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Contrary to popular belief Stephano is not from the States, any mindless spam asserting otherwise after this time (19:48 KST/ 5:48 AM EST/ 10:48 GMT) will meet a moderator response. We have enough confusing spam posting in LR threads these days. Lets try to keep the love for everyone's favourite French zerg reasonable.
And as always:
- No player bashing.
- No caster bashing.
- No balance whining.
Enjoy the games. |
Does anyone else have a good feeling about Polt tomorrow? I think he will surprise a lot of people. It's always these guys that qualify at the last second by some miracle of fortune that end up making it very far (like Denmark in Euro 1992). Having MMA, his punching bag, in the group, is an added bonus.
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On December 13 2011 02:59 King.Crimson wrote:
Does anyone else have a good feeling about Polt tomorrow? I think he will surprise a lot of people. It's always these guys that qualify at the last second by some miracle of fortune that end up making it very far (like Denmark in Euro 1992). Having MMA, his punching bag, in the group, is an added bonus.
It wouldn't surprise me given how many people are underestimating him. The only player who is taking polt serious is MMA XD
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On December 13 2011 02:53 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 02:48 power-overwhelming wrote:On December 13 2011 02:41 Forikorder wrote:
players who got "figured out"
MC
Fruitdealer
Rain
BitByBit
MKP
Rainbow
all those players were spectacular, all got figured out, all dropped off the face of the eart to varying degrees
MKP tore through GSL season 2 then quickly dropped
Rainbow and fruitdealer looked amazing during season one then they quickly droppped
people were calling MC the best palyer ever when he won his second title now hes more joked about then revered and known as a very unstable player who somethimes gives some good results
there are tons of players if you look for them who look amazing the first time we see them then there nothing, like the 1/1/1 build and the slayers hellion push everyone said they were unstoppable when we first saw them now there nothing special How exactly did MC get figured out? His timings? All timings get figured out. It is more like Protoss got figured out. Before, no one knew how imbalance the game was and how shit the race was. MC simply won with a disadvantage twice. Right now Protoss still lacks a lot of things to be as complete as Terran or Zerg. Really? MC was always an anomaly in the Korean scene. Protoss never had a strong foothold in the GSL.
some serious revisionist history here.
The first 3 GSL's of 2011 has 9 or 10 Protoss--more than or equal to Zerg.
GSL March, 3 of the final 4 (and the winner) were Protoss.
Protoss never had as many people in GSL as Terran, but it was still doing well.
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On December 13 2011 02:56 Forikorder wrote:
MC does it becuase hes terrible and cant win macro games
MVP didnt do anything stupid enough that would get killed by MCs 4gate blink stalker push yet MC was planning to do it from the probe split
Wait... I know you must be a troll or just deprived of logic, but I'll bit.
MC just beaten Bomber in a macro game. Out of every korean progamer, MC has been all-inned the most, especially by Terrans.
When you're hating on someone at least have something to back it up. For instance, MVP starts out his interviews with excuses such as "bad condition, jet lagged, lack of sleep etc". MC draws the worst maps and still advances and you don't see his interview full of map qq.
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On December 13 2011 03:02 power-overwhelming wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 02:56 Forikorder wrote:
MC does it becuase hes terrible and cant win macro games
MVP didnt do anything stupid enough that would get killed by MCs 4gate blink stalker push yet MC was planning to do it from the probe split Wait... I know you must be a troll or just deprived of logic, but I'll bit. MC just beaten Bomber in a macro game. Out of every korean progamer, MC has been all-inned the most, especially by Terrans. When you're hating on someone at least have something to back it up. For instance, MVP starts out his interviews with excuses such as "bad condition, jet lagged, lack of sleep etc". MC draws the worst maps and still advances and you don't see his interview full of map qq.
and what does that have to do at all with MC choosing from the second the map started to do a terrible all-in that anyone could tell wouldnt work against someone as good as MVP?
