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Contrary to popular belief Stephano is not from the States, any mindless spam asserting otherwise after this time (19:48 KST/ 5:48 AM EST/ 10:48 GMT) will meet a moderator response. We have enough confusing spam posting in LR threads these days. Lets try to keep the love for everyone's favourite French zerg reasonable.
And as always:
- No player bashing.
- No caster bashing.
- No balance whining.
Enjoy the games. |
On December 12 2011 21:41 darkest44 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:37 King.Crimson wrote:On December 12 2011 21:35 darkest44 wrote:On December 12 2011 21:29 King.Crimson wrote:
I don't like the situation that transpired in the last couple of games. The loser of the first series of the last two games (Mvp - Stephano) is at a clear disadvantage, considering one of the other two players will be qualified based on the former result, and thus not put in 100% effort into their game. Both sets should have been played simultaneously to prevent this. You gotta be shitting me. First off, MC always tries, because he has a lot of pride (and arrogance) and he hates losing. DRG simply played better, if MC wasn't trying he wouldn't have stayed in the game so damn long try to weasel his way back in. 2nd then 1000 times more people would be screaming and complaining that not every game is cast or cast on the main stream. GOM just can't win, there will always be some entitled whiner on TL who will find something to whine about when their player doesn't win. All i'm saying is play the god damn games at the same time to prevent problems like this. It's not a huge organizational effort. And it's the same procedure in football in the last week of a national league. Yea great idea, play the games at the same time and ruin the tournament for the viewers who can't watch em all at once for the 1% chance of this situation arising and someone actually throwing a game (which didn't happen). It's a tv show meant to entertain not cater to your every whim and complaint because your fav player lost, get a grip.
his complaint has nothing to do with stephano, its actually player condition driven, have you ever played a group and happened to lost a match ? its gruelling experience
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On December 12 2011 21:39 figq wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:35 darkest44 wrote:On December 12 2011 21:29 King.Crimson wrote:
I don't like the situation that transpired in the last couple of games. The loser of the first series of the last two games (Mvp - Stephano) is at a clear disadvantage, considering one of the other two players will be qualified based on the former result, and thus not put in 100% effort into their game. Both sets should have been played simultaneously to prevent this. You gotta be shitting me. First off, MC always tries, because he has a lot of pride (and arrogance) and he hates losing. DRG simply played better, if MC wasn't trying he wouldn't have stayed in the game so damn long try to weasel his way back in. 2nd then 1000 times more people would be screaming and complaining that not every game is cast or cast on the main stream. GOM just can't win, there will always be some entitled whiner on TL who will find something to whine about when their player doesn't win. He has a point though, and in other sports (soccer) with similar round robin format, the last two games are usually played simultaneously. GOM organizes the best SC2 tournament in the world, I'm sure they can maintain two simultaneous streams, like MLG and IPL maintain up to four with two free on low quality.
Even with games play simultaneously, it's pretty common for teams to change their tactics depending on what the other game's score is. Playing to draw/going all out to win via goal advantage, etc.
It helps that soccer has the audience to do this but sacrifices must be made for broadcasting, and this I think is a very very minor sacrifice, the games may lose a bit of tension e.g. MC already knows he's through. but the ability to watch live is very important to a lot of people
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Yeah the last games should be played at the same time. Hopefully GSL will take note of this for next group.
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On December 12 2011 21:41 darkest44 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:37 King.Crimson wrote:On December 12 2011 21:35 darkest44 wrote:On December 12 2011 21:29 King.Crimson wrote:
I don't like the situation that transpired in the last couple of games. The loser of the first series of the last two games (Mvp - Stephano) is at a clear disadvantage, considering one of the other two players will be qualified based on the former result, and thus not put in 100% effort into their game. Both sets should have been played simultaneously to prevent this. You gotta be shitting me. First off, MC always tries, because he has a lot of pride (and arrogance) and he hates losing. DRG simply played better, if MC wasn't trying he wouldn't have stayed in the game so damn long try to weasel his way back in. 2nd then 1000 times more people would be screaming and complaining that not every game is cast or cast on the main stream. GOM just can't win, there will always be some entitled whiner on TL who will find something to whine about when their player doesn't win. All i'm saying is play the god damn games at the same time to prevent problems like this. It's not a huge organizational effort. And it's the same procedure in football in the last week of a national league. Yea great idea, play the games at the same time and ruin the tournament for the viewers who can't watch em all at once for the 1% chance of this situation arising and someone actually throwing a game (which didn't happen). It's a tv show meant to entertain not cater to your every whim and complaint because your fav player lost, get a grip.
