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Contrary to popular belief Stephano is not from the States, any mindless spam asserting otherwise after this time (19:48 KST/ 5:48 AM EST/ 10:48 GMT) will meet a moderator response. We have enough confusing spam posting in LR threads these days. Lets try to keep the love for everyone's favourite French zerg reasonable.
And as always:
- No player bashing.
- No caster bashing.
- No balance whining.
Enjoy the games. |
On December 13 2011 03:13 fourColo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 03:11 Trsjnica wrote:On December 13 2011 03:04 Olinimm wrote:On December 13 2011 03:01 Trsjnica wrote:On December 13 2011 02:53 CosmicSpiral wrote:On December 13 2011 02:48 power-overwhelming wrote:On December 13 2011 02:41 Forikorder wrote:
players who got "figured out"
MC
Fruitdealer
Rain
BitByBit
MKP
Rainbow
all those players were spectacular, all got figured out, all dropped off the face of the eart to varying degrees
MKP tore through GSL season 2 then quickly dropped
Rainbow and fruitdealer looked amazing during season one then they quickly droppped
people were calling MC the best palyer ever when he won his second title now hes more joked about then revered and known as a very unstable player who somethimes gives some good results
there are tons of players if you look for them who look amazing the first time we see them then there nothing, like the 1/1/1 build and the slayers hellion push everyone said they were unstoppable when we first saw them now there nothing special How exactly did MC get figured out? His timings? All timings get figured out. It is more like Protoss got figured out. Before, no one knew how imbalance the game was and how shit the race was. MC simply won with a disadvantage twice. Right now Protoss still lacks a lot of things to be as complete as Terran or Zerg. Really? MC was always an anomaly in the Korean scene. Protoss never had a strong foothold in the GSL. some serious revisionist history here. The first 3 GSL's of 2011 has 9 or 10 Protoss--more than or equal to Zerg. GSL March, 3 of the final 4 (and the winner) were Protoss. Protoss never had as many people in GSL as Terran, but it was still doing well. Doing well? No. Yes March was the one good month but only 2 Protoss players have ever even made it to the finals, and it's been nearly half a year since then, and Protoss was on a downward plummet ever since. Things are looking better with the new format though. ... You said "Protoss never had a strong foothold in the GSL." They had 9 or 10 people in each of GSL's January, March, May, and July. In those 4 GSL's, of the 16 semifinalists, 5 were Protoss. This is the closest to 1/3rd you can get. (Zerg had 5, Terran had 6.) That sounds like a "strong foothold" to me. It wasn't Protoss dominance or anything, but they were basically average or slightly better than Zerg, and a bit behind Terran. Protoss doesn't win though. See: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GOMTV_Global_Starcraft_II_LeagueUsing advanced mathematical techniques such as "counting", protoss has had poor representation.
That isn't what he actually said, nor is it what we were discussing.
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On December 13 2011 03:18 zmansman17 wrote:
No, you are actually completely wrong. Like I said, the same could be said of any race, including Protoss in terms of game design. As a GM mmr player (beating sixjaxvibe, and 3 other gms yesterday), I could easily make the statement that Protoss game design is flawed. But I'm not going to do that, because this is neither the time or place.
That's nice and dandy. But I was under the impression that when you claim something you back it up with something relevant. If you didn't comprehend the context of my statement then don't bothering throwing the whine card. If you're so strict on relevance then the "as a gm mmr player (beating sixjaxvie)" part seems pretty irrelevant to this thread is it not?
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I've pretty much lost all faith in these mini-tournaments. Arena of legends and team ace invitational had awful games as well. The games are so close together, and bigger Bo1 group stages just makes for glorified ladder games since they can't spend time to properly prepare for each game.
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Sad that every single time a foreigner plays we have to get a banner due to all the crap posts.
On December 13 2011 03:29 Tachion wrote:
I've pretty much lost all faith in these mini-tournaments. Arena of legends and team ace invitational had awful games as well. The games are so close together, and bigger Bo1 group stages just makes for glorified ladder games since they can't spend time to properly prepare for each game.
How do they not have time to prepare? They know their opponent and Map with tons of time to prepare.
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On December 13 2011 03:09 power-overwhelming wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 03:04 Forikorder wrote:
and what does that have to do at all with MC choosing from the second the map started to do a terrible all-in that anyone could tell wouldnt work against someone as good as MVP?
Because Bel Shir makes it impossible to have a third in PvT (see HerO vs PuMa). I don't blame MC for risking a 1 base all in in that situation. The point of this argument between us is that you claimed MC only all ins and is terrible at macro game. I already proved to you that he wins macro games against one of the best TvPers in Bomber. Esp in BO1 all ins are rather common. Did you not see MVP vs HerO in this group? If you're going to accuse someone of being an all-in player just because he all-ins just as much as top koreans do then call MVP an all inner. He all-inned vs MC their first game at MLG providence. Call Leenock an all inner. Point is double standard. If you call one something and not call the other (who's doing the same thing) then theres something wrong. But then again, double standard doesn't exist in fanboy realm.
so your saying hes like IdrA then if he thinks he has even a slight disadvantage on a map he just gives up?
what a champion
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On December 13 2011 03:32 windsupernova wrote:Sad that every single time a foreigner plays we have to get a banner due to all the crap posts. Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 03:29 Tachion wrote:
I've pretty much lost all faith in these mini-tournaments. Arena of legends and team ace invitational had awful games as well. The games are so close together, and bigger Bo1 group stages just makes for glorified ladder games since they can't spend time to properly prepare for each game. How do they not have time to prepare? They know their opponent and Map with tons of time to prepare.
Polt was just introduced to the tourny like 2 days ago? MMA a week? How long have the brackets/maps been finalized for? And they only get 1-2 days in-between to prepare for the next round.
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On December 13 2011 03:32 windsupernova wrote:Sad that every single time a foreigner plays we have to get a banner due to all the crap posts. Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 03:29 Tachion wrote:
I've pretty much lost all faith in these mini-tournaments. Arena of legends and team ace invitational had awful games as well. The games are so close together, and bigger Bo1 group stages just makes for glorified ladder games since they can't spend time to properly prepare for each game. How do they not have time to prepare? They know their opponent and Map with tons of time to prepare.
I think we get a banner on every popular event, period. Not sure if that's better though. 
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On December 13 2011 03:35 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 03:32 windsupernova wrote:Sad that every single time a foreigner plays we have to get a banner due to all the crap posts. On December 13 2011 03:29 Tachion wrote:
I've pretty much lost all faith in these mini-tournaments. Arena of legends and team ace invitational had awful games as well. The games are so close together, and bigger Bo1 group stages just makes for glorified ladder games since they can't spend time to properly prepare for each game. How do they not have time to prepare? They know their opponent and Map with tons of time to prepare. Polt was just introduced to the tourny like 2 days ago? MMA a week? How long have the brackets/maps been finalized for? And they only get 1-2 days in-between to prepare for the next round.
Just curious, but do you also not watch MLG/NASL/IEM/Dreamhack?
Those weekend tournaments all give very little time to prepare. This is somewhere in between.
All of them produce awesome games, but of slightly different types--the shorter the time period, the fewer awesome snipe/etc builds we see. But they're all full of good games.
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On December 13 2011 03:37 Trsjnica wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 03:35 Tachion wrote:On December 13 2011 03:32 windsupernova wrote:Sad that every single time a foreigner plays we have to get a banner due to all the crap posts. On December 13 2011 03:29 Tachion wrote:
I've pretty much lost all faith in these mini-tournaments. Arena of legends and team ace invitational had awful games as well. The games are so close together, and bigger Bo1 group stages just makes for glorified ladder games since they can't spend time to properly prepare for each game. How do they not have time to prepare? They know their opponent and Map with tons of time to prepare. Polt was just introduced to the tourny like 2 days ago? MMA a week? How long have the brackets/maps been finalized for? And they only get 1-2 days in-between to prepare for the next round. Just curious, but do you also not watch MLG/NASL/IEM/Dreamhack? Those weekend tournaments all give very little time to prepare. This is somewhere in between. All of them produce awesome games, but of slightly different types--the shorter the time period, the fewer awesome snipe/etc builds we see. But they're all full of good games.
These are the best players in the entire world. That's the whole point of the tournament, and the games don't reflect it. MLG/NASL/IEM/Dreamhack are all far sub-par compared to the games you get from the GSL when players have over a week to prepare to a BoX series against one another.
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Its funny to see everyone´s opinion on this forum , and seeing who are the favorites!
Too much hype for a player ( except MVP off course ) = losing fast and furious ( see leenock , huk , mkp , mma , nestea and so on )
Just look at Lebron James and the miami heat....
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On December 13 2011 03:36 Trsjnica wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 03:32 windsupernova wrote:Sad that every single time a foreigner plays we have to get a banner due to all the crap posts. On December 13 2011 03:29 Tachion wrote:
I've pretty much lost all faith in these mini-tournaments. Arena of legends and team ace invitational had awful games as well. The games are so close together, and bigger Bo1 group stages just makes for glorified ladder games since they can't spend time to properly prepare for each game. How do they not have time to prepare? They know their opponent and Map with tons of time to prepare. I think we get a banner on every popular event, period. Not sure if that's better though.
GSL LR threads have been much more civil actually hahahaha but you are right XD
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On December 13 2011 03:51 tapk69 wrote:
Its funny to see everyone´s opinion on this forum , and seeing who are the favorites!
Too much hype for a player ( except MVP off course ) = losing fast and furious ( see leenock , huk , mkp , mma , nestea and so on )
Just look at Lebron James and the miami heat....
Didn't Lebron James and the Miami Heat make it to the Finals after all the hype?
I think hyping is okay, but just not when it totally gets out of hand.
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No LR's? Aw 
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Not sure what the complaints are about the games, no one can guarantee that when you get the best players in the world together, that it will result in the best games. The same is true for the GSL (almost always one-sided finals) and really any sport ever. On any given day, the underdog can win, or one person will annihilate the other in what is supposed to be an even match.
I thought the games were pretty good, except for most of HerO's games [] and MC's first game, which was a very poorly thought out cheese. Had a long mech zvt on Tal'darim, an intense short ZvZ, a close hold in ZvP that went into a close macro game, and an epic PvZ on Crossfire.
While I disagree with the Bo1 format, can't really argue with the quality of some of the games.
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
On December 13 2011 03:41 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 03:37 Trsjnica wrote:On December 13 2011 03:35 Tachion wrote:On December 13 2011 03:32 windsupernova wrote:Sad that every single time a foreigner plays we have to get a banner due to all the crap posts. On December 13 2011 03:29 Tachion wrote:
I've pretty much lost all faith in these mini-tournaments. Arena of legends and team ace invitational had awful games as well. The games are so close together, and bigger Bo1 group stages just makes for glorified ladder games since they can't spend time to properly prepare for each game. How do they not have time to prepare? They know their opponent and Map with tons of time to prepare. Polt was just introduced to the tourny like 2 days ago? MMA a week? How long have the brackets/maps been finalized for? And they only get 1-2 days in-between to prepare for the next round. Just curious, but do you also not watch MLG/NASL/IEM/Dreamhack? Those weekend tournaments all give very little time to prepare. This is somewhere in between. All of them produce awesome games, but of slightly different types--the shorter the time period, the fewer awesome snipe/etc builds we see. But they're all full of good games. These are the best players in the entire world. That's the whole point of the tournament, and the games don't reflect it. MLG/NASL/IEM/Dreamhack are all far sub-par compared to the games you get from the GSL when players have over a week to prepare to a BoX series against one another.
I've seen great ladder games and bad ladder games
I've seen great GSL matches and not so great (like the MVP vs Nestea in GSL August)
I've seen more bad GSL finals than good ones
I've heard people stating that when people have long times to prepare for games, it makes for uninteresting games (their debate on whey GSL finals are usually bad). I've also heard people counter argument that with TSL finals.
