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Contrary to popular belief Stephano is not from the States, any mindless spam asserting otherwise after this time (19:48 KST/ 5:48 AM EST/ 10:48 GMT) will meet a moderator response. We have enough confusing spam posting in LR threads these days. Lets try to keep the love for everyone's favourite French zerg reasonable.
And as always:
- No player bashing.
- No caster bashing.
- No balance whining.
Enjoy the games. |
On December 13 2011 04:48 Forikorder wrote:
im not wining i dont care if MC continues to all-in or not in fact id prefer it becuase i dont like him and id prefer he gets stuck in medicraty till he retires
and if he was as good as you say he is, then how come he hasnt won a single event in months? his last win was his last GSL win when his all-ins could still be considered effective, ever since he hasnt won anything even the foreigner tournaments
I'm not going to respond to the content of your post, because it's the same rubbish people have been spouting since March, but PLEASE work on your spelling and grammar. I know it's entirely possible that you aren't a native English speaker, but that isn't much consolation when I'm trying to trawl through your post.
On December 13 2011 04:49 Olinimm wrote:
It's certainly possible that maybe due to his experiences in the teamhouse and the ladder he wasn't confident in a macro game against MC. Especially since MC said in his interview he's alot more confident in PvZ, maybe it really was his best shot.
Did he say that? The last interview of his I read said that he still wasn't confident, but had come up with some new timings to get by until he figured out the matchup a bit better.
As an aside, I'd like to point out that DRG now has REALLY scary ZvP. He used to be the one-dimensional ZvT player, but now he's just beastly in every matchup.
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On December 13 2011 04:32 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 04:31 double620 wrote:On December 13 2011 04:29 Forikorder wrote:On December 13 2011 04:27 mordk wrote:On December 13 2011 04:20 Forikorder wrote:On December 13 2011 04:18 double620 wrote:On December 13 2011 03:04 Forikorder wrote:On December 13 2011 03:02 power-overwhelming wrote:On December 13 2011 02:56 Forikorder wrote:
MC does it becuase hes terrible and cant win macro games
MVP didnt do anything stupid enough that would get killed by MCs 4gate blink stalker push yet MC was planning to do it from the probe split Wait... I know you must be a troll or just deprived of logic, but I'll bit. MC just beaten Bomber in a macro game. Out of every korean progamer, MC has been all-inned the most, especially by Terrans. When you're hating on someone at least have something to back it up. For instance, MVP starts out his interviews with excuses such as "bad condition, jet lagged, lack of sleep etc". MC draws the worst maps and still advances and you don't see his interview full of map qq. and what does that have to do at all with MC choosing from the second the map started to do a terrible all-in that anyone could tell wouldnt work against someone as good as MVP? I remember not long ago Mc 6 gate all-in Mvp and mvp could not stop it even with 5 bunkers. In fact, Mc did show he can outplay Mvp in a macro game. Mvp is the one does not want to play macro game against Mc. yet MC does a terrible 4 gate all-in.... Sigh... you're so blind I don't even know if you watch starcraft. All-ins aren't random, you don't just do it against someone because he's better/worse/whatever. You plan an all-in when you think the map and opponent are suitable for that all-in. In this case, considering maps, MC's best shot was the early game timing. MVP scouted well and could hold it, doesn't mean it was a bad decision. All-in =/= bad play. MC is a great player, most likely still best protoss around. If you think he's bad you haven't watched enough of his games. You might not like his style, but that's a completely different story. right MC was too scared to try and paly a macro game and did a bad all-in and lost becuase hes an inconsitant player wholl never be great you can use that to describe what Mvp did to Hero. ya but see MVP WON MC didnt win erego, MVP made the right choice and MC made the wrong choice and since the only damage MC managed to do was kill a bunker and a few marines it was completely the wrong choice
Yeah, MC should have time travelled and ofc known exactly what MVP was going to do, and thus revert from all-inning...
MC chose to go with what, against that opponent, in that horrible map, was his best shot, because he's confident in his micro and FFs. He lost, it happens, it doesn't mean he's "terrible and can't win macro games". In reality, MC's macro games are usually awesome, he has some of the best macro of all P right now.
I insist, I'm not sure if you watch starcraft, or just blindly rant. I'm inclining for the latter.
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The banner at the top should probably add: "Don't feed the trolls."
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On December 13 2011 04:32 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 04:31 double620 wrote:On December 13 2011 04:29 Forikorder wrote:On December 13 2011 04:27 mordk wrote:On December 13 2011 04:20 Forikorder wrote:On December 13 2011 04:18 double620 wrote:On December 13 2011 03:04 Forikorder wrote:On December 13 2011 03:02 power-overwhelming wrote:On December 13 2011 02:56 Forikorder wrote:
MC does it becuase hes terrible and cant win macro games
MVP didnt do anything stupid enough that would get killed by MCs 4gate blink stalker push yet MC was planning to do it from the probe split Wait... I know you must be a troll or just deprived of logic, but I'll bit. MC just beaten Bomber in a macro game. Out of every korean progamer, MC has been all-inned the most, especially by Terrans. When you're hating on someone at least have something to back it up. For instance, MVP starts out his interviews with excuses such as "bad condition, jet lagged, lack of sleep etc". MC draws the worst maps and still advances and you don't see his interview full of map qq. and what does that have to do at all with MC choosing from the second the map started to do a terrible all-in that anyone could tell wouldnt work against someone as good as MVP? I remember not long ago Mc 6 gate all-in Mvp and mvp could not stop it even with 5 bunkers. In fact, Mc did show he can outplay Mvp in a macro game. Mvp is the one does not want to play macro game against Mc. yet MC does a terrible 4 gate all-in.... Sigh... you're so blind I don't even know if you watch starcraft. All-ins aren't random, you don't just do it against someone because he's better/worse/whatever. You plan an all-in when you think the map and opponent are suitable for that all-in. In this case, considering maps, MC's best shot was the early game timing. MVP scouted well and could hold it, doesn't mean it was a bad decision. All-in =/= bad play. MC is a great player, most likely still best protoss around. If you think he's bad you haven't watched enough of his games. You might not like his style, but that's a completely different story. right MC was too scared to try and paly a macro game and did a bad all-in and lost becuase hes an inconsitant player wholl never be great you can use that to describe what Mvp did to Hero. ya but see MVP WON MC didnt win erego, MVP made the right choice and MC made the wrong choice and since the only damage MC managed to do was kill a bunker and a few marines it was completely the wrong choice
stop using double standards.
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On December 13 2011 04:53 SeaSwift wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 04:48 Forikorder wrote:
im not wining i dont care if MC continues to all-in or not in fact id prefer it becuase i dont like him and id prefer he gets stuck in medicraty till he retires
and if he was as good as you say he is, then how come he hasnt won a single event in months? his last win was his last GSL win when his all-ins could still be considered effective, ever since he hasnt won anything even the foreigner tournaments
I'm not going to respond to the content of your post, because it's the same rubbish people have been spouting since March, but PLEASE work on your spelling and grammar. I know it's entirely possible that you aren't a native English speaker, but that isn't much consolation when I'm trying to trawl through your post. Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 04:49 Olinimm wrote:
It's certainly possible that maybe due to his experiences in the teamhouse and the ladder he wasn't confident in a macro game against MC. Especially since MC said in his interview he's alot more confident in PvZ, maybe it really was his best shot. Did he say that? The last interview of his I read said that he still wasn't confident, but had come up with some new timings to get by until he figured out the matchup a bit better. As an aside, I'd like to point out that DRG now has REALLY scary ZvP. He used to be the one-dimensional ZvT player, but now he's just beastly in every matchup.
"If I make into the finals and face MVP, it will be very tough. I am confident about getting into the finals though. I also got more confidence in PvZ so meeting DRG in the semi-finals shouldn't be a problem." That's from the Group A winners interviews. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=293964
And yeah I would just stop dignifying that guy with a response.
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Stephano is much better than Idra. Idra is jealous of stephano.
User was banned for this post.
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On December 13 2011 04:57 Olinimm wrote:"If I make into the finals and face MVP, it will be very tough. I am confident about getting into the finals though. I also got more confidence in PvZ so meeting DRG in the semi-finals shouldn't be a problem." That's from the Group A winners interviews. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=293964And yeah I would just stop dignifying that guy with a response.
Thanks 
Sorry, I re-read my post and thought it sounded like I was interrogating you for evidence ^_^ Didn't mean it like that if it came across that way.
And yeah, I'm fairly sure he was trolling, but he was also representing a bunch of people who genuinely think that way so I answered him partly to refute the whole idea. Don't think I'll bother any more.
