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Watch how you approach the topic of match fixing. You can speculate, saying "I'm not so sure about the finals, something doesn't sit right with me," but if you are going to outright accuse players of match fixing you need something more than your word.
TL takes match fixing/abuse seriously and as such there is a burden a proof when you are accusing players.
- p4NDemik |
I don't think the final game was fixed.
I also don't think Nestea cared about winning it.
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On October 23 2011 10:42 DYEAlabaster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:39 lolnoty wrote:
I don't think its far fetched that they planned on splitting the pot and played that last game just to show cool explosions and shit for the crowd. It was seriously awful play from Nestea for a good portion of the game. If it was one or two small mistakes, sure, but he made a dozen huge ones. The entire way he was approaching the match was different than how he normally does.
I don't think it's a bad thing if they planned to split the pot, and I'm not saying that Nestea would have won if he played normally, but that was clearly not them playing at their best. It might even be good for SC2 to showcase some big explosions to a crowd of potential fans. This. Blizzcon was full of non-sc2 players, and honestly, making a spectacle of the game is gonna get alot more people into it. Which is ultimately good. I don't mind.
Oh, it was a spectacle all right...
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On October 23 2011 10:40 Ingebrigtsen wrote:
1.if they were splitting the money, who cares who won? they would still get the money and still had the title to fight for.
2. Nestea didn't know how much money/production MVP was sitting on
3.Nestea knows as well as we do what happened to savior, he's the best Z in the world, why risk getting banned for life over this game?
Completely different scenario. Savior was betting on his own games and losing in purpose which is illegal, whereas teammates splitting the prize money is not illegal.
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Switzerland2892 Posts
On October 23 2011 10:42 DYEAlabaster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:39 lolnoty wrote:
I don't think its far fetched that they planned on splitting the pot and played that last game just to show cool explosions and shit for the crowd. It was seriously awful play from Nestea for a good portion of the game. If it was one or two small mistakes, sure, but he made a dozen huge ones. The entire way he was approaching the match was different than how he normally does.
I don't think it's a bad thing if they planned to split the pot, and I'm not saying that Nestea would have won if he played normally, but that was clearly not them playing at their best. It might even be good for SC2 to showcase some big explosions to a crowd of potential fans. This. Blizzcon was full of non-sc2 players, and honestly, making a spectacle of the game is gonna get alot more people into it. Which is ultimately good. I don't mind.
People who play sc1 and think sc2 pro level is ridiculously low will think that it is even lower that they thought...
The only people who will be interessted are people who didn't fully understand what was happening.
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On October 23 2011 10:41 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:36 Toppp wrote:On October 23 2011 10:35 windsupernova wrote:
Well, just to add to the discussion:
Another tournament dominated by Koreans!
Will the foreigners catch up? Koreans won both the WoW + SC2 tournaments.... haha. Koreans weren't favorites in the WoW tournament though, and they haven't been doing much in the scene for a while. OMG did not look like it outclassed the non-Korean teams (can't call them foreigners in WoW), but won in very close matches that could've ended either way, while the other Korean team got eliminated in the group stages. SC 2... Well let's just say that the closest MVP came to losing to a non-Korean was Toodming's baneling busts.