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On December 13 2011 03:01 Trsjnica wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 02:53 CosmicSpiral wrote:On December 13 2011 02:48 power-overwhelming wrote:On December 13 2011 02:41 Forikorder wrote:
players who got "figured out"
MC
Fruitdealer
Rain
BitByBit
MKP
Rainbow
all those players were spectacular, all got figured out, all dropped off the face of the eart to varying degrees
MKP tore through GSL season 2 then quickly dropped
Rainbow and fruitdealer looked amazing during season one then they quickly droppped
people were calling MC the best palyer ever when he won his second title now hes more joked about then revered and known as a very unstable player who somethimes gives some good results
there are tons of players if you look for them who look amazing the first time we see them then there nothing, like the 1/1/1 build and the slayers hellion push everyone said they were unstoppable when we first saw them now there nothing special How exactly did MC get figured out? His timings? All timings get figured out. It is more like Protoss got figured out. Before, no one knew how imbalance the game was and how shit the race was. MC simply won with a disadvantage twice. Right now Protoss still lacks a lot of things to be as complete as Terran or Zerg. Really? MC was always an anomaly in the Korean scene. Protoss never had a strong foothold in the GSL. some serious revisionist history here. The first 3 GSL's of 2011 has 9 or 10 Protoss--more than or equal to Zerg. GSL March, 3 of the final 4 (and the winner) were Protoss. Protoss never had as many people in GSL as Terran, but it was still doing well.
Doing well? No. Yes March was the one good month but only 2 Protoss players have ever even made it to the finals, and it's been nearly half a year since then, and Protoss was on a downward plummet ever since. Things are looking better with the new format though.
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After MC won his second GSL, he started playing pure macro every game. Do people not remember MLG columbus, GSTL and all of that? Remember his expand into stargate play vs Z? He used to do that every game, to the extent he would let his opponent scout it, because he knew he could play from a macro disadvantage because he was sooo superior to his opponent. Who remembers MC vs Puma in NASL? Every game was a macro game, he developed early phoenix play, which seemed amazing until Puma made ghosts. Does no one remember his drop defence, multitask, macro?
He stopped all inning and became too predictable. Now, he mixes it up. His old confidence is gone, so his unit control slips from time to time, but to say he is 'figured out' is ignorant and retarded.
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These were EPIC games and Stephano is a true beast
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On December 13 2011 02:56 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 02:48 power-overwhelming wrote:On December 13 2011 02:41 Forikorder wrote:
players who got "figured out"
MC
Fruitdealer
Rain
BitByBit
MKP
Rainbow
all those players were spectacular, all got figured out, all dropped off the face of the eart to varying degrees
MKP tore through GSL season 2 then quickly dropped
Rainbow and fruitdealer looked amazing during season one then they quickly droppped
people were calling MC the best palyer ever when he won his second title now hes more joked about then revered and known as a very unstable player who somethimes gives some good results
there are tons of players if you look for them who look amazing the first time we see them then there nothing, like the 1/1/1 build and the slayers hellion push everyone said they were unstoppable when we first saw them now there nothing special How exactly did MC get figured out? His timings? All timings get figured out. It is more like Protoss got figured out. Before, no one knew how imbalance the game was and how shit the race was. MC simply won with a disadvantage twice. Right now Protoss still lacks a lot of things to be as complete as Terran or Zerg. I thought the "OMG Protoss UP! Sad Zealot" posts were over after recent tournament results.. Guess not...
has nothing to do with balance, from a design standpoint both zerg and protoss simply lack the flexibility that terran has
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Stephano has PROVEN himself to be the SC2 banjo upvote if you agree!
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On December 13 2011 03:06 Sackings wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 02:56 sitromit wrote:On December 13 2011 02:48 power-overwhelming wrote:On December 13 2011 02:41 Forikorder wrote:
players who got "figured out"
MC
Fruitdealer
Rain
BitByBit
MKP
Rainbow
all those players were spectacular, all got figured out, all dropped off the face of the eart to varying degrees
MKP tore through GSL season 2 then quickly dropped
Rainbow and fruitdealer looked amazing during season one then they quickly droppped
people were calling MC the best palyer ever when he won his second title now hes more joked about then revered and known as a very unstable player who somethimes gives some good results
there are tons of players if you look for them who look amazing the first time we see them then there nothing, like the 1/1/1 build and the slayers hellion push everyone said they were unstoppable when we first saw them now there nothing special How exactly did MC get figured out? His timings? All timings get figured out. It is more like Protoss got figured out. Before, no one knew how imbalance the game was and how shit the race was. MC simply won with a disadvantage twice. Right now Protoss still lacks a lot of things to be as complete as Terran or Zerg. I thought the "OMG Protoss UP! Sad Zealot" posts were over after recent tournament results.. Guess not... has nothing to do with balance, from a design standpoint both zerg and protoss simply lack the flexibility that terran has
This sounds like whining to me. The same could be said of any race, so don't even bring that here. Enjoy the games....