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Pretty sick games last night, had to fall asleep after MVP vs Hero but will be watching some VOD action as soon as I get home from work. I was laughing pretty hard last night when MVP did that SCV pull marine push against Hero, I was just about to fall asleep and then I hear Khaldor yelling so I sat up to catch the end and was glad I did.
Man Hero, you are so good but I have seen you try to be way too greedy in too many games lately! In fact I think the same can be said about some other Protoss lately, borderline blindly going Nexus first, and almost ALWAYS after trying to go it in a game before and having it fail. These Protoss remind me of when I chase an ex-girlfriend that crushed me in the past, y u gotta keep forcing something that owns you guys?! Don't for a second think I'm saying that Nexus first is a bad thing but I mean with bad scouting, you are asking to get all inned.
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On December 13 2011 04:48 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 04:36 halfies wrote:On December 13 2011 04:29 Forikorder wrote:On December 13 2011 04:27 mordk wrote:On December 13 2011 04:20 Forikorder wrote:On December 13 2011 04:18 double620 wrote:On December 13 2011 03:04 Forikorder wrote:On December 13 2011 03:02 power-overwhelming wrote:On December 13 2011 02:56 Forikorder wrote:
MC does it becuase hes terrible and cant win macro games
MVP didnt do anything stupid enough that would get killed by MCs 4gate blink stalker push yet MC was planning to do it from the probe split Wait... I know you must be a troll or just deprived of logic, but I'll bit. MC just beaten Bomber in a macro game. Out of every korean progamer, MC has been all-inned the most, especially by Terrans. When you're hating on someone at least have something to back it up. For instance, MVP starts out his interviews with excuses such as "bad condition, jet lagged, lack of sleep etc". MC draws the worst maps and still advances and you don't see his interview full of map qq. and what does that have to do at all with MC choosing from the second the map started to do a terrible all-in that anyone could tell wouldnt work against someone as good as MVP? I remember not long ago Mc 6 gate all-in Mvp and mvp could not stop it even with 5 bunkers. In fact, Mc did show he can outplay Mvp in a macro game. Mvp is the one does not want to play macro game against Mc. yet MC does a terrible 4 gate all-in.... Sigh... you're so blind I don't even know if you watch starcraft. All-ins aren't random, you don't just do it against someone because he's better/worse/whatever. You plan an all-in when you think the map and opponent are suitable for that all-in. In this case, considering maps, MC's best shot was the early game timing. MVP scouted well and could hold it, doesn't mean it was a bad decision. All-in =/= bad play. MC is a great player, most likely still best protoss around. If you think he's bad you haven't watched enough of his games. You might not like his style, but that's a completely different story. right MC was too scared to try and paly a macro game and did a bad all-in and lost becuase hes an inconsitant player wholl never be great bad all ins that win alot. hes playing for money, so i doubt he cares about entertaining whiners. also, he might not be consistently at HIS best, but hes pretty consistent in being ranked very highly. of course, it must be because hes so bad noone has any idea how to deal with him, and not that he has any skill, because that would be unthinkable. seriously, being a bad loser when your not even the one who lost is silly, and you should stop it. if stephano whined as much as you, he would be considered really BM, and he would actually have a reason im not wining i dont care if MC continues to all-in or not in fact id prefer it becuase i dont like him and id prefer he gets stuck in medicraty till he retires and if he was as good as you say he is, then how come he hasnt won a single event in months? his last win was his last GSL win when his all-ins could still be considered effective, ever since he hasnt won anything even the foreigner tournaments
you are whining.
and hes not 'stuck in mediocracy'. hes consistently performing at the highest level of starcraft, even if he doesn't win every game. there are certainly people who are better than him, but not many.
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Fuck, I thought stephano advanced... oh well, MC is good too. Don't like DRG nor MVP much 
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Mvp always has to try mech vs zerg... and this is what happens T.T.
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On December 13 2011 05:02 Share_The_Land wrote:
Man Hero, you are so good but I have seen you try to be way too greedy in too many games lately! In fact I think the same can be said about some other Protoss lately, borderline blindly going Nexus first, and almost ALWAYS after trying to go it in a game before and having it fail.
I won't argue that it was stupid in the PvP, but in PvT you have two choices: 1) fast expand, or 2) go fast Stargate.
If you don't do one of those you just straight up die to a 1-1-1. So if you can scout it isn't a 1-1-1, you can play safer, but otherwise you HAVE to fast expand or go Phoenix.
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TT I really though Stephano had a chance but before the groups even started I thought the deciding match would be MC vs Hero and honestly it ended up being so.
