On November 20 2011 16:15 Sprouter wrote: This is such pointless drama. Knowing NesTea's build which HE MIGHT NOT HAVE EVEN USED IN THE REGAME had no effect on the outcome of Game 3. Get over it.
I don't think you understand how pros prepare for a tournament.
I think they have at least a second build on a specific map in such a long tourney.
Btw, I thought Cross-Positions only as well. DJ Wheat said it on the red stream once.
It was originally cross only, but seems like at Orlando they changed it back to both spawns.
Well, after reading the detailed account @reddit, now my mind on Naniwa's behavior has changed once again. He may/may not have broke the rule (otherwise the admin would not have attempted to stop him from watching the replay), and the whole situation does indeed paint Naniwa a dick to me.
On November 20 2011 16:24 Gotmog wrote: .....Its not it is that useful to knows Zergs build.... Its not like scouting a 4gate, or dts or something....
Naniwa beat him in 2x bo3 in a row...it happens...why make excuses for koreans constantly :/
I don't think most people are saying naniwa saw the first 90 seconds of Nestea's play and because of that he won, they're thinking that it makes naniwa look pretty bad if what that person on reddit says is accurate, that he went out of his way to load the replay of a game that was cancelled because of HIS insistence.
On November 20 2011 16:24 Gotmog wrote: .....Its not it is that useful to knows Zergs build.... Its not like scouting a 4gate, or dts or something....
Naniwa beat him in 2x bo3 in a row...it happens...why make excuses for koreans constantly :/
I don't think most people are saying naniwa saw the first 90 seconds of Nestea's play and because of that he won, they're thinking that it makes naniwa look pretty bad if what that person on reddit says is accurate, that he went out of his way to load the replay of a game that was cancelled because of HIS insistence.
The game was cancelled because they started while ad-break. Or not?
On November 20 2011 16:24 Gotmog wrote: .....Its not it is that useful to knows Zergs build.... Its not like scouting a 4gate, or dts or something....
Naniwa beat him in 2x bo3 in a row...it happens...why make excuses for koreans constantly :/
I don't think most people are saying naniwa saw the first 90 seconds of Nestea's play and because of that he won, they're thinking that it makes naniwa look pretty bad if what that person on reddit says is accurate, that he went out of his way to load the replay of a game that was cancelled because of HIS insistence.
The game was cancelled because they started while ad-break. Or not?
The second game was paused and delayed because of Naniwa.
The post on reddit, for those who haven't bothered to go there to read it:
NaNiWaisnotBM 26 points 1 hour ago
Throwaway So I was sitting in the front row of the main stage while this whole thing went down. Let me try to give some context. BEFORE the ordeal with the map happened, another ordeal happened. I caught in the chat one of the players saying that they needed to use the W.C. before the match started (I don't know which one it was), to which the admin responded "no, we have to start now". Then RedB said "ask your admin" to which the admin in the chat responded "we're going now" and they immediately cut to the ads on the player screens. At that point Artosis and Tasteless are still on the screen, but the match had started. Then Tasteless says something about "NaNiWa says he's going to pause the match.... we have to sort this out" - at which point I realized that it was NaNiWa that had to use the bathroom, and after about a minute of play (which was never put on the screen), paused the match. That's when they cut to the paused game in which there was OVER a minute of play time played. At this point, nobody really did anything, until the admins on stage realized that it was a horrible situation and they had to let him go to the bathroom (I get that they were late to start with... but it seems unreasonable to start a match when one of your players isn't ready because of time issues). That's when they cut away, NaNiWa left the booth (presumably to go to the bathroom). NesTea looks pretty pissed at this point (as pissed as you can imagine NesTea looking). The coach comes over to the booth and tells him he can go to the bathroom, and he's like but dude I'm already settled (I could tell because of his body language), and then finally agrees to go anyway. They both get back and they decide to restart the match. EXCEPT. NaNiWa got back before NesTea (I believe), but in any case, he quickly pulled up the replay from the match before anybody could stop him. As soon as the official on the stage realized, he went into the booth to tell him to stop, but it was too late, NaNiWa had already seen the starting position of NesTea. This went largely unnoticed. So they restart the match, and as soon as NaNiWa's scouting probe gets to the cross base and sees nothing there, he paused the game and said "?" "wrong map?". At this point one of the admins approaches the booth, but then he posts "admin told me cross only\", which was, in my opinion, very smart on his part, so that the audience knew what was going on and they couldn't just shut him up. At this point he talks to the admin, and the admin immediately looks defeated. The admin then walks over and talks to a couple of other people. This is when Sundance arrived, and joined the conversation. The admins then talked to all of the other officials on the stage, presumably asking if anyone had told NaNiWa that the map should be cross positions. This is