|
Watch how you approach the topic of match fixing. You can speculate, saying "I'm not so sure about the finals, something doesn't sit right with me," but if you are going to outright accuse players of match fixing you need something more than your word.
TL takes match fixing/abuse seriously and as such there is a burden a proof when you are accusing players.
- p4NDemik |
Switzerland2892 Posts
On October 23 2011 10:29 yoshi245 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:23 exterminatus wrote:On October 23 2011 10:21 QuantumPhysX wrote:
also JP casting make it stop God yes, I hate JP casting, he sucks all the life out of the cast. I don't mind day9 with him since he sort of cancels it out, but JP is an awful option, sure he can be professional and work as a short notice Play-By-Play caster, but he sounds like he's falling asleep when casting. You'd have to pair him up with TotalBiscuit or Husky to make it work.
Why so much hate?
JP role is more to talk about the game, giving time to his co caster to think about the game, then let him speak
|
I think the one thing Nestea could have done, doom drops with zerglins instead of bannelings. Although with the armor upgrad, the buildings wouldn't die super fast.
|
On October 23 2011 10:23 Goldfish wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:20 Dalavita wrote:On October 23 2011 10:19 Elean wrote:On October 23 2011 10:17 Dalavita wrote:On October 23 2011 10:10 NNTP wrote:On October 23 2011 10:05 LetoAtreides82 wrote:On October 23 2011 09:45 tlrocksss wrote:On October 23 2011 09:44 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On October 23 2011 09:43 freewareplayer wrote:
A tier 2 unit countering a tier 3 unit is ok, but a tier 2 unit countering the complete tier 3 of a race is not right no matter how you look at it It's countered by the tier 1...... Ghost counter lings. No they don't, do you even play the game? Ghost are so much more expensive and they shoot slower than marines. The only terran ground unit that's worse against lings than ghosts are Thors without support. Actually, without detection, ghosts would wreck lings since they do extra damage to light units, They 2 shot lings. And for each ghost you can get 8 lings without having to spend any gas. Guess if a ghost can kill 8 lings, and guess which unit remakes the fastest with 15k minerals stockpiled. I have some news for you: The ghost weren't alone. With PF, tanks, medivac, it doesnt' matter how many lings you have, you will never kill the ghosts. I have some news for you. You don't need to only make lings. The entire argument is a WHAT KONTERS MASS GHOST OMAGID!, and the simple answer is that lings are great against them. If you're going to go with a match specific encounter, then no shit there are other things to take into account. Lings vs PF + tanks + ghosts + medivacs aren't a 100% sure way win (especially since the planetary with armor will take minimal damage from lings). Putting them in drops isn't a sure answer either (they're vulnerable in the overlords).
Nestea broke underpressure and threw away that game. Anyone saying otherwise clearly didn't watch the same game as me.
Let's theorycraft a bit, ok say nestea thought that he could overpower with 27 BLords. Fine! okay... but why send them accross the MIDDLE of the map where whole opposition is? Why not abuse terrain, and send them on top base or bottom base or both for that matter so that mvp cant focus down on them 100% with both ghosts AND vikings. and during that time sneak infestors through the middle. OR! lob infested terrans on the ledges of the bases and use them to keep a distance between MVP's AA and the blords? and resupply with ultras running down the middle? no he decided, ok I am tired of all this nuking and dropping bs and lets end the game with 27 blords down the middle theres no way that TWENTY SEVEN Broods can be sniped RIGHT? WRONG!!!
|
On October 23 2011 10:27 Jakkerr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:25 Tump wrote:
I can't believe the amount of whine, and suggesting that this match was rigged.
Ghosts are EASILY killed by Mass Lings, remember the game where Darkforce and MVP got to the late game and the exact same scenario happened? MVP was easily cleaned up with mass Ling. Nestea messed up, bad. Even a mid tier foreigner had an answer for this. That's exactly why people are suggesting it, why would the best zerg/player in the world make 28 brood lords in the final game of the tournament vs mass viking ghost. He plays atleast 30 games per day I'm pretty sure Nestea knows how to play vs anything. Anyway it was a nice showmatch, gn people.
