|
On October 16 2011 11:01 hitpoint wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2011 10:58 Soulish wrote:On October 16 2011 10:56 hitpoint wrote:On October 16 2011 10:53 JoeSchmoe wrote:On October 16 2011 10:50 TazzDingo wrote:On October 16 2011 10:42 JohnnyBanana wrote:On October 16 2011 10:42 RogerChillingworth wrote:On October 16 2011 10:39 Shurayuki wrote:On October 16 2011 10:39 MCDayC wrote:
That's gonna go down as another amazing ZvT that Idra should have won. and then the other guy was better and won instead? Idra should have won it. But then Marineking outplayed Idra and won it instead. Today I learned: It's too hard for 90% on TL.net to understand that winning a match does not mean outplaying the opponent. Sheesh... First Huk-Hero, then IdrA-MKP... Unforced errors should not happen but they do happen sometimes. Has nothing to do with being outplayed... srsly guys. outplayed. simple as that. poor engagements by idra, no upgrades. these are fundamental mistakes. 2-0 mutas 2-1 lings vs 3-3 marines. I count 5 upgrades for idra, 6 for mkp. Yea HUGE difference. can't just add upgrades like that lol. Does 1/1 ling + 1/1 roach + 1/2 muta beat 3/3 marines? I agree. 3/3 marines completely rape anything with lower upgrades, and equal upgrades even. My point is that Idra was keeping up with upgrades, he just has to split them between units while mkp didn't. So I think mkp's upgrades were far better, but it wasn't for lack of idra upgrading - it's because marines are absurd.
Is this a joke? T was upgrading mech too. At least +1 on mech, if not +2, so there's your equivalent to the muta 2-0.
The other absurd thing shit players say is that you need Hive units vs marines. Sure broods help, but you can't ignore the reverse - that T tier3 far more useless against any Z composition. There's no magic make 7 BC's and win button.
Besides, the actual units are only part of the equation - positioning and timing is so important to be able to set up the econ.
|
This is a really good video.
|
On October 16 2011 11:03 DoomsVille wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2011 10:55 FryktSkyene wrote:
Is it worth it to buy the 4 stream thing? Hae you guys been able to see good games? Like top player games not just open bracket noobs.
Also, how much was it? It it's really worth I will be getting it for next MLG.
Thanks Yes. 4 streams is absolutely outstanding. And no they aren't just streaming random noobs. It is mostly the best games that aren't on the red/blue stream. Totally worth buying a gold pass. Gold pass is actually outstanding value. 30 bucks for a year. And you're going to get 4 streams at every MLG.
it's cool but i'd actually advise people to check it out before purchasing (the silver membership thing in general again!)
hate to be that guy but i'm a bit...split if i would shell out that easily...but i'm a poor university thing so that's that
|
On October 16 2011 11:05 CryMeAReaper wrote:
Is it done for today? It's 4am and I wanna know if I can go to sleep :p
apparently stephano v drewbie is next
|
On October 16 2011 11:04 Makica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2011 11:01 hitpoint wrote:On October 16 2011 10:58 Soulish wrote:On October 16 2011 10:56 hitpoint wrote:On October 16 2011 10:53 JoeSchmoe wrote:On October 16 2011 10:50 TazzDingo wrote:On October 16 2011 10:42 JohnnyBanana wrote:On October 16 2011 10:42 RogerChillingworth wrote:On October 16 2011 10:39 Shurayuki wrote:On October 16 2011 10:39 MCDayC wrote:
That's gonna go down as another amazing ZvT that Idra should have won. and then the other guy was better and won instead? Idra should have won it. But then Marineking outplayed Idra and won it instead. Today I learned: It's too hard for 90% on TL.net to understand that winning a match does not mean outplaying the opponent. Sheesh... First Huk-Hero, then IdrA-MKP... Unforced errors should not happen but they do happen sometimes. Has nothing to do with being outplayed... srsly guys. outplayed. simple as that. poor engagements by idra, no upgrades. these are fundamental mistakes. 2-0 mutas 2-1 lings vs 3-3 marines. I count 5 upgrades for idra, 6 for mkp. Yea HUGE difference. can't just add upgrades like that lol. Does 1/1 ling + 1/1 roach + 1/2 muta beat 3/3 marines? I agree. 3/3 marines completely rape anything with lower upgrades, and equal upgrades even. My point is that Idra was keeping up with upgrades, he just has to split them between units while mkp didn't. So I think mkp's upgrades were far better, but it wasn't for lack of idra upgrading - it's because marines are absurd. But he wasn't keeping up. You have to understand that 3-3 > 2-2 on all your units. Is that fair though? Doesn't it require so much more for a Zerg to get 3/3 on all the units he needs in on than it does for a Terran to get 3/3 on his marines?
User was temp banned for this post.
|
This recap is really well done. Props to MLG.
|
I'm loving this previous MLG history video. Very cool!
|
lol this montage they're playing right now and all i hear every time tasteless is talking in it is patrick from spongebob. xD
|
On October 16 2011 11:02 Mycl wrote:
I understand peoples need to try and shit on Idra but don't spit on MKP and tarnish him by saying crap like this. He went into that game with that build believing it would win
Yeah actually Idra is a lot better at handling a lot of early racks/bunker pressure (a lot better than some korean zergs like Losira).
|
Why does it have to be 'IdrA/MKP played poorly' or 'IdrA/MKP played really well'? How about they both played poorly in a few ways, but also played well in other ways?
Also, the game doesn't have to be narrowed down to an individual thing. The result of a game is a sum total of everything that happens. Some moves are worth more, some less.
|
On October 16 2011 11:04 Badfatpanda wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2011 11:00 Zooper31 wrote:On October 16 2011 10:58 Courstice wrote:On October 16 2011 10:56 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On October 16 2011 10:52 JohnnyBanana wrote:On October 16 2011 10:50 Zooper31 wrote:On October 16 2011 10:48 Rebs wrote:On October 16 2011 10:46 Zooper31 wrote:On October 16 2011 10:45 Mordiford wrote:On October 16 2011 10:45 Zooper31 wrote:
[quote]
So you're blaming Idra for killing stray buildings? I'm really confused... No, he's explaining why MKP's macro looked poor. It didn't look poor, it was poor, simple as that. MKP's own fault for getting his supply depots constantly picked off. hahaa yea you know theres a fanboy in the house when the other players problems are self inflicted and the the guy he supports lost because Terran op lolol. Yes I'm a fanboy of Idra's, doesn't change the fact that MKP played poorly and only won because of that last engage. Your fanboism is clearly showing. Sure you may think that MKP played poor, but what matters is that Idra played worse. Suicide units 2-3 at a time into a tank line with medivacs and marines all around... Yeah, MKP completely outplayed Idra that game. Were you watching another game? completely outplay would be clearly having the upper hand the majority of the game and not sustaining much yourself. You are a step ahead. His win was due to idra's sloppiness towards the end and not maintaining upgrades. That's just how it is with zerg, things can quickly go down the shitter. It's far less forgiving. 3/3 Marines > 1/1 Zerg. Just like 3/3 Zealots would > 1/1 Marauders. Simple. I don't think marauders would actually even lose that if micro'd properly with conc. On October 16 2011 11:00 Rebs wrote:On October 16 2011 10:59 Zooper31 wrote:On October 16 2011 10:57 minhbq299 wrote:On October 16 2011 10:50 Zooper31 wrote:On October 16 2011 10:48 Rebs wrote:On October 16 2011 10:46 Zooper31 wrote:On October 16 2011 10:45 Mordiford wrote:On October 16 2011 10:45 Zooper31 wrote:
[quote]
So you're blaming Idra for killing stray buildings? I'm really confused... No, he's explaining why MKP's macro looked poor. It didn't look poor, it was poor, simple as that. MKP's own fault for getting his supply depots constantly picked off. hahaa yea you know theres a fanboy in the house when the other players problems are self inflicted and the the guy he supports lost because Terran op lolol. Yes I'm a fanboy of Idra's, doesn't change the fact that MKP played poorly and only won because of that last engage. Point out how was MKP playing poorly, he defends well against a 3 base zerg(4th base have no drones) when MKP just take his 3rd. Idra lost because he invest in mass units to attack, have nothing to fall back on (hive tech, infestors, no upgrades) => that's why he lose when he cant finish MKP. I will not comment on this match anymore but anyone who think idra is better player and MKP is not outplaying idra in that last game is delusional fanboyism and do not understand the game at all. Read the quote road and theres my answer, been said numerous times. Anyway I said I wasn't responding anymore cause I'm just wasting my time at this point. actually you were wasting your time from the start. Agreed. Zealots rape marauders so FUCKING HARD it's obscene, you have very limited game knowledge to believe otherwise, just contemplate Terran OP in your own home and save everyone time
Never ends does it? Gonna leave the thread now because people keep quoting me when I alrdy said I'm not wasting my time argueing when no one is ever gonna change their opinions. Gonna go play some LoL now.
|
Incontrol vs Polt soon on Beta1 steam also
|
Some of you don't think at all. If IdrA wanted to keep up with his upgrades he would have to rush hive. All a terran needs is a armory and they can go 3-3 off that. I wish zerg could get 3-3 off of lair tech.
|
On October 16 2011 11:06 Zalitara wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2011 11:04 Makica wrote:On October 16 2011 11:01 hitpoint wrote:On October 16 2011 10:58 Soulish wrote:On October 16 2011 10:56 hitpoint wrote:On October 16 2011 10:53 JoeSchmoe wrote:On October 16 2011 10:50 TazzDingo wrote:On October 16 2011 10:42 JohnnyBanana wrote:On October 16 2011 10:42 RogerChillingworth wrote:On October 16 2011 10:39 Shurayuki wrote:
[quote]
and then the other guy was better and won instead? Idra should have won it. But then Marineking outplayed Idra and won it instead. Today I learned: It's too hard for 90% on TL.net to understand that winning a match does not mean outplaying the opponent. Sheesh... First Huk-Hero, then IdrA-MKP... Unforced errors should not happen but they do happen sometimes. Has nothing to do with being outplayed... srsly guys. outplayed. simple as that. poor engagements by idra, no upgrades. these are fundamental mistakes. 2-0 mutas 2-1 lings vs 3-3 marines. I count 5 upgrades for idra, 6 for mkp. Yea HUGE difference. can't just add upgrades like that lol. Does 1/1 ling + 1/1 roach + 1/2 muta beat 3/3 marines? I agree. 3/3 marines completely rape anything with lower upgrades, and equal upgrades even. My point is that Idra was keeping up with upgrades, he just has to split them between units while mkp didn't. So I think mkp's upgrades were far better, but it wasn't for lack of idra upgrading - it's because marines are absurd. But he wasn't keeping up. You have to understand that 3-3 > 2-2 on all your units. Is that fair though? Doesn't it require so much more for a Zerg to get 3/3 on all the units he needs in on than it does for a Terran to get 3/3 on his marines?
No? Terran on 3/3 and 2/0...completely out upgrading the Zerg.
|
On October 16 2011 11:05 zdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2011 11:01 hitpoint wrote:On October 16 2011 10:58 Soulish wrote:On October 16 2011 10:56 hitpoint wrote:On October 16 2011 10:53 JoeSchmoe wrote:On October 16 2011 10:50 TazzDingo wrote:On October 16 2011 10:42 JohnnyBanana wrote:On October 16 2011 10:42 RogerChillingworth wrote:On October 16 2011 10:39 Shurayuki wrote:On October 16 2011 10:39 MCDayC wrote:
That's gonna go down as another amazing ZvT that Idra should have won. and then the other guy was better and won instead? Idra should have won it. But then Marineking outplayed Idra and won it instead. Today I learned: It's too hard for 90% on TL.net to understand that winning a match does not mean outplaying the opponent. Sheesh... First Huk-Hero, then IdrA-MKP... Unforced errors should not happen but they do happen sometimes. Has nothing to do with being outplayed... srsly guys. outplayed. simple as that. poor engagements by idra, no upgrades. these are fundamental mistakes. 2-0 mutas 2-1 lings vs 3-3 marines. I count 5 upgrades for idra, 6 for mkp. Yea HUGE difference. can't just add upgrades like that lol. Does 1/1 ling + 1/1 roach + 1/2 muta beat 3/3 marines? I agree. 3/3 marines completely rape anything with lower upgrades, and equal upgrades even. My point is that Idra was keeping up with upgrades, he just has to split them between units while mkp didn't. So I think mkp's upgrades were far better, but it wasn't for lack of idra upgrading - it's because marines are absurd. Is this a joke? T was upgrading mech too. At least +1 on mech, if not +2, so there's your equivalent to the muta 2-0. The other absurd thing shit players say is that you need Hive units vs marines. Sure broods help, but you can't ignore the reverse - that T tier3 far more useless against any Z composition. There's no magic make 7 BC's and win button. Besides, the actual units are only part of the equation - positioning and timing is so important to be able to set up the econ.
I agree with the second part. BC's are awful and it's a shame, but terran never needs them so I don't know why you even bring it up.
|
alright so what needs to happen for us not to have incontrol in drewbie in pool play?
|
On October 16 2011 11:05 zdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2011 11:01 hitpoint wrote:On October 16 2011 10:58 Soulish wrote:On October 16 2011 10:56 hitpoint wrote:On October 16 2011 10:53 JoeSchmoe wrote:On October 16 2011 10:50 TazzDingo wrote:On October 16 2011 10:42 JohnnyBanana wrote:On October 16 2011 10:42 RogerChillingworth wrote:On October 16 2011 10:39 Shurayuki wrote:On October 16 2011 10:39 MCDayC wrote:
That's gonna go down as another amazing ZvT that Idra should have won. and then the other guy was better and won instead? Idra should have won it. But then Marineking outplayed Idra and won it instead. Today I learned: It's too hard for 90% on TL.net to understand that winning a match does not mean outplaying the opponent. Sheesh... First Huk-Hero, then IdrA-MKP... Unforced errors should not happen but they do happen sometimes. Has nothing to do with being outplayed... srsly guys. outplayed. simple as that. poor engagements by idra, no upgrades. these are fundamental mistakes. 2-0 mutas 2-1 lings vs 3-3 marines. I count 5 upgrades for idra, 6 for mkp. Yea HUGE difference. can't just add upgrades like that lol. Does 1/1 ling + 1/1 roach + 1/2 muta beat 3/3 marines? I agree. 3/3 marines completely rape anything with lower upgrades, and equal upgrades even. My point is that Idra was keeping up with upgrades, he just has to split them between units while mkp didn't. So I think mkp's upgrades were far better, but it wasn't for lack of idra upgrading - it's because marines are absurd. Is this a joke? T was upgrading mech too. At least +1 on mech, if not +2, so there's your equivalent to the muta 2-0. The other absurd thing shit players say is that you need Hive units vs marines. Sure broods help, but you can't ignore the reverse - that T tier3 far more useless against any Z composition. There's no magic make 7 BC's and win button. Besides, the actual units are only part of the equation - positioning and timing is so important to be able to set up the econ.
There may not be a magic make 7 BC's and win button, but there is a make 15 ghosts and win button against zerg. Right now, if the game reaches that super super late, and terran gets around that many ghosts, Zerg can't do anything.
User was temp banned for this post.
|
On October 16 2011 11:00 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2011 10:57 JohnnyBanana wrote:On October 16 2011 10:56 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On October 16 2011 10:52 JohnnyBanana wrote:On October 16 2011 10:50 Zooper31 wrote:On October 16 2011 10:48 Rebs wrote:On October 16 2011 10:46 Zooper31 wrote:On October 16 2011 10:45 Mordiford wrote:On October 16 2011 10:45 Zooper31 wrote:On October 16 2011 10:42 hitpoint wrote:
[quote]
Idra was sniping all his depots. MKP was supply blocked for a huge span of time. So you're blaming Idra for killing stray buildings? I'm really confused... No, he's explaining why MKP's macro looked poor. It didn't look poor, it was poor, simple as that. MKP's own fault for getting his supply depots constantly picked off. hahaa yea you know theres a fanboy in the house when the other players problems are self inflicted and the the guy he supports lost because Terran op lolol. Yes I'm a fanboy of Idra's, doesn't change the fact that MKP played poorly and only won because of that last engage. Your fanboism is clearly showing. Sure you may think that MKP played poor, but what matters is that Idra played worse. Suicide units 2-3 at a time into a tank line with medivacs and marines all around... Yeah, MKP completely outplayed Idra that game. Were you watching another game? completely outplay would be clearly having the upper hand the majority of the game and not sustaining much yourself. You are a step ahead. His win was due to idra's sloppiness towards the end and not maintaining upgrades. That's just how it is with zerg, things can quickly go down the shitter. It's far less forgiving. Were YOU watching another game? MKP did have the upper hand ALL GAME long. Did you not see his upgrades? His win was due to holding the upper hand all game and then completely steam rolling Idra at the end. Simple as that. Dude, his economy was in the toilet and he was dropping constantly in supply. All idra had to do was hold the last push and that was it. He didn't though.
I think you're missing the reasons why MKP's macro looked so bad, you're not looking beyond the numbers:
-Basically, MKP made a quick tech into 3-3 build, sacrificing his production in the start of the game, with the intention of putting it back on on the mid-late game thus ensuring a rollover with massive upgraded marines.
-Idra was apparently caught off guard by the quick upgrades
-In this situation, Idra's response was to stop MKP's production by sniping supply depots, and to delay MKP's pushes by sniping tanks.
-Because of this, MKP was severely supply blocked, and his marine count was held back. This meant MKP could not stop producing marines to make reactors, because he might have been overwhelmed by mutas.
-By doing this, however, Idra's mutalisks were forced into small encounters with MKP's heavily upgraded marines, this means muta numbers never went over the top as Idra likes.
The end result of all of this is an apparent weak macro by MKP, when he was actually strangled into that position, you can tell he was actually macroing by looking at his SCV count, despite losing around 50 SCVs to harass he kept the number high, all while attempting to take a 4th even while harassed. All this also meant that Idra had to keep replenishing mutas, which kept his tech back, probably delaying infestors a bit. By the time MKP pushed idra had no counter to MKP's upgraded marines.
Or maybe I'm reading too much into it lol, but that's how I see it. MKP only had an apparent bad macro, but he was actually executing his build really well, he probably could have added barracks though, but he was being stressed by harass.
|
On October 16 2011 11:06 Zooper31 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2011 11:04 Badfatpanda wrote:On October 16 2011 11:00 Zooper31 wrote:On October 16 2011 10:58 Courstice wrote:On October 16 2011 10:56 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On October 16 2011 10:52 JohnnyBanana wrote:On October 16 2011 10:50 Zooper31 wrote:On October 16 2011 10:48 Rebs wrote:On October 16 2011 10:46 Zooper31 wrote:On October 16 2011 10:45 Mordiford wrote:
[quote]
No, he's explaining why MKP's macro looked poor. It didn't look poor, it was poor, simple as that. MKP's own fault for getting his supply depots constantly picked off. hahaa yea you know theres a fanboy in the house when the other players problems are self inflicted and the the guy he supports lost because Terran op lolol. Yes I'm a fanboy of Idra's, doesn't change the fact that MKP played poorly and only won because of that last engage. Your fanboism is clearly showing. Sure you may think that MKP played poor, but what matters is that Idra played worse. Suicide units 2-3 at a time into a tank line with medivacs and marines all around... Yeah, MKP completely outplayed Idra that game. Were you watching another game? completely outplay would be clearly having the upper hand the majority of the game and not sustaining much yourself. You are a step ahead. His win was due to idra's sloppiness towards the end and not maintaining upgrades. That's just how it is with zerg, things can quickly go down the shitter. It's far less forgiving. 3/3 Marines > 1/1 Zerg. Just like 3/3 Zealots would > 1/1 Marauders. Simple. I don't think marauders would actually even lose that if micro'd properly with conc. On October 16 2011 11:00 Rebs wrote:On October 16 2011 10:59 Zooper31 wrote:On October 16 2011 10:57 minhbq299 wrote:On October 16 2011 10:50 Zooper31 wrote:On October 16 2011 10:48 Rebs wrote:On October 16 2011 10:46 Zooper31 wrote:On October 16 2011 10:45 Mordiford wrote:
[quote]
No, he's explaining why MKP's macro looked poor. It didn't look poor, it was poor, simple as that. MKP's own fault for getting his supply depots constantly picked off. hahaa yea you know theres a fanboy in the house when the other players problems are self inflicted and the the guy he supports lost because Terran op lolol. Yes I'm a fanboy of Idra's, doesn't change the fact that MKP played poorly and only won because of that last engage. Point out how was MKP playing poorly, he defends well against a 3 base zerg(4th base have no drones) when MKP just take his 3rd. Idra lost because he invest in mass units to attack, have nothing to fall back on (hive tech, infestors, no upgrades) => that's why he lose when he cant finish MKP. I will not comment on this match anymore but anyone who think idra is better player and MKP is not outplaying idra in that last game is delusional fanboyism and do not understand the game at all. Read the quote road and theres my answer, been said numerous times. Anyway I said I wasn't responding anymore cause I'm just wasting my time at this point. actually you were wasting your time from the start. Agreed. Zealots rape marauders so FUCKING HARD it's obscene, you have very limited game knowledge to believe otherwise, just contemplate Terran OP in your own home and save everyone time Never ends does it? Gonna leave the thread now because people keep quoting me when I alrdy said I'm not wasting my time argueing when no one is ever gonna change their opinions. Gonna go play some LoL now.
Yea, but playing LoL just shows the level of your judgment.
Online arguments: leave argument when you lose.
User was temp banned for this post.
|
On October 16 2011 11:06 Zalitara wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2011 11:04 Makica wrote:On October 16 2011 11:01 hitpoint wrote:On October 16 2011 10:58 Soulish wrote:On October 16 2011 10:56 hitpoint wrote:On October 16 2011 10:53 JoeSchmoe wrote:On October 16 2011 10:50 TazzDingo wrote:On October 16 2011 10:42 JohnnyBanana wrote:On October 16 2011 10:42 RogerChillingworth wrote:On October 16 2011 10:39 Shurayuki wrote:
[quote]
and then the other guy was better and won instead? Idra should have won it. But then Marineking outplayed Idra and won it instead. Today I learned: It's too hard for 90% on TL.net to understand that winning a match does not mean outplaying the opponent. Sheesh... First Huk-Hero, then IdrA-MKP... Unforced errors should not happen but they do happen sometimes. Has nothing to do with being outplayed... srsly guys. outplayed. simple as that. poor engagements by idra, no upgrades. these are fundamental mistakes. 2-0 mutas 2-1 lings vs 3-3 marines. I count 5 upgrades for idra, 6 for mkp. Yea HUGE difference. can't just add upgrades like that lol. Does 1/1 ling + 1/1 roach + 1/2 muta beat 3/3 marines? I agree. 3/3 marines completely rape anything with lower upgrades, and equal upgrades even. My point is that Idra was keeping up with upgrades, he just has to split them between units while mkp didn't. So I think mkp's upgrades were far better, but it wasn't for lack of idra upgrading - it's because marines are absurd. But he wasn't keeping up. You have to understand that 3-3 > 2-2 on all your units. Is that fair though? Doesn't it require so much more for a Zerg to get 3/3 on all the units he needs in on than it does for a Terran to get 3/3 on his marines?
Yea, they should redesign the game for all the races to be the same. In fact, just for you we'll seperate Protoss upgrades into ranged and melee, yup.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
