EPTAdditionally, to clarify, the Complexity manager was allowed in the booth, accompanied by MLG staff, after the match had started in order to keep the game in motion after a discrepancy with his player that would have impacted the continuation of the game. Moving forward, we will look at rules outlawing any replay views on a tournament PC
MLG Statement on Naniwa vs. Nestea
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments |
MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
Additionally, to clarify, the Complexity manager was allowed in the booth, accompanied by MLG staff, after the match had started in order to keep the game in motion after a discrepancy with his player that would have impacted the continuation of the game. Moving forward, we will look at rules outlawing any replay views on a tournament PC | ||
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sraelgaiznaer
Philippines423 Posts
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Choboo
Sweden2088 Posts
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Fandango
291 Posts
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Nosferatos
Norway783 Posts
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tnud
Sweden2233 Posts
Naniwa interview regarding the match! Watch if you still don't trust him. | ||
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MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:04 Fandango wrote: Where's the investigation into the admin who told Naniwa it was cross positions only then later denied it when it turned out it wasn't? The admin didn't tell him that, I know because I was standing right there. Why wouldn't a player playing in a National Championship know where the spawns were? He chose the map, it is his responsibility to know the intricacies involved. There is responsibility on the players to know the settings they are competing on. The maps were not published the day of the event. | ||
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Seiniyta
Belgium1815 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:04 Fandango wrote: Where's the investigation into the admin who told Naniwa it was cross positions only then later denied it when it turned out it wasn't? To be fair, if a employee makes such a blunder he probably just wants to save his own skin by denying it. It's not nice, but I can see why he did it. Maybe for next time state if it's cross position only in the map name? like MLG Shattered Temple CO (cross-only) ? and NCP (no close positions) so both players and admins can know right away. Now it's a guessing game at times wiht so many versions of a map. | ||
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aderum
Sweden1459 Posts
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:06 MLG_Adam wrote: The admin didn't tell him that, I know because I was standing right there. Why wouldn't a player playing in a National Championship know where the spawns were? He chose the map, it is his responsibility to know the intricacies involved. There is responsibility on the players to know the settings they are competing on. The maps were not published the day of the event. So, you're basically saying he lied for whatever reason to achieve whatever goal? I don't know that this makes any sense and it would seem MLG has more face to save than Naniwa by trying to convince the public that their guy was right, but whatevs. | ||
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Seiniyta
Belgium1815 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:06 MLG_Adam wrote: The admin didn't tell him that, I know because I was standing right there. Why wouldn't a player playing in a National Championship know where the spawns were? He chose the map, it is his responsibility to know the intricacies involved. There is responsibility on the players to know the settings they are competing on. The maps were not published the day of the event. on the site (I haven't checked today) it still stated that Shakuras Plateau was cross map only... (I could have misread too, it was around 3-4 am when I checked that  ) | ||
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MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:08 Seiniyta wrote: on the site (I haven't checked today) it still stated that Shakuras Plateau was cross map only... (I could have misread too, it was around 3-4 am when I checked that ) Link? | ||
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Jiddra
Sweden2685 Posts
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Exarl25
1887 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:00 MLG_Adam wrote: Moving forward, we will look at rules outlawing any replay views on a tournament PC Why? No tournament I know of has any rules against this. I have got absolutely no idea why people assumed MLG did. This has never been an issue before, don't go changing your rules just because /r/starcraft is an idiotic bandwagon. | ||
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MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:08 turamn wrote: So, you're basically saying he lied for whatever reason to achieve whatever goal? I don't know that this makes any sense and it would seem MLG has more face to save than Naniwa by trying to convince the public that their guy was right, but whatevs. I'm not saying anyone lied. I'm saying there was an obvious miscommunication concerning an ambiguous question concerning general map spawns. | ||
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Yonnua
United Kingdom2331 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:08 turamn wrote: So, you're basically saying he lied for whatever reason to achieve whatever goal? I don't know that this makes any sense and it would seem MLG has more face to save than Naniwa by trying to convince the public that their guy was right, but whatevs. Exactly, why would Nani say an admin told him if one didn't? Surely he'd just say "isn't it cross only?" rather than that an admin said it. I reckon some minor official at MLG mistakenly told him and doesn't want to admit to it. | ||
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Tabbris
Bangladesh2839 Posts
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Jiddra
Sweden2685 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:10 MLG_Adam wrote: I'm not saying anyone lied. I'm saying there was an obvious miscommunication concerning an ambiguous question concerning general map spawns. "lost in translation", case closed. Lets watch some epic finals today! | ||
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
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Zalithian
520 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:10 Yonnua wrote: Exactly, why would Nani say an admin told him if one didn't? Surely he'd just say "isn't it cross only?" rather than that an admin said it. I reckon some minor official at MLG mistakenly told him and doesn't want to admit to it. Surely an MLG official would lie to cover their ass, but Naniwa would not lie to cover his. The logic here is astounding. | ||
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Fandango
291 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:06 MLG_Adam wrote: The admin didn't tell him that, I know because I was standing right there. Why wouldn't a player playing in a National Championship know where the spawns were? He chose the map, it is his responsibility to know the intricacies involved. There is responsibility on the players to know the settings they are competing on. The maps were not published the day of the event. Then why is he saying something very different in the above linked video? And you should know that there have been a lot of different versions of Shakura's and even different MLG versions, so no, it's not only the responsibility of the player it's the responsibility of the staff of the tournament to be able to answer a simple question. I wasn't there obviously, but from how Naniwa described it he's pretty clearly referring to a time when it was just him talking to the one admin alone, also why on earth would he pause the game after being told that it wasn't cross positions only? Why would he scout that direction to begin with? You're painting a picture and it aint pretty kid and I don't like the look of it. Not one bit. | ||
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aderum
Sweden1459 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:11 Tabbris wrote: Reddit Over reacting again -.- Hmm if you look at the LR-thread here on TL its just as bad. So dont just blame reddit for this. | ||
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l16
Canada6 Posts
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kmkg
Japan186 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:09 Exarl25 wrote: Why? No tournament I know of has any rules against this. I have got absolutely no idea why people assumed MLG did. This has never been an issue before, don't go changing your rules just because /r/starcraft is an idiotic bandwagon. GSL forbids every kind of replay watching in between matches. | ||
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thee telescopes
321 Posts
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mapthesoul
Trinidad/Tobago429 Posts
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rareh
Portugal298 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:06 MLG_Adam wrote: The admin didn't tell him that, I know because I was standing right there. Why wouldn't a player playing in a National Championship know where the spawns were? He chose the map, it is his responsibility to know the intricacies involved. There is responsibility on the players to know the settings they are competing on. The maps were not published the day of the event. This is extremely low from mlg, telling that a player lied just to make themselves look good. You guys obviously deserved the comment from naniwa where he gives his opinion about the tournament. | ||
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andis35
Latvia346 Posts
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stork4ever
United States1036 Posts
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Xkalibert
United States1404 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:14 andis35 wrote: http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/mlg-starcraft-2-map-pool Orlando - MLG Shattered Temple has been updated to Blizzard version 1.3. There are still no close spawns allowed. Providence - No changes from Orlando. edit: i was wrong | ||
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Seiniyta
Belgium1815 Posts
Just checked again, and yeah I was wrong , forgot to scroll down the page to see the changelist :p ( http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/mlg-starcraft-2-map-pool ) Sorry! | ||
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Notdefect
United States14 Posts
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Yonnua
United Kingdom2331 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:12 Zalithian wrote: Surely an MLG official would lie to cover their ass, but Naniwa would not lie to cover his. The logic here is astounding. But why would Naniwa tell a lie so easily disproven, when he could easily say something far more convincing? Some MLG official who only worked Dallas assumes that it's only cross spawn and tells Naniwa it's only cross spawn. He calls them out on it and there's nothing they can do but say the conversation never happened. | ||