Are you for real? Seriously you have to be joking with this god awful post of yours. It's not a fucking TV-show it's a cup to decide the best of the best. Not playing the matches at the same time is punishing the players. You should probably get a grip if you think the tournament should cater to the viewers instead of the players.
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On December 12 2011 21:39 mango_destroyer wrote:
LOL this is too funny. People claiming MC threw games so Stephano can`t advance (huge accusation) and head-to-head suddenly something to dislike despite it being in almost every tournament. I rarely see complaints for that format. This foreigner bias is too much.
Seriously, is there a even a SC2 tournament that doesn't use head-to-head when players have even score? Dreamhack uses it, MLG uses it, ESL uses it, who doesn't? One foreigner gets eliminated, and suddenly the system is bad and rigged, LOL!
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<.<. if you guys gonna complain. you might as well complain about Hero vs DRG when hero has no chance of qualfying as well.
but you guys doing it for stephano.... 
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On December 12 2011 21:42 King.Crimson wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:38 NightOfTheDead wrote:On December 12 2011 21:35 King.Crimson wrote:On December 12 2011 21:31 mcmartini wrote:On December 12 2011 21:29 King.Crimson wrote:
I don't like the situation that transpired in the last couple of games. The loser of the first series of the last two games (Mvp - Stephano) is at a clear disadvantage, considering one of the other two players will be qualified based on the former result, and thus not put in 100% effort into their game. Both sets should have been played simultaneously to prevent this. All these comments about players not putting in 100% are ridiculous, more than anything you think MC would try harder seeing as he is living with Stephano at the moment. What if MC and DRG were clanmates and MC had no relation with Stephano. Do you honestly believe DRG wouldn't get the win from MC in that scenario? The system is flawed. Stop blaming everyone. Stephano had his games and he missed a chance. Nobody's fault. I'm not a fan of either Stephano or MC in particular (MVP is my boy), but i'm trying to look at this situation objectively. And it's a flawed one, you don't even need a lot of logic and common sense to realize it. The two players in the last game have an edge over the former two, thanks to the information gained on their result which directly affects their own. Such as MC's freedom of choice to either fight for 2nd place with DRG, or be content with taking 3rd, thus eliminating Stephano. Maybe he fears Stephano in a bo3 or bo5 more than he does DRG and wants him eliminated from the tournament. His motivations can be several.
Considering MC would have to fight with 3rd or 2nd place in a tournament of ALL-stars and best players in the world, would you really think he would not want 2nd place? Also, there is money involved, they live from this.
And again, it's Stephano who could change all this. He didnt, and let others decide this for him. This happens a lot in sports. Like really a lot. In basketball, soccer (its football actually, but to be clear) etcetc. This system is not unusual, and is used a lot.
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The biggest advantage to doing what they did is they allowed every player a rest between games. No player played immediately after finishing a previous one. If you had changed that for the final two games, you would have unfairly penalized DRG over any other player.