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No!! When I went to bed Stephano was 2-0. So close to making it out of this group..
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On December 13 2011 03:07 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 03:06 Sackings wrote:On December 13 2011 02:56 sitromit wrote:On December 13 2011 02:48 power-overwhelming wrote:On December 13 2011 02:41 Forikorder wrote:
players who got "figured out"
MC
Fruitdealer
Rain
BitByBit
MKP
Rainbow
all those players were spectacular, all got figured out, all dropped off the face of the eart to varying degrees
MKP tore through GSL season 2 then quickly dropped
Rainbow and fruitdealer looked amazing during season one then they quickly droppped
people were calling MC the best palyer ever when he won his second title now hes more joked about then revered and known as a very unstable player who somethimes gives some good results
there are tons of players if you look for them who look amazing the first time we see them then there nothing, like the 1/1/1 build and the slayers hellion push everyone said they were unstoppable when we first saw them now there nothing special How exactly did MC get figured out? His timings? All timings get figured out. It is more like Protoss got figured out. Before, no one knew how imbalance the game was and how shit the race was. MC simply won with a disadvantage twice. Right now Protoss still lacks a lot of things to be as complete as Terran or Zerg. I thought the "OMG Protoss UP! Sad Zealot" posts were over after recent tournament results.. Guess not... has nothing to do with balance, from a design standpoint both zerg and protoss simply lack the flexibility that terran has This sounds like whining to me. The same could be said of any race, so don't even bring that here. Enjoy the games....
It might sound like whine, but beyond the veil of bias is truth.
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On December 13 2011 03:04 Forikorder wrote:
and what does that have to do at all with MC choosing from the second the map started to do a terrible all-in that anyone could tell wouldnt work against someone as good as MVP?
Because Bel Shir makes it impossible to have a third in PvT (see HerO vs PuMa). I don't blame MC for risking a 1 base all in in that situation.
The point of this argument between us is that you claimed MC only all ins and is terrible at macro game. I already proved to you that he wins macro games against one of the best TvPers in Bomber.
Esp in BO1 all ins are rather common. Did you not see MVP vs HerO in this group? If you're going to accuse someone of being an all-in player just because he all-ins just as much as top koreans do then call MVP an all inner. He all-inned vs MC their first game at MLG providence. Call Leenock an all inner. Point is double standard.
If you call one something and not call the other (who's doing the same thing) then theres something wrong. But then again, double standard doesn't exist in fanboy realm.
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On December 13 2011 03:04 Olinimm wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 03:01 Trsjnica wrote:On December 13 2011 02:53 CosmicSpiral wrote:On December 13 2011 02:48 power-overwhelming wrote:On December 13 2011 02:41 Forikorder wrote:
players who got "figured out"
MC
Fruitdealer
Rain
BitByBit
MKP
Rainbow
all those players were spectacular, all got figured out, all dropped off the face of the eart to varying degrees
MKP tore through GSL season 2 then quickly dropped
Rainbow and fruitdealer looked amazing during season one then they quickly droppped
people were calling MC the best palyer ever when he won his second title now hes more joked about then revered and known as a very unstable player who somethimes gives some good results
there are tons of players if you look for them who look amazing the first time we see them then there nothing, like the 1/1/1 build and the slayers hellion push everyone said they were unstoppable when we first saw them now there nothing special How exactly did MC get figured out? His timings? All timings get figured out. It is more like Protoss got figured out. Before, no one knew how imbalance the game was and how shit the race was. MC simply won with a disadvantage twice. Right now Protoss still lacks a lot of things to be as complete as Terran or Zerg. Really? MC was always an anomaly in the Korean scene. Protoss never had a strong foothold in the GSL. some serious revisionist history here. The first 3 GSL's of 2011 has 9 or 10 Protoss--more than or equal to Zerg. GSL March, 3 of the final 4 (and the winner) were Protoss. Protoss never had as many people in GSL as Terran, but it was still doing well. Doing well? No. Yes March was the one good month but only 2 Protoss players have ever even made it to the finals, and it's been nearly half a year since then, and Protoss was on a downward plummet ever since. Things are looking better with the new format though.