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dooraven
Australia2820 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:14 andis35 wrote: http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/mlg-starcraft-2-map-pool Orlando - MLG Shattered Temple has been updated to Blizzard version 1.3. There are still no close spawns allowed. Providence - No changes from Orlando. Shattered is not Shakuras lol | ||
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Exarl25
1887 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:12 kmkg wrote: GSL forbids every kind of replay watching in between matches. Source? http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/news/64582 I see nothing in the rules here. | ||
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MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
Thanks for the support and discussion around the issue. | ||
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aderum
Sweden1459 Posts
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pPingu
Switzerland2892 Posts
Starting spawns on Shakuras Plateau have been modified to ensure cross-map spawns only. It's the last sentence of http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/mlg-starcraft-2-map-pool edit: anyways, I think the most important part is solved, can't we just forget the rest and enjoy the tournament? edit2: shakuras has been modified later, I just quoted this because it was really missleading | ||
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Tabbris
Bangladesh2839 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:18 pPingu wrote: It's the last sentence of http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/mlg-starcraft-2-map-pool edit: anyways, I think the most important part is solved, can't we just forget the rest and enjoy the tournament? Oh shit...... | ||
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HuKPOWA
United States1604 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:18 pPingu wrote: It's the last sentence of http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/mlg-starcraft-2-map-pool edit: anyways, I think the most important part is solved, can't we just forget the rest and enjoy the tournament? MLG_Adam...READ THIS! <3 So u should probably change it on ur site if what ur saying is "LAWL he should have knew the spawn locations!" Whether an admin told him or he read it here there was a fault in the rules | ||
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alpsi
Finland437 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:18 pPingu wrote: It's the last sentence of http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/mlg-starcraft-2-map-pool edit: anyways, I think the most important part is solved, can't we just forget the rest and enjoy the tournament? nvm | ||
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[17]Purple
United Kingdom3489 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:18 pPingu wrote: It's the last sentence of http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/mlg-starcraft-2-map-pool edit: anyways, I think the most important part is solved, can't we just forget the rest and enjoy the tournament? That page should really be just what changes the MLG maps had, not multiple renderations over the entire season because that WILL confuse people. | ||
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Notdefect
United States14 Posts
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MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
Changes Made between Dallas and Columbus: MLG Crossfire has been removed MLG Scrap Station has been removed MLG Tal’darim Altar has been added MLG Typhon Peaks has been added Building Blockers have been replaced with Neutral Lowered Supply Depots on all Maps On MLG Typhon Peaks, Neutral Lowered Supply Depots have been added to the bottom of base ramps MLG Shakuras Plateau has been updated to Blizzard version 1.5, and spawn locations will be identical to those allowed by Blizzard. MLG Shattered Temple has been updated to Blizzard version 1.3. There are still no close spawns allowed. The following modifications were made to MLG Testbug: Bases enlarged for more building space Added doodads in front of the Natural choke to tighten the area around rocks Replaced gaps in the middle with high ground Modifications originally made to the maps used at MLG Dallas: *A building blocker has been added to the ramps of each of the starred maps, at each ramp closest to the main's natural expansion. This blocker prevents the ramp from being blocked by the current standard amount of buildings (e.g., three pylons, two bunkers, etc.). Examples: Metalopolis, Shakuras Plateau, Testbug, Xel'Naga Caverns. Starting spawns on Metalopolis and Shattered Temple have been modified to prevent close ground spawns. Starting spawns on Shakuras Plateau have been modified to ensure cross-map spawns only. | ||
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Daedra
United States268 Posts
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MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:19 HuKPOWA wrote: MLG_Adam...READ THIS! <3 So u should probably change it on ur site if what ur saying is "LAWL he should have knew the spawn locations!" Whether an admin told him or he read it here there was a fault in the rules You realize that is a change log? | ||
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dooraven
Australia2820 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:17 MLG_Adam wrote: Enjoy the rest of the tournament. We are doing our best. Thanks for the support and discussion around the issue. While we're on this, why are you guys preventing players from going to the toilet before a match? It's not the first time this has happened Thorzain has also complained about it, what is the reasoning for preventing players from toilet breaks. | ||
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[17]Purple
United Kingdom3489 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:20 MLG_Adam wrote: Changes Made between Dallas and Columbus: MLG Crossfire has been removed MLG Scrap Station has been removed MLG Tal’darim Altar has been added MLG Typhon Peaks has been added Building Blockers have been replaced with Neutral Lowered Supply Depots on all Maps On MLG Typhon Peaks, Neutral Lowered Supply Depots have been added to the bottom of base ramps MLG Shakuras Plateau has been updated to Blizzard version 1.5, and spawn locations will be identical to those allowed by Blizzard. MLG Shattered Temple has been updated to Blizzard version 1.3. There are still no close spawns allowed. The following modifications were made to MLG Testbug: Bases enlarged for more building space Added doodads in front of the Natural choke to tighten the area around rocks Replaced gaps in the middle with high ground Modifications originally made to the maps used at MLG Dallas: *A building blocker has been added to the ramps of each of the starred maps, at each ramp closest to the main's natural expansion. This blocker prevents the ramp from being blocked by the current standard amount of buildings (e.g., three pylons, two bunkers, etc.). Examples: Metalopolis, Shakuras Plateau, Testbug, Xel'Naga Caverns. Starting spawns on Metalopolis and Shattered Temple have been modified to prevent close ground spawns. Starting spawns on Shakuras Plateau have been modified to ensure cross-map spawns only. The page still appears confusing and should only have what maps are in the pool and what the changes were, not an entire changelog throughout the season. | ||
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pPingu
Switzerland2892 Posts
I think we saw it, but it is really missleading | ||
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Lakai
Canada315 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:18 pPingu wrote: It's the last sentence of http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/mlg-starcraft-2-map-pool edit: anyways, I think the most important part is solved, can't we just forget the rest and enjoy the tournament? That was for MLG Dallas. There are more recent changes on that page. MLG Shakuras Plateau has been updated to Blizzard version 1.5, and spawn locations will be identical to those allowed by Blizzard. | ||
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:18 pPingu wrote: It's the last sentence of http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/mlg-starcraft-2-map-pool edit: anyways, I think the most important part is solved, can't we just forget the rest and enjoy the tournament? That was for dallas If you read the whole page you'll see that they changed it again | ||
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shockaslim
United States1104 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:14 andis35 wrote: http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/mlg-starcraft-2-map-pool Orlando - MLG Shattered Temple has been updated to Blizzard version 1.3. There are still no close spawns allowed. Providence - No changes from Orlando. Still wrong on Shakuras Plateau though. It says that it has been modified to allow for the same positions that Blizzard allows. + Show Spoiler + Changes from the Raleigh Map Pool: MLG Testbug removed MLG Antiga Shipyard added MLG Metalopolis MLG Shakuras Plateau MLG Shattered Temple MLG Tal’darim Altar MLG Antiga Shipyard MLG Dual Sight MLG Xel’Naga Caverns Changes made to the MLG version of Antiga Shipyard: Terrain between Main Bases and 2nd Expansion has been modified to prevent Siege Tanks from hitting the geysers. Terrain at the bottom right corner has been modified to prevent pylon warp-ins at the Expansion. Neutral supply depots have been added to the bottom of each Main Base ramp, identically to how this is done on other MLG maps. MLG Dual Sight is identical to the version used in the GSL. The rest of the maps are identical to the versions used at MLG Columbus. The MLG map pool on Battle.net has been updated; to access this map pool, including the non-ladder maps, simply search for "MLG" on the StarCraft 2 map selection screen. Changes Made between Dallas and Columbus: MLG Crossfire has been removed MLG Scrap Station has been removed MLG Tal’darim Altar has been added MLG Typhon Peaks has been added Building Blockers have been replaced with Neutral Lowered Supply Depots on all Maps On MLG Typhon Peaks, Neutral Lowered Supply Depots have been added to the bottom of base ramps MLG Shakuras Plateau has been updated to Blizzard version 1.5, and spawn locations will be identical to those allowed by Blizzard. MLG Shattered Temple has been updated to Blizzard version 1.3. There are still no close spawns allowed. The following modifications were made to MLG Testbug: Bases enlarged for more building space Added doodads in front of the Natural choke to tighten the area around rocks Replaced gaps in the middle with high ground Modifications originally made to the maps used at MLG Dallas: *A building blocker has been added to the ramps of each of the starred maps, at each ramp closest to the main's natural expansion. This blocker prevents the ramp from being blocked by the current standard amount of buildings (e.g., three pylons, two bunkers, etc.). Examples: Metalopolis, Shakuras Plateau, Testbug, Xel'Naga Caverns. Starting spawns on Metalopolis and Shattered Temple have been modified to prevent close ground spawns. Starting spawns on Shakuras Plateau have been modified to ensure cross-map spawns only. I am presuming that they made it cross map at Dallas only to mitigate the damage from the backdoor rocks that Shakuras previously had. It has changed since then. | ||