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The thing is, MC still has a vested interest in the outcome of him vs DRG, because if he beat DRG he would play the 3rd place of group B in the playoff ladder, whereas now he plays the 2nd place player. So he's at a slight disadvantage now.
however i still think the round robin problems are a bit silly
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On December 12 2011 21:45 trucane wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:41 darkest44 wrote:On December 12 2011 21:37 King.Crimson wrote:On December 12 2011 21:35 darkest44 wrote:On December 12 2011 21:29 King.Crimson wrote:
I don't like the situation that transpired in the last couple of games. The loser of the first series of the last two games (Mvp - Stephano) is at a clear disadvantage, considering one of the other two players will be qualified based on the former result, and thus not put in 100% effort into their game. Both sets should have been played simultaneously to prevent this. You gotta be shitting me. First off, MC always tries, because he has a lot of pride (and arrogance) and he hates losing. DRG simply played better, if MC wasn't trying he wouldn't have stayed in the game so damn long try to weasel his way back in. 2nd then 1000 times more people would be screaming and complaining that not every game is cast or cast on the main stream. GOM just can't win, there will always be some entitled whiner on TL who will find something to whine about when their player doesn't win. All i'm saying is play the god damn games at the same time to prevent problems like this. It's not a huge organizational effort. And it's the same procedure in football in the last week of a national league. Yea great idea, play the games at the same time and ruin the tournament for the viewers who can't watch em all at once for the 1% chance of this situation arising and someone actually throwing a game (which didn't happen). It's a tv show meant to entertain not cater to your every whim and complaint because your fav player lost, get a grip. Are you for real? Seriously you have to be joking with this god awful post of yours. It's not a fucking TV-show it's a cup to decide the best of the best. Not playing the matches at the same time is punishing the players. You should probably get a grip if you think the tournament should cater to the viewers instead of the players.
Its actually both a tv-show and a tournament. Playing games at the same time is not going to happen because it is diifficult from a logistical and business perspective. Playing a game as a tiebreaker makes much more sense in my opinion.
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On December 12 2011 21:45 trucane wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:41 darkest44 wrote:On December 12 2011 21:37 King.Crimson wrote:On December 12 2011 21:35 darkest44 wrote:On December 12 2011 21:29 King.Crimson wrote:
I don't like the situation that transpired in the last couple of games. The loser of the first series of the last two games (Mvp - Stephano) is at a clear disadvantage, considering one of the other two players will be qualified based on the former result, and thus not put in 100% effort into their game. Both sets should have been played simultaneously to prevent this. You gotta be shitting me. First off, MC always tries, because he has a lot of pride (and arrogance) and he hates losing. DRG simply played better, if MC wasn't trying he wouldn't have stayed in the game so damn long try to weasel his way back in. 2nd then 1000 times more people would be screaming and complaining that not every game is cast or cast on the main stream. GOM just can't win, there will always be some entitled whiner on TL who will find something to whine about when their player doesn't win. All i'm saying is play the god damn games at the same time to prevent problems like this. It's not a huge organizational effort. And it's the same procedure in football in the last week of a national league. Yea great idea, play the games at the same time and ruin the tournament for the viewers who can't watch em all at once for the 1% chance of this situation arising and someone actually throwing a game (which didn't happen). It's a tv show meant to entertain not cater to your every whim and complaint because your fav player lost, get a grip. Are you for real? Seriously you have to be joking with this god awful post of yours. It's not a fucking TV-show it's a cup to decide the best of the best. Not playing the matches at the same time is punishing the players. You should probably get a grip if you think the tournament should cater to the viewers instead of the players.
But it is a TV show in Korea.
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On December 12 2011 21:46 masakenji wrote:<.<. if you guys gonna complain. you might as well complain about Hero vs DRG when hero has no chance of qualfying as well. but you guys doing it for stephano....
People did complain about that as well and it's just as awful. It doesn't take a genius to realize that someone that has no chance of advancing won't play his best.
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Why are people acting like this head-to-head format is new? It's been around for almost every tournament which has pool play. No one brought up match-fixing during DH or MLG pool play matches when a player was eliminated simply because of head-to-head results.