Did you see goochi's positioning on dalaran arena? Miles and miles ahead of foreigners. Jungyup amazing hunter, clutch sacrifices and freedoms on his paladin. Disengage howl of terror deterrence death coils etc. At least the games I saw they played like fucking monsters :D
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On October 23 2011 10:44 NNTP wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:35 Eppa! wrote:On October 23 2011 10:31 NNTP wrote:On October 23 2011 10:23 Goldfish wrote:On October 23 2011 10:20 Dalavita wrote:On October 23 2011 10:19 Elean wrote:On October 23 2011 10:17 Dalavita wrote:On October 23 2011 10:10 NNTP wrote:On October 23 2011 10:05 LetoAtreides82 wrote:On October 23 2011 09:45 tlrocksss wrote:
[quote]
Ghost counter lings. No they don't, do you even play the game? Ghost are so much more expensive and they shoot slower than marines. The only terran ground unit that's worse against lings than ghosts are Thors without support. Actually, without detection, ghosts would wreck lings since they do extra damage to light units, They 2 shot lings. And for each ghost you can get 8 lings without having to spend any gas. Guess if a ghost can kill 8 lings, and guess which unit remakes the fastest with 15k minerals stockpiled. I have some news for you: The ghost weren't alone. With PF, tanks, medivac, it doesnt' matter how many lings you have, you will never kill the ghosts. I have some news for you. You don't need to only make lings. The entire argument is a WHAT KONTERS MASS GHOST OMAGID!, and the simple answer is that lings are great against them. If you're going to go with a match specific encounter, then no shit there are other things to take into account. Lings vs PF + tanks + ghosts + medivacs aren't a 100% sure way win (especially since the planetary with armor will take minimal damage from lings). Putting them in drops isn't a sure answer either (they're vulnerable in the overlords). Nestea broke underpressure and threw away that game. Anyone saying otherwise clearly didn't watch the same game as me. Let's theorycraft a bit, ok say nestea thought that he could overpower with 27 BLords. Fine! okay... but why send them accross the MIDDLE of the map where whole opposition is? Why not abuse terrain, and send them on top base or bottom base or both for that matter so that mvp cant focus down on them 100% with both ghosts AND vikings. and during that time sneak infestors through the middle. OR! lob infested terrans on the ledges of the bases and use them to keep a distance between MVP's AA and the blords? and resupply with ultras running down the middle? no he decided, ok I am tired of all this nuking and dropping bs and lets end the game with 27 blords down the middle theres no way that TWENTY SEVEN Broods can be sniped RIGHT? WRONG!!! What do you expect Nestea to do about the Viking in that case? I am guessing Nestea hope was to destroy Ghost+Tank+PF and flood with lings. To hit at production. BL solo will never win an equal eco vs Terran. On October 23 2011 10:34 NNTP wrote:On October 23 2011 10:25 Dalavita wrote:On October 23 2011 10:23 Goldfish wrote:On October 23 2011 10:20 Dalavita wrote:On October 23 2011 10:19 Elean wrote:On October 23 2011 10:17 Dalavita wrote:On October 23 2011 10:10 NNTP wrote:On October 23 2011 10:05 LetoAtreides82 wrote:
[quote]
No they don't, do you even play the game? Ghost are so much more expensive and they shoot slower than marines. The only terran ground unit that's worse against lings than ghosts are Thors without support. Actually, without detection, ghosts would wreck lings since they do extra damage to light units, They 2 shot lings. And for each ghost you can get 8 lings without having to spend any gas. Guess if a ghost can kill 8 lings, and guess which unit remakes the fastest with 15k minerals stockpiled. I have some news for you: The ghost weren't alone. With PF, tanks, medivac, it doesnt' matter how many lings you have, you will never kill the ghosts. I have some news for you. You don't need to only make lings. The entire argument is a WHAT KONTERS MASS GHOST OMAGID!, and the simple answer is that lings are great against them. If you're going to go with a match specific encounter, then no shit there are other things to take into account. Lings vs PF + tanks + ghosts + medivacs aren't a 100% sure way win (especially since the planetary with armor will take minimal damage from lings). Putting them in drops isn't a sure answer either (they're vulnerable in the overlords). Did you not read a word I said? "The entire argument is a WHAT KONTERS MASS GHOST OMAGID!, and the simple answer is that lings are great against them." P.S Mass roach counters mass ghosts, roaches have ALOT of HP and are armored so do not suffer bonus damage from ghosts and only cost 75\25 to the ghosts' 200\100. That would have been a great choice too, send blords to the bases draw away parts of the army and sneak roaches in away from the PF and tanks. Roaches had no upgrades and tie up you supply, One ghost > One Roach. True he didnt upgrade the roaches but he had 3 armor up which means that he could have sent roaches in to buffer some of the damage and create space and then go in blords at an angle where he only faces vikings OR ghosts not both! Also, vikings cannot do anything to roach and he did have few infestors as back up but were useless as he didnt see where he had to fungal since the first units to breech the line of sigh were the blords followed by the infestors who were quickly emp ed. going through the center was the worst decision he could have made with the units on the map at that point in time.
ur totally right, but if we remember that MVP was also playing the game it would be very hard if not impossible
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On October 23 2011 10:43 Telcontar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:38 Supdude wrote:
The game was entertaining. It's obviously fixed, but hey, they are on the same team. That's the way it is.
