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Contrary to popular belief Stephano is not from the States, any mindless spam asserting otherwise after this time (19:48 KST/ 5:48 AM EST/ 10:48 GMT) will meet a moderator response. We have enough confusing spam posting in LR threads these days. Lets try to keep the love for everyone's favourite French zerg reasonable. And as always: - No player bashing. - No caster bashing. - No balance whining. Enjoy the games. | ||
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MayorITC
Korea (South)798 Posts
On December 12 2011 22:58 Linwelin wrote: I'm not angry at all. I was just stating my opinion about Stephano's play, not in the best way though. You admitted that you didn't even watch the games so shut up. | ||
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Ylrahc
France496 Posts
The problem with the games themselves were simply because they were BO1. However, the amount of bashing, specifically towards MC is sickening. Actually not many ppl are bashing MC, most say he played perfectly against Stephano (who actually could have won with slightly better decision making on his push), and apart from 2 or 3 trolls noone is saying he threw his game against DRG. Watching the game just makes it obvious anyway. It's nice to see most ppl agree on 1 thing though, Bo1 devaluated this tournament by a lot :s | ||
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kobrakai
175 Posts
On December 12 2011 22:18 IamPryda wrote: Every sport in the world uses head to head when it comes to a 2 team tie. lol so very wrong, try to be less retarded when you post. | ||
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redviper
Pakistan2333 Posts
On December 12 2011 23:03 quancer wrote: Replaying the entire group is not feasible and discounts the performance of those not in a tie, obviously. Do you agree that in a 3-way tie tiebreakers need to be played? If so then you can obviously see why this decision should be valued over replaying the entire group. And head-to-head as a tiebreaker is not simply 1 guy won and 1 guy lost, because this result is part of the tally that makes the players tied in the first place. Pretend Stephano vs MC is the final match: Stephano is 2-1 and MC is 1-2. MC needs to beat Stephano to even be tied with him in the first place. Because there is no point to having a repeat tie breaker, it doesn't add any new information. MC already beat Stephano, so he qualifies. Why play the games again? Ok lets pretend that Stephano vs MC is the final match. Stephano loses and MC wins. MC goes through. I am sorry, I am not just getting this insipid desire to muddle things up by having MC and Stephano play again. What would be the end result of that? If MC wins he goes through (he is 2-0 to Stephano). If MC loses he doesn't qualify and yet he is 1-1 to stephano. So lets make it a BO3? If MC wins 1 and loses 2 he doesn't go through and he is still tied at 2-2 overall. Its most fair and most immediate to compare the head to head results. | ||
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
On December 12 2011 22:47 redviper wrote: I don't care about Stephano but you can't compare the two situations. MVP and Nestea have won a shit load. They don't need to prove themselves as the best in the world. Everyone knows they are the best in the world. Naniwa and Stephano have won foreign tourneys but they haven't won GSL and they have certainly not shown that they are in a league all their own. Since they have something to prove they are judged all the time, Nestea/MVP do not. After MVP won GSL Jan there was a similar situation where he had to prove himself. After he won WC a lot of people still popah'd his accomplishments. He has already climbed this ladder (and so has Nestea who faced it right after GSL 2). Your post is a prime example of what I was talking about. Alright, so Nestea and MVP are multiple GSL title holders, right? So basically, your telling me that even if a foreigner beats MVP or Nestea "in a tournament setting" they still haven't proved anything? That's such an arrogant and bias comment. First off, if a foreigner beats a GSL champion in a straight up game I believe that's plenty of "proof" to say they are a great player. But instead, the crowd will say, "OH NESTEA OR MVP PLAYED BAD" overlooking how well they really played, just because they lost to a foreigner. If a Foreigner beats a top Korean on ladder the excuse is "OH THERE WAS LAG, NESTEA, MVP SUFFERED FROM LAG THAT'S WHY THEY LOST". If Koreans lose to a foreigner at a tournament setting the excuse is "OH HE'S JETLAGGED". But, when a foreigner loses, it's always something critical. It's a shame that the international scene is so bias toward Koreans and so harsh on their own countrymen. This is not Brood War, where koreans completely dominated the scene and there were little to no foreigner teams in the league. This is SC2, where Koreans and Foreigners can compete at the same level competitively. Koreans are still human, they are not invincible and certainly not unbeatable. I love both worlds. Stop being so harsh on foreigners just because they didn't advance. Instead pat their back for making it there in the first place because they certainly weren't given the spot in blizzcup, they earned it. | ||
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Muffinman53
571 Posts
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Khonsou
Dominican Republic275 Posts
Gogo Stephano! | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On December 12 2011 23:06 Ylrahc wrote: Actually not many ppl are bashing MC, most say he played perfectly against Stephano (who actually could have won with slightly better decision making on his push), and apart from 2 or 3 trolls noone is saying he threw his game against DRG. Watching the game just makes it obvious anyway. It's nice to see most ppl agree on 1 thing though, Bo1 devaluated this tournament by a lot :s It's a group stage format, aren't they usually a series of best of 1s? Otherwise it would have taken 6+ hours to finish all the games. Anyways, I don't feel like the tournament was devalued at all. The level of player skill at this tournament is insanely high. Stephano showed some good games, but it's also clear that he is not living up to the hype his fans create for him. | ||
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
On December 12 2011 23:05 MayorITC wrote: You admitted that you didn't even watch the games so shut up. lol Linwelin, how can you hate on somebody when YOU didn't even watch the games? | ||
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Linwelin
Ireland7554 Posts
On December 12 2011 23:13 BlazeFury01 wrote: lol Linwelin, how can you hate on somebody when YOU didn't even watch the games? I never said I didn't watch the games Oo Anyway this is pointless arguing which I started by not using the correct words. | ||
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redviper