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Chanted
Norway1001 Posts
I feel like this doesnt really matter that much, and I want to enjoy the rest of the tournement. Nonkoreans fighting ! | ||
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MVTaylor
United Kingdom2893 Posts
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jlake02
United States395 Posts
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Moksu
Finland9 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:06 MLG_Adam wrote: The admin didn't tell him that, I know because I was standing right there. . Of course you where there.. one big happy family... | ||
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taishiro
51 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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[17]Purple
United Kingdom3489 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:28 taishiro wrote: The funny part is that no matter what happens, and no matter what people think about this. Naniwa is still a bad player lol Yes, taking out Nestea and MvP in Bo3 makes you a really bad player. | ||
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Fandango
291 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:23 Chanted wrote: I feel like people should not only consider 2 options, but a third one. 1Maybe Naniwa lied, 2 maybe the admin lied, or 3: Miscommunication. Maybe one of them thought they answered something differently, or something was misheard during that conversation. I feel like this doesnt really matter that much, and I want to enjoy the rest of the tournement. Nonkoreans fighting ! You forgot 4: A grand conspiracy perpetrated by the MLG admin staff to devalue the Swedish Krona by undermining Naniwa and through a number of other steps that have yet to be revealed, resulting in the collapse of the swedish government and therefore allowing MLG to buy sweden using secret investment funds obtained from anonymous parties originating in Macau. Sure it sounds crazy, what conspiracy story doesn't, but ask yourself this: When was the last time Sundance of MLG_Adam denied this rumour? Why haven't they addressed it? What exactly are they hiding behind the Hot Pockets curtain? | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5595 Posts
the Complexity manager was allowed in the booth, accompanied by MLG staff This makes a huge difference! It was not well handled, sure, but it is not that bad either. | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:28 taishiro wrote: The funny part is that no matter what happens, and no matter what people think about this. Naniwa is still a bad player lol Whatever happens, you are still a bad poster | ||
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Thrill
2599 Posts
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Gyoza
Sweden45 Posts
I think you (Seiniyta) read the map pool for MLG Dallas, where shakuras indeed had forced cross spawn. Shakuras was updated in time for MLG Orlando though and haven't changed since. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/mlg-starcraft-2-map-pool | ||
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Kuni
Austria765 Posts
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Nifiel
Sweden54 Posts
Maybe just a list of the current maps each with information regarding which version it is would be better and less confusing than a cangelog. | ||
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sekritzzz
1515 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:28 taishiro wrote: The funny part is that no matter what happens, and no matter what people think about this. Naniwa is still a bad player lol Do you even watch Starcraft? We are not talking about the naniwa from hello kitty online. | ||
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Seiniyta
Belgium1815 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:33 Brainless Mike wrote: I think you (Seiniyta) read the map pool for MLG Dallas, where shakuras indeed had forced cross spawn. Shakuras was updated in time for MLG Orlando though and haven't changed since. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/mlg-starcraft-2-map-pool I did and already stated I was wrong I was tired and just looked it up whilst waiting for the third game to start. Though yeah, seeing how much confusion there is it might be best to make a seperate page for every event (or just change the page to reflect the current/upcoming event) So there can't be really any confusion/misreads. Even though MLG isn't at fault (a changelog is fine really) it might make it clearer and not as easy to misread | ||
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TBO
Germany1350 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:00 MLG_Adam wrote: After extensive investigation, review of the video files and 2011 Pro Circuit rules, we have determined that the replay had no impact on the tournament flow or the match results. Build orders are displayed at the end of a match on the stats screen. So the replay that was viewed would have revealed nothing the match stats page would not have revealed otherwise. Additionally, to clarify, the Complexity manager was allowed in the booth, accompanied by MLG staff, after the match had started in order to keep the game in motion after a discrepancy with his player that would have impacted the continuation of the game. Moving forward, we will look at rules outlawing any replay views on a tournament PC in future you should still either a) have someone at / near the booth to make sure players don't look at the stats screeen b) use map versions which don't show the build order Furthermore, the replay very much shows information, not available in the stats screen: the position of the hatchery, It could have been a sneaky expansion or a proxy hatch - granted very unlikely but a possibility. | ||
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Kiyo.
United States2284 Posts
@MLGRyan Ryan Moore Naniwa and Nestea are in the player area talking; they seem to be on good terms. #MLG Now the drama can end. | ||
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MVTaylor
United Kingdom2893 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:34 Nifiel wrote: Maybe just a list of the current maps each with information regarding which version it is would be better and less confusing than a cangelog. It really, REALLY isn't hard to read... I don't see how anyone reading that properly can be in any confusion. There were some settings at Dallas, they got changed for Orlando and the rules for Providence and the same as Orlando. | ||
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werynais
Germany1780 Posts
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:10 MLG_Adam wrote: I'm not saying anyone lied. I'm saying there was an obvious miscommunication concerning an ambiguous question concerning general map spawns. If you say your admin didn't say that, then you're implying naniwa lied. It's not a hard conclusion to draw. | ||
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Thrill
2599 Posts
Ryan is seriously the guy who's gonna make the world work again after we've destroyed it with WMD's. Or just stop the next Cuban missile crisis. Just. | ||
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zaii
Guam2611 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:41 TBO wrote: in future you should still either a) have someone at / near the booth to make sure players don't look at the stats screeen b) use map versions which don't show the build order Aside from that may I ask why there was a regame at all? I don't quite see how naniwa not doing anything ingame after hosting the game himself qualifies as reason to restart the game. If you allow him to do that, everyone can do that in future: Start the game, do nothing, force a restart, look at opening build order, get an advantage. They regamed after Naniwa paused to use the restroom, and Naniwa said the casters couldn't see the game. When Naniwa hosted the regame, for some reason it wasn't cross position, Seems to be a hosting blunder on his part. but enough of this, Can we all just enjoy the GAIMEZ? | ||
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RockIronrod
Australia1369 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:28 Moksu wrote: Of course you where there.. one big happy family... I don't know why on earth you'd trust the guy who got kicked out of a dozen teams and his own house for being an asshole over the administrators of one of the most respected E-sports organisations. Other than blind fanboyism, that is. User was warned for this post | ||
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zaii
Guam2611 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:50 RockIronrod wrote: I don't know why on earth you'd trust the guy who got kicked out of a dozen teams and his own house for being an asshole over the administrators of one of the most respected E-sports organisations. Other than blind fanboyism, that is. Also MLGAdam is Senior Vice President, League Operations and Production, If you can't trust someone like him then the league is fucked. | ||
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Corrupted
United States1255 Posts
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Quakie
Norway725 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:41 TBO wrote: in future you should still either a) have someone at / near the booth to make sure players don't look at the stats screeen b) use map versions which don't show the build order Furthermore, the replay very much shows information, not available in the stats screen: the position of the hatchery, It could have been a sneaky expansion or a proxy hatch - granted very unlikely but a possibility. Why shouldn't it be allowed to look at the stats-screen after the match? Is that a common rule? Oh, nvm, is it a commong thing to have maps that don't show the BO? I also think that the admins should host to avoid these cases. | ||
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Fishriot
United States621 Posts
You realize that if a bunch of native English speakers are confused by the wording on your site, that someone who has English as a second language may also be confused? Trying to place blame on Naniwa for this issue is pathetic. | ||
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Emporio
United States3069 Posts
In any case, the game is done and theres really nothing we can do at this point so we might as well stop looking for people to blame since that really doesn't solve anything. There is going to be no punishments or retribution so no point to the drama. | ||