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On December 13 2011 03:05 Micket wrote:
After MC won his second GSL, he started playing pure macro every game. Do people not remember MLG columbus, GSTL and all of that? Remember his expand into stargate play vs Z? He used to do that every game, to the extent he would let his opponent scout it, because he knew he could play from a macro disadvantage because he was sooo superior to his opponent. Who remembers MC vs Puma in NASL? Every game was a macro game, he developed early phoenix play, which seemed amazing until Puma made ghosts. Does no one remember his drop defence, multitask, macro?
He stopped all inning and became too predictable. Now, he mixes it up. His old confidence is gone, so his unit control slips from time to time, but to say he is 'figured out' is ignorant and retarded.
Exactly. If you have a gun pointing at my head I'd say MC is still the best macro protoss. He just mixes his strategies to be unpredictable.
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On December 13 2011 03:51 tapk69 wrote:
Its funny to see everyone´s opinion on this forum , and seeing who are the favorites!
Too much hype for a player ( except MVP off course ) = losing fast and furious ( see leenock , huk , mkp , mma , nestea and so on )
Just look at Lebron James and the miami heat....
I spent a good two minutes on Liquipedia trying to figure out who this Lebron James whom I had never heard about was.
-_-
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On December 13 2011 04:54 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 04:32 Forikorder wrote:On December 13 2011 04:31 double620 wrote:On December 13 2011 04:29 Forikorder wrote:On December 13 2011 04:27 mordk wrote:On December 13 2011 04:20 Forikorder wrote:On December 13 2011 04:18 double620 wrote:On December 13 2011 03:04 Forikorder wrote:On December 13 2011 03:02 power-overwhelming wrote:On December 13 2011 02:56 Forikorder wrote:
MC does it becuase hes terrible and cant win macro games
MVP didnt do anything stupid enough that would get killed by MCs 4gate blink stalker push yet MC was planning to do it from the probe split Wait... I know you must be a troll or just deprived of logic, but I'll bit. MC just beaten Bomber in a macro game. Out of every korean progamer, MC has been all-inned the most, especially by Terrans. When you're hating on someone at least have something to back it up. For instance, MVP starts out his interviews with excuses such as "bad condition, jet lagged, lack of sleep etc". MC draws the worst maps and still advances and you don't see his interview full of map qq. and what does that have to do at all with MC choosing from the second the map started to do a terrible all-in that anyone could tell wouldnt work against someone as good as MVP? I remember not long ago Mc 6 gate all-in Mvp and mvp could not stop it even with 5 bunkers. In fact, Mc did show he can outplay Mvp in a macro game. Mvp is the one does not want to play macro game against Mc. yet MC does a terrible 4 gate all-in.... Sigh... you're so blind I don't even know if you watch starcraft. All-ins aren't random, you don't just do it against someone because he's better/worse/whatever. You plan an all-in when you think the map and opponent are suitable for that all-in. In this case, considering maps, MC's best shot was the early game timing. MVP scouted well and could hold it, doesn't mean it was a bad decision. All-in =/= bad play. MC is a great player, most likely still best protoss around. If you think he's bad you haven't watched enough of his games. You might not like his style, but that's a completely different story. right MC was too scared to try and paly a macro game and did a bad all-in and lost becuase hes an inconsitant player wholl never be great you can use that to describe what Mvp did to Hero. ya but see MVP WON MC didnt win erego, MVP made the right choice and MC made the wrong choice and since the only damage MC managed to do was kill a bunker and a few marines it was completely the wrong choice Yeah, MC should have time travelled and ofc known exactly what MVP was going to do, and thus revert from all-inning... MC chose to go with what, against that opponent, in that horrible map, was his best shot, because he's confident in his micro and FFs. He lost, it happens, it doesn't mean he's "terrible and can't win macro games". In reality, MC's macro games are usually awesome, he has some of the best macro of all P right now. I insist, I'm not sure if you watch starcraft, or just blindly rant. I'm inclining for the latter.
he didnt even put up a fight, it was a poorly thought out all-in he would ahve been better trying to rush to DTs he barely even killed any SCVs
his all-in didnt even come close to almost suceeding he looked jsut like a code A or below player
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On December 13 2011 05:26 SeaSwift wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 05:02 Share_The_Land wrote:
Man Hero, you are so good but I have seen you try to be way too greedy in too many games lately! In fact I think the same can be said about some other Protoss lately, borderline blindly going Nexus first, and almost ALWAYS after trying to go it in a game before and having it fail. I won't argue that it was stupid in the PvP, but in PvT you have two choices: 1) fast expand, or 2) go fast Stargate. If you don't do one of those you just straight up die to a 1-1-1. So if you can scout it isn't a 1-1-1, you can play safer, but otherwise you HAVE to fast expand or go Phoenix.
