On October 16 2011 11:14 eviltomahawk wrote: [quote] Although that point has been debated for countless ages around these parts, and no real conclusion has been made so far.
To me, he is European because he is of Caucasian descent, though you could argue that he is actually African due to ancestral migrations.
When people say Korean they usually mean Korean in terms of actually spending time in Korea. That's why we call Select a foreigner and not a Korean.
Yep. Obviously HuK is a white dude and American-Canadian. What matters for SC though is his training, which is obviously Korean.
That would be like saying that French player practicing chess in Russia is Russian. That terminology makes absolutely no sense to anyone but few people who decided to use it (few sc2 fans who just need to be able to say that non-Koreans never win anything). You are redefining words needlessly, just say training in Korea, which is correct English, not Korean as he is not, he is a Canadian/American. Using few more words won't kill you and you will avoid butchering English language and creating misunderstandings.
Firstly, the korean/foreigner terminology was invented before SC2 existed. Secondly, I was simply clarifying what every sane person means by the terms. When someone says HuK is Korean, it is shorthand for saying he's a white dude who has trained in Korea for long enough to be considered one of them, in SC terms.
so by that logic rain is now a foreigner? Since he now lives and trains in the US? Do dirk nowitski, tony parker, pau gasol, etc. become american when they go to the NBA?
If he stays in the US for long enough, yes.
I'm not familiar with basketball, sorry. In football there is a clear distinction made between, for example, South American players who stay in the local leagues vs those who go to Europe. There's no similar terminology though.
???... South American soccer players will always be South American no matter how long they stay in Europe. It's just the consensus that a player's true explosion is found in the best level, in soccer's case, that's european leagues. But in soccer a player never "becomes european", unless he actually changes nationalities. Or maybe I just misread you.
BTW, I think this is one of the silliest discussions in all of TL. Why would a player change nationalities LOL. He's getting the best training, but he's still representing his home country. It seems like the inverse situation is consensus in SC, but it seems silly to me.
Actually in soccer ( football), sometimes South American players are considered European if they play in European leagues. This is reflected in Ballon d'Or. The award is called European Footballer of the Year. The award was abolished a few years ago though to combine with FIFA's but was a highly prestigious award.
So who was 2008's European Footballer of The Year ? Lionel Messi was despite him being from Argentina. Who was 2002's? Ronaldo! ( The Phenomenon!)
I agree with you though this is a silly discusson. Just playing devil's advocate
Dude don't you dare say ronaldo is european.
Oh i won't. Just saying that Ronaldo is 2002 European Player of The Year.
Btw, was lucky in this MLG? He should be right since he is in FXO and both Inori and Lucky were in IPL but I haven't seen his games. Or maybe i'm just blind.
On October 16 2011 11:16 Yaotzin wrote: [quote] Yep. Obviously HuK is a white dude and American-Canadian. What matters for SC though is his training, which is obviously Korean.
That would be like saying that French player practicing chess in Russia is Russian. That terminology makes absolutely no sense to anyone but few people who decided to use it (few sc2 fans who just need to be able to say that non-Koreans never win anything). You are redefining words needlessly, just say training in Korea, which is correct English, not Korean as he is not, he is a Canadian/American. Using few more words won't kill you and you will avoid butchering English language and creating misunderstandings.
Firstly, the korean/foreigner terminology was invented before SC2 existed. Secondly, I was simply clarifying what every sane person means by the terms. When someone says HuK is Korean, it is shorthand for saying he's a white dude who has trained in Korea for long enough to be considered one of them, in SC terms.
so by that logic rain is now a foreigner? Since he now lives and trains in the US? Do dirk nowitski, tony parker, pau gasol, etc. become american when they go to the NBA?
If he stays in the US for long enough, yes.
I'm not familiar with basketball, sorry. In football there is a clear distinction made between, for example, South American players who stay in the local leagues vs those who go to Europe. There's no similar terminology though.
???... South American soccer players will always be South American no matter how long they stay in Europe. It's just the consensus that a player's true explosion is found in the best level, in soccer's case, that's european leagues. But in soccer a player never "becomes european", unless he actually changes nationalities. Or maybe I just misread you.
BTW, I think this is one of the silliest discussions in all of TL. Why would a player change nationalities LOL. He's getting the best training, but he's still representing his home country. It seems like the inverse situation is consensus in SC, but it seems silly to me.
that's not true even though most likely they will retain the style of where they learned football so people keep referring to that. actually football pros get second and third citicenships all the time for playing in countries long enough! (and/or special ones to be able to play for national teams). it's just semantics again at this point as in that context it never refers to actual nationality youÄ're of course right there. but even for players like messi he's a 'spanish' player now because he played at barca for the most significant time so yeah
Messi could've played for spain, but he choose argentina. Because he feels like he belongs in argentina. The country sees him as an argentine. So he is argentine, despite what people say.
countryman sure
but the flavo(u)r of his play, i'd say he's more considered european of course us europeans would agree. i guess at that point like with huk everybody just finds some kind of 'loophole' to integrate a great player into his sphere
No countryman, PLAYER. He considers himself a argentine football player, that's why he plays for argentina national squad.
is that the catch 22 thing? are we at the point where it started with HuK? i'd think so
nobody's denying that
it's a question of flavor/system
but it's down to semantics again
On October 16 2011 11:50 yawnoC wrote: Stop arguing semantics and just watch the games already -.-;
Tyler and Slush GOGO!
i'm a linguist how dare you tell me to not argue semantics ;P
Tyler spawns at 6,5 and KR at 8. Tyler getting a gate and Gas. Barracks coming for KR. MULE-maker for KR on the way. Core for Tyler and an expansion for Kawaii.
So, all together, 8-37 and only has two series wins. The win against Choya is impressive, though. I guess. He also had pretty hard competition.
Yeah, it really makes me sad because I love InControl, but the results just aren't there. Great personality though and this is probably just a ridiculous slump.
He's been getting worse with every MLG. I think he needs to seriously reconsider his play style if wants results. Clearly what he is currently doing is not working.
Clearly. But has anyone watched enough inControl to know what's going on with him? Is there some defining trend that causes him to lose or what?
When people say Korean they usually mean Korean in terms of actually spending time in Korea. That's why we call Select a foreigner and not a Korean.
Yep. Obviously HuK is a white dude and American-Canadian. What matters for SC though is his training, which is obviously Korean.
That would be like saying that French player practicing chess in Russia is Russian. That terminology makes absolutely no sense to anyone but few people who decided to use it (few sc2 fans who just need to be able to say that non-Koreans never win anything). You are redefining words needlessly, just say training in Korea, which is correct English, not Korean as he is not, he is a Canadian/American. Using few more words won't kill you and you will avoid butchering English language and creating misunderstandings.
Firstly, the korean/foreigner terminology was invented before SC2 existed. Secondly, I was simply clarifying what every sane person means by the terms. When someone says HuK is Korean, it is shorthand for saying he's a white dude who has trained in Korea for long enough to be considered one of them, in SC terms.
so by that logic rain is now a foreigner? Since he now lives and trains in the US? Do dirk nowitski, tony parker, pau gasol, etc. become american when they go to the NBA?
If he stays in the US for long enough, yes.
I'm not familiar with basketball, sorry. In football there is a clear distinction made between, for example, South American players who stay in the local leagues vs those who go to Europe. There's no similar terminology though.
???... South American soccer players will always be South American no matter how long they stay in Europe. It's just the consensus that a player's true explosion is found in the best level, in soccer's case, that's european leagues. But in soccer a player never "becomes european", unless he actually changes nationalities. Or maybe I just misread you.
BTW, I think this is one of the silliest discussions in all of TL. Why would a player change nationalities LOL. He's getting the best training, but he's still representing his home country. It seems like the inverse situation is consensus in SC, but it seems silly to me.
Actually in soccer ( football), sometimes South American players are considered European if they play in European leagues. This is reflected in Ballon d'Or. The award is called European Footballer of the Year. The award was abolished a few years ago though to combine with FIFA's but was a highly prestigious award.
So who was 2008's European Footballer of The Year ? Lionel Messi was despite him being from Argentina. Who was 2002's? Ronaldo! ( The Phenomenon!)
I agree with you though this is a silly discusson. Just playing devil's advocate
Dude don't you dare say ronaldo is european.
Oh i won't. Just saying that Ronaldo is 2002 European Player of The Year.
Originally, journalists could only vote for European players at European clubs, meaning that players like Diego Maradona and Pelé were ineligible for the award.[2] In 1995, there was a change in the rules to allow non-European players to be eligible for the award if they played for a European club. wikipedia source.
Calling it european player of the year is a little misleading, it actually means now Player of the year in europe.
On October 16 2011 11:51 Telcontar wrote: Is it me or does Inori's booth cam make it look like he's chilling there with his arms on the back of his head?
On October 16 2011 10:41 MrSexington wrote: Top 6 Korean again?
4 of 6 already Korean? Will anyone not sneak in the remaining two spots?
*sheds zerg tears*
Huk is not Korean.
Although that point has been debated for countless ages around these parts, and no real conclusion has been made so far.
To me, he is European because he is of Caucasian descent, though you could argue that he is actually African due to ancestral migrations.
When people say Korean they usually mean Korean in terms of actually spending time in Korea. That's why we call Select a foreigner and not a Korean.
Yep. Obviously HuK is a white dude and American-Canadian. What matters for SC though is his training, which is obviously Korean.
That would be like saying that French player practicing chess in Russia is Russian. That terminology makes absolutely no sense to anyone but few people who decided to use it (few sc2 fans who just need to be able to say that non-Koreans never win anything). You are redefining words needlessly, just say training in Korea, which is correct English, not Korean as he is not, he is a Canadian/American. Using few more words won't kill you and you will avoid butchering English language and creating misunderstandings.
Chess is a pretty bad example in this particular case, since chess players tend to play for whatever country they are currently residing in. America has tons of players who are considered American and have won US Opens and such, but didn't spend much time here.
Anyway I see where he is coming from. I consider SelecT a NA player even though he's obviously not, and HuK has spent enough time overseas that his pedigree is more Korean than NA.
He was in Korea for a year, he lived outside of Korea for like 20. I know you meant playing and training SC2, but that just simply does not make him Korean. Being Korean has pretty well defined attributes in English and HuK does not satisfy them. As I said saying "training in Korea" (or some synonym) is not that hard, is more precise and clear and would prevent this endless discussions, where one side unnecessarily tries to create their own lingo with new definitions of words and the other side is then confused by sentences not making sense in standard English.
He is not of korean descent but he can be considered a Korean SC2 player as most of his TIme with SC2 has been in korea
Pretty much this, even if you don't agree, calling him a Korean player is different than calling him a Korean human. Like if I say HuK is really aggressive, it refers to his play, you wouldn't assume I meant that he punched some guy in a bar. Meaning is contextual.
Yes, but that does not mean that words can be used in any context. Aggressive has broader meaning than physically aggressive. Korean has exactly the meaning of being of Korean nationality/origin/ancestry (none of which HuK satisfies) in case of people, place of origin in case of customs, cuisine,....
Tyler spawns at 6,5 and KR at 8. Tyler getting a gate and Gas. Barracks coming for KR. MULE-maker for KR on the way. Core for Tyler and an expansion for Kawaii.
Tyler getting Warp Gate research and a Nexus. KR puts up a bunker and 2 more rax and gasses.
On October 16 2011 11:23 mcc wrote: [quote] That would be like saying that French player practicing chess in Russia is Russian. That terminology makes absolutely no sense to anyone but few people who decided to use it (few sc2 fans who just need to be able to say that non-Koreans never win anything). You are redefining words needlessly, just say training in Korea, which is correct English, not Korean as he is not, he is a Canadian/American. Using few more words won't kill you and you will avoid butchering English language and creating misunderstandings.
Firstly, the korean/foreigner terminology was invented before SC2 existed. Secondly, I was simply clarifying what every sane person means by the terms. When someone says HuK is Korean, it is shorthand for saying he's a white dude who has trained in Korea for long enough to be considered one of them, in SC terms.
so by that logic rain is now a foreigner? Since he now lives and trains in the US? Do dirk nowitski, tony parker, pau gasol, etc. become american when they go to the NBA?
If he stays in the US for long enough, yes.
I'm not familiar with basketball, sorry. In football there is a clear distinction made between, for example, South American players who stay in the local leagues vs those who go to Europe. There's no similar terminology though.
???... South American soccer players will always be South American no matter how long they stay in Europe. It's just the consensus that a player's true explosion is found in the best level, in soccer's case, that's european leagues. But in soccer a player never "becomes european", unless he actually changes nationalities. Or maybe I just misread you.
BTW, I think this is one of the silliest discussions in all of TL. Why would a player change nationalities LOL. He's getting the best training, but he's still representing his home country. It seems like the inverse situation is consensus in SC, but it seems silly to me.
that's not true even though most likely they will retain the style of where they learned football so people keep referring to that. actually football pros get second and third citicenships all the time for playing in countries long enough! (and/or special ones to be able to play for national teams). it's just semantics again at this point as in that context it never refers to actual nationality youÄ're of course right there. but even for players like messi he's a 'spanish' player now because he played at barca for the most significant time so yeah
Messi could've played for spain, but he choose argentina. Because he feels like he belongs in argentina. The country sees him as an argentine. So he is argentine, despite what people say.
countryman sure
but the flavo(u)r of his play, i'd say he's more considered european of course us europeans would agree. i guess at that point like with huk everybody just finds some kind of 'loophole' to integrate a great player into his sphere
No countryman, PLAYER. He considers himself a argentine football player, that's why he plays for argentina national squad.
is that the catch 22 thing? are we at the point where it started with HuK? i'd think so
On October 16 2011 11:51 Telcontar wrote: Is it me or does Inori's booth cam make it look like he's chilling there with his arms on the back of his head?
It's not you, I totally see him like he's relaxing :D
EPT
Great personality though and this is probably just a ridiculous slump.