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awwnuts07
United States621 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:11 Tabbris wrote: Reddit Over reacting again -.- Reddit cracks me up. They take affronts to their favorite players sooooo seriously. It's like "How DARE you say bad things about Nestea!!! We're like the bestest friends evar even though we've never met!!" I wonder if Naniwa needs a rivalry to play his best? | ||
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RockIronrod
Australia1369 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:54 Fishriot wrote: You realize that if a bunch of native English speakers are confused by the wording on your site, that someone who has English as a second language may also be confused? Trying to place blame on Naniwa for this issue is pathetic. It clearly states "change log". There is no confusion over wording, only people trying to bend the page to suit their argument and illiterates. | ||
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Swampsteel
United States94 Posts
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Fandango
291 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:52 zaii wrote: Also MLGAdam is Senior Vice President, League Operations and Production, If you can't trust someone like him then the league is fucked. You guys are so cute and naive, doing exactly what they counted on, who would ever believe the tarnished progamer from sweden over the clean cut american capitalist heroes of MLG? What possible reason could a higher up in an organisation that runs tournaments which have had significant administration issues over the years (including in the SC2 era with incidents like the white-ra scheduling and thorzain's various issues), have for trying to downplay any mistakes the administration staff have made? But the jig is up, the cat has left the caboodle and the horse has bolted, we all know the truth now and the only way to stop them from their hostile takeover of sweden is to publically undermine them in teamliquid threads. | ||
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RockIronrod
Australia1369 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:56 awwnuts07 wrote: Reddit cracks me up. They take affronts to their favorite players sooooo seriously. It's like "How DARE you say bad things about Nestea!!! We're like the bestest friends evar even though we've never met!!" I wonder if Naniwa needs a rivalry to play his best? Right, if someone implies that Naniwa, confirmed asshole from all his former team mates and parents, is using "you're an idiot" in an assholish manner, you're justified in saying that that someone is dead wrong and should never dare to slander Naniwa, but if someone says "hey, calling Nestea an idiot isn't cool" we're obviously blind fanboys. | ||
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MVTaylor
United Kingdom2893 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:54 Fishriot wrote: You realize that if a bunch of native English speakers are confused by the wording on your site, that someone who has English as a second language may also be confused? Trying to place blame on Naniwa for this issue is pathetic. How is it hard? You go to the MLG website, click procircuit then select providence from the competitions drop down. You then get a side bar where you select starcraft ii as the game and then maps and settings where it states no changes have been made from orlando and a link showing you the map settings from orlando. it really, REALLY isn't hard and I'm shocked by the number of people in this thread that can't understand this. tens of tournaments are organised every week with specific map settings and players take it upon themselves to know what they are doing even if the top prize is $50 so saying that neither naniwa or complexity could be bothered to check in a $50k tournament is unreal | ||
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lipebra
Brazil130 Posts
1- Thanks MLG for go out and say their version of it. No one wants the tornament to be a huge sucess more than they want. 2- Now they learn that with 150.000 on the line people do whatever to win, include some not fair things. Next MLG, no replays watching and no people in the booth..... i thing that basics. | ||
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zaii
Guam2611 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:59 Fandango wrote: You guys are so cute and naive, doing exactly what they counted on, who would ever believe the tarnished progamer from sweden over the clean cut american capitalist heroes of MLG? What possible reason could a higher up in an organisation that runs tournaments which have had significant administration issues over the years (including in the SC2 era with incidents like the white-ra scheduling and thorzain's various issues), have for trying to downplay any mistakes the administration staff have made? But the jig is up, the cat has left the caboodle and the horse has bolted, we all know the truth now and the only way to stop them from their hostile takeover of sweden is to publically undermine them in teamliquid threads. lmao, I'll have whatever you're smoking plz. | ||
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daliLlama
Sweden25 Posts
And for people saying that it isnt hard to read, sure i agree. Then again i have a pretty good grasp of the english language, are you sure everyone does? And if you have to ask if they realize its a change log; Then there probably is potential for confusion there. Dont you think MLG_Adam? Also, why are players hosting the maps at all? | ||
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RockIronrod
Australia1369 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:59 Fandango wrote: You guys are so cute and naive, doing exactly what they counted on, who would ever believe the tarnished progamer from sweden over the clean cut american capitalist heroes of MLG? What possible reason could a higher up in an organisation that runs tournaments which have had significant administration issues over the years (including in the SC2 era with incidents like the white-ra scheduling and thorzain's various issues), have for trying to downplay any mistakes the administration staff have made. But the jig is up, the cat has left the caboodle and the horse has bolted, we all know the truth now and the only way to stop them from their hostile takeover of sweden is to publically undermine them in teamliquid threads. I know, I mean, how DARE we trust the trustworthy people, and not the guy who stirs up so much shit no one can stand them on his team. Though, why would I expect logic from someone who insults MLG with "american capitalist"? Shouldn't you be down at the Occupy Starbucks movement, Che? | ||
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ikona
Poland47 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:06 MLG_Adam wrote: The admin didn't tell him that, I know because I was standing right there. Why wouldn't a player playing in a National Championship know where the spawns were? He chose the map, it is his responsibility to know the intricacies involved. There is responsibility on the players to know the settings they are competing on. The maps were not published the day of the event. I'm going to play devils advocate here because i took the time to look it up on your website when the controversy hit. And to be honest i was quite amazed how inconclusive rules on this page are: http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/mlg-starcraft-2-map-pool Either there is something hard to understand there or it leaves room to 2 different interpretations. Blizzard spawns or cross pos only. Also i believe its MLG's resposibility to have clear and easy to follow ruleset which is displayed somewhere for everyone to see. So while its obvious Naniwa has some issues to work out, i think you should tone down your response which might be viewed as a bit arrogant. | ||
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Archas
United States6531 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:59 Fandango wrote: You guys are so cute and naive, doing exactly what they counted on, who would ever believe the tarnished progamer from sweden over the clean cut american capitalist heroes of MLG? What possible reason could a higher up in an organisation that runs tournaments which have had significant administration issues over the years (including in the SC2 era with incidents like the white-ra scheduling and thorzain's various issues), have for trying to downplay any mistakes the administration staff have made? But the jig is up, the cat has left the caboodle and the horse has bolted, we all know the truth now and the only way to stop them from their hostile takeover of sweden is to publically undermine them in teamliquid threads. That, or you're taking an incident that has already been resolved and trying to morph it into some weird, boundless conspiracy theory. What the fuck kind of point are you trying to make with that "clean cut American capitalist heroes" statement, anyway? All you're doing is trying your best to find a bad guy responsible for an issue that can be chalked up to nothing more than miscommunication. Get your conspiratorial bullshit out of the thread. Yeah, this whole thing was a mistake, but mistakes happen, especially in huge tournaments like MLG. That doesn't mean there's a villain here. None of us are interested in your Chicken Little fantasies. | ||
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lolsixtynine
United States600 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:12 aderum wrote: Hmm if you look at the LR-thread here on TL its just as bad. So dont just blame reddit for this. I was at the live event, and a lot of people were confused/upset that he looked at the replay between matches too. | ||
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zaii
Guam2611 Posts
On November 21 2011 02:07 lolsixtynine wrote: I was at the live event, and a lot of people were confused/upset that he looked at the replay between matches too. Damn Reddit and the live audience for being so biased. | ||
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
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RockIronrod
Australia1369 Posts
On November 21 2011 02:06 ikona wrote: I'm going to play devils advocate here because i took the time to look it up on your website when the controversy hit. And to be honest i was quite amazed how inconclusive rules on this page are: http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/mlg-starcraft-2-map-pool Either there is something hard to understand there or it leaves room to 2 different interpretations. Blizzard spawns or cross pos only. Also i believe its MLG's resposibility to have clear and easy to follow ruleset which is displayed somewhere for everyone to see. So while its obvious Naniwa has some issues to work out, i think you should tone down your response which might be viewed as a bit arrogant. That is the change log. The providence map pools are on the bar, right next to the log. This is like going to wikipedia, looking at the page furthest down the history page and complaining that Pluto is still a planet. | ||
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MVTaylor
