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Contrary to popular belief Stephano is not from the States, any mindless spam asserting otherwise after this time (19:48 KST/ 5:48 AM EST/ 10:48 GMT) will meet a moderator response. We have enough confusing spam posting in LR threads these days. Lets try to keep the love for everyone's favourite French zerg reasonable.
And as always:
- No player bashing.
- No caster bashing.
- No balance whining.
Enjoy the games. |
On December 12 2011 21:43 Slike wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:38 Zalithian wrote:On December 12 2011 21:37 Slike wrote:This tournament would have a lot more potential if the format was better. We re talking about the winners of the most important major tournaments and arguably best players in the world and they re making them play in the horrible , upset heavy format of BO1  Id like to see them play some more and avoid games like MvP vs Hero or DRG vs Stephano. Also , Im not saying that MC threw the game cause thats just retarded , noone would ever not try his hardest in a broadcasted game and especially at this level BUT having a situation where 1 player lose or win has already advanced and holds the faith of other players' tournament life in his hand is also a pretty bad format... You know why Stephano didn't advance? Because he didn't win the games he needed to. Anyone trying to blame this on the format, MC, or DRG is delusional. Stephano is the sole reason he did not advance. Stop jumping on the bandwagon. Im not a Stephano fanboy and frankly dont care he didnt advance. All Im saying is its a bad format when a player has advanced no matter if he wins or loses and controls the tournament life of other players in a match. The same way - i forgot the tournament's name - got shat on because they actually let people know who they would meet if they advanced and stephano and bratok(?) prefered to lose and started doing stupid stuff should happen with GSL. This format isnt good...
Stephano vs BratOK, Assembly Summer 2011. Very good example.
The winner of that match would have faced Sen, and neither of them wanted to do that. In that case there wasn't a particular third player who suffered from them throwing the game, so it wasn't serious as this (by the way, MC didn't throw this one!).
Fun fact: BratOK gg'd the third game while he was clearly winning, Stephano beat Sen in the bracket and at the end Stephano and BratOK met again in the bronze match - where he got his revenge.
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Why the hell is this so hard for people to understand? o_o
People, even if they did play a tiebreaker match between MC and Stephano, if Stephano won it'd be 1-1. How would it then be fair to allow him to advance over MC in THAT tie?
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On December 12 2011 21:48 MayorITC wrote:
Why are people acting like this head-to-head format is new? It's been around for almost every tournament which has pool play. No one brought up match-fixing during DH or MLG pool play matches when a player was eliminated simply because of head-to-head results.
People (except fanboys) are not complaining about the head-to-head format. They re complaining about a format that offers a player the chance to decide his opponents fate in the tournament. No matter if MC threw the game or not (WHICH HE DIDNT <- READ THIS) , he shouldnt be given the option to. Lets just say there was someone else in MC's place and he really hated the player in Stephano's place. Wouldnt it suck that he would have the option to DQ him by just not playing as good as normally?
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Even me as a Stephano fanboy saw that MC tried all he could against DRG  Stephano played amazingly well today, took 2 maps off the best players in the world, beat DRG (who ended up first in the group) and almost qualified (gaaah this game vs MC, I'm sure he'll have nightmares of this one, he should have won it...)
What can be observed of this group A is that those players are incredibly close to each other and it could have gone either way in almost all matches... Fun fact, had MVP bested DRG it would have been a 3 players 2 - 2 tie, and it would have given us more matches, I actually hoped that :D
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I hate how poorly Stephano fans (or general tournament whines) are looking down on MC's ethic of play.
I hear the last guy that stole something from MC almost got his head face knocked off his head. So someone here go in person and tell MC that they're going to steal away his respect by insinuating that he would throw the game.
So disrespectful. It's not a flawed system, this shit happens in other sports and other tournament systems. Could they do a replay on the games? Well sure, perhaps that would be a better system. Tweet Mr Chae about it.
But don't insinuate MC threw the game. It's actually really frustrating to read.
Don't give me nationalism bs either. This isn't WCG, money is here to be made, MC respects international players a lot and he does a lot for the game and sport. He should be one of the last players that people call up for this shit.
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On December 12 2011 21:51 Reasonable wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:30 alpsi wrote:On December 12 2011 21:29 sitromit wrote:On December 12 2011 21:26 Reasonable wrote:
I really don't like how one player is chosen over the other with the same score. Head to head? What sport is this concept from? I say let MC play Stephano for the right to advance. That's some joke of a system. Stephano defeated DRG, who bested MC, if my knowledge of algebraic logical operators is correct, Stephano>DRG>MC leads to Stephano>MC. I'm surprised to see this "creativity" in a Korean tournament. And how does the fact that MC actually played Stephano and BEAT him factor into your logic?? cam down he's trolling lol I really don't see how advancement in such tournament should be based on an implication that one match result is preferred to the other. It is the first time I encounter this in sports, maybe this is a common practice somewhere. I'm sorry if I offended any MC fans with this, but I think it is just to complain about this tournament system considering the scale of the Blizzard cup
It is everywhere in sports. So making assumptions about system that is in practice for years only shows ignorance. Just watch some soccer or basketball pool play, as an example.
