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I can't believe idra is advancing. Awesome.
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On October 02 2011 16:21 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 16:20 Zeon0 wrote:On October 02 2011 16:16 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On October 02 2011 15:56 Omar91 wrote:On October 02 2011 15:45 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Protoss is a joke.
Anyway, ask SaSe, he will tell you Jim is really good too. I have no idea about PvZ, maybe he sucks at it, but hes good at PvP and PvT apparently. Yey let's blame it on balance ... I dont care if its balanced or not, I spent a year sucking vs protoss and no matter what I do or try I cant get better at this retarded matchup -- Even when I was doing good, I was NEVER good against protoss, even when I won MLG based off beating protoss players it was only because they had no idea how to counter point defense drones.... its quite funny to see a Terran complain(?) about TvP, cause its the other way round in like 99% of the cases. And dont bring up SaSe, he may be good, but he is also a 'imba, qq' complainer :/ Hum, I brought up SaSe to say Jim is good, not to say anything about balance. Although as far as he's told me, he thinks PvT is balacned and PvZ is broken (that was pre-patch tho). Anyway, I think TvP looks imbalanced when other terrans play it, but I apparently dont have any TvP talent whatsoever, like not a single trait that makes me good at TvT, or OK at TvZ, seems to translate to TvP.
maybe it's because u like brotoss and need to switch? 
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On October 02 2011 16:25 bankin wrote:
Kingiaguz = King of laguz? Fire Emblem reference?
King is sponsor of his team Xeria and Iaguz is his last name backwards.
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Russian Federation202 Posts
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On October 02 2011 16:25 bankin wrote:
Kingiaguz = King of laguz? Fire Emblem reference?
King is just part of the clan-tag. Iaguz is his name backwards.
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On October 02 2011 16:23 John Madden wrote:Discuss the current game 
Nothing to discuss...
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On October 02 2011 16:25 Hierarch wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 16:21 Jehct wrote:On October 02 2011 16:15 Hierarch wrote:On October 02 2011 16:15 Jehct wrote:On October 02 2011 16:13 Hierarch wrote:On October 02 2011 16:12 Jehct wrote:On October 02 2011 16:11 Hierarch wrote:On October 02 2011 16:09 DiaBoLuS wrote:On October 02 2011 16:07 LittleAtari wrote:On October 02 2011 16:00 eNigma627 wrote:
[quote]
For the love of God, yes.....
1). Hydras should only be used against double stargate (not one) and should be stopped when Colossus come out
2). Stop engaging into forcefields and chokes... seriously, IdrA is awesome but he has some of the worst army-engagements of all time... and he continues to engage that way and lose armies.
3). Dat nexus.... kill it!!!!
the colossus count was always low. Hydras destroy gateway units when supplemented with roach/ling. Idra would kill the colosi pretty quick leaving his roach-hydra to rofl-stomp the gateway units. The only things Idra did bad was where he chose to engage. The positions always favored the protoss, as idra engaged at the tight areas on the third. Still, idra had more than enough money and it was just a matter of time that he would wear him down. I actually think it's kind of crazy that Idra managed to pull off using Hydras as the core of his army by not over-reacting to the colosi and knowing that he could make corruptors to take of them. It's actually a little scary when you think about it the rpoblem is: even with 2 colossi and rest gateway roaches are way more cost effective then hydras vs that army. at some points he was maxed out on hydras almost engaging into a 2x2 choke vs forcefields... cmon... The 7 range np probably will still only matter when there are like 4+ collosi, since roach/ling buffers enough for 6-7 infesters to move up and nab the couple collosi. Without the collosi the protoss army folds like a cheap tent. Not with blink stalkers. 2 range won't change the kill radius a blink forward can do, the reason people didn't do it before was because the zerg fungals most of the time and blinking onto mass roach/ling is suicide since stalkers are made of paper when in actual combat. Yes it does, what are you talking about. Stalkers have 7 range; if the colossus is underneath stalkers, the stalkers can shoot the infestor. Even if you don't have blink now you can deny the neurals, it's ridiculous. Stalkers have 6 range, which means they will still get fungaled and then implode under the wave of roach/ling since the collosi will be taken out of the battle for atleast 5-8 seconds which is enough to crush a protoss army. How slow are the protoss players you're watching? At the amateur level neuraling colossi is a lot easier than the micro involved to counter it, but that isn't imbalance. How easy something is has no relevance to how powerful/balanced it is. How slow are the zergs you're watching? I'm talking about scenarios i've seen in pro matches, I've yet to see one protoss player offensive blink to kill infesters in a major confrontation, to be fair most protoss die before that happens anyway to a multitude of things, ie: DRG vs Yonghwa where he died to ling/infested terran/roach
There hasn't been a PvZ in the GSL since the patch where colossi have been neuraled, has there? From what I've been watching, the protoss either all-ins or the zerg hits a timing with infestors. Doesn't show the impact of the change at all.
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i do respect Jinros opinion, but i do also respect facts. And Protoss got manhandled by Terrans prepatch, saying it was favored for Protoss is just wrong imho.
And I dont think Jinro ever said P>T, he is just saying his T<P
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Heeeey, Iaguszasdsaf lookin pretty good this game! Nice to see him do well. Gotta love rooting for the underdog/unknown. Plus this is his only game getting casted lol.
Edit: And then just like that it sways back the other way and Strelok takes it lol
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On October 02 2011 16:27 Jehct wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 16:25 Hierarch wrote:On October 02 2011 16:21 Jehct wrote:On October 02 2011 16:15 Hierarch wrote:On October 02 2011 16:15 Jehct wrote:On October 02 2011 16:13 Hierarch wrote:On October 02 2011 16:12 Jehct wrote:On October 02 2011 16:11 Hierarch wrote:On October 02 2011 16:09 DiaBoLuS wrote:On October 02 2011 16:07 LittleAtari wrote:
[quote]
the colossus count was always low. Hydras destroy gateway units when supplemented with roach/ling. Idra would kill the colosi pretty quick leaving his roach-hydra to rofl-stomp the gateway units. The only things Idra did bad was where he chose to engage. The positions always favored the protoss, as idra engaged at the tight areas on the third. Still, idra had more than enough money and it was just a matter of time that he would wear him down.
I actually think it's kind of crazy that Idra managed to pull off using Hydras as the core of his army by not over-reacting to the colosi and knowing that he could make corruptors to take of them. It's actually a little scary when you think about it the rpoblem is: even with 2 colossi and rest gateway roaches are way more cost effective then hydras vs that army. at some points he was maxed out on hydras almost engaging into a 2x2 choke vs forcefields... cmon... The 7 range np probably will still only matter when there are like 4+ collosi, since roach/ling buffers enough for 6-7 infesters to move up and nab the couple collosi. Without the collosi the protoss army folds like a cheap tent. Not with blink stalkers. 2 range won't change the kill radius a blink forward can do, the reason people didn't do it before was because the zerg fungals most of the time and blinking onto mass roach/ling is suicide since stalkers are made of paper when in actual combat. Yes it does, what are you talking about. Stalkers have 7 range; if the colossus is underneath stalkers, the stalkers can shoot the infestor. Even if you don't have blink now you can deny the neurals, it's ridiculous. Stalkers have 6 range, which means they will still get fungaled and then implode under the wave of roach/ling since the collosi will be taken out of the battle for atleast 5-8 seconds which is enough to crush a protoss army. How slow are the protoss players you're watching? At the amateur level neuraling colossi is a lot easier than the micro involved to counter it, but that isn't imbalance. How easy something is has no relevance to how powerful/balanced it is. How slow are the zergs you're watching? I'm talking about scenarios i've seen in pro matches, I've yet to see one protoss player offensive blink to kill infesters in a major confrontation, to be fair most protoss die before that happens anyway to a multitude of things, ie: DRG vs Yonghwa where he died to ling/infested terran/roach There hasn't been a PvZ in the GSL since the patch where colossi have been neuraled, has there? From what I've been watching, the protoss either all-ins or the zerg hits a timing with infestors. Doesn't show the impact of the change at all.
Which was my point all along, it's stupid to say the matchup has been broken by the patch when there's no evidence to support that statement.
The 2 tanks shooting hellions for Strelok definitely didn't help him in that engagement.
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No one responded to me, but I guess the OP results are wrong in some places.
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On October 02 2011 16:25 StarcraftMan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 16:16 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
I dont care if its balanced or not, I spent a year sucking vs protoss and no matter what I do or try I cant get better at this retarded matchup -- Even when I was doing good, I was NEVER good against protoss, even when I won MLG based off beating protoss players it was only because they had no idea how to counter point defense drones.... Jinro is right. The balance already favored Protoss before patch 1.4 but after 1.4, the balance is lopsided for Protoss. Many of you players will never play at the level that Jinro plays so you should respect Jinro's opinion on this issue of balance.
LOLLL,,, how did it favor protoss before patch 1.4 where terrans in the gsl were winning 80% of the time with the 1/1/1 strat or something similiar??? you have no clue what you're saying and Jinro wasn't saying anything about that either.
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Iaguz with a terrible engagement there =/
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
FINALLY. The stream is working, and now its basically over.
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On October 02 2011 16:29 Hierarch wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 16:27 Jehct wrote:On October 02 2011 16:25 Hierarch wrote:On October 02 2011 16:21 Jehct wrote:On October 02 2011 16:15 Hierarch wrote:On October 02 2011 16:15 Jehct wrote:On October 02 2011 16:13 Hierarch wrote:On October 02 2011 16:12 Jehct wrote:On October 02 2011 16:11 Hierarch wrote:On October 02 2011 16:09 DiaBoLuS wrote:
[quote]
the rpoblem is: even with 2 colossi and rest gateway roaches are way more cost effective then hydras vs that army. at some points he was maxed out on hydras almost engaging into a 2x2 choke vs forcefields... cmon... The 7 range np probably will still only matter when there are like 4+ collosi, since roach/ling buffers enough for 6-7 infesters to move up and nab the couple collosi. Without the collosi the protoss army folds like a cheap tent. Not with blink stalkers. 2 range won't change the kill radius a blink forward can do, the reason people didn't do it before was because the zerg fungals most of the time and blinking onto mass roach/ling is suicide since stalkers are made of paper when in actual combat. Yes it does, what are you talking about. Stalkers have 7 range; if the colossus is underneath stalkers, the stalkers can shoot the infestor. Even if you don't have blink now you can deny the neurals, it's ridiculous. Stalkers have 6 range, which means they will still get fungaled and then implode under the wave of roach/ling since the collosi will be taken out of the battle for atleast 5-8 seconds which is enough to crush a protoss army. How slow are the protoss players you're watching? At the amateur level neuraling colossi is a lot easier than the micro involved to counter it, but that isn't imbalance. How easy something is has no relevance to how powerful/balanced it is. How slow are the zergs you're watching? I'm talking about scenarios i've seen in pro matches, I've yet to see one protoss player offensive blink to kill infesters in a major confrontation, to be fair most protoss die before that happens anyway to a multitude of things, ie: DRG vs Yonghwa where he died to ling/infested terran/roach There hasn't been a PvZ in the GSL since the patch where colossi have been neuraled, has there? From what I've been watching, the protoss either all-ins or the zerg hits a timing with infestors. Doesn't show the impact of the change at all. Which was my point all along, it's stupid to say the matchup has been broken by the patch when there's no evidence to support that statement. The 2 tanks shooting hellions for Strelok definitely didn't help him in that engagement.
I don't think the matchup is broken at all (and I didn't say so). I was explaining why the macro games we've seen in IEM look like they were played 6 months ago (with better expansion & drone timings from the zerg).
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United Kingdom38257 Posts
aw was hoping iaguz would at least pick up a map for SEA.
Both he and Pig gave a good account of themselves in a couple of games, certainly some positive things for them both to take forwards from this event.
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GG IAGUZ
No shame loosing to Strelok, hes really good. It looked good for u there for a second
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that was a horrible engagement, he just amoved all his tanks into sieged tanks and didnt bother even siege his tanks....
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Iaguz and PiG fighting! Doing SEA proud
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EPT