You can't just look at what unit counters what other units. You have to look at the position MVP was in. Tanks/Marines spread out perfectly in the middle with a PF even. How do you get mass lings past this? The ghosts were kept behind the line until they needed to engage. If Nestea just threw 100 lings at that to kill the ghosts, it probably would not have working.
|
On October 23 2011 10:26 Eppa! wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:23 neurosx wrote:
I don't know if it was rigged or not, but I can't believe the best Zerg in the world would throw 27 broodlords just like that without any supports and leaving his lings/blings behind. Maybe he was in a very very very bronze player mood but meh Ill give you a choice 1. Stay back, let T get more ghost, production, then slow push so you die. 2. Attack and 1 in a 1000 you win. When Terran can split map and control center you are doing 6 base t vs 4 base zerg. The only person I have seen win in this situation is Idra after doing heavy delays on bio upgrades and eco harrasment before it happened.
Yeah but come on 27 broodlords thrown in the trashcan .. he obviously knew this was going to be crushed. I understand he needs to break it but still not with 27 broodlords just like that when there are 15 vikings already on the field .. he just played awfully sorry :/
|
On October 23 2011 10:30 pPingu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:29 yoshi245 wrote:On October 23 2011 10:23 exterminatus wrote:On October 23 2011 10:21 QuantumPhysX wrote:
also JP casting make it stop God yes, I hate JP casting, he sucks all the life out of the cast. I don't mind day9 with him since he sort of cancels it out, but JP is an awful option, sure he can be professional and work as a short notice Play-By-Play caster, but he sounds like he's falling asleep when casting. You'd have to pair him up with TotalBiscuit or Husky to make it work. Why so much hate? JP role is more to talk about the game, giving time to his co caster to think about the game, then let him speak
JP would work VERY well in a three person cast scenario like the Koreans often have. I would like to see this happen.
|
winning a GSL is something so different... players prepared their matches in their team house since days and days...
NesTea and MVP can get to the finals without preparing their matchs vs white dudes
(maybe that's why MVP lost to MMA)
After NesTea saw how poor the GSL ceremony was... he wanted to show poor games to get revenge on americans
NesTea wanted to say "watch how poorly I played to an event like that, why did not you throw confetti to MMA?"
|
On October 23 2011 10:25 Stanlot wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:20 Larias wrote:On October 23 2011 10:18 gogonow wrote:On October 23 2011 10:13 Larias wrote:
Crowd seemed to love it, but Nestea gave the game to MVP. The last game was nothing more than a showmatch. Undoubtedly why MVP ran off the stage after winning. Undoubtedly? If it was a showmatch, that's a weird fucking thing to do. He knew Nestea gifted it to him. He wanted to win it legitimately. Any other suggestions as to why he did that? He sure as hell wasn't smiling. MVP did look awfully unhappy for someone who's takng home the most massive paycheck of his pro sc2 life. I wonder if he was disappointed. I wonder if he expected more of Nestea's late game.
Idk what happened in that last game, but it could have been that they both decided to play a long drown out macro game to show some good games because all of the other games ended rather quickly. I hope Nestea didnt just give the game to MVP. THIS IS NOT THE PART I WANT FROM REAL SPORTS TO BE APART OF ESPORTS GOD DAMNIT!
|
United Kingdom16710 Posts
On October 23 2011 10:30 cold- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:25 Stanlot wrote:On October 23 2011 10:20 Larias wrote:On October 23 2011 10:18 gogonow wrote:On October 23 2011 10:13 Larias wrote:
Crowd seemed to love it, but Nestea gave the game to MVP. The last game was nothing more than a showmatch. Undoubtedly why MVP ran off the stage after winning. Undoubtedly? If it was a showmatch, that's a weird fucking thing to do. He knew Nestea gifted it to him. He wanted to win it legitimately. Any other suggestions as to why he did that? He sure as hell wasn't smiling. MVP did look awfully unhappy for someone who's takng home the most massive paycheck of his pro sc2 life. I wonder if he was disappointed. I wonder if he expected more of Nestea's late game. he knows nestea will beat him irl
This makes no sense at all. He's won about 80% of his games vs NesTea. Are you saying every single game was fixed?