... You said "Protoss never had a strong foothold in the GSL."
They had 9 or 10 people in each of GSL's January, March, May, and July. In those 4 GSL's, of the 16 semifinalists, 5 were Protoss. This is the closest to 1/3rd you can get. (Zerg had 5, Terran had 6.)
That sounds like a "strong foothold" to me. It wasn't Protoss dominance or anything, but they were basically average or slightly better than Zerg, and a bit behind Terran.
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How is zerg not flexible? They're by far the easiest to tech switch not having tech buildings. You rarely see a protoss build late game voids when they already have HTs, or a terran switch from mech to bio (lol). But zerg switching from brood to ultra is almost standard.
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On December 13 2011 03:07 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 03:06 Sackings wrote:On December 13 2011 02:56 sitromit wrote:On December 13 2011 02:48 power-overwhelming wrote:On December 13 2011 02:41 Forikorder wrote:
players who got "figured out"
MC
Fruitdealer
Rain
BitByBit
MKP
Rainbow
all those players were spectacular, all got figured out, all dropped off the face of the eart to varying degrees
MKP tore through GSL season 2 then quickly dropped
Rainbow and fruitdealer looked amazing during season one then they quickly droppped
people were calling MC the best palyer ever when he won his second title now hes more joked about then revered and known as a very unstable player who somethimes gives some good results
there are tons of players if you look for them who look amazing the first time we see them then there nothing, like the 1/1/1 build and the slayers hellion push everyone said they were unstoppable when we first saw them now there nothing special How exactly did MC get figured out? His timings? All timings get figured out. It is more like Protoss got figured out. Before, no one knew how imbalance the game was and how shit the race was. MC simply won with a disadvantage twice. Right now Protoss still lacks a lot of things to be as complete as Terran or Zerg. I thought the "OMG Protoss UP! Sad Zealot" posts were over after recent tournament results.. Guess not... has nothing to do with balance, from a design standpoint both zerg and protoss simply lack the flexibility that terran has This sounds like whining to me. The same could be said of any race, so don't even bring that here. Enjoy the games....
Well, considering that Blizzard has said so in numerous interviews and mentions that they want to fix this in HotS and LotV, it really doesn't count as whining.
On December 13 2011 03:04 Forikorder wrote:
and what does that have to do at all with MC choosing from the second the map started to do a terrible all-in that anyone could tell wouldnt work against someone as good as MVP?
PvT on Bel'Shir is horrible. If that well-timed scout be MVP had not got into MC's base, MC had a good chance of winning convincingly.
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On December 13 2011 03:11 Trsjnica wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 03:04 Olinimm wrote:On December 13 2011 03:01 Trsjnica wrote:On December 13 2011 02:53 CosmicSpiral wrote:On December 13 2011 02:48 power-overwhelming wrote:On December 13 2011 02:41 Forikorder wrote:
players who got "figured out"
MC
Fruitdealer
Rain
BitByBit
MKP
Rainbow
all those players were spectacular, all got figured out, all dropped off the face of the eart to varying degrees
MKP tore through GSL season 2 then quickly dropped
Rainbow and fruitdealer looked amazing during season one then they quickly droppped
people were calling MC the best palyer ever when he won his second title now hes more joked about then revered and known as a very unstable player who somethimes gives some good results
there are tons of players if you look for them who look amazing the first time we see them then there nothing, like the 1/1/1 build and the slayers hellion push everyone said they were unstoppable when we first saw them now there nothing special How exactly did MC get figured out? His timings? All timings get figured out. It is more like Protoss got figured out. Before, no one knew how imbalance the game was and how shit the race was. MC simply won with a disadvantage twice. Right now Protoss still lacks a lot of things to be as complete as Terran or Zerg. Really? MC was always an anomaly in the Korean scene. Protoss never had a strong foothold in the GSL. some serious revisionist history here. The first 3 GSL's of 2011 has 9 or 10 Protoss--more than or equal to Zerg. GSL March, 3 of the final 4 (and the winner) were Protoss. Protoss never had as many people in GSL as Terran, but it was still doing well. Doing well? No. Yes March was the one good month but only 2 Protoss players have ever even made it to the finals, and it's been nearly half a year since then, and Protoss was on a downward plummet ever since. Things are looking better with the new format though. ... You said "Protoss never had a strong foothold in the GSL." They had 9 or 10 people in each of GSL's January, March, May, and July. In those 4 GSL's, of the 16 semifinalists, 5 were Protoss. This is the closest to 1/3rd you can get. (Zerg had 5, Terran had 6.) That sounds like a "strong foothold" to me. It wasn't Protoss dominance or anything, but they were basically average or slightly better than Zerg, and a bit behind Terran.