where the story diverges. I think that one of two things happened. (1) Somebody actually told him this but nobody would cop up to it. In NaNiWa's mind, seeing the spawn in the replay reaffirmed the "fact" that the official had told him earlier. (2) Nobody actually told him this, but since he saw the replay, he assumed it would be cross position again and was pissed when he realized his cheese wouldn't be as effective. I could see the lead admin guy ask and look at all of the other officials on the stage, to which people were shaking their heads, as if everyone was agreeing that nobody told him this. At that point, the official went back in the booth to break the bad news to NaNiWa. NaNiWa was PISSED, visually repeating "NO, NO, NO!". It was apparent that he felt cheated, which I believe that he actually was. If he was told cross spawns, and it wasn't, that could seriously mess up your entire game, and in my opinion, the game should have been replayed. After the official left, he typed the rest of the text, "joke tournament" and "give me a minute to rethink". Here is why I think that option (1) is more likely. The officials allowed NaNiWa's coach INTO THE PLAYER BOOTH with 1:47 on the clock and the game paused. The coach talked to NaNiWa for a minute or two before he left and shut the door. Then a few minutes later, gameplay resumed. Why would the officials let the coach in to re-strategize IN THE MIDDLE OF A MATCH if they didn't believe they were at fault? This entire time, NesTea is sitting in his booth, looking defeated. At this point, it's over half an hour since the first attempt at this game had started, and he must not be in his proper mindset. I feel really bad for both players, and for MLG. I feel bad for NesTea because he was put through this horrible ordeal, and the disruption in the normal flow likely contributed to the loss. I feel bad for NaNiWa, because I feel that he was told one thing about the spawns, and that he knew that MLG knew that they were wrong, and played anyway (regardless of the outcome.) And I feel bad for MLG because they were put into a tight spot... But they honestly could have avoided this two-fold. (1) Let him go to the bathroom when he requested before the countdown timer, and (2) if they felt that they were at fault (which I think is undeniable by the allowing the coach into the booth during the game), then they should have replayed the match. Just my $.02
This seems to paint a slightly different picture of the incident.
1. The restart happened because Naniwa paused the game (that wasn't cast) because he had to go to the restroom, his earlier request to do so being denied by MLG admins, and then after he got back they decided to restart.
2. Naniwa had some kind of cheese and/or special build prepared for cross positions Shakuras because he was told, or believed that he was told, that the map would be cross positions only. That's why he was visibly upset when they restarted and ended up in horizontal positions.
3. An admin did try to stop Naniwa from watching the replay, but didn't seem to raise a ruckus about him watching it afterward.
On November 20 2011 16:24 Gotmog wrote: .....Its not it is that useful to knows Zergs build.... Its not like scouting a 4gate, or dts or something....
Naniwa beat him in 2x bo3 in a row...it happens...why make excuses for koreans constantly :/
I don't think most people are saying naniwa saw the first 90 seconds of Nestea's play and because of that he won, they're thinking that it makes naniwa look pretty bad if what that person on reddit says is accurate, that he went out of his way to load the replay of a game that was cancelled because of HIS insistence.
The game was cancelled because they started while ad-break. Or not?
I imagine it was a combination of both. They went ahead with the game because of time constraints, but Naniwa wanted to go use the restroom, and then the game ended up starting while on ad-break, and it was just convenient to restart the game because Naniwa needed to use the goddamn restroom anyways and they'd fudged up the timing of the game and ads.
At least, that's what I am getting from it. But mostly I'm confused.
On November 20 2011 16:24 Gotmog wrote: .....Its not it is that useful to knows Zergs build.... Its not like scouting a 4gate, or dts or something....
Naniwa beat him in 2x bo3 in a row...it happens...why make excuses for koreans constantly :/
I don't think most people are saying naniwa saw the first 90 seconds of Nestea's play and because of that he won, they're thinking that it makes naniwa look pretty bad if what that person on reddit says is accurate, that he went out of his way to load the replay of a game that was cancelled because of HIS insistence.
The game was cancelled because they started while ad-break. Or not?
The second game was paused and delayed because of Naniwa.
Well, tbh, i wouldn't even start to consider that he did that just to be able to scout if its 14p or 14h.... A lot more logical explanation is that he just thought they had a wrong map. Useless drama imo.
On November 20 2011 16:24 Gotmog wrote: .....Its not it is that useful to knows Zergs build.... Its not like scouting a 4gate, or dts or something....
Naniwa beat him in 2x bo3 in a row...it happens...why make excuses for koreans constantly :/
I don't think most people are saying naniwa saw the first 90 seconds of Nestea's play and because of that he won, they're thinking that it makes naniwa look pretty bad if what that person on reddit says is accurate, that he went out of his way to load the replay of a game that was cancelled because of HIS insistence.