MVP took out Sen (rather easily), so Nestea gave him the title. It's a win-win. No wonder Nestea beat MVP so easily earlier.
Of course Nestea would be favored against Sen, too, but it's a much riskier proposition. ZvZ by nature is unpredictable, and Sen's ZvZ is his best matchup.
Now it all makes sense Huh? That doesn't make any sense. Why would NesTea let MVP win if MVP beat Sen? Am I missing something here? Are you being sarcastic? Also, even if they had agreed to split the prize money beforehand, why would he just willingly give up the prestige that comes with winning the whole tournament? All you conspirators are also forgetting that the korean culture is quite different. If they had really fixed the outcome, it would've been NesTea winning the whole thing since he's the senior and holds authority over MVP. People need to stop with this match-fixing bullshit now.
there is no conspiracy. it's just people failing to realize how a split map shakuras zvt plays out when you're a subpar zvt player against the best terran in the world.
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On October 23 2011 10:09 Ilintar wrote:
Okay, I seriously don't see how people are claiming this game was a) bad, b) fixed. You have a game where the top pros are basically executing a dance of strategies and counters for 40 minutes and you claim the game was rigged because one of them came up on top?
3) Why the doomdrop?
A lot of people are contradicting themselves here. First you say Nestea was stupid for not trading armies, then you criticize the doomdrop - for Nestea, this was probably the perceived most cost-efficient way of trading armies. He probably didn't take into consideration how quickly his overlords would get sniped.
I loved the doom drop but MVP's sim city kept it's damage and ability to get around his base to a minimum especially with the ultras hogging so much space. Nestea is never aware of how fast his overlords can die, he has this problem a lot vP too. That drop could have been epic if he'd gone for say the lower left base because there weren't many buildings there and more workers for easy killing. I was actually expecting him to doom drop the top with ling banelings + nydus the lower base and dump ultras there ( or vice versa with ultras at the top left to kill production and ling bling at the bottom to kill workers) since mvp's army could not be everywhere at once.
*Sigh* I def don't think the games were fixed or bad but I do think Nestea could have made a few better choices at points. However I was not there, I didn't have a difference of 25k riding on my every decision and I am not a 3 time gsl champion who knows what composition he plays best with.
Also people are discounting the tiny factor of luck, If Nestea had been a few seconds faster getting those first mutas into MVP's base ( He was collecting plus stacking them inches out of vision) he could have been there before the turrets finished and who knows what might have happened then. What if those initial Nydus had not been scouted and stopped etc Tiny things add up and change the tide of battles so we can never know what might have been.
I love both MVP and Nestea as players and I was for the most part impressed by both of them today. MVP's late game TvZ is generally better than Nestea's ZvT and I think it's hard for some of his fans to deal with. Nestea's ZvT has always been his hardest matchup and while it improves regularly it was not enough today end of story. It's not like 2nd place is some great shame or that 25k is anything to sniff at either.
* Most importantly we should all remember the little sporecrawler who tried his best ^-^
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On October 23 2011 10:45 Paperplane wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:41 Azarkon wrote:On October 23 2011 10:36 Toppp wrote:On October 23 2011 10:35 windsupernova wrote:
Well, just to add to the discussion:
Another tournament dominated by Koreans!
Will the foreigners catch up? Koreans won both the WoW + SC2 tournaments.... haha. Koreans weren't favorites in the WoW tournament though, and they haven't been doing much in the scene for a while. OMG did not look like it outclassed the non-Korean teams (can't call them foreigners in WoW), but won in very close matches that could've ended either way, while the other Korean team got eliminated in the group stages. SC 2... Well let's just say that the closest MVP came to losing to a non-Korean was Toodming's baneling busts. Did you see goochi's positioning on dalaran arena? Miles and miles ahead of foreigners. Jungyup amazing hunter, clutch sacrifices and freedoms on his paladin. Disengage howl of terror deterrence death coils etc. At least the games I saw they played like fucking monsters :D
Don't know enough about WoW to tell whether they were outplaying the foreigners, but OMG lost to Skill Capped in the group stages and 3-2'd them in the finals. Not exactly results that I'd put up to indicate outclassing.