Yes this is true, I'll have to watch the VOD again tonight but it just seemed really bad when I was watching it last night. I mean it also is MVP he's facing, the guy has more builds than there are versions of Pokemon so hard to predict with MVP, even with good scouting
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On December 13 2011 05:43 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 04:54 mordk wrote:On December 13 2011 04:32 Forikorder wrote:On December 13 2011 04:31 double620 wrote:On December 13 2011 04:29 Forikorder wrote:On December 13 2011 04:27 mordk wrote:On December 13 2011 04:20 Forikorder wrote:On December 13 2011 04:18 double620 wrote:On December 13 2011 03:04 Forikorder wrote:On December 13 2011 03:02 power-overwhelming wrote:
[quote]
Wait... I know you must be a troll or just deprived of logic, but I'll bit.
MC just beaten Bomber in a macro game. Out of every korean progamer, MC has been all-inned the most, especially by Terrans.
When you're hating on someone at least have something to back it up. For instance, MVP starts out his interviews with excuses such as "bad condition, jet lagged, lack of sleep etc". MC draws the worst maps and still advances and you don't see his interview full of map qq.
and what does that have to do at all with MC choosing from the second the map started to do a terrible all-in that anyone could tell wouldnt work against someone as good as MVP? I remember not long ago Mc 6 gate all-in Mvp and mvp could not stop it even with 5 bunkers. In fact, Mc did show he can outplay Mvp in a macro game. Mvp is the one does not want to play macro game against Mc. yet MC does a terrible 4 gate all-in.... Sigh... you're so blind I don't even know if you watch starcraft. All-ins aren't random, you don't just do it against someone because he's better/worse/whatever. You plan an all-in when you think the map and opponent are suitable for that all-in. In this case, considering maps, MC's best shot was the early game timing. MVP scouted well and could hold it, doesn't mean it was a bad decision. All-in =/= bad play. MC is a great player, most likely still best protoss around. If you think he's bad you haven't watched enough of his games. You might not like his style, but that's a completely different story. right MC was too scared to try and paly a macro game and did a bad all-in and lost becuase hes an inconsitant player wholl never be great you can use that to describe what Mvp did to Hero. ya but see MVP WON MC didnt win erego, MVP made the right choice and MC made the wrong choice and since the only damage MC managed to do was kill a bunker and a few marines it was completely the wrong choice Yeah, MC should have time travelled and ofc known exactly what MVP was going to do, and thus revert from all-inning... MC chose to go with what, against that opponent, in that horrible map, was his best shot, because he's confident in his micro and FFs. He lost, it happens, it doesn't mean he's "terrible and can't win macro games". In reality, MC's macro games are usually awesome, he has some of the best macro of all P right now. I insist, I'm not sure if you watch starcraft, or just blindly rant. I'm inclining for the latter. he didnt even put up a fight, it was a poorly thought out all-in he would ahve been better trying to rush to DTs he barely even killed any SCVs his all-in didnt even come close to almost suceeding he looked jsut like a code A or below player
The biggest problem with MC atm is inconsistency. But let's be honest, there's no protoss showing consistent result atm. Naniwa? Not a long time ago he got raped by lucky in code A first round once again. Hero? He looked amazing in foreign tournament but he's still not able to show any spectacular result in GSL. Huk just dropped out of code S and so did puzzle. However, MC did manage to take out bomber, who is widely considered one of the best macro terran, in macro games to get back to code S. I know he some times does all in, but who the hell doesn't? Every player plays to win and there's nothing wrong with it. MC still got sharp skills, when he stabilizes I'm sure he'll be able to win code S again.
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On December 13 2011 05:45 Share_The_Land wrote:the guy has more builds than there are versions of Pokemon
Quoting for brilliance. Interesting question: If the players in this tournament were Pokemon (original 150), what would they be?
I'm putting forward MVP as Mewtwo.
For HerO vs MVP, his biggest mistake was just not scouting the barracks. It should be standard, especially when playing vs a player like MVP, to always scout for hidden buildings.
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EPT