United Kingdom2893 Posts
Oh my | ||
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DoLookMoreLike
155 Posts
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Fandango
291 Posts
On November 21 2011 02:07 Aeres wrote: That, or you're taking an incident that has already been resolved and trying to morph it into some weird, boundless conspiracy theory. What the fuck kind of point are you trying to make with that "clean cut American capitalist heroes" statement, anyway? All you're doing is trying your best to find a bad guy responsible for an issue that can be chalked up to nothing more than miscommunication. Get your conspiratorial bullshit out of the thread. Yeah, this whole thing was a mistake, but mistakes happen, especially in huge tournaments like MLG. That doesn't mean there's a villain here. None of us are interested in your Chicken Little fantasies. Are you that guy at the party who never wants to dance or play any (non-video) games? Like the one who when people are talking about music has to chime in about how band X is just a poor imitation of band Y? Do you judge other people for enjoying things that you find below you and chastise them for it? Well I am. | ||
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daliLlama
Sweden25 Posts
If you read the change log you understand that its a change log, would still be simpler and more clear if it wasnt a change log but just the current versions of the maps. So why not do that? Also why not rename the maps with some sort of simple tag that lets you know what kind of spawns are open? Do everything to prevent missunderstandings and mistakes like these. They ARE killing esports you know. | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
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RockIronrod
Australia1369 Posts
On November 21 2011 02:17 daliLlama wrote: If option 1 is easy and option 2 is easier. Why stick with option 1? If you read the change log you understand that its a change log, would still be simpler and more clear if it wasnt a change log but just the current versions of the maps. So why not do that? Also why not rename the maps with some sort of simple tag that lets you know what kind of spawns are open? Do everything to prevent missunderstandings and mistakes like these. They ARE killing esports you know. Or they could go the right page. The one titled "MLG Providence map pool." Going to the right place is pretty clear and simple. | ||
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Kentakky
Sweden1272 Posts
WHO'S NESTEA?!? SOME KOREAN OLD GEEZER NNPNP NANI AND SWEDEN HERE TO STOP HIM YEH BOIIIIIIII GG EZPZ. Even InControl liked your play on Shakuras mothafucking INCONTROL liked your game, hell yeah you show em Nani! | ||
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Crig
France18 Posts
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daliLlama
Sweden25 Posts
Again, why not make it as simple as possible? Are you actually disagreeing with that statement? | ||
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MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
Thanks a lot Reddit. | ||
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RockIronrod
Australia1369 Posts
On November 21 2011 02:21 Kentakky wrote: Go Naniwa! Win this joke tournaments like npnp, GO SWEDEN! MLG Obviously anti sweden and anti naniwa shut the haters down nani yeeyeyyeye. WHO'S NESTEA?!? SOME KOREAN OLD GEEZER NNPNP NANI AND SWEDEN HERE TO STOP HIM YEH BOIIIIIIII GG EZPZ. Even InControl liked your play on Shakuras mothafucking INCONTROL liked your game, hell yeah you show em Nani! Jesus, I can't tell if you're trolling or genuinely do have a victims complex. | ||
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diophan
United States1018 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:09 Exarl25 wrote: Why? No tournament I know of has any rules against this. I have got absolutely no idea why people assumed MLG did. This has never been an issue before, don't go changing your rules just because /r/starcraft is an idiotic bandwagon. GSL and IPL? | ||
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MVTaylor
United Kingdom2893 Posts
On November 21 2011 02:21 daliLlama wrote: Apparently not, since they didnt? Again, why not make it as simple as possible? Are you actually disagreeing with that statement? It's pretty obvious unless you have no grasp of the english language, I doubt MLG felt the need to change it as no one other than Naniwa has had a problem up until now. As I stated there are loads of tournaments every week, many with far lower prize pools and far harder to understand map rules which are followed correctly. The fact that between them Naniwa and Complexity can't read a webpage hen it comes to a $50k tournament is... poor | ||
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RockIronrod
Australia1369 Posts
On November 21 2011 02:21 daliLlama wrote: Apparently not, since they didnt? Again, why not make it as simple as possible? Are you actually disagreeing with that statement? If you read a map wrong you may blame the map for not being simple enough. If you read the wrong, clearly titled, map, well that's your own fault. | ||
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daliLlama
Sweden25 Posts
On November 21 2011 02:23 MLG_Adam wrote: MLG's plans of impending invasion of Sweden have been thoroughly spoiled. Thanks a lot Reddit. I for one would welcome our new MLG overlords. But seriously, you do see how some people have been confused by the change log business? So maybe it isnt that clear and might need some change? | ||
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MVTaylor
United Kingdom2893 Posts
On November 21 2011 02:23 MLG_Adam wrote: MLG's plans of impending invasion of Sweden have been thoroughly spoiled. Thanks a lot Reddit. Hahaha, at least MLG Stockholm is slightly easier for me to attend next year | ||
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diophan
United States1018 Posts
On November 21 2011 02:26 daliLlama wrote: I for one would welcome our new MLG overlords. But seriously, you do see how some people have been confused by the change log business? So maybe it isnt that clear and might need some change? How do people who play a computer game not know what a changelog is? | ||
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MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
On November 21 2011 02:26 daliLlama wrote: I for one would welcome our new MLG overlords. Our regime will be harsh, but fair. Chairs shall be outlawed...unless you're a VIP or media. | ||
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daliLlama
Sweden25 Posts
And i would think that the larger the tournament and prize pool, the more clear things ought to be? | ||
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RockIronrod
Australia1369 Posts
On November 21 2011 02:29 daliLlama wrote: I still dont understand your point of view; If you CAN make something simpler to prevent mistakes, why not do it? And i would think that the larger the tournament and prize pool, the more clear things ought to be? Because it doesn't need to be simplified, and the changelog page is actually rather important? | ||
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vilg
Denmark413 Posts
For anyone who doesn't struggle keeping his saliva contained in his mouth it was glaringly obvious what naniwa meant in the idiot-interview, that the comment was directed towards nesteas build and not the person himself, but due to some negative Reddit posts and a community filled with ill informed drama mongers, this suddenly was a PR problem for coL and something MLG has to spend time elaborating on instead of it just being handled behind the scenes as it should, considering it was a non-issue at best. I feel shit like this takes a lot away from an otherwise cool tournament. | ||
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MVTaylor
United Kingdom2893 Posts
On November 21 2011 02:29 daliLlama wrote: I still dont understand your point of view; If you CAN make something simpler to prevent mistakes, why not do it? And i would think that the larger the tournament and prize pool, the more clear things ought to be? Because literally NO ONE had a problem understanding that webapge until naniwa so they saw no need to change it as every other competitor in every other MLG had managed to understand the rules? Why would they change the webpage from yesterday to today? They might change it before the first 2012 event, let's call it naniwa's law | ||
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daliLlama
Sweden25 Posts
Why is the change log importat though? | ||
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RockIronrod
Australia1369 Posts
On November 21 2011 02:31 vilg wrote: It's been embarrassing to be a part of the community the past 24 hours, as there apparently are people who will do anything to create behind the scenes drama. I think MLG and other tournaments should consider not advertising to participate in Reddit "discussion", considering what their "community" brings to the table is nothing but stupidity that fosters more stupidity. If what MLG wants is to create new fans, directing them to Reddit where the majority seemingly have an incredible low understanding of the game and a incredible lust for TMZ-style drama is not optimal, I imagine. For anyone who doesn't struggle keeping his saliva contained in his mouth it was glaringly obvious what naniwa meant in the idiot-interview, that the comment was directed towards nesteas build and not the person himself, but due to some negative Reddit posts and a community filled with ill informed drama mongers, this suddenly was a PR problem for coL and something MLG has to spend time elaborating on instead of it just being handled behind the scenes as it should, considering it was a non-issue at best. I feel shit like this takes a lot away from an otherwise cool tournament. From a guy who BM'd his way out of a dozen teams and his own household, "but he's just an idiot" can be taken as insulting rather easily. | ||
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MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
Can we stop with the change log nonsense and discuss impending occupation of a foreign nation? | ||
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RockIronrod
Australia1369 Posts
On November 21 2011 02:33 daliLlama wrote: Ok, i guess we just dont se things the same way and there isnt much we can do about that i guess so GG. Why is the change log importat though? You don't think that a specific outlining of all the changes over time to the map pool is important? | ||
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daliLlama
Sweden25 Posts
On November 21 2011 02:33 mvtaylor wrote: Because literally NO ONE had a problem understanding that webapge until naniwa so they saw no need to change it as every other competitor in every other MLG had managed to understand the rules? Why would they change the webpage from yesterday to today? They might change it before the first 2012 event, let's call it naniwa's law Yeah, im not saying its a HUGE deal, im just confused about the people defending things being more confusing than they need to be. (Even if they arent very confusing at all to begin with) So please understand that i am not mad and on the MLG conspiracy bandwagon. Also are you sure there hasnt been more confusion? We get to se maybe 5% of all the games in the tour so might be more open bracket confusion. Just saying. And yes, im not DEMANDING and IMMEDIATE change (!!), its just something to think about for the future to avoid this sort of completely pointless drama. | ||