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On October 23 2011 10:44 pPingu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:42 DYEAlabaster wrote:On October 23 2011 10:39 lolnoty wrote:
I don't think its far fetched that they planned on splitting the pot and played that last game just to show cool explosions and shit for the crowd. It was seriously awful play from Nestea for a good portion of the game. If it was one or two small mistakes, sure, but he made a dozen huge ones. The entire way he was approaching the match was different than how he normally does.
I don't think it's a bad thing if they planned to split the pot, and I'm not saying that Nestea would have won if he played normally, but that was clearly not them playing at their best. It might even be good for SC2 to showcase some big explosions to a crowd of potential fans. This. Blizzcon was full of non-sc2 players, and honestly, making a spectacle of the game is gonna get alot more people into it. Which is ultimately good. I don't mind. People who play sc1 and think sc2 pro level is ridiculously low will think that it is even lower that they thought... The only people who will be interessted are people who didn't fully understand what was happening.
It seems like most of the people here don't fully understand what was happening. Everyone appears to be focusing on what units counter what. But there is a lot more to what happened
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Hindsight is 20/20.
People need to stop considering these fucking players like, what did these casters call them?.... DEMI-GODS, who play PERFECTLY in every single game.
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On October 23 2011 10:45 Terranist wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:43 Telcontar wrote:On October 23 2011 10:38 Supdude wrote:
The game was entertaining. It's obviously fixed, but hey, they are on the same team. That's the way it is.
MVP took out Sen (rather easily), so Nestea gave him the title. It's a win-win. No wonder Nestea beat MVP so easily earlier.
Of course Nestea would be favored against Sen, too, but it's a much riskier proposition. ZvZ by nature is unpredictable, and Sen's ZvZ is his best matchup.
Now it all makes sense Huh? That doesn't make any sense. Why would NesTea let MVP win if MVP beat Sen? Am I missing something here? Are you being sarcastic? Also, even if they had agreed to split the prize money beforehand, why would he just willingly give up the prestige that comes with winning the whole tournament? All you conspirators are also forgetting that the korean culture is quite different. If they had really fixed the outcome, it would've been NesTea winning the whole thing since he's the senior and holds authority over MVP. People need to stop with this match-fixing bullshit now. there is no conspiracy. it's just people failing to realize how a split map shakuras zvt plays out when you're a subpar zvt player against the best terran in the world.
Yep, that's why Nestea absolutely crushed MVP on Antiga Shipyard. No mistakes from MVP, just amazing macro from Nestea.
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On October 23 2011 10:44 Stanlot wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:42 DYEAlabaster wrote:On October 23 2011 10:39 lolnoty wrote:
I don't think its far fetched that they planned on splitting the pot and played that last game just to show cool explosions and shit for the crowd. It was seriously awful play from Nestea for a good portion of the game. If it was one or two small mistakes, sure, but he made a dozen huge ones. The entire way he was approaching the match was different than how he normally does.
I don't think it's a bad thing if they planned to split the pot, and I'm not saying that Nestea would have won if he played normally, but that was clearly not them playing at their best. It might even be good for SC2 to showcase some big explosions to a crowd of potential fans. This. Blizzcon was full of non-sc2 players, and honestly, making a spectacle of the game is gonna get alot more people into it. Which is ultimately good. I don't mind. Oh, it was a spectacle all right...
Well, looking at the map pool, blizzcon doesn't strike me as a legit tournament anyway to be honest.
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I hope I have enough bridges to sell to many of the people on this threads... 
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On October 23 2011 10:45 Terranist wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:43 Telcontar wrote:On October 23 2011 10:38 Supdude wrote:
The game was entertaining. It's obviously fixed, but hey, they are on the same team. That's the way it is.
MVP took out Sen (rather easily), so Nestea gave him the title. It's a win-win. No wonder Nestea beat MVP so easily earlier.