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the only reason people are talking about the format or whether or not MC threw the last game is because stephano didn't advance... if he did, we wouldn't have seen any of this...
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if you think the tournament results are wrong, and that you don't like the way its run, don't watch it. if you think that stephano is better than MC, thats fine, but MC did beat him this time, so its only fair that he goes through. if you really think they should have played a game, they did. and MC won. maybe stephano would have played better if hed known it would count for so much, but thats his fault, and no one elses. if you want a system where everyone plays loads of matches and gets placed due to average skill, and not individual wins, its called the ladder. obviously GOM cant show everyone playing everyone infinite times to rule out lucky maps and strategies.
plus, MC has great entertainment value, and stephano doesnt, imo
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On December 12 2011 21:52 Bromazepam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:43 Slike wrote:On December 12 2011 21:38 Zalithian wrote:On December 12 2011 21:37 Slike wrote:This tournament would have a lot more potential if the format was better. We re talking about the winners of the most important major tournaments and arguably best players in the world and they re making them play in the horrible , upset heavy format of BO1 Id like to see them play some more and avoid games like MvP vs Hero or DRG vs Stephano. Also , Im not saying that MC threw the game cause thats just retarded , noone would ever not try his hardest in a broadcasted game and especially at this level BUT having a situation where 1 player lose or win has already advanced and holds the faith of other players' tournament life in his hand is also a pretty bad format... You know why Stephano didn't advance? Because he didn't win the games he needed to. Anyone trying to blame this on the format, MC, or DRG is delusional. Stephano is the sole reason he did not advance. Stop jumping on the bandwagon. Im not a Stephano fanboy and frankly dont care he didnt advance. All Im saying is its a bad format when a player has advanced no matter if he wins or loses and controls the tournament life of other players in a match. The same way - i forgot the tournament's name - got shat on because they actually let people know who they would meet if they advanced and stephano and bratok(?) prefered to lose and started doing stupid stuff should happen with GSL. This format isnt good... Stephano vs BratOK, Assembly Summer 2011. Very good example. The winner of that match would have faced Sen, and neither of them wanted to do that. In that case there wasn't a particular third player who suffered from them throwing the game, so it wasn't serious as this (by the way, MC didn't throw this one!). Fun fact: BratOK gg'd the third game while he was clearly winning, Stephano beat Sen in the bracket and at the end Stephano and BratOK met again in the bronze match - where he got his revenge.
Fun fact: Byun and Coca got shit on hard when Coca intentionally threw a match. No one in Korea would be remotely amused if that happened. You can find flaws in any format except a best of seven between every single player with a loser's bracket.
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On December 12 2011 21:52 KunFuSion wrote:
Why the hell is this so hard for people to understand? o_o
People, even if they did play a tiebreaker match between MC and Stephano, if Stephano won it'd be 1-1. How would it then be fair to allow him to advance over MC in THAT tie?
Because he is then 3-2 while MC is 2-3, why the hell is that so hard for you to understand? Its fine to disagree and think the headsup tiebreaker is fine, but implying the other point of view is ridiculous is very silly.
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It is better if NO ONE has to be put into a position to be deciding if a game is thrown or not. So this implies changing the rules
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On December 12 2011 21:49 darkest44 wrote:
Some players are always going to lose or win enough in a group format to determine their fate before the group play ends and "have less incentive to win or lose" their last matches, it's impossible to prevent.
The GSL's regular group stages dual tournament format avoids this by not having matches that are irrelevant. Every match will make a difference for someone between being in the grey "might get through" middle, or the assured 2-0 or 0-2 win/loss.
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On December 12 2011 21:49 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:48 MayorITC wrote:
Why are people acting like this head-to-head format is new? It's been around for almost every tournament which has pool play. No one brought up match-fixing during DH or MLG pool play matches when a player was eliminated simply because of head-to-head results. They aren't and they did. Also just because something has been around for a long time does not make it right.
Read the thread. People are acting like this is some foreign tournament format, citing how other sports don't use this head-to-head. They're obviously ignorant of the fact that MLG and DH used the same format. Also, cite some proof of where people called out match-fixing in MLG/DH involving pool play matches.
And there is no "right" or "wrong" format. Blizzard Cup chose to go with an already-established format. I didn't see people voicing their complaints about the format before today's matches began. And if you're going to argue against that one, once again, cite your evidence.
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im pretty sure this happens to all sports. since i live in australia, AFL is a great example. i remember first place was playing against a team that was 9th. Top 8 gets into the finals. 1st decided to bench all their good players and get them rested, cause they don't care bout the result, and as a bonus, both team were in the same state.
bitching was then proceeded, discussions was talked about on sports panel. it end up with blunt statements to suck it up and tell your team to play better, 10+ years later, same format and still the most watched sport in australia.
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On December 12 2011 21:54 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:52 KunFuSion wrote:
Why the hell is this so hard for people to understand? o_o
People, even if they did play a tiebreaker match between MC and Stephano, if Stephano won it'd be 1-1. How would it then be fair to allow him to advance over MC in THAT tie? Because he is then 3-2 while MC is 2-3, why the hell is that so hard for you to understand? Its fine to disagree and think the headsup tiebreaker is fine, but implying the other point of view is ridiculous is very silly.
Oh, so then DRG and MVP get to play again, right? First place is just as important as advancing. This could go on forever.
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On December 12 2011 21:53 halfies wrote:
if you think the tournament results are wrong, and that you don't like the way its run, don't watch it. if you think that stephano is better than MC, thats fine, but MC did beat him this time, so its only fair that he goes through. if you really think they should have played a game, they did. and MC won. maybe stephano would have played better if hed known it would count for so much, but thats his fault, and no one elses. if you want a system where everyone plays loads of matches and gets placed due to average skill, and not individual wins, its called the ladder. obviously GOM cant show everyone playing everyone infinite times to rule out lucky maps and strategies.
plus, MC has great entertainment value, and stephano doesnt, imo
Aah, someone had to pull the "if you don't like it don't watch it" argument.
That attitude always makes things better.
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On December 12 2011 21:43 Slike wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:38 Zalithian wrote:On December 12 2011 21:37 Slike wrote:This tournament would have a lot more potential if the format was better. We re talking about the winners of the most important major tournaments and arguably best players in the world and they re making them play in the horrible , upset heavy format of BO1 Id like to see them play some more and avoid games like MvP vs Hero or DRG vs Stephano. Also , Im not saying that MC threw the game cause thats just retarded , noone would ever not try his hardest in a broadcasted game and especially at this level BUT having a situation where 1 player lose or win has already advanced and holds the faith of other players' tournament life in his hand is also a pretty bad format... You know why Stephano didn't advance? Because he didn't win the games he needed to. Anyone trying to blame this on the format, MC, or DRG is delusional. Stephano is the sole reason he did not advance. Stop jumping on the bandwagon. Im not a Stephano fanboy and frankly dont care he didnt advance. All Im saying is its a bad format when a player has advanced no matter if he wins or loses and controls the tournament life of other players in a match. The same way - i forgot the tournament's name - got shat on because they actually let people know who they would meet if they advanced and stephano and bratok(?) prefered to lose and started doing stupid stuff should happen with GSL. This format isnt good...
This would be true, if you only advanced or didn't advance. But with the way it worked where number 1 got seeded into the semi finals, there was always something to fight for. DRG now has a guaranteed $4.2k and only needs to one one boX to get into the finals, whereas if mvp has won one more game he would be in that position, which is immensely better then being in the second/third place spot and getting into what is effectively a ro8. So every game did matter, alot.
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On December 12 2011 21:51 Reasonable wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:30 alpsi wrote:On December 12 2011 21:29 sitromit wrote:On December 12 2011 21:26 Reasonable wrote:
I really don't like how one player is chosen over the other with the same score. Head to head? What sport is this concept from? I say let MC play Stephano for the right to advance. That's some joke of a system. Stephano defeated DRG, who bested MC, if my knowledge of algebraic logical operators is correct, Stephano>DRG>MC leads to Stephano>MC. I'm surprised to see this "creativity" in a Korean tournament. And how does the fact that MC actually played Stephano and BEAT him factor into your logic?? cam down he's trolling lol I'm not trolling at all. That fact that you think I'm trolling is because there are two mathematically equal solutions to this result, and the one that is given the preference is more intuitive. I'm not a big fan of Stephano, but I respect him as a player and to invite someone to such tournament and fly him all the way to Korea and to rate by a controversial scale is rather disrespectful at least. Here is something who hasn't slept through inequalities on algebra: let M=MC, S=Stephano, D=DRG M>S S>D } -> (S>D>M or M>S) = (S>M or M>S) D>M I really don't see how advancement in such tournament should be based on an implication that one match result is preferred to the other. It is the first time I encounter this in sports, maybe this is a common practice somewhere. I'm sorry if I offended any MC fans with this, but I think it is just to complain about this tournament system considering the scale of the Blizzard cup
... and i don't see how algebra should be considered on a tournament where human players battle it out against each other and even the slightest mistake can cost you a bo1...?
this is pure nonsense!
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Very amateurish of Gom. This is the exact reason why the final games of the group stage in the world cup are played simultaneously.
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On December 12 2011 21:55 bbm wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:49 darkest44 wrote:
Some players are always going to lose or win enough in a group format to determine their fate before the group play ends and "have less incentive to win or lose" their last matches, it's impossible to prevent. The GSL's regular group stages dual tournament format avoids this by not having matches that are irrelevant. Every match will make a difference for someone between being in the grey "might get through" middle, or the assured 2-0 or 0-2 win/loss.
This is 5 players, it's completely different than 4 and what you said is impossible with 5. Do some math.
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EPT