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daliLlama
Sweden25 Posts
On November 21 2011 02:36 RockIronrod wrote: You don't think that a specific outlining of all the changes over time to the map pool is important? Im not trying to make a point, im actually asking. Why is it important? But no, i dont really think its important, unless im just missing something? | ||
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diophan
United States1018 Posts
On November 21 2011 02:41 daliLlama wrote: Im not trying to make a point, im actually asking. Why is it important? But no, i dont really think its important, unless im just missing something? Watching people's replays where their build seems silly from a couple MLGs ago but you realize they had it specifically for cross positions Shakuras, or if you're confused why someone is scouting a certain way and trying to figure out why, and then you look at the changelog and realize only certain spawns were possible. Plus it's of general interest to see the evolution of the map pool. Plus basically everything related to software includes a changelog somewhere. | ||
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daliLlama
Sweden25 Posts
On November 21 2011 02:43 diophan wrote: Watching people's replays where their build seems silly from a couple MLGs ago but you realize they had it specifically for cross positions Shakuras, or if you're confused why someone is scouting a certain way and trying to figure out why, and then you look at the changelog and realize only certain spawns were possible. Plus it's of general interest to see the evolution of the map pool. Plus basically everything related to software includes a changelog somewhere. Yeah, good point. I can see that being important actually. | ||
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Lavi
Bangladesh793 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:12 kmkg wrote: GSL forbids every kind of replay watching in between matches. I heard IPL also... anyways thanks adam & MLG for the clarification. as said after the first stop the build over is shown anyways on score screen anyways (blizzard UI problem for tournaments) , should of just re-game on a different map in that type of situation if you want to be totally fair across the board. | ||
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Fandango
291 Posts
On November 21 2011 02:36 MLG_Adam wrote: By the way, anyone with MLG rank points will be drafted into our invasion militia. Can we stop with the change log nonsense and discuss impending occupation of a foreign nation? Ha, trying to divert attention from the actual drama in order to focus on some crackpot's bizarre conspiracy theory? Well played MLG, well played. I don't know what your real plan is but for damn sure it's not got anything to do with Sweden or investors from Macau and nothing to do with this tournament. The game is afoot and the starting pistol has rang its final bell, let the dogs of war begin! | ||
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MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
On November 21 2011 02:46 Fandango wrote: Ha, trying to divert attention from the actual drama in order to focus on some crackpot's bizarre conspiracy theory? Well played MLG, well played. I don't know what your real plan is but for damn sure it's not got anything to do with Sweden or investors from Macau and nothing to do with this tournament. The game is afoot and the starting pistol has rang its final bell, let the dogs of war begin! You're good; a worthy adversary. Confusion is one of the key tenants of the Art of War. | ||
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Fandango
291 Posts
On November 21 2011 02:48 MLG_Adam wrote: You're good; a worthy adversary. Confusion is one of the key tenants of the Art of War. Ah, but Confucius is one of the key tenants of the Apartment of War. | ||
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Let it Raine
Canada1245 Posts
is it even possible to mess with the accounts somehow found by the replay data with the new privacy settings? so many nestea games i'd like to watch over a 1000x >_< | ||
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diophan
United States1018 Posts
On November 21 2011 02:53 Let it Raine wrote: the real drama should be around the lack of replays! is it even possible to mess with the accounts somehow found by the replay data with the new privacy settings? so many nestea games i'd like to watch over a 1000x >_< They release all the replays after I think 2 weeks. | ||
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stichtom
Italy695 Posts
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plutonowy
Afghanistan287 Posts
get less comercials, get more games on stream less breaks gr8 cup all the way biggest names GJ all ppl from MLG Awsome stuff. I love it. GG | ||
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Bro_Stone
United States510 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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JMDj
United States454 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:00 MLG_Adam wrote: After extensive investigation, review of the video files and 2011 Pro Circuit rules, we have determined that the replay had no impact on the tournament flow or the match results. Build orders are displayed at the end of a match on the stats screen. So the replay that was viewed would have revealed nothing the match stats page would not have revealed otherwise. Are you kidding me? Just because you determined that the replay didn't have an effect on the match doesn't mean it's ok that Naniwa broke the rules. This is ridiculous. The admin didn't tell him that, I know because I was standing right there. Why wouldn't a player playing in a National Championship know where the spawns were? He chose the map, it is his responsibility to know the intricacies involved. Why would Naniwa blatantly LIE and PAUSE the game if an admin hadn't told him that? The whole story seemed very fishy, like MLG was trying to cover their asses. | ||
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MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
On November 21 2011 04:21 Swagasaurus wrote: Are you kidding me? Just because you determined that the replay didn't have an effect on the match doesn't mean it's ok that Naniwa broke the rules. This is ridiculous. Why would Naniwa blatantly LIE and PAUSE the game if an admin hadn't told him that? The whole story seemed very fishy, like MLG was trying to cover their asses. Again. He did not break a rule reviewing a replay, it is not in our rules that you cannot. No admin ever told him to pause a game. He was in a booth, isolated, and he paused it to complain to an admin. Please stop guys. This is over. | ||
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Lunares
United States909 Posts
On November 21 2011 04:21 Swagasaurus wrote: Are you kidding me? Just because you determined that the replay didn't have an effect on the match doesn't mean it's ok that Naniwa broke the rules. This is ridiculous. Why would Naniwa blatantly LIE and PAUSE the game if an admin hadn't told him that? The whole story seemed very fishy, like MLG was trying to cover their asses. Or you know Naniwa isn't a native english speaker and he misunderstood what the admin said. | ||
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euroboy
Sweden536 Posts
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JMDj
United States454 Posts
No admin ever told him to pause a game. He was in a booth, isolated, and he paused it to complain to an admin. I'm not saying an admin told him to pause the game, I'm saying the admin told him it was cross spawns only. Naniwa has no reason to interrupt his own game to complain about something if the admin didn't tell him that. MLG says the admin didn't tell him that but Naniwa says they did. Naniwa has no reason to lie, MLG does | ||
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MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
On November 21 2011 04:37 Swagasaurus wrote: I'm not saying an admin told him to pause the game, I'm saying the admin told him it was cross spawns only. Naniwa has no reason to interrupt his own game to complain about something if the admin didn't tell him that. MLG says the admin didn't tell him that but Naniwa says they did. Naniwa has no reason to lie, MLG does Why would we lie? Players should know the spawns of the maps they'll be playing on, especially for this much money. Aside from that, I have said what happened many times in this thread. This will be my last post. Enjoy the rest of the weekend. | ||
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Horse...falcon
United States1851 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:11 Tabbris wrote: Reddit Over reacting again -.- I'm sure TL never does that | ||
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chrissummers
243 Posts
it is the intention and not the result that matters. otherwise an attempted murder would not be brought to court, just because it had "no impact". And obviously there is something in your rules, saying players must show sportmanslike behaviour and be fair. But you rather have some haters than a big drama about a forfeit etc, don't you? | ||
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chocopaw
2072 Posts
Well, now that I'm in here, I might as well state that I'm baffled that this thread got to 8 pages. Stop overreacting to shit like this, guys. =) | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:14 rareh wrote: This is extremely low from mlg, telling that a player lied just to make themselves look good. You guys obviously deserved the comment from naniwa where he gives his opinion about the tournament. That's extremely low of YOU, accusing someone of being a liar without any firsthand information. | ||
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Jitsu
United States929 Posts