Of course Nestea would be favored against Sen, too, but it's a much riskier proposition. ZvZ by nature is unpredictable, and Sen's ZvZ is his best matchup.
Now it all makes sense Huh? That doesn't make any sense. Why would NesTea let MVP win if MVP beat Sen? Am I missing something here? Are you being sarcastic? Also, even if they had agreed to split the prize money beforehand, why would he just willingly give up the prestige that comes with winning the whole tournament? All you conspirators are also forgetting that the korean culture is quite different. If they had really fixed the outcome, it would've been NesTea winning the whole thing since he's the senior and holds authority over MVP. People need to stop with this match-fixing bullshit now. there is no conspiracy. it's just people failing to realize how a split map shakuras zvt plays out when you're a subpar zvt player against the best terran in the world.
Going 3-4 against "the best terran in the world" makes you a "subpar zvt player"?
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On October 23 2011 10:47 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:45 Paperplane wrote:On October 23 2011 10:41 Azarkon wrote:On October 23 2011 10:36 Toppp wrote:On October 23 2011 10:35 windsupernova wrote:
Well, just to add to the discussion:
Another tournament dominated by Koreans!
Will the foreigners catch up? Koreans won both the WoW + SC2 tournaments.... haha. Koreans weren't favorites in the WoW tournament though, and they haven't been doing much in the scene for a while. OMG did not look like it outclassed the non-Korean teams (can't call them foreigners in WoW), but won in very close matches that could've ended either way, while the other Korean team got eliminated in the group stages. SC 2... Well let's just say that the closest MVP came to losing to a non-Korean was Toodming's baneling busts. Did you see goochi's positioning on dalaran arena? Miles and miles ahead of foreigners. Jungyup amazing hunter, clutch sacrifices and freedoms on his paladin. Disengage howl of terror deterrence death coils etc. At least the games I saw they played like fucking monsters :D Don't know enough about WoW to tell whether they were outplaying the foreigners, but OMG lost to Skill Capped in the group stages and 3-2'd them in the finals. Not exactly results that I'd put up to indicate outclassing.
WoW doesn't have a dominant Korean scene. Of course, WoW doesn't really have a scene... at all! But the statement still stands.
So foreigners can be construed as anyone honestly.
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On October 23 2011 10:48 Al Bundy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:44 Stanlot wrote:On October 23 2011 10:42 DYEAlabaster wrote:On October 23 2011 10:39 lolnoty wrote:
I don't think its far fetched that they planned on splitting the pot and played that last game just to show cool explosions and shit for the crowd. It was seriously awful play from Nestea for a good portion of the game. If it was one or two small mistakes, sure, but he made a dozen huge ones. The entire way he was approaching the match was different than how he normally does.
I don't think it's a bad thing if they planned to split the pot, and I'm not saying that Nestea would have won if he played normally, but that was clearly not them playing at their best. It might even be good for SC2 to showcase some big explosions to a crowd of potential fans. This. Blizzcon was full of non-sc2 players, and honestly, making a spectacle of the game is gonna get alot more people into it. Which is ultimately good. I don't mind. Oh, it was a spectacle all right... Well, looking at the map pool, blizzcon doesn't strike me as a legit tournament anyway to be honest.
I have to agree.
Every1 was hoping for a great tournament, maybe one of the biggest of the year.
It ended up being pretty terrible, a lot of good matches weren't shown at all and the mappool destroyed any possibility to get a good series.
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Off-topic: the level 90 ETC band is... just so weird >_>
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On October 23 2011 10:38 Supdude wrote:
The game was entertaining. It's obviously fixed, but hey, they are on the same team. That's the way it is.
MVP took out Sen (rather easily), so Nestea gave him the title. It's a win-win. No wonder Nestea beat MVP so easily earlier.
Of course Nestea would be favored against Sen, too, but it's a much riskier proposition. ZvZ by nature is unpredictable, and Sen's ZvZ is his best matchup.
Now it all makes sense
Are you crazy? NesTea doesn't lose in ZvZ man
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When are foo fighters coming on... -___-
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EPT