Protoss doesn't win though. See: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GOMTV_Global_Starcraft_II_League
Using advanced mathematical techniques such as "counting", protoss has had poor representation.
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On December 13 2011 03:08 Dauntless wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 03:07 zmansman17 wrote:On December 13 2011 03:06 Sackings wrote:On December 13 2011 02:56 sitromit wrote:On December 13 2011 02:48 power-overwhelming wrote:On December 13 2011 02:41 Forikorder wrote:
players who got "figured out"
MC
Fruitdealer
Rain
BitByBit
MKP
Rainbow
all those players were spectacular, all got figured out, all dropped off the face of the eart to varying degrees
MKP tore through GSL season 2 then quickly dropped
Rainbow and fruitdealer looked amazing during season one then they quickly droppped
people were calling MC the best palyer ever when he won his second title now hes more joked about then revered and known as a very unstable player who somethimes gives some good results
there are tons of players if you look for them who look amazing the first time we see them then there nothing, like the 1/1/1 build and the slayers hellion push everyone said they were unstoppable when we first saw them now there nothing special How exactly did MC get figured out? His timings? All timings get figured out. It is more like Protoss got figured out. Before, no one knew how imbalance the game was and how shit the race was. MC simply won with a disadvantage twice. Right now Protoss still lacks a lot of things to be as complete as Terran or Zerg. I thought the "OMG Protoss UP! Sad Zealot" posts were over after recent tournament results.. Guess not... has nothing to do with balance, from a design standpoint both zerg and protoss simply lack the flexibility that terran has This sounds like whining to me. The same could be said of any race, so don't even bring that here. Enjoy the games.... It might sound like whine, but beyond the veil of bias is truth.
No, you are actually completely wrong. Like I said, the same could be said of any race, including Protoss in terms of game design. As a GM mmr player (beating sixjaxvibe, and 3 other gms yesterday), I could easily make the statement that Protoss game design is flawed. But I'm not going to do that, because this is neither the time or place.
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On December 13 2011 02:48 Talack wrote:Show nested quote +players who got "figured out"
MC
Fruitdealer
Rain
BitByBit
MKP
Rainbow
all those players were spectacular, all got figured out, all dropped off the face of the eart to varying degrees
MKP tore through GSL season 2 then quickly dropped
Rainbow and fruitdealer looked amazing during season one then they quickly droppped
people were calling MC the best palyer ever when he won his second title now hes more joked about then revered and known as a very unstable player who somethimes gives some good results
there are tons of players if you look for them who look amazing the first time we see them then there nothing, like the 1/1/1 build and the slayers hellion push everyone said they were unstoppable when we first saw them now there nothing special MC - Was/still is a one trick pony honestly. He's branched out a bit, but survive his all-in and you've won. Fruitdealer - Never was good imo, rainbow was just horrible. They were just two players who practiced a little more than the others at the begining of SC2 when nobody was good at anything and got lucky. Rain - Yeah...lol Not really figured out but just never was good. I think the community backlash hurt him alot and lowered his confidence too much BitbyBit - Nothing to say really. More success from people not being that good during his run. Players are alot better vs scv rushes now. MKP - Placed in the finals twice in a row, still takes games off top-players all the time (with exception to MVP) and is still a contender for a code-s Finals IMO. Rainbow - was never good, will never be good IMO. See fruitdealer.
you arguments about rainbow and fruitdealer are flawed. you can say the same thing about mvp, nestea, leenock and so on. in two years from now the play that they are showing today will be bad. so i guess they are horrible too^^
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EPT