Pakistan2333 Posts
On December 12 2011 23:11 BlazeFury01 wrote: Your post is a prime example of what I was talking about. Alright, so Nestea and MVP are multiple GSL title holders, right? So basically, your telling me that even if a foreigner beats MVP or Nestea "in a tournament setting" they still haven't proved anything? That's such an arrogant and bias comment. First off, if a foreigner beats a GSL champion in a straight up game I believe that's plenty of "proof" to say they are a great player. But instead, the crowd will say, "OH NESTEA OR MVP PLAYED BAD" overlooking how well they really played, just because they lost to a foreigner. If a Foreigner beats a top Korean on ladder the excuse is "OH THERE WAS LAG, NESTEA, MVP SUFFERED FROM LAG THAT'S WHY THEY LOST". If Koreans lose to a foreigner at a tournament setting the excuse is "OH HE'S JETLAGGED". But, when a foreigner loses, it's always something critical. It's a shame that the international scene is so bias toward Koreans and so harsh on their own countrymen. This is not Brood War, where koreans completely dominated the scene and there were little to no foreigner teams in the league. This is SC2, where Koreans and Foreigners can compete at the same level competitively. Koreans are still human, they are not invincible and certainly not unbeatable. I love both worlds. Stop being so harsh on foreigners just because they didn't advance. The point I was making was that MVP and Nestea have gone through this and proven themselves already. They already showed that they are the best. Up and comers will have to show that they are the best by two factors 1. winning, 2. consistently winning. It doesn't matter that MVP and Nestea are koreans, lets take Huk's example. First few times he won a tournament people were like "fluke" (and no one hates him for beating Moon in DH than me btw), but he has consistently proven that he is the best foreigner. He hasn't consistently won in Korea so he isn't considered the best in the world, but he is certainly rated by sane people as better than Naniwa and Stephano. | ||
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Alokiya
United States648 Posts
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IMNotMvp
Korea (South)530 Posts
the best protoss player in the world .... haha | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46221 Posts
On December 12 2011 23:12 SupLilSon wrote: It's a group stage format, aren't they usually a series of best of 1s? Otherwise it would have taken 6+ hours to finish all the games. I would be willing to take one for the team and watch 6+ hours of these guys play StarCraft if no one else on TL does. I'm a team player like that. | ||
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dapierow
Serbia1316 Posts
On December 12 2011 17:18 dapierow wrote: Remember page 28 guys, this is when dapierow told you that DRG will place 1st in this group. Now remember page 261 of Blizzard Cup Group A, this is when dapierow told you that DRG will place 1st in this tournament | ||
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Ysellian
Netherlands9029 Posts
On December 12 2011 23:15 Alokiya wrote: Is there a player (besides Idra) that inspires such strong feelings as Stephano? There's really not many people on the middle ground with him, it's absolutely a love/hate thing, which I don't get. Personally, I think he played solid today, there's no real shame in losing Bo1 to MVP and MC. It was good for him to have a super strong test, hopefully he enjoys the rest of his time in korea! Yeah with stephano it's odd. I mean Naniwa has Idra-like behaviour, but Stephano is well mannered. | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On December 12 2011 23:17 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I would be willing to take one for the team and watch 6+ hours of these guys play StarCraft if no one else on TL does. I'm a team player like that. So would I, and probably everyone else on TL :p but I doubt it's practical from GSL's standpoint. Maybe I'm alone, but I think people are focusing too much on the format. | ||
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b0rt_
Norway931 Posts
On December 12 2011 23:15 Alokiya wrote: Is there a player (besides Idra) that inspires such strong feelings as Stephano? There's really not many people on the middle ground with him, it's absolutely a love/hate thing, which I don't get. Personally, I think he played solid today, there's no real shame in losing Bo1 to MVP and MC. It was good for him to have a super strong test, hopefully he enjoys the rest of his time in korea! There is something exquisite about his play for me. | ||
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Squeegy
Finland1166 Posts
On December 12 2011 23:19 Ysellian wrote: Yeah with stephano it's odd. I mean Naniwa has Idra-like behaviour, but Stephano is well mannered. It's not odd at all because it's not the player. It's the fans. | ||
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quancer
Canada161 Posts
On December 12 2011 23:11 redviper wrote: Because there is no point to having a repeat tie breaker, it doesn't add any new information. MC already beat Stephano, so he qualifies. Why play the games again? Ok lets pretend that Stephano vs MC is the final match. Stephano loses and MC wins. MC goes through. I am sorry, I am not just getting this insipid desire to muddle things up by having MC and Stephano play again. What would be the end result of that? If MC wins he goes through (he is 2-0 to Stephano). If MC loses he doesn't qualify and yet he is 1-1 to stephano. So lets make it a BO3? If MC wins 1 and loses 2 he doesn't go through and he is still tied at 2-2 overall. Its most fair and most immediate to compare the head to head results. Because in this scenario MC needs to defeat Stephano to be even on score with him--MC is 1-2 and Stephano 2-1, remember. This is to say that it is a must-win for MC to be on at least equal footing with Stephano in the eyes of the tournament. Even though Stephano has already won 1 more match than MC, using head-to-head as a tiebreaker means that MC has more to gain from prevailing in this final match than Stephano has to gain from prevailing. You are artificially putting them on equal footing, when they are not, by allowing this one match determine who advances, even though Stephano comes into the match already having accomplished more than MC (i.e. has a better "score"). A tiebreaker match is a discrete competition whose winner's group stage score is given priority over that of the loser's. The event is separate, and so the winner is simply given priority, regardless of previous results. All we know is that MC and Stephano are tied in the eyes of the tournament, and that whoever wins the tiebreaker match is given the go-ahead. Considerations of bo3 record or whatever do not need to enter into this. | ||
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