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On December 12 2011 21:45 trucane wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:41 darkest44 wrote:On December 12 2011 21:37 King.Crimson wrote:On December 12 2011 21:35 darkest44 wrote:On December 12 2011 21:29 King.Crimson wrote:
I don't like the situation that transpired in the last couple of games. The loser of the first series of the last two games (Mvp - Stephano) is at a clear disadvantage, considering one of the other two players will be qualified based on the former result, and thus not put in 100% effort into their game. Both sets should have been played simultaneously to prevent this. You gotta be shitting me. First off, MC always tries, because he has a lot of pride (and arrogance) and he hates losing. DRG simply played better, if MC wasn't trying he wouldn't have stayed in the game so damn long try to weasel his way back in. 2nd then 1000 times more people would be screaming and complaining that not every game is cast or cast on the main stream. GOM just can't win, there will always be some entitled whiner on TL who will find something to whine about when their player doesn't win. All i'm saying is play the god damn games at the same time to prevent problems like this. It's not a huge organizational effort. And it's the same procedure in football in the last week of a national league. Yea great idea, play the games at the same time and ruin the tournament for the viewers who can't watch em all at once for the 1% chance of this situation arising and someone actually throwing a game (which didn't happen). It's a tv show meant to entertain not cater to your every whim and complaint because your fav player lost, get a grip. Are you for real? Seriously you have to be joking with this god awful post of yours. It's not a fucking TV-show it's a cup to decide the best of the best. Not playing the matches at the same time is punishing the players. You should probably get a grip if you think the tournament should cater to the viewers instead of the players.
It is a TV show and that is a very crucial part of GSL. Where do you newbies come from?
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On December 12 2011 21:45 trucane wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:41 darkest44 wrote:On December 12 2011 21:37 King.Crimson wrote:On December 12 2011 21:35 darkest44 wrote:On December 12 2011 21:29 King.Crimson wrote:
I don't like the situation that transpired in the last couple of games. The loser of the first series of the last two games (Mvp - Stephano) is at a clear disadvantage, considering one of the other two players will be qualified based on the former result, and thus not put in 100% effort into their game. Both sets should have been played simultaneously to prevent this. You gotta be shitting me. First off, MC always tries, because he has a lot of pride (and arrogance) and he hates losing. DRG simply played better, if MC wasn't trying he wouldn't have stayed in the game so damn long try to weasel his way back in. 2nd then 1000 times more people would be screaming and complaining that not every game is cast or cast on the main stream. GOM just can't win, there will always be some entitled whiner on TL who will find something to whine about when their player doesn't win. All i'm saying is play the god damn games at the same time to prevent problems like this. It's not a huge organizational effort. And it's the same procedure in football in the last week of a national league. Yea great idea, play the games at the same time and ruin the tournament for the viewers who can't watch em all at once for the 1% chance of this situation arising and someone actually throwing a game (which didn't happen). It's a tv show meant to entertain not cater to your every whim and complaint because your fav player lost, get a grip. Are you for real? Seriously you have to be joking with this god awful post of yours. It's not a fucking TV-show it's a cup to decide the best of the best. Not playing the matches at the same time is punishing the players. You should probably get a grip if you think the tournament should cater to the viewers instead of the players.
There would be no players if there were no viewers, idiot. Yes tv shows cater to viewers that's who pays their bills by getting them sponsorship/ad revenue... This is the same way every fucking group format is played out in any tournament, people now just decide to whine because Stephano didn't advance.
Some players are always going to lose or win enough in a group format to determine their fate before the group play ends and "have less incentive to win or lose" their last matches, it's impossible to prevent. For instance people could argue hero had "no incentive to try" and thus effected the results when he was already down 0-3 and had no chance to advance. But no one complained about that, and if MC won I'm sure they wouldn't complain either, they only complain cause they are butthurt stephano is out and want to place the blame somewhere. There's no way to prevent this without scrapping group play all together.
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On December 12 2011 21:48 MayorITC wrote:
Why are people acting like this head-to-head format is new? It's been around for almost every tournament which has pool play. No one brought up match-fixing during DH or MLG pool play matches when a player was eliminated simply because of head-to-head results.
They aren't and they did. Also just because something has been around for a long time does not make it right.
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Helping this problem solutions
Solution1: Last 2 Games being played at the same time. Bad for viewers, good for players.