Thank you for responding to the situation. I know it's hard to make a statement in any way when some many people are swayed one way or another. It takes major cajones just to put it out there. Thank you again. Also, thank you, and everyone at the MLG Organization, for taking it on yourselves to run the Pro Circuit and provide us with such great entertainment. Sometimes it's rough with know-it-all snipers, but rest assured, you guys are doing a great job. I'm glad you guys are here to put these events up, than to not be here and have us just laddering. <3 ~Jitsu | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On November 21 2011 04:37 Swagasaurus wrote: I'm not saying an admin told him to pause the game, I'm saying the admin told him it was cross spawns only. Naniwa has no reason to interrupt his own game to complain about something if the admin didn't tell him that. MLG says the admin didn't tell him that but Naniwa says they did. Naniwa has no reason to lie, MLG does Naniwa has EVERY reason to pause the game because his tournament life was at stake. Considering how he chose to open that game with a cannon rush, know the exact spawn location without having to scout is a pretty nice advantage. MLG Adam has NO incentive to lie, especially now -- Naniwa won the match anyway, and if someone did tell Naniwa that it was cross spawns they could easily just admit to it and apologize. It's not like Naniwa suffered any real negative consequences. Naniwa has every reason to lie, MLG doesn't. I can't believe people don't see the obvious. Are we in topsy-turvy town? Edit: Not saying anyone 'lied'. i personally agree that there was a geniune misunderstanding, or simply that Naniwa made an assumption about the maps -- maybe he was mixing up rules from different tournaments and remembering in correctly. | ||
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raheelp
United States54 Posts
Great tournament though. | ||
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xploD69
Canada16 Posts
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HMzK
74 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:05 tnud wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlgxPBTscf0 Naniwa interview regarding the match! Watch if you still don't trust him. Have no idea where you are going with this. Fuck off with drama. Nice approach Adam, thank you for the statement! | ||
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Yonnua
United Kingdom2331 Posts
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ShineOnYou
93 Posts
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Grend
1600 Posts
On November 21 2011 05:08 chrissummers wrote: I love the part of "no impact". it is the intention and not the result that matters. otherwise an attempted murder would not be brought to court, just because it had "no impact". And obviously there is something in your rules, saying players must show sportmanslike behaviour and be fair. But you rather have some haters than a big drama about a forfeit etc, don't you? He got a technical foul though. Not for that alone but for the whole incident as far as I`ve understood. Besides it is not expressly forbidden to watch replays in MLG so your murder analogy is stretching it. | ||
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Executor1
1353 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:12 Fandango wrote: Then why is he saying something very different in the above linked video? And you should know that there have been a lot of different versions of Shakura's and even different MLG versions, so no, it's not only the responsibility of the player it's the responsibility of the staff of the tournament to be able to answer a simple question. I wasn't there obviously, but from how Naniwa described it he's pretty clearly referring to a time when it was just him talking to the one admin alone, also why on earth would he pause the game after being told that it wasn't cross positions only? Why would he scout that direction to begin with? You're painting a picture and it aint pretty kid and I don't like the look of it. Not one bit. Your calling one of the execs at mlg a kid?? ................. | ||
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Amornthep
Singapore2605 Posts
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Jabbo
21 Posts
There were lots of examples just the last 2 days ( calling a Nesteas move "idiotic", no handshake with DRG, checking replay, call MLG a "joke tournament" etc etc). This whole thing just shows me (again) that he is an egomanic kid. | ||
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Seiniyta
Belgium1815 Posts
On November 21 2011 08:47 Jabbo wrote: I rly fail to see why I should believe what Naniwa said about the whole incident when he clearly doesnt value fairness. There were lots of examples just the last 2 days ( calling a Nesteas move "idiotic", no handshake with DRG, checking replay, call MLG a "joke tournament" etc etc). This whole thing just shows me (again) that he is an egomanic kid. Are you an idiot? Seriously? Just wow, just wooow, Naniwa and DRG are team mates and it was in a friendly manner there; Did you even watch or are you just repeating others? | ||
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vilg
Denmark413 Posts
On November 21 2011 08:47 Jabbo wrote: I rly fail to see why I should believe what Naniwa said about the whole incident when he clearly doesnt value fairness. There were lots of examples just the last 2 days ( calling a Nesteas move "idiotic", no handshake with DRG, checking replay, call MLG a "joke tournament" etc etc). This whole thing just shows me (again) that he is an egomanic kid. I am embarrassed to be associated with you through being a part of the sc2 community..some time ago I thought "we" were the smartest gaming community, but reading posts like yours I wonder how you manage to breathe irl. Jesus christ. | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
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Nikerym
Australia17 Posts
Edit: Never mind already been discussed. Please delte | ||
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numberThirtyOne
United States294 Posts
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
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archonOOid
1983 Posts
MLG has full responsibility for stipulating and enforcing rules. | ||
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Robinsa
Japan1333 Posts
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Irby
United States55 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:06 MLG_Adam wrote: The admin didn't tell him that, I know because I was standing right there. Why wouldn't a player playing in a National Championship know where the spawns were? He chose the map, it is his responsibility to know the intricacies involved. So he just made it up because he wanted to re-game? Riiiiiiiight.... There is responsibility on the players to know the settings they are competing on. The maps were not published the day of the event. I agree with this. | ||
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mechavoc
United States664 Posts
Replays are part of the game that is not cheating that is called prep. Naniwa didn't reset the match MLG did. Naniwa did no wrong in my view. | ||
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Shinta)
United States1716 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:06 MLG_Adam wrote: The admin didn't tell him that, I know because I was standing right there. Why wouldn't a player playing in a National Championship know where the spawns were? He chose the map, it is his responsibility to know the intricacies involved. There is responsibility on the players to know the settings they are competing on. The maps were not published the day of the event. I'm not sure I believe you that the admin (or some MLG staff, or SOMEONE) didn't tell him that it was cross spawn only. I do agree that he should have known the map before he started. I do believe that the MLG rules are confusing. I do believe that there should be a RULES section, and then another section that states the changes that have been made over time, NOT 1 section that has the entire log of rules that have changed over the course of the season (and if you keep this one log, of multiple seasons). I do believe that NaNiWa was most likely mislead somehow, and that the person who mislead him should apologize. I don't know whether or not that was an MLG official or some random guy at MLG that he thought was an MLG official or just said was an MLG official to provide a more convincing case (I wasn't there listening to everything for myself, so it's hard to believe something surely). I think MLG should feel sorry that the situation occurred, and that if it DID so happen that they were at fault, they should make an open apology, and if it so happened that they WEREN'T at fault that they shouldn't. People will gossip regardless.... What's important is that the right thing is done! All aside, my favorite players didn't win, but it was a great event. Thanks MLG for making all of this possible, and I look forward to next season's great tournaments! If you all have one in Texas, I'll try my best to make it and I really hope it's possible ^____^ | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:10 MLG_Adam wrote: I'm not saying anyone lied. I'm saying there was an obvious miscommunication concerning an ambiguous question concerning general map spawns. Precisely and let's leave it at that. There really is no issue here. People will try to find anything to harp on. | ||
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Irby
United States55 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:06 MLG_Adam wrote: The admin didn't tell him that, I know because I was standing right there. Why wouldn't a player playing in a National Championship know where the spawns were? He chose the map, it is his responsibility to know the intricacies involved. I doubt he just made it up though. Something must have been said somewhere... | ||
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Xxavi
United States1248 Posts
Yet, it is still embarrassing to see all these fanboys saying he has done no wrong. He SHOULD KNOW THE MAPS, period. I said it from get go when he stopped that it is his mistake if he doesn't/didn't know. | ||
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tadL
Croatia679 Posts
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lleberg
Sweden19 Posts
If you haven't heard, then you should. http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/videos/79684-slasher-episode-27 Naniwa is on from 3:30, about the pause-games from 14:00 And as he has stated earlier on twitter, he has been in professional gamin for nearly 8 years, why do people think he would cheat? And why doesn't the starcraft community support foreginers that do well? If you still hate on Naniwa, you're either a troll or Nestea fanboy.. Imho. | ||
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oDieN[Siege]
United States2904 Posts
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tadL
Croatia679 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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lleberg
Sweden19 Posts
And this isn't about history, this is about what happened at mlg providence. The thing that worries me is that there are starcraft fans that like "decides" that naniwa cheated and spews it all over the internet without even knowing the facts about anything on the matter. I thought more of the starcraft community. | ||
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Polox
Sweden115 Posts
On November 24 2011 05:27 tadL wrote: lleberg, catch some wc3 history with naniwa. i am actually suprised that he has fanboys. and i am not a hater but if he didnt cheat...saddam had also weapons of mass destruction ^^ He didn't cheat, should be obvious. "Additionally, to clarify, the Complexity manager was allowed in the booth, accompanied by MLG staff" | ||
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Phobbers
773 Posts