|
On October 23 2011 10:25 Dalavita wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:23 Goldfish wrote:On October 23 2011 10:20 Dalavita wrote:On October 23 2011 10:19 Elean wrote:On October 23 2011 10:17 Dalavita wrote:On October 23 2011 10:10 NNTP wrote:On October 23 2011 10:05 LetoAtreides82 wrote:On October 23 2011 09:45 tlrocksss wrote:On October 23 2011 09:44 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On October 23 2011 09:43 freewareplayer wrote:
A tier 2 unit countering a tier 3 unit is ok, but a tier 2 unit countering the complete tier 3 of a race is not right no matter how you look at it It's countered by the tier 1...... Ghost counter lings. No they don't, do you even play the game? Ghost are so much more expensive and they shoot slower than marines. The only terran ground unit that's worse against lings than ghosts are Thors without support. Actually, without detection, ghosts would wreck lings since they do extra damage to light units, They 2 shot lings. And for each ghost you can get 8 lings without having to spend any gas. Guess if a ghost can kill 8 lings, and guess which unit remakes the fastest with 15k minerals stockpiled. I have some news for you: The ghost weren't alone. With PF, tanks, medivac, it doesnt' matter how many lings you have, you will never kill the ghosts. I have some news for you. You don't need to only make lings. The entire argument is a WHAT KONTERS MASS GHOST OMAGID!, and the simple answer is that lings are great against them. If you're going to go with a match specific encounter, then no shit there are other things to take into account. Lings vs PF + tanks + ghosts + medivacs aren't a 100% sure way win (especially since the planetary with armor will take minimal damage from lings). Putting them in drops isn't a sure answer either (they're vulnerable in the overlords). Did you not read a word I said? "The entire argument is a WHAT KONTERS MASS GHOST OMAGID!, and the simple answer is that lings are great against them."
P.S Mass roach counters mass ghosts, roaches have ALOT of HP and are armored so do not suffer bonus damage from ghosts and only cost 75\25 to the ghosts' 200\100.
That would have been a great choice too, send blords to the bases draw away parts of the army and sneak roaches in away from the PF and tanks.
|
On October 23 2011 10:33 soulist wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:25 Stanlot wrote:On October 23 2011 10:20 Larias wrote:On October 23 2011 10:18 gogonow wrote:On October 23 2011 10:13 Larias wrote:
Crowd seemed to love it, but Nestea gave the game to MVP. The last game was nothing more than a showmatch. Undoubtedly why MVP ran off the stage after winning. Undoubtedly? If it was a showmatch, that's a weird fucking thing to do. He knew Nestea gifted it to him. He wanted to win it legitimately. Any other suggestions as to why he did that? He sure as hell wasn't smiling. MVP did look awfully unhappy for someone who's takng home the most massive paycheck of his pro sc2 life. I wonder if he was disappointed. I wonder if he expected more of Nestea's late game. Idk what happened in that last game, but it could have been that they both decided to play a long drown out macro game to show some good games because all of the other games ended rather quickly. I hope Nestea didnt just give the game to MVP. THIS IS NOT THE PART I WANT FROM REAL SPORTS TO BE APART OF ESPORTS GOD DAMNIT!
You would/will/will-continue-to like team leagues then. It is immune to the kind of back-room trickery that individual leagues can cause.
|
On October 23 2011 10:31 NNTP wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:23 Goldfish wrote:On October 23 2011 10:20 Dalavita wrote:On October 23 2011 10:19 Elean wrote:On October 23 2011 10:17 Dalavita wrote:On October 23 2011 10:10 NNTP wrote:On October 23 2011 10:05 LetoAtreides82 wrote:On October 23 2011 09:45 tlrocksss wrote:On October 23 2011 09:44 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On October 23 2011 09:43 freewareplayer wrote:
A tier 2 unit countering a tier 3 unit is ok, but a tier 2 unit countering the complete tier 3 of a race is not right no matter how you look at it It's countered by the tier 1...... Ghost counter lings. No they don't, do you even play the game? Ghost are so much more expensive and they shoot slower than marines. The only terran ground unit that's worse against lings than ghosts are Thors without support. Actually, without detection, ghosts would wreck lings since they do extra damage to light units, They 2 shot lings. And for each ghost you can get 8 lings without having to spend any gas. Guess if a ghost can kill 8 lings, and guess which unit remakes the fastest with 15k minerals stockpiled. I have some news for you: The ghost weren't alone. With PF, tanks, medivac, it doesnt' matter how many lings you have, you will never kill the ghosts. I have some news for you. You don't need to only make lings. The entire argument is a WHAT KONTERS MASS GHOST OMAGID!, and the simple answer is that lings are great against them. If you're going to go with a match specific encounter, then no shit there are other things to take into account. Lings vs PF + tanks + ghosts + medivacs aren't a 100% sure way win (especially since the planetary with armor will take minimal damage from lings). Putting them in drops isn't a sure answer either (they're vulnerable in the overlords). Nestea broke underpressure and threw away that game. Anyone saying otherwise clearly didn't watch the same game as me. Let's theorycraft a bit, ok say nestea thought that he could overpower with 27 BLords. Fine! okay... but why send them accross the MIDDLE of the map where whole opposition is? Why not abuse terrain, and send them on top base or bottom base or both for that matter so that mvp cant focus down on them 100% with both ghosts AND vikings. and during that time sneak infestors through the middle. OR! lob infested terrans on the ledges of the bases and use them to keep a distance between MVP's AA and the blords? and resupply with ultras running down the middle? no he decided, ok I am tired of all this nuking and dropping bs and lets end the game with 27 blords down the middle theres no way that TWENTY SEVEN Broods can be sniped RIGHT? WRONG!!!
What do you expect Nestea to do about the Viking in that case? I am guessing Nestea hope was to destroy Ghost+Tank+PF and flood with lings. To hit at production. BL solo will never win an equal eco vs Terran.
On October 23 2011 10:34 NNTP wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:25 Dalavita wrote:On October 23 2011 10:23 Goldfish wrote:On October 23 2011 10:20 Dalavita wrote:On October 23 2011 10:19 Elean wrote:On October 23 2011 10:17 Dalavita wrote:On October 23 2011 10:10 NNTP wrote:On October 23 2011 10:05 LetoAtreides82 wrote:On October 23 2011 09:45 tlrocksss wrote:On October 23 2011 09:44 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
[quote]
It's countered by the tier 1...... Ghost counter lings. No they don't, do you even play the game? Ghost are so much more expensive and they shoot slower than marines. The only terran ground unit that's worse against lings than ghosts are Thors without support. Actually, without detection, ghosts would wreck lings since they do extra damage to light units, They 2 shot lings. And for each ghost you can get 8 lings without having to spend any gas. Guess if a ghost can kill 8 lings, and guess which unit remakes the fastest with 15k minerals stockpiled. I have some news for you: The ghost weren't alone. With PF, tanks, medivac, it doesnt' matter how many lings you have, you will never kill the ghosts. I have some news for you. You don't need to only make lings. The entire argument is a WHAT KONTERS MASS GHOST OMAGID!, and the simple answer is that lings are great against them. If you're going to go with a match specific encounter, then no shit there are other things to take into account. Lings vs PF + tanks + ghosts + medivacs aren't a 100% sure way win (especially since the planetary with armor will take minimal damage from lings). Putting them in drops isn't a sure answer either (they're vulnerable in the overlords). Did you not read a word I said? "The entire argument is a WHAT KONTERS MASS GHOST OMAGID!, and the simple answer is that lings are great against them." P.S Mass roach counters mass ghosts, roaches have ALOT of HP and are armored so do not suffer bonus damage from ghosts and only cost 75\25 to the ghosts' 200\100. That would have been a great choice too, send blords to the bases draw away parts of the army and sneak roaches in away from the PF and tanks.
Roaches had no upgrades and tie up you supply, One ghost > One Roach.
|
Well, just to add to the discussion:
Another tournament dominated by Koreans!
Will the foreigners catch up?
|
u guys must be blind. he had all those brood lords for a long time. He didn't just make them and sent them. The brood lords were so slow and MVP was nuking and attacking from 4 -5 different places.
I Love Nestea.. just hate his fans.
|
On October 23 2011 10:31 slicknav wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:27 Jakkerr wrote:On October 23 2011 10:25 Tump wrote:
I can't believe the amount of whine, and suggesting that this match was rigged.
Ghosts are EASILY killed by Mass Lings, remember the game where Darkforce and MVP got to the late game and the exact same scenario happened? MVP was easily cleaned up with mass Ling. Nestea messed up, bad. Even a mid tier foreigner had an answer for this. That's exactly why people are suggesting it, why would the best zerg/player in the world make 28 brood lords in the final game of the tournament vs mass viking ghost. He plays atleast 30 games per day I'm pretty sure Nestea knows how to play vs anything. Anyway it was a nice showmatch, gn people. You can't just look at what unit counters what other units. You have to look at the position MVP was in. Tanks/Marines spread out perfectly in the middle with a PF even. How do you get mass lings past this? The ghosts were kept behind the line until they needed to engage. If Nestea just threw 100 lings at that to kill the ghosts, it probably would not have working.
I agree 100% man, but that brings up another question.
What should Nestea do? He has half the map his opponent has half the map, he has 14k minerals banked but he seemed completely hopeless.
What could he have done to win it, or does TvZ become unwinnable for Z after the 25 minute mark? (just a question I don't play T or Z, not a balance complaint)
|
On October 23 2011 10:35 tranmillitary wrote:
u guys must be blind. he had all those brood lords for a long time. He didn't just make them and sent them. The brood lords were so slow and MVP was nuking and attacking from 4 -5 different places.
I Love Nestea.. just hate his fans.
BONJWA!!!11!
|
On October 23 2011 10:35 windsupernova wrote:
Well, just to add to the discussion:
Another tournament dominated by Koreans!
Will the foreigners catch up?
Koreans won both the WoW + SC2 tournaments.... haha.
|
nestea needed lings infestor + 2-3 overseers . and of course max upgrades which he already had i think xcept adrenal not sure. ummm yeah
u cant go broodlords and expect to defeat mass ghosts. mass zergling on the other hand will crush them and infestors would make at least a part of the ghosts unable to retreat. this leads also to all the vikings on the field being somewhat useless.
|
United States5742 Posts
I don't know why people are still arguing whether mass lings would have been a better choice. Just about anything would have been better than 27 unsupported bls in the middle of the map vs mass ghost/viking.
|
On October 23 2011 10:30 pPingu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:29 yoshi245 wrote:On October 23 2011 10:23 exterminatus wrote:On October 23 2011 10:21 QuantumPhysX wrote:
also JP casting make it stop God yes, I hate JP casting, he sucks all the life out of the cast. I don't mind day9 with him since he sort of cancels it out, but JP is an awful option, sure he can be professional and work as a short notice Play-By-Play caster, but he sounds like he's falling asleep when casting. You'd have to pair him up with TotalBiscuit or Husky to make it work. Why so much hate? JP role is more to talk about the game, giving time to his co caster to think about the game, then let him speak
JP has done a lot for ESPORTS and has a good heart so I give him credit for those things, but the guy has zero charisma and that is something you need to be a popular caster.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