The game was cancelled because they started while ad-break. Or not?
There seems to be some mystery regarding what caused the stoppage of the first game.
There are some first hand accounts in that thread saying that either Naniwa was insistent on stopping the game due to his need for a bathroom break while another guy (gleefulmidget) says that there was an admin in Naniwa's booth when they started the game so Naniwa paused it.
On November 20 2011 16:26 usethis2 wrote: Well, after reading the detailed account @reddit, now my mind on Naniwa's behavior has changed once again. He may/may not have broke the rule (otherwise the admin would not have attempted to stop him from watching the replay), and the whole situation does indeed paint Naniwa a dick to me.
Even if he did broke the rules (which as far as we can tell, he didn't), there will be people who find this inappropriate/unfair/whatever you want to call it.
Even if he didn't broke the rule, it was a fact he called MLG a 'joke tournament'
While he may not have done anything wrong/against the rules that requires him to 'defend himself', the fact he called MLG a joke tournament portrays himself in very, very poor image.
Yeah, I forgot about that part, but it's really stupid that people make such a big deal about Naniwa calling Nestea an idiot when he clearly also calls Thorzain and Sjow's decision to move back to Sweden stupid. It's just a guy being critical of others (even his friends), rather than being BM.
On November 20 2011 16:37 wei2coolman wrote: Gawd, I had internship, i missed 3rd nani vs nestea match. but from what I heard, Naniwa won, and had a terrible ceremony.
He needs to go to Firebathero's house, and learn how to BM, like an actual boss.
If he's going to 'bm', may as well go 'all the way', right?
On November 20 2011 15:14 GeorgeForeman wrote: I blame Artosis. Before their second match, he said (incorrectly) that Nani had called NesTea bad after their previous series. When he says this on stream, people react to it.
If people want to talk about Naniwa being BM, they should instead focus on Game 3. There seems to be confusion about the events, so I'll describe what I saw as a spectator.
-Game starts. Nani scouts cross positions -Game paused by admins just as Nani is getting there. All he's seen in the creep. No structures or units. And no expo, too, I suppose. -There is a delay over something technical (The game wasn't being streamed or something? I dunno.) Eventually Nani leaves for the bathroom. NesTea then does the same. It's still delayed when Nani gets back, everyone in game. At some point, Nani leaves the game and watches the replay, showing him NesTea's opening. He then hosts the next game and invites everyone, which is what NesTea returns from the bathroom to. -Stream's working, game starts, (yay) Nani scouts at same timing, going directly cross-positions and finds that NesTea's not there, which apparently COMPLETELY messed up his build, because he pauses, blah blah.
Stuff after that's been discussed ad nauseum, but what about the part where Nani watched NesTea's opener? Isn't that like blatantly cheating? How is THAT not the scandal? Why are people focusing on silly stuff like two people for whom English is not their first language getting pissed at one another over some stuff mis-spoken in English? Can we focus on the part where Naniwa illegally (one would presume it's illegal. Because otherwise that's dumb.) scouted NesTea's build? Please?
There is no scandal because there are no rules against him doing that. I have no idea why the game was restarted, but if it was restarted because the admins ordered it, the players have no obligation to not watch the replay or to look at the build order in match history.
The only shady thing would be if Naniwa tricked the admins into restarting the game specifically so that he can watch the replay.
I think we all can agree that there should be a rule against it, in that situation. Maybe something to implement for MLG.
On November 20 2011 16:37 wei2coolman wrote: Gawd, I had internship, i missed 3rd nani vs nestea match. but from what I heard, Naniwa won, and had a terrible ceremony.
He needs to go to Firebathero's house, and learn how to BM, like an actual boss.
If he's going to 'bm', may as well go 'all the way', right?
Nani's ceremony was really quite bad, but I don't know if it could beat Midas's in awkwardness.
On November 20 2011 16:26 usethis2 wrote: Well, after reading the detailed account @reddit, now my mind on Naniwa's behavior has changed once again. He may/may not have broke the rule (otherwise the admin would not have attempted to stop him from watching the replay), and the whole situation does indeed paint Naniwa a dick to me.
Even if he did broke the rules (which as far as we can tell, he didn't), there will be people who find this inappropriate/unfair/whatever you want to call it.
Even if he didn't broke the rule, it was a fact he called MLG a 'joke tournament'
While he may not have done anything wrong/against the rules that requires him to 'defend himself', the fact he called MLG a joke tournament portrays himself in very, very poor image.
Well, if he broke the rules, he better be punished for it. I'd think it should be common sense that you don't watch the replay of a restarted map just because you got back before your opponent did. It was cheating, pure and simple, whether it benefited him or not. Depending on the rules. I think it is illegal in GSL and IPL.
EPT