Solution2: Final game between Stephano and MC. Good for viewers, "bad" for players(since they have to play more)
Or no solution at all, which causes nationalism, game fixing, disadvantage issues
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On December 12 2011 21:47 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:45 trucane wrote:On December 12 2011 21:41 darkest44 wrote:On December 12 2011 21:37 King.Crimson wrote:On December 12 2011 21:35 darkest44 wrote:On December 12 2011 21:29 King.Crimson wrote:
I don't like the situation that transpired in the last couple of games. The loser of the first series of the last two games (Mvp - Stephano) is at a clear disadvantage, considering one of the other two players will be qualified based on the former result, and thus not put in 100% effort into their game. Both sets should have been played simultaneously to prevent this. You gotta be shitting me. First off, MC always tries, because he has a lot of pride (and arrogance) and he hates losing. DRG simply played better, if MC wasn't trying he wouldn't have stayed in the game so damn long try to weasel his way back in. 2nd then 1000 times more people would be screaming and complaining that not every game is cast or cast on the main stream. GOM just can't win, there will always be some entitled whiner on TL who will find something to whine about when their player doesn't win. All i'm saying is play the god damn games at the same time to prevent problems like this. It's not a huge organizational effort. And it's the same procedure in football in the last week of a national league. Yea great idea, play the games at the same time and ruin the tournament for the viewers who can't watch em all at once for the 1% chance of this situation arising and someone actually throwing a game (which didn't happen). It's a tv show meant to entertain not cater to your every whim and complaint because your fav player lost, get a grip. Are you for real? Seriously you have to be joking with this god awful post of yours. It's not a fucking TV-show it's a cup to decide the best of the best. Not playing the matches at the same time is punishing the players. You should probably get a grip if you think the tournament should cater to the viewers instead of the players. Its actually both a tv-show and a tournament. Playing games at the same time is not going to happen because it is diifficult from a logistical and business perspective. Playing a game as a tiebreaker makes much more sense in my opinion.
Yeah but a tiebreaker gets hate because a player goes essentially 1-1 against the same player, but ends up dropping out XD I think if a scenario such as this presents itself it's better to play both games simultaneous for the sake of fairness. (not that it would have mattered, because MC would have needed a fucking miracle to beat DRG on Crossfire)
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On December 12 2011 21:49 Holdinga wrote:
Helping this problem solutions
Solution1: Last 2 Games being played at the same time. Bad for viewers, good for players.
Solution2: Final game between Stephano and MC. Good for viewers, "bad" for players(since they have to play more)
Or no solution at all, which causes nationalism, game fixing, disadvantage issues
Why on earth are people suggesting a final game between Stephano and MC? MC ALREADY BEAT HIM LIKE AN HOUR AGO LOZLJDK
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On December 12 2011 21:30 alpsi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:29 sitromit wrote:On December 12 2011 21:26 Reasonable wrote:
I really don't like how one player is chosen over the other with the same score. Head to head? What sport is this concept from? I say let MC play Stephano for the right to advance. That's some joke of a system. Stephano defeated DRG, who bested MC, if my knowledge of algebraic logical operators is correct, Stephano>DRG>MC leads to Stephano>MC. I'm surprised to see this "creativity" in a Korean tournament. And how does the fact that MC actually played Stephano and BEAT him factor into your logic?? cam down he's trolling lol
I'm not trolling at all. That fact that you think I'm trolling is because there are two mathematically equal solutions to this result, and the one that is given the preference is more intuitive. I'm not a big fan of Stephano, but I respect him as a player and to invite someone to such tournament and fly him all the way to Korea and to rate by a controversial scale is rather disrespectful at least.
Here is something who hasn't slept through inequalities on algebra:
let M=MC, S=Stephano, D=DRG
M>S
S>D } -> (S>D>M or M>S) = (S>M or M>S)
D>M
I really don't see how advancement in such tournament should be based on an implication that one match result is preferred to the other. It is the first time I encounter this in sports, maybe this is a common practice somewhere. I'm sorry if I offended any MC fans with this, but I think it is just to complain about this tournament system considering the scale of the Blizzard cup
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EPT