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On December 13 2011 04:08 illsick wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 03:41 Tachion wrote:On December 13 2011 03:37 Trsjnica wrote:On December 13 2011 03:35 Tachion wrote:On December 13 2011 03:32 windsupernova wrote:Sad that every single time a foreigner plays we have to get a banner due to all the crap posts. On December 13 2011 03:29 Tachion wrote:
I've pretty much lost all faith in these mini-tournaments. Arena of legends and team ace invitational had awful games as well. The games are so close together, and bigger Bo1 group stages just makes for glorified ladder games since they can't spend time to properly prepare for each game. How do they not have time to prepare? They know their opponent and Map with tons of time to prepare. Polt was just introduced to the tourny like 2 days ago? MMA a week? How long have the brackets/maps been finalized for? And they only get 1-2 days in-between to prepare for the next round. Just curious, but do you also not watch MLG/NASL/IEM/Dreamhack? Those weekend tournaments all give very little time to prepare. This is somewhere in between. All of them produce awesome games, but of slightly different types--the shorter the time period, the fewer awesome snipe/etc builds we see. But they're all full of good games. These are the best players in the entire world. That's the whole point of the tournament, and the games don't reflect it. MLG/NASL/IEM/Dreamhack are all far sub-par compared to the games you get from the GSL when players have over a week to prepare to a BoX series against one another. I've seen great ladder games and bad ladder games I've seen great GSL matches and not so great (like the MVP vs Nestea in GSL August) I've seen more bad GSL finals than good ones I've heard people stating that when people have long times to prepare for games, it makes for uninteresting games (their debate on whey GSL finals are usually bad). I've also heard people counter argument that with TSL finals.
the GSL finals are always terrible cause whoever gets to the finals had already taken out his competition
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On December 13 2011 03:04 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 03:02 power-overwhelming wrote:On December 13 2011 02:56 Forikorder wrote:
MC does it becuase hes terrible and cant win macro games
MVP didnt do anything stupid enough that would get killed by MCs 4gate blink stalker push yet MC was planning to do it from the probe split Wait... I know you must be a troll or just deprived of logic, but I'll bit. MC just beaten Bomber in a macro game. Out of every korean progamer, MC has been all-inned the most, especially by Terrans. When you're hating on someone at least have something to back it up. For instance, MVP starts out his interviews with excuses such as "bad condition, jet lagged, lack of sleep etc". MC draws the worst maps and still advances and you don't see his interview full of map qq. and what does that have to do at all with MC choosing from the second the map started to do a terrible all-in that anyone could tell wouldnt work against someone as good as MVP?
I remember not long ago Mc 6 gate all-in Mvp and mvp could not stop it even with 5 bunkers.
In fact, Mc did show he can outplay Mvp in a macro game. Mvp is the one does not want to play macro game against Mc.
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On December 13 2011 04:18 double620 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 03:04 Forikorder wrote:On December 13 2011 03:02 power-overwhelming wrote:On December 13 2011 02:56 Forikorder wrote:
MC does it becuase hes terrible and cant win macro games
MVP didnt do anything stupid enough that would get killed by MCs 4gate blink stalker push yet MC was planning to do it from the probe split Wait... I know you must be a troll or just deprived of logic, but I'll bit. MC just beaten Bomber in a macro game. Out of every korean progamer, MC has been all-inned the most, especially by Terrans. When you're hating on someone at least have something to back it up. For instance, MVP starts out his interviews with excuses such as "bad condition, jet lagged, lack of sleep etc". MC draws the worst maps and still advances and you don't see his interview full of map qq. and what does that have to do at all with MC choosing from the second the map started to do a terrible all-in that anyone could tell wouldnt work against someone as good as MVP? I remember not long ago Mc 6 gate all-in Mvp and mvp could not stop it even with 5 bunkers. In fact, Mc did show he can outplay Mvp in a macro game. Mvp is the one does not want to play macro game against Mc.
yet MC does a terrible 4 gate all-in....
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I was cheering for Stephano and was hoping that he would've qualified for the next round (but I'm not a fanboy though). When he played that critical set against MC, I was a bit shocked when Khaldor mentioned on stream that Stephano was going to do some kind of all-in. Shocked in the sense that Dual Sight is a good map for Zerg against Protoss. I know people are going to defend his decision based on the wide-open natural, but I rather think that since he's confident in the ZvP, he shouldn've gone for a regular game. I think that someone from his team should've sat down with him and discussed the strategy for each map.
Even then, I thought he could've held the 2-base timing from MC. MC's initial attack was deflected but Stephano had the red-mists in front of his eyes and decided to engage with his roach army in the middle of the map - which cost him his army. After that, MC was able to score the win with a push. Stephano had a 3-base-to-2 advantage and should've just defended instead.
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EPT
