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Mr.Bitter, we need Elfi interview! I trust in you!
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Hey guys when do games start tomorrow? Can anyone link me a topic with shedule, cause nothing on calender..
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If elfi wins Jinro, there will be a 3 way tie? Jim > Jinro > Idra> Jim ?
Edit: Nevermind, map difference.
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On October 02 2011 16:18 Oktyabr wrote:
If elfi wins Jinro, there will be a 3 way tie? Jim > Jinro > Idra> Jim ?
Elfi already won against jinro, he went 3-0 with a 6-0 mapscore
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On October 02 2011 16:16 Jehct wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 16:15 Hierarch wrote:On October 02 2011 16:15 Jehct wrote:On October 02 2011 16:13 Hierarch wrote:On October 02 2011 16:12 Jehct wrote:On October 02 2011 16:11 Hierarch wrote:On October 02 2011 16:09 DiaBoLuS wrote:On October 02 2011 16:07 LittleAtari wrote:On October 02 2011 16:00 eNigma627 wrote:On October 02 2011 15:57 Rokevo wrote:
I'm happy IdrA advances, but he really needs to change his ZvP For the love of God, yes..... 1). Hydras should only be used against double stargate (not one) and should be stopped when Colossus come out 2). Stop engaging into forcefields and chokes... seriously, IdrA is awesome but he has some of the worst army-engagements of all time... and he continues to engage that way and lose armies. 3). Dat nexus.... kill it!!!! the colossus count was always low. Hydras destroy gateway units when supplemented with roach/ling. Idra would kill the colosi pretty quick leaving his roach-hydra to rofl-stomp the gateway units. The only things Idra did bad was where he chose to engage. The positions always favored the protoss, as idra engaged at the tight areas on the third. Still, idra had more than enough money and it was just a matter of time that he would wear him down. I actually think it's kind of crazy that Idra managed to pull off using Hydras as the core of his army by not over-reacting to the colosi and knowing that he could make corruptors to take of them. It's actually a little scary when you think about it the rpoblem is: even with 2 colossi and rest gateway roaches are way more cost effective then hydras vs that army. at some points he was maxed out on hydras almost engaging into a 2x2 choke vs forcefields... cmon... The 7 range np probably will still only matter when there are like 4+ collosi, since roach/ling buffers enough for 6-7 infesters to move up and nab the couple collosi. Without the collosi the protoss army folds like a cheap tent. Not with blink stalkers. 2 range won't change the kill radius a blink forward can do, the reason people didn't do it before was because the zerg fungals most of the time and blinking onto mass roach/ling is suicide since stalkers are made of paper when in actual combat. Yes it does, what are you talking about. Stalkers have 7 range; if the colossus is underneath stalkers, the stalkers can shoot the infestor. Even if you don't have blink now you can deny the neurals, it's ridiculous. Stalkers have 6 range Was a typo, already fixed.
I added more to my post, until people try the 7 range neural and fail miserably multiple times will it be fine to say the patch killed PvZ, there just hasn't been enough examples of it mattering yet.
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On October 02 2011 16:18 Oktyabr wrote:
If elfi wins Jinro, there will be a 3 way tie? Jim > Jinro > Idra> Jim ?
Elfi already beat Jinro 2:0. So Jinro, Idra and Jim all have 3 points, but afaik it's decided by mapscore. Idra should advance by having -1, while Jim and Jinro have -2 / -3.
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On October 02 2011 16:16 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 15:56 Omar91 wrote:On October 02 2011 15:45 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Protoss is a joke.
Anyway, ask SaSe, he will tell you Jim is really good too. I have no idea about PvZ, maybe he sucks at it, but hes good at PvP and PvT apparently. Yey let's blame it on balance ... I dont care if its balanced or not, I spent a year sucking vs protoss and no matter what I do or try I cant get better at this retarded matchup -- Even when I was doing good, I was NEVER good against protoss, even when I won MLG based off beating protoss players it was only because they had no idea how to counter point defense drones....
its quite funny to see a Terran complain(?) about TvP, cause its the other way round in like 99% of the cases.
And dont bring up SaSe, he may be good, but he is also a 'imba, qq' complainer :/
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Sweden33719 Posts
On October 02 2011 16:20 Zeon0 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 16:16 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On October 02 2011 15:56 Omar91 wrote:On October 02 2011 15:45 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Protoss is a joke.
Anyway, ask SaSe, he will tell you Jim is really good too. I have no idea about PvZ, maybe he sucks at it, but hes good at PvP and PvT apparently. Yey let's blame it on balance ... I dont care if its balanced or not, I spent a year sucking vs protoss and no matter what I do or try I cant get better at this retarded matchup -- Even when I was doing good, I was NEVER good against protoss, even when I won MLG based off beating protoss players it was only because they had no idea how to counter point defense drones.... its quite funny to see a Terran complain(?) about TvP, cause its the other way round in like 99% of the cases. And dont bring up SaSe, he may be good, but he is also a 'imba, qq' complainer :/
Hum, I brought up SaSe to say Jim is good, not to say anything about balance.
Although as far as he's told me, he thinks PvT is balacned and PvZ is broken (that was pre-patch tho).
Anyway, I think TvP looks imbalanced when other terrans play it, but I apparently dont have any TvP talent whatsoever, like not a single trait that makes me good at TvT, or OK at TvZ, seems to translate to TvP.
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On October 02 2011 16:15 Hierarch wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 16:15 Jehct wrote:On October 02 2011 16:13 Hierarch wrote:On October 02 2011 16:12 Jehct wrote:On October 02 2011 16:11 Hierarch wrote:On October 02 2011 16:09 DiaBoLuS wrote:On October 02 2011 16:07 LittleAtari wrote:On October 02 2011 16:00 eNigma627 wrote:On October 02 2011 15:57 Rokevo wrote:
I'm happy IdrA advances, but he really needs to change his ZvP For the love of God, yes..... 1). Hydras should only be used against double stargate (not one) and should be stopped when Colossus come out 2). Stop engaging into forcefields and chokes... seriously, IdrA is awesome but he has some of the worst army-engagements of all time... and he continues to engage that way and lose armies. 3). Dat nexus.... kill it!!!! the colossus count was always low. Hydras destroy gateway units when supplemented with roach/ling. Idra would kill the colosi pretty quick leaving his roach-hydra to rofl-stomp the gateway units. The only things Idra did bad was where he chose to engage. The positions always favored the protoss, as idra engaged at the tight areas on the third. Still, idra had more than enough money and it was just a matter of time that he would wear him down. I actually think it's kind of crazy that Idra managed to pull off using Hydras as the core of his army by not over-reacting to the colosi and knowing that he could make corruptors to take of them. It's actually a little scary when you think about it the rpoblem is: even with 2 colossi and rest gateway roaches are way more cost effective then hydras vs that army. at some points he was maxed out on hydras almost engaging into a 2x2 choke vs forcefields... cmon... The 7 range np probably will still only matter when there are like 4+ collosi, since roach/ling buffers enough for 6-7 infesters to move up and nab the couple collosi. Without the collosi the protoss army folds like a cheap tent. Not with blink stalkers. 2 range won't change the kill radius a blink forward can do, the reason people didn't do it before was because the zerg fungals most of the time and blinking onto mass roach/ling is suicide since stalkers are made of paper when in actual combat. Yes it does, what are you talking about. Stalkers have 7 range; if the colossus is underneath stalkers, the stalkers can shoot the infestor. Even if you don't have blink now you can deny the neurals, it's ridiculous. Stalkers have 6 range, which means they will still get fungaled and then implode under the wave of roach/ling since the collosi will be taken out of the battle for atleast 5-8 seconds which is enough to crush a protoss army.
How slow are the protoss players you're watching?
At the amateur level neuraling colossi is a lot easier than the micro involved to counter it, but that isn't imbalance. How easy something is has no relevance to how powerful/balanced it is.
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On October 02 2011 16:00 eNigma627 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 15:57 Rokevo wrote:
I'm happy IdrA advances, but he really needs to change his ZvP For the love of God, yes..... 1). Hydras should only be used against double stargate (not one) and should be stopped when Colossus come out 2). Stop engaging into forcefields and chokes... seriously, IdrA is awesome but he has some of the worst army-engagements of all time... and he continues to engage that way and lose armies.3). Dat nexus.... kill it!!!!
This is an excellent point, Idra has some REALLY bad army control/ engagements. If he fixed just this one thing, he would do SO much better. It's really funny, he has a large supply advantage 90% of the time versus Toss/ Terran due to his good macro, but engages so poorly that he basically loses the game after that.
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On October 02 2011 16:16 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 15:56 Omar91 wrote:On October 02 2011 15:45 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Protoss is a joke.
Anyway, ask SaSe, he will tell you Jim is really good too. I have no idea about PvZ, maybe he sucks at it, but hes good at PvP and PvT apparently. Yey let's blame it on balance ... I dont care if its balanced or not, I spent a year sucking vs protoss and no matter what I do or try I cant get better at this retarded matchup -- Even when I was doing good, I was NEVER good against protoss, even when I won MLG based off beating protoss players it was only because they had no idea how to counter point defense drones....
Korean Terrans can, you can't. Hell yes they own Protosses so damn hard.
That's your problem. Not the MU.
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On October 02 2011 16:20 Zeon0 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 16:16 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On October 02 2011 15:56 Omar91 wrote:On October 02 2011 15:45 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Protoss is a joke.
Anyway, ask SaSe, he will tell you Jim is really good too. I have no idea about PvZ, maybe he sucks at it, but hes good at PvP and PvT apparently. Yey let's blame it on balance ... I dont care if its balanced or not, I spent a year sucking vs protoss and no matter what I do or try I cant get better at this retarded matchup -- Even when I was doing good, I was NEVER good against protoss, even when I won MLG based off beating protoss players it was only because they had no idea how to counter point defense drones.... its quite funny to see a Terran complain(?) about TvP, cause its the other way round in like 99% of the cases. And dont bring up SaSe, he may be good, but he is also a 'imba, qq' complainer :/
Yeah, but he has some reason to be mad, I mean his tvp has been his weakest for a while now. Even though other terrans are doing well he seems to always have a lot of trouble with this mu. Oh well, I hope he gets it up there.
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Roach based army has always been the most effective unit composition among top ZvPers like nestea and losira. IM zergs usually do a 2 base or 3 base push to deal damage. The difference between them and other zergs is that they have better grasp on their drone timings and the timing to deal maximum damage based on opponent's build. It's not like the patch will nerf top-tier zergs' win rates completely, but it make the matchup less dynamic from the zerg's position. Protoss are definitely in a much better shape than before since they have learnt how to pin zerg into their base to buy time by using warp prisms now. I believe zergs will start to go more for 2 base all-ins in a boX, it's rather unfavorable and predictable for zerg now to just play macro-based and with the same unit composition every game.
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Discuss the current game 
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Are the results wrong on the OP or is the stream way behind?
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Overall I want Strelok to win but on the other hand iaguz has quite nice hair & beard :D
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On October 02 2011 16:21 Jehct wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 16:15 Hierarch wrote:On October 02 2011 16:15 Jehct wrote:On October 02 2011 16:13 Hierarch wrote:On October 02 2011 16:12 Jehct wrote:On October 02 2011 16:11 Hierarch wrote:On October 02 2011 16:09 DiaBoLuS wrote:On October 02 2011 16:07 LittleAtari wrote:On October 02 2011 16:00 eNigma627 wrote:On October 02 2011 15:57 Rokevo wrote:
I'm happy IdrA advances, but he really needs to change his ZvP For the love of God, yes..... 1). Hydras should only be used against double stargate (not one) and should be stopped when Colossus come out 2). Stop engaging into forcefields and chokes... seriously, IdrA is awesome but he has some of the worst army-engagements of all time... and he continues to engage that way and lose armies. 3). Dat nexus.... kill it!!!! the colossus count was always low. Hydras destroy gateway units when supplemented with roach/ling. Idra would kill the colosi pretty quick leaving his roach-hydra to rofl-stomp the gateway units. The only things Idra did bad was where he chose to engage. The positions always favored the protoss, as idra engaged at the tight areas on the third. Still, idra had more than enough money and it was just a matter of time that he would wear him down. I actually think it's kind of crazy that Idra managed to pull off using Hydras as the core of his army by not over-reacting to the colosi and knowing that he could make corruptors to take of them. It's actually a little scary when you think about it the rpoblem is: even with 2 colossi and rest gateway roaches are way more cost effective then hydras vs that army. at some points he was maxed out on hydras almost engaging into a 2x2 choke vs forcefields... cmon... The 7 range np probably will still only matter when there are like 4+ collosi, since roach/ling buffers enough for 6-7 infesters to move up and nab the couple collosi. Without the collosi the protoss army folds like a cheap tent. Not with blink stalkers. 2 range won't change the kill radius a blink forward can do, the reason people didn't do it before was because the zerg fungals most of the time and blinking onto mass roach/ling is suicide since stalkers are made of paper when in actual combat. Yes it does, what are you talking about. Stalkers have 7 range; if the colossus is underneath stalkers, the stalkers can shoot the infestor. Even if you don't have blink now you can deny the neurals, it's ridiculous. Stalkers have 6 range, which means they will still get fungaled and then implode under the wave of roach/ling since the collosi will be taken out of the battle for atleast 5-8 seconds which is enough to crush a protoss army. How slow are the protoss players you're watching? At the amateur level neuraling colossi is a lot easier than the micro involved to counter it, but that isn't imbalance. How easy something is has no relevance to how powerful/balanced it is.
How slow are the zergs you're watching? I'm talking about scenarios i've seen in pro matches, I've yet to see one protoss player offensive blink to kill infesters in a major confrontation, to be fair most protoss die before that happens anyway to a multitude of things, ie: DRG vs Yonghwa where he died to ling/infested terran/roach
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Kingiaguz = King of laguz? Fire Emblem reference?
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On October 02 2011 16:16 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
I dont care if its balanced or not, I spent a year sucking vs protoss and no matter what I do or try I cant get better at this retarded matchup -- Even when I was doing good, I was NEVER good against protoss, even when I won MLG based off beating protoss players it was only because they had no idea how to counter point defense drones....
Jinro is right. The balance already favored Protoss before patch 1.4 but after 1.4, the balance is lopsided for Protoss. Many of you players will never play at the level that Jinro plays so you should respect Jinro's opinion on this issue of balance.
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On October 02 2011 16:23 John Madden wrote:Discuss the current game
It's a TvT between a top European terran and a top SEA terran. If Iaguz can take this I'd be shocked (especially since I'm pretty sure he isn't a full-time progamer).
He looks much better this game, though.
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EPT
