think mc should be punished for taking shortcuts while scouting? ya its true but the fact is still i think zvt has the right balance of getting punished and taking risks, while in the tvp matchup the level you can coinflip at is alot higher, and the chances of it working is higher. thats why we see more risky play in tvp than tvz, simple as that
Yeah and that's why TvZ is more fun to watch and way more fun to play ^^. Hopefully TvP will get better in the future, we will have to see what patches or HOTS brings.
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Not expecting cloaked banshees from supernova is like not expecting DTs from Inca.
Every single game.
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Thats going to suck for ForGG if Leenock loses this
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On January 10 2012 19:49 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 19:45 masterchip27 wrote:On January 10 2012 19:37 MorroW wrote:On January 10 2012 19:36 Thugtronik wrote:On January 10 2012 19:34 bittman wrote:
BO loss =( i don't know if i'd call this a build order loss. supernova with the brilliant mindgames this game. its still silly because theres too many early games in tvp that end with "brilliant mindgames". its just the result of smart players who understand starcraft 2 alot in an early game with buildorders that reward risky play too much in tvz and zvt you can do stuff that kinda gets you ahead abit (if its succesful) but theres not alot of stuff you can do to actually just end it its silly, but dont you think mc should be punished for taking shortcuts while scouting? ya its true but the fact is still i think zvt has the right balance of getting punished and taking risks, while in the tvp matchup the level you can coinflip at is alot higher, and the chances of it working is higher. thats why we see more risky play in tvp than tvz, simple as that
The problem is that protoss players has to play poker in PvT until we get observers, then we can start playing starcraft if we're not allready dead.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37043 Posts
Huh.... Leenock defends like a baws
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On January 10 2012 19:51 AndAgain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 19:37 MorroW wrote:On January 10 2012 19:36 Thugtronik wrote:On January 10 2012 19:34 bittman wrote:
BO loss =( i don't know if i'd call this a build order loss. supernova with the brilliant mindgames this game. its still silly because theres too many early games in tvp that end with "brilliant mindgames". its just the result of smart players who understand starcraft 2 alot in an early game with buildorders that reward risky play too much in tvz and zvt you can do stuff that kinda gets you ahead abit (if its succesful) but theres not alot of stuff you can do to actually just end it Scouting in PvT sucks (for protoss.) That really all there's to it.
its really hard for terran too. its not like you scout a toss not going robo and then decides to do cloak banshee
its just stupid blind play from both guys trying to scout and get the best odds of what someone is doing. but at times it happens that toss thinks its 1rax expand and its actually cloak banshee or 111 lol
and a terran who actually did a 1rax here and toss goes fast nexus and plays with really late robo, even dual forge before robo then terran is pretty fucked in general
a game cant be coinflip for only 1 side
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
HELL YEAH! LEENNOCKUUU!
Apparently the games were pretty good, but its still great hopefully see ForGG's hype train stop, I've never said that he is a good as people think he is.
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can we get some sort of LRing? I don't need the imba Drazerk/Seeker/Megan LRing but something different than "OMAGAD CLOAAKED BANSHEEES OP" would be nice.
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On January 10 2012 19:50 CortoMontez wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 19:46 soulist wrote:On January 10 2012 19:40 CortoMontez wrote:On January 10 2012 19:38 Nocteo wrote:On January 10 2012 19:37 CortoMontez wrote:
How exactly can you know what a terran is doing... they are unscoutable! I heard observers do quite a good job scouting. So blind robo every game? There is a reason that so many people have thought that observers should be build from the cyber instead of robo. I dont get what the big deal is. In bw protoss had to build an observetory first before building a obsever from robotics. And in pvt in bw protoss couldnt move from its base until it had an observer to clear out spider mines. Not being able to move from your base is very different to losing the game. Also, there is a THIRD possibility from scouting the bunker at the ramp top, which is a 3-4 rax marine all in. This blindly beats any robo build.
The whine of sc2 players is really annoying. Don't you understand that if you want to take the risk you can either be rewarded or punished. Sc2 players want every build to be able to withstand any build. It will never work like that. There is a risk/reward system that works with builds and smarter better players will be able to win with this system which is how the game is supposed to be played.
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Supernova harassing like a BAWS
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Woooh SuperNova showing some excellent play here
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On January 10 2012 19:55 Koshi wrote:
can we get some sort of LRing? I don't need the imba Drazerk/Seeker/Megan LRing but something different than "OMAGAD CLOAAKED BANSHEEES OP" would be nice.
Supernova denies Leenock's third base for the second time.
Engagement near the Xel'naga tower going into supernova's favour.
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Leenock is in really bad shape this game. Supernova has amazing decisions.
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Supernova up 3bases vs 2 for Leenock now
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missed the mines
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EPT