On November 24 2011 05:41 lleberg wrote: tadL: Saying naniwa is like saddam hussein makes you a troll, nothing else. And this isn't about history, this is about what happened at mlg providence. You're being very narrow-minded if you don't think history doesn't play a roll here. I hate to harp on someone, but TT1 has been caught cheating before, and guess what? That still follows him to this very day. While some of us learn to forget the past, sometimes getting kicked off 5+ teams and even getting kicked out of your own home because of acting like a dick can play a vital roll in how people view you. I'm all for supporting Naniwa, but sometimes your past can haunt you. | ||
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babo213
United States266 Posts
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Tarotis
Germany1931 Posts
On November 24 2011 05:47 Polox wrote: He didn't cheat, should be obvious. "Additionally, to clarify, the Complexity manager was allowed in the booth, accompanied by MLG staff" If you would read what he says it would be ovious that he is talking about Naniwas WC3 history, not about the MLG thing | ||
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tadL
Croatia679 Posts
On November 24 2011 05:41 lleberg wrote: tadL: Saying naniwa is like saddam hussein makes you a troll, nothing else. Well i didnt say this. I compared an old lie to a new lie. Both in have been true. But interesting what fanboys are reading with eyes closed and just "he said something against the guy i dont know but i am a fanboy off *grml* True is, naniwa has a really bad reputation. and he is still bad mannerd and he shows it. Yes he has learned to shut up sometimes but if not then you can still listen to the boy from wc3 that really had no fans and even the one he had...well so many stories just get some google skills. rakkase should have a lot from him in archives stored. And i still think he cheatet. He says he didnt and i dont care cause i will not trust a guy who would loose all money if he would say "well y i did". Cause he is not like Bush who lied but cant be harmed, for example. | ||
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Polox
Sweden115 Posts
On November 24 2011 06:13 Tarotis wrote: If you would read what he says it would be ovious that he is talking about Naniwas WC3 history, not about the MLG thing Well I don't remember him having any cheating background in either wc3 or sc2, only BM. So it should be obvious his sentence has to do with SC2 and the recent conflict. | ||
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Polox
Sweden115 Posts
On November 24 2011 06:15 tadL wrote: Well i didnt say this. I compared an old lie to a new lie. Both in have been true. But interesting what fanboys are reading with eyes closed and just "he said something against the guy i dont know but i am a fanboy off *grml* True is, naniwa has a really bad reputation. and he is still bad mannerd and he shows it. Yes he has learned to shut up sometimes but if not then you can still listen to the boy from wc3 that really had no fans and even the one he had...well so many stories just get some google skills. rakkase should have a lot from him in archives stored. And i still think he cheatet. He says he didnt and i dont care cause i will not trust a guy who would loose all money if he would say "well y i did". Cause he is not like Bush who lied but cant be harmed, for example. In what way is he bad mannered? I agree that he was BM earlier in his career but nowadays I just see him having trouble expressing himself in english which can lead to missunderstandings, like it did with the whole Nestea incident. And do you have any proof to backup that he cheated? Otherwise that sentence is totally meaningless and can be seen as provocative. | ||
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forSeohyun
504 Posts
On November 22 2011 10:54 Xxavi wrote: It's disgraceful how Naniwa acted in all of this. First, he is "brave, honest and open" in his interview and in that he called MLG a joke, then he has to back track and act modest, humble and actually nice seeing how everybody reacted to his BMs. Yet, it is still embarrassing to see all these fanboys saying he has done no wrong. He SHOULD KNOW THE MAPS, period. I said it from get go when he stopped that it is his mistake if he doesn't/didn't know. I'm not sure if it would be better to let this go unanswered but here it goes: 1. Why is "disgraceful" that Naniwa backtracks? Isn't that what people want from him? It feels like "damned if you do and damned if you don't". Why is it bad that he acts nice now when he is calm? He said it was the pressure talking and not him when he typed those things in the chat. 2. There are people who are hating on Naniwa and there are people who is totally uncritical of him. But that is not all. There are people (like me) who thinks that the truth is somewhere in between those extremes. I'm pretty sure that Naniwa would admit that he did something wrong. But did he do those things willingly? Aren't more likely explanations stress, miscommunication, frustration? In general: People are far to willing to see either heroes or villains, both which does things with a concious and unclouded motivation. In reality it is probably split-second decisions made by a person bombarded with a thousand impulses. And if Naniwa (if for one second were to entertain that hypothesis) was doing something dodgy: why didn't he want to play right after? Why would the manager had to be brought there by MLG? Wouldn't he want it to remain unseen by the public? Why would he consciously try to antagonize MLG? No, it doesn't fit with anything else than frustration and stress and failure to control his emotions, I feel. So when MLG now has come with it's verdict I say: accept it and move on. Both sides. | ||
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godulous
United States337 Posts
On November 24 2011 05:13 tadL wrote: wp nani, build order scout by coach in my eyes. who needs scouting if you can pause the game and call a guy to tell you what your opponents opening is. All the arguing in this thread is bad enough, but why would you even post something like that? It was more than clear to everyone in every post made about it that an MLG admin accompanied the coach into the booth. Disputing MLG's handling of the situation or their specifics on the rules / wording of the map pool is one thing, but you're just trying to tarnish their reputation entirely. | ||
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dde
Canada796 Posts
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tzui
Germany60 Posts
Where is the link? and how can anyone misread a simple statement like: "cross position only"? Reading in the Night/Morning is an inplausible excuse | ||
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AcuWill
United States281 Posts
Yet, somehow MC is the darling of SC2 in many ways. | ||
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FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
On November 24 2011 07:57 AcuWill wrote: Regarding Nani's "bm", I didn't see anything that MC hasn't done 10000 times. Yet, somehow MC is the darling of SC2 in many ways. Uh come on, don't play dumb here. MC shenanigans are funny and he is a socially comfortable guy -- thus he's easy for fans to love as a "darling of SC2 (lol)". On the other hand, Naniwa is not funny or charismatic. He's good at SC2 and that's that. He totally lacks any likable character that MC has. You can't honestly think the two are remotely similar... | ||
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purpose
Sweden1017 Posts
On November 25 2011 01:14 FallDownMarigold wrote: Uh come on, don't play dumb here. MC shenanigans are funny and he is a socially comfortable guy -- thus he's easy for fans to love as a "darling of SC2 (lol)". On the other hand, Naniwa is not funny or charismatic. He's good at SC2 and that's that. He totally lacks any likable character that MC has. You can't honestly think the two are remotely similar... How about Idra? He is somewhat good at SC2 but just so bm and arrogant that naniwa dont even come close. I mean calling a opponent bad in a final that he did to Kas. Overall Idra also said in interviews that opponents are bad, not good or plain scrubbs. THere just is nothing likeable about Idra but still he is one of the most popular players out there and can get away with pretty much anything. | ||
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Gigaudas
Sweden1213 Posts
On November 25 2011 01:18 purpose wrote: How about Idra? He is somewhat good at SC2 but just so bm and arrogant that naniwa dont even come close. I mean calling a opponent bad in a final that he did to Kas. Overall Idra also said in interviews that opponents are bad, not good or plain scrubbs. THere just is nothing likeable about Idra but still he is one of the most popular players out there and can get away with pretty much anything. Well, Idra does have a lot of haters. As do Naniwa. Idra just happened to, for a while, be the only decent player representing the worlds largest fan base (the American) so of course he'll have a lot of fans. Just like Naniwa has a lot of Swedish fans. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44321 Posts
There's absolutely no reason why Naniwa would *choose* to scout diagonally on Shakuras first, unless he misunderstood recent instructions stating that players could only spawn in diagonal locations. It's longer to scout diagonally than to scout on your own horizontal side, and no one would mess that up. And Shakuras (like other maps) have multiple versions, so if a staff member pops in and tells him that it's cross locations (whether that's indicating diagonal only, or just the standard vertical split, or something else that could be misconstrued), he's going to take their word for it and try to interpret it. As it is, they had just screwed up the first game by asking for a restart, and Naniwa had literally left his booth in rage. As far as Naniwa's BM towards Nestea goes... I'm a fan of Nestea but I see nothing wrong with celebrations or a little BM from time to time. Naniwa isn't nearly as BM as some infamous players (FireBatHero, IdrA, etc.), and a lot of fans love to see rivalries and drama. We love manner MULEs and dancing units, as well as the GSTL celebrations, and this isn't really much different. Naniwa might not be the warmest player ever, but that doesn't mean he's not allowed to celebrate the fact that he totally raped everyone (minus Leenock) over the weekend. I didn't like the fact that he called MLG a joke tournament in-game, considering the two errors don't represent the hard work that the entire MLG staff and company put in on a yearly basis (and his words appropriately earned him boos from the audience for the rest of the weekend), but I can certainly see why he was pissed. But seriously, there's really no *controversy*. I think this is making a mountain out of a mole hill. | ||
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halfies
United Kingdom327 Posts
On November 21 2011 02:50 Fandango wrote: Ah, but Confucius is one of the key tenants of the Apartment of War. you sir, are a hero | ||
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