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Contrary to popular belief Stephano is not from the States, any mindless spam asserting otherwise after this time (19:48 KST/ 5:48 AM EST/ 10:48 GMT) will meet a moderator response. We have enough confusing spam posting in LR threads these days. Lets try to keep the love for everyone's favourite French zerg reasonable.
And as always:
- No player bashing.
- No caster bashing.
- No balance whining.
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On December 12 2011 21:35 darkest44 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:29 King.Crimson wrote:
I don't like the situation that transpired in the last couple of games. The loser of the first series of the last two games (Mvp - Stephano) is at a clear disadvantage, considering one of the other two players will be qualified based on the former result, and thus not put in 100% effort into their game. Both sets should have been played simultaneously to prevent this. You gotta be shitting me. First off, MC always tries, because he has a lot of pride (and arrogance) and he hates losing. DRG simply played better, if MC wasn't trying he wouldn't have stayed in the game so damn long try to weasel his way back in. 2nd then 1000 times more people would be screaming and complaining that not every game is cast or cast on the main stream. GOM just can't win, there will always be some entitled whiner on TL who will find something to whine about when their player doesn't win. He has a point though, and in other sports (soccer) with similar round robin format, the last two games are usually played simultaneously. GOM organizes the best SC2 tournament in the world, I'm sure they can maintain two simultaneous streams, like MLG and IPL maintain up to four with two free on low quality.
P.S. I don't think it mattered today though, but it could matter in another situation with such format. Especially when teammates are involved, for example.
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On December 12 2011 21:37 Bromazepam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:35 bgx wrote:On December 12 2011 21:33 Bromazepam wrote:
It's the classic argument, round-robin with head-to-head rule is an extremely polarising format.
Personally I hate it because it means we don't get an extra game :p
I wanted MC, Hero, DRG and Stephano to go through (wanted, not thought it'd happen!) so in the end the result of this final match didn't matter to me.
But yeah, head-to-head is a stupid rule and it sucks. those situations happened countless times in sports/esports people just have to live with it... Or perhaps instead of being passive people could be reactive and try to voice their opinion to see if this can spring a change?
OK then i am going to voice my opinion and say head to head is fine, no change is needed. They where tied in overall score so the next best thing after that is which player won there match.
And there is the fact that most tournaments use it.
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On December 12 2011 21:39 mango_destroyer wrote:
LOL this is too funny. People claiming MC threw games so Stephano can`t advance (huge accusation) and head-to-head suddenly something to dislike despite it being in almost every tournament. I rarely see complaints for that format. This foreigner bias is too much.
I can't wait to see the thread next time if Naniwa gets demolished.
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o.O, i actually thought the results for this Bo1 was pretty damn decent.
i put hero dead last, mvp first and mc, stephano and drg fighting it out. (with drg slightly favored). there was no upsets in my book. only upset would be hero 4-0.
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On December 12 2011 21:35 King.Crimson wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:31 mcmartini wrote:On December 12 2011 21:29 King.Crimson wrote:
I don't like the situation that transpired in the last couple of games. The loser of the first series of the last two games (Mvp - Stephano) is at a clear disadvantage, considering one of the other two players will be qualified based on the former result, and thus not put in 100% effort into their game. Both sets should have been played simultaneously to prevent this. All these comments about players not putting in 100% are ridiculous, more than anything you think MC would try harder seeing as he is living with Stephano at the moment. What if MC and DRG were clanmates and MC had no relation with Stephano. Do you honestly believe DRG wouldn't get the win from MC in that scenario? The system is flawed.
every system has a flaw, big tell however was that MC didnt know who would he faced for 3rd/2nd which logically would make him go his best, its not as bad situation compared to the one when you know that on the 3rd spot was for example jet-lagged mvp, but on 2nd someone much less accomplished
there were much worse situations when someone actually knew which opponent would he be playing or/ helping his teammate advance, this case was nowhere near, system is flawed, but this situation was pretty good handled
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Right on... we do have to voice our opinion because in this case there are so many reasons that we can take into consideration that all lead to the system which is not perfect.
And I am NOT a Stephano fanboy, it just angered me a little that MC had to be put in such a position, in which where he wins and his korean friend does not advance
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On December 12 2011 21:37 King.Crimson wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:35 darkest44 wrote:On December 12 2011 21:29 King.Crimson wrote:
I don't like the situation that transpired in the last couple of games. The loser of the first series of the last two games (Mvp - Stephano) is at a clear disadvantage, considering one of the other two players will be qualified based on the former result, and thus not put in 100% effort into their game. Both sets should have been played simultaneously to prevent this. You gotta be shitting me. First off, MC always tries, because he has a lot of pride (and arrogance) and he hates losing. DRG simply played better, if MC wasn't trying he wouldn't have stayed in the game so damn long try to weasel his way back in. 2nd then 1000 times more people would be screaming and complaining that not every game is cast or cast on the main stream. GOM just can't win, there will always be some entitled whiner on TL who will find something to whine about when their player doesn't win. All i'm saying is play the god damn games at the same time to prevent problems like this. It's not a huge organizational effort. And it's the same procedure in football in the last week of a national league.
No, each player should play each game to win. Every game matters as it should in a Bo1. Playing later in the tournament shouldn't provide anyone with an advantage/disadvantage. If Stephano would have beaten MC, he would have advanced.
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Great first day of a great tournament, I can't wait for tomorow's games !!
GOGOGO NESTEAAAAAA !!!
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On December 12 2011 21:37 King.Crimson wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:35 darkest44 wrote:On December 12 2011 21:29 King.Crimson wrote:
I don't like the situation that transpired in the last couple of games. The loser of the first series of the last two games (Mvp - Stephano) is at a clear disadvantage, considering one of the other two players will be qualified based on the former result, and thus not put in 100% effort into their game. Both sets should have been played simultaneously to prevent this. You gotta be shitting me. First off, MC always tries, because he has a lot of pride (and arrogance) and he hates losing. DRG simply played better, if MC wasn't trying he wouldn't have stayed in the game so damn long try to weasel his way back in. 2nd then 1000 times more people would be screaming and complaining that not every game is cast or cast on the main stream. GOM just can't win, there will always be some entitled whiner on TL who will find something to whine about when their player doesn't win. All i'm saying is play the god damn games at the same time to prevent problems like this. It's not a huge organizational effort. And it's the same procedure in football in the last week of a national league.
Yea great idea, play the games at the same time and ruin the tournament for the viewers who can't, or don't want to, watch em all at once for the 1% chance of this situation arising and someone actually throwing a game (which didn't happen). It's a tv show meant to entertain not cater to your every whim and complaint because your fav player lost, get a grip.
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On December 12 2011 21:26 Reasonable wrote:
I really don't like how one player is chosen over the other with the same score. Head to head? What sport is this concept from? I say let MC play Stephano for the right to advance. That's some joke of a system. Stephano defeated DRG, who bested MC, if my knowledge of algebraic logical operators is correct, Stephano>DRG>MC leads to Stephano>MC. I'm surprised to see this "creativity" in a Korean tournament.
Your knowledge of algebraic logical operator is clearly flawed, because there is no transitivity assumption.
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Should have been a tiebreaker game imo....
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On December 12 2011 07:42 MjoLniRXx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 07:24 chenchen wrote:
People who think that Hero is actually good really need to take a look at his Korean TLPD.
Hero only looks good because Liquid flies him around so he can own up bad foreigners. He's not good compared to Koreans.
I'd argue that he's the worst player in this group. You obviously don't read anything or pay attention to anything meaningful. HerO is great compared to Koreans... Your ignorance is laughable (yes, I am aware that I am a fanboy, but with good reason mind you).
Nope.
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On December 12 2011 21:38 NightOfTheDead wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:35 King.Crimson wrote:On December 12 2011 21:31 mcmartini wrote:On December 12 2011 21:29 King.Crimson wrote:
I don't like the situation that transpired in the last couple of games. The loser of the first series of the last two games (Mvp - Stephano) is at a clear disadvantage, considering one of the other two players will be qualified based on the former result, and thus not put in 100% effort into their game. Both sets should have been played simultaneously to prevent this. All these comments about players not putting in 100% are ridiculous, more than anything you think MC would try harder seeing as he is living with Stephano at the moment. What if MC and DRG were clanmates and MC had no relation with Stephano. Do you honestly believe DRG wouldn't get the win from MC in that scenario? The system is flawed. Stop blaming everyone. Stephano had his games and he missed a chance. Nobody's fault.
I'm not a fan of either Stephano or MC in particular (MVP is my boy), but i'm trying to look at this situation objectively. And it's a flawed one, you don't even need a lot of logic and common sense to realize it. The two players in the last game have an edge over the former two, thanks to the information gained on their result which directly affects their own. Such as MC's freedom of choice to either fight for 2nd place with DRG, or be content with taking 3rd, thus eliminating Stephano. Maybe he fears Stephano in a bo3 or bo5 more than he does DRG and wants him eliminated from the tournament. His motivations can be several.
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On December 12 2011 21:29 Reasonable wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:27 SaoPaulo wrote:On December 12 2011 21:26 Reasonable wrote:
I really don't like how one player is chosen over the other with the same score. Head to head? What sport is this concept from? I say let MC play Stephano for the right to advance. That's some joke of a system. Stephano defeated DRG, who bested MC, if my knowledge of algebraic logical operators is correct, Stephano>DRG>MC leads to Stephano>MC. I'm surprised to see this "creativity" in a Korean tournament. And MC did beat Stephano... But Stephano beat a stronger player than MC, according to overall results. Head to head, damn it! This is mathematically incorrect!
But MC beat Stephano, who is stronger than DRG, and therefor also beat a stronger opponent. Dude, you're going around in a circle. lol
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On December 12 2011 21:39 ahri wrote:
MC went for Phoenixes. I don't remember when he won a game last time doing so.
It looked fair but I am not completely sure he was trying his best.
But, still, it's Stephano's fault anyway and he has noone to blame except himself. He put himself in this position and is out.
lmao wtf? MC wins all the time with stargate. The reason you see him lose so many PvZs in Korea is because GSL apparently has some sort of running gag to give him Dual Sight in literally every PvZ series he plays. Hero also does it all the time. It's safe and gives him map control.
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I don' think MC threw the game, that looked like a whole-heartet effort. There is however something wrong with a system where the players can throw games to favor their chances later in the tournament. But that it's a bad format was clear from before the tournament started. GOM unfortunately dropped the ball when they designed the blizzard cup finals.
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The best solution to me clearly would have been another game between stephano and MC. we get to see more games which is always Good
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On December 12 2011 21:38 Zalithian wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:37 Slike wrote:This tournament would have a lot more potential if the format was better. We re talking about the winners of the most important major tournaments and arguably best players in the world and they re making them play in the horrible , upset heavy format of BO1  Id like to see them play some more and avoid games like MvP vs Hero or DRG vs Stephano. Also , Im not saying that MC threw the game cause thats just retarded , noone would ever not try his hardest in a broadcasted game and especially at this level BUT having a situation where 1 player lose or win has already advanced and holds the faith of other players' tournament life in his hand is also a pretty bad format... You know why Stephano didn't advance? Because he didn't win the games he needed to. Anyone trying to blame this on the format, MC, or DRG is delusional. Stephano is the sole reason he did not advance.
Stop jumping on the bandwagon. Im not a Stephano fanboy and frankly dont care he didnt advance. All Im saying is its a bad format when a player has advanced no matter if he wins or loses and controls the tournament life of other players in a match.
The same way - i forgot the tournament's name - got shat on because they actually let people know who they would meet if they advanced and stephano and bratok(?) prefered to lose and started doing stupid stuff should happen with GSL. This format isnt good...
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On December 12 2011 21:40 Zalithian wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 21:39 mango_destroyer wrote:
LOL this is too funny. People claiming MC threw games so Stephano can`t advance (huge accusation) and head-to-head suddenly something to dislike despite it being in almost every tournament. I rarely see complaints for that format. This foreigner bias is too much. I can't wait to see the thread next time if Naniwa gets demolished.
There are complaints almost everytime a similar situation occurs, most notably at Dreamhack poolplay where people are quite often eliminated while going2-1. I am definitely a Stephano fan, so this is indeed particularly bitter for me, but that does not invalidate the discussion.
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On December 12 2011 21:39 mango_destroyer wrote:
LOL this is too funny. People claiming MC threw games so Stephano can`t advance (huge accusation) and head-to-head suddenly something to dislike despite it being in almost every tournament. I rarely see complaints for that format. This foreigner bias is too much.
I think Stephano is an AMAZING PLAYER and deserves everything he wins. But it's this ridiculous bias and the way his fans react that makes me and others not like his success sometimes and feel that he's overhyped.
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EPT